Pearson 303

[David Cheslow]

My wife and I are seriously considering upgrading from our P26 to a 303. We sail out of Red Bank, NJ. We day sail, do a little club racing, and cruise for about a month every summer on Long Island Sound.

Any thoughts?

Dave and Marilyn Cheslow

Sent from my iPhone

[Law Firm]

I am going out on a limb here, and probably sticking my nose where it doesn't belong, but have you considered on of the 10m boats. They are dirt cheap, built like a tank, go to weather in a gale beautifully, and the only negative is the 6 feet of draft. A number were made, but they came down in price, maybe because most of the world doesn't know how big 10 meters is. Great boats, stable and fast. Just an observation

Mike G (yes, I have owned one for 39 years, but no, it isn't for sale). 

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[David Cheslow]

Thanks Mike, I forgot to mention that there are lots of shallow areas in the Navesink river.  6' of draft is out of the question.

Sent from my iPhone

[Law Firm]

Got it thanks. I believe you, but I continue to be amazed at how few takers there are for a 10m. 

Mike

[Diane-public]

Well, move up to Raritan bay.  We've got lots of boats w 5' and 6' drafts in keyport. And no bridges.

...diane

[Bill Robart]

This will likely offend some of the folks that own Pearson's with the 3 digit numbers after the "P".  The P26 sails up to it's rating easily and the three digit models likely will not.  The 26 is faster boat for boat than the 323 so I have to assume the 303 is also slower than the 26. I've raced a 10M and find it much harder the steer well than my P-33-1 as the 10M steers with relatively little feel (my guess is that the rudder is over balanced to make the helm light).  The 33 on the other hand has a very heavy helm if you don't reef early (totally unbalanced rudder being the cause).

The 10M is is designed to cruise/race while the 303 is primarily a cruiser. If cruising is your goal the 303 would do just fine but your occasional race will likely be disappointing compared to the 26.

If what you're looking for is just a bit more space and you find the fit and finish of the 26 acceptable then the P-30 would be worth a look.  Sails pretty much like the 26 but has more space inside and there are plenty around. The 33-1 has 4 foot draft with the board up and 7'-7" with it down. Races sucessfully and they are relatively cheap. I loved mine.

Bill

[Dave Cole]

I really don't get keel depth discussions in general.

 

I've had to face channel depth issues at my old marina on Lake Erie but that was one particular situation for one particular poorly maintained channel.

 

How can you buy a sailboat and differentiate between say 4'-4" keel draft on a Pearson 303 and a 5'-11" draft on the 10M, in a major waterway, when the difference is only a foot and a half??  

 

If the water is that skinny, isn't a 4'-4" draft also a problem? 

 

And how do you handle tides??

 

I've heard similar discussions about the Bahamas.  

 

Dave 

 

 

 

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From: pearso...@googlegroups.com [mailto:pearso...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Diane-public
Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2014 10:05 PM
To: pearso...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [pearson ] Pearson 303

---

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[d...@pfeiffer.net]

The 10M and 33-1 have basically the same rudder configuration - skeg hung.  Neither is balanced in the conventionally understood sense (some portion of the rudder forward of the rotation axis - about 20% for the P26).   They generate lift for steering in a similar fashion to the rudder or elevator on an airplane tail by changing shape rather than changing angle of attack (like the elevator on a supersonic aircraft actually).  I would not expect the 10M to have less rudder "feel" that the 33-1 (though I wouldn't claim to be sensitive enough to say).  Perhaps the difference you noticed had to so with the wheel on the 10M vs your superior (for feel) tiller on the 33-1.   The 10M has a much deeper fin keel than the 33-1 with a significantly higher aspect ratio.  I would expect the 10M to easily out-point the 33-1 (all other factors being equal - e.g. sails, condition, crew).  

The 30 is more like the P26 than the 303 but you will find it a tad tender in comparison.  The 303 is likely more stiff than the 30.  All that does not mean the 30 is slower.  It is certainly the fastest of the three and best pointing.  The 303 will have the more comfortable interior.    A better blend of both performance and comfort to me would be the 31-2 or the P32 (31-1 too if you don't mind the fractional rig).  The 32 is somewhat rare and the 31-1 will be pricier.  But maybe in line with 303 prices?  

Dan Pfeiffer

[The Graham Law Firm]

Thank you Dan, this makes sense.  I am one of the very few with a tiller 10M, and it has the greatest feel going to weather I can imagine.  I can drive the boat to weather by feel with my eyes shut (of course, some say that snake wake is because I do have my eyes shut).  I am sure it is rig tuning, but it will go perfectly to weather without touching the tiller on port tack (I think it is port tack) but not on starboard tack.  great feel, and with a little roll in the jib and a double reef main, it absolutely loves 30 - 34 knots apparent to windward.  About the time other people start leaving the beneteaus and catalinas of the world in their slips.  But then, it is like your kids, after owning the same  boat for 39 years, I admit to partiality.  

Have considered getting an identical hull with wheel and diesel, and transferring a lot of stuff, but the list has convinced me to quit obsessing about an engine that has never given me a moment’s problem (the A-4) and that I only want a wheel because I want self steering.  I bought a tiller pilot 3000 and then resold it because it was too complex to figure out how to set all of the bases I was going to need to add.  

Hull needs new awl grip (flag blue).  And deck needs new deck paint (previously sanded off all factory non-skid and painted with deck paint and non-slip additive.  Thinking it might be a great boat to keep on a mooring down in the bahamas.  (Where 6 feet versus 4.5 makes about 6 hours a day difference in when you can get in and out of certain harbors - playing the tides).  But I can live with that rather than buying another boat.  

Mike 

And this was when first back in slip, the lines are not run true yet.  

[Guy Johnson]

you could add a below deck autopilot, the install would be complex and expensive but the result would be welcome. 

Or I suppose you could hire someone with experience to install the tiller pilot. Autopilots are a great convenience. 

Guy

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From: mgr...@thegrahamlawfirm.com

Subject: Re: [pearson ] Pearson 303

Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2014 08:19:44 -0400
To: pearso...@googlegroups.com

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Michael L. Graham

The Graham Law Firm, PC

100 Highland Park Village, Suite 200

Dallas, TX  75205

214-599-7000

214-599-7010 (fax)

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[Guy Johnson]

Skeg hung barn door, plenty of feeling. 

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Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2014 22:29:32 -0400

Subject: Re: [pearson ] Pearson 303

From: wro...@gmail.com
To: pearso...@googlegroups.com

[Michael Graham]

I would love the below deck, tiller boats do not have the exposed rudder stock, tube goes all way to cockpit floor. Very hesitant to pull everything and cut that tube. In old days, Graham Bryan would have been happy to help me, but alas, he cannot now. 

Mike 

Michael L. Graham

The Graham Law Firm, PC

100 Highland Park Village

Suite 200

Dallas, TX  75205

214-599-7000

mgr...@thegrahamlawfirm.com

www.thegrahamlawfirm.com

[d...@pfeiffer.net]

>> A better blend of both performance and comfort to me would be 
>> the 31-2 or the P32 (31-1 too if you don't mind the fractional rig).  
>> The 32 is somewhat rare and the 31-1 will be pricier.  But maybe in 
>> line with 303 prices?  

 

 

Oops.   That should say the 31-2 will be pricier, not the 31-1.  The 31-1 will be in line with the 32.  Basically the same boat.  They took the 31-1, re-worked the transom and changed it to a masthead rig.  I think only 113 P32's were built.  Probably less 31-1 but I have never found a number for that.  

 

Dan Pfeiffer

--

[Robert Franklin]

May I add, that I enjoyed the comments on this thread and see many points about the 10M (P26 & P30) too that remind me of my P36-1.  I am sure George will affirm in many ways and might have more to add.  The P36-1 has not enjoyed a great deal of understanding.  This may be because a limited number 103 were produced.  I like to think that is because it did not reach the correct price point for Pearson, meaning you were being sold too much boat for the price.  Of course ownership over 1980 to date with a break in between, might account for this mythology.

I returned a week ago from a remarkable sail from P-town to Boston, averaging 6 + knots and surfing down small waives to hit 8.2 at one point.  We covered the 42 NM in 7 hours (Long Point to Nixes' Mate).

With steady 15 and some stronger gusts the boat did develop weather helm, no surprisingly.  After taking a single reef in the main with the 120 Jib, things were much more tame.  I get to do very little sailing in the summer (none otherwise), but this 7 hours will sustain my enthusiasm until next July, when I will launch again.  Boat is coming out tomorrow because I have to go to Seattle and would be anxious about it being in the water with me on the other side of the country.  Also, contrary to most, I enjoy a concentrated sailing season, even without doing it, that covers July and August, only.  Strange maybe, but I have reasons.  The boat is a responsibility at all times and limiting that responsibility is part of the pleasure of ownership.

I think of the P36-1 as a slightly scaled up version of the very capable and popular 10M.  But, repeating a conversation I had with Bill Shaw, the designer, in 1982, would be relevant.  Noting the similarities in interior layout, cabin sheer etc., I suggested the similarity to him.  He may not have heard me or was distracted, but I distinctly recalling Mr. Shaw recoiling at the suggestion from such an amateur as me.  He responded by saying that the boats were nothing alike.

I guess if you look at the under body config, there are notable differences, but they both float, so his response may have been a little harsh.

I have enjoyed my boat a lot and the romance is more than rational.  However, there is one more boat I lust after, but will never own, for lots of good reasons, deeper draft than I now have is probably the most compelling among them. 

Swan 42 (circa 1969).  Have you seen one? Small cabin, flush foredeck.  Sailing in from P-Town, a beauty passed me - easily - with a Hingham hailing port.

10Ms.  Very popular.  Exactly the right size in my opinion.  Midway between the P30, which is a bit Spartan and the P36-1 which is a bit indulgent.
 

If I had it to do over again, the 10M would be my choice.  I would miss the extra set of drawers and the hanging locker in the forward cabin, but not so much.  Sailing lean is the answer to both over crowding and having too much stuff aboard.

Almost anything Pearson in the 31 -33 foot range from the 1970s would be a good choice.  Its just that the 10m is the best among them.

RMF

Robert M. Franklin, Esq.
145 Lagrange Street
Chestnut Hill, MA 02467-3047

617 277 5900 Cell
617 277 5901 Fax

email:  robertm...@gmail.com

[The Graham Law Firm]

RMF.  

You bring a smile to my face.  I have the exact same belief, in reverse.  

After seeing the P 36 “Sun Dog” on the cover of Good Old Boat several years ago, and the interior shots, I thought the 10M had been drawn from the lines of the P36.  I think the P36 was introduced a year earlier than the 10M, but I could be wrong.  My 10M was the one Bill Shaw and a then little known sail maker by the name of John Kolius, who was at that time cutting sails for Butch Ulmer, were on in 20 knots of wind on Galveston Bay (Texas).  Suddenly we all noticed the port shroud deck fitting was moving up and down about an inch in gusts.  John was showing Bill a new main he had cut for my 10M at the time.  The Port chainplate anchor “hat” had come loose from the hull.  

Bill Shaw was embarrassed enough at the port chainplate failure (a potential problem on 10Ms through hull 100) that he had an entire factory crew fly to Texas the next Monday, disassemble the boat, and build new chainplate hats.  Graham Bryan once said they were the best he had seen.  It was my only time to be around Bill Shaw, although John Kolius was from Houston Yacht Club, I still see his sister from time to time, and on rare occasions when he isn’t racing or cruising the Bahamas in his Hatteras 70 (or whatever it is) I run into John.  

So I have patient #1 on the port chainplate problem, but it has been 38 years, and a lot of offshore work, storms, etc, with no further problems.  I believe you could lift the boat from that chainplate.  

Love the 10M.  I am actually a partner in an Island Packet 44 with a friend, who is negotiating to move us up to an IP485 (not my idea, but good boat partners always say yes) but in many ways the 10M is preferable.  On the IP I manage the systems.  On the 10M, I go to weather like crazy.  Of course, crazy may be what I am.  

BTW, my wife just sighs, and says “Its a sickness, you know.”  This was when I wanted to buy a Camano trawler that had only been under water for less than 24 hours in fresh water.  I could have bought it for 15k.  The engine still ran.  In fairness to her, I already had two boats in the yard getting restoration.  

Hope my picture post of the Bali Hai, my 10M that does need paint, made it to the list.  I am particularly proud of the mid boom traveler, mounted coach top, on a shaeffer traveler system.  

Just wish I could get Graham Bryan to help me redo the rudder tube so I could install under deck auto pilot.  Then I could tilt up the tiller and have the whole cockpit.  

[Dave Cole]

I see the picture.   Great looking 10M! 

 

That is a really nice slip!!

 

Dave

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From: pearso...@googlegroups.com [mailto:pearso...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of The Graham Law Firm
Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2014 12:12 PM
To: pearso...@googlegroups.com

[Robert Franklin]

Same experience with Pearson.  My boat was 10 years old (2 years mine), when there was a vague report of a P36 having a keel to hull attachment problem, somewhere off shore.  I never did get the details, or if I did I forgot them.

I called Pearson; more out of curiosity, than concern.  My boat was then in Marion, Barden's Boatyard.  Pearson sent a crew of three led by Lionel Texiera. I recall his name even thought it is 32 years ago.  They worked 3 days grinding the joint and re-glassing.  I am not sure it was needed, but they must have thought so.  I can look at that joint today and not see a sliver of separation.

Recently, I tried to locate Lionel.  Again, curiosity got the best of me.  But no luck.  He was a young man then.  So was I.  I wanted to thank him again because his work then permits me to maintain confidence in my boat, now.  He might be somewhere.  Then again, he might be nowhere.

Pearson was a solid company with a lot of integrity.  I hate to think those qualities helped its demise.  Probably not.  The market and the industry changed radically and it might have been hard with the kind of boats they built to follow along.

Charge for the work on a 10 year old boat - $0.00.

RMF

[steve_hayes_maine]

As the owner of a P323 (#63, 1977), I'm not insulted at all.  I had a choice of a P-30 and a P-323 and chose the latter because it offered more creature comforts for my family.  What I lost was speed and easier maintenance, because I really think that Pearson attempted to cram the amenities of a far larger boat into its hull, making it very hard to work on the engine and everything else.  While it will do 6 knots in a stiff breeze, generally the only boats it passes are coming from the opposite direction.  Definitely NOT a racer, but neither is it tender (motionComfort = 30.66).

As for depth of the keel, it's 4.5 feet but heavy (4,500 lbs, 12,800 displacement).  As far as I can tell, the primary difference between shallower and deeper keels it the ability to point into the wind (deeper getting a better grip on the water).

Steve Hayes

s/v Redeemed

P 323 #63

Readfield, Main

[Libations Too]

As another 323 owner I want to add my perspective. I think you would be quite happy with the 303, especially if cruising for a month is an important part of how you enjoy your boat.

 I’ve owned my 323 for nearly 10 years and looked seriously at and sailed on a 303 before buying my 323. Neither boat was designed as a racer. The 323 was designed as a coastal cruiser and I think it satisfies that objective quite nicely; I tend to think of the 303 as a smaller version of the 323. The sail area-to-displacement ratio is slightly higher on the 303, which gives it a little bit of an edge in lighter air. The 303 is slightly beamier than the 323 but the chain plates for the shrouds on the 303 are inboard of the toe rail while on the 323 the chain plates are essentially at the toe rail; I believe that the net result is that the 303 has tighter sheeting angles for the jib and thus better upwind performance than the 323. Both are shoal draft and reefing early to limit heel can add to both VMG speed and comfort.

 But the bottom line is that neither the 303 nor the 323 was designed as a racer and, to be fair, we should not measure them with the “racer” measuring stick. I have raced my 323 and while perhaps not the perfect beer can racer, she does excel in certain conditions and in certain ways. And that, I believe, is the best way to look at any boat: what does it do well, and what does it give up in trade.

 The 323 (and by extension the 303) are excellent boats for cruising. I actually like the cabin layout of the 303 better than the 323 but the 323 has more cruising amenities (propane tank lockers, propane stove and oven, loads of storage space in the cockpit lockers, etc.). Both boats handle a strong breeze quite well and offer the stability that makes ocean sailing a real possibility. In strong winds I have had good success in longer races within San Francisco Bay and I have sailed my 323 to southern California and back twice…both times single-handed.

 I have not sailed on a P26 but a quick look at the design parameters suggests a very different boat than either the 303 or 323: half the displacement of a 303, 2 feet less beam than the 303, etc. If you are ready to move up to a bigger boat I think that the 303 is worth a look.

[David Sneade]

My wife and I have owned a P303 since buying it new in 1984. We have spent as much as two weeks at a time on board for just us and up to ten days at a time with our grandchildren. We have looked at other boats over the last 30 years, but nothing really suited our needs like the P303. It is a good, solid boat that cruises well. As an aside, a few years back, we took first place on points for the year in the weekly buoy races in the non-spinnaker class; so with luck and local knowledge you can win occasionally! Good luck in your search.

David Sneade

P303 #116 - Redondo Beach, CA

[Guy Johnson]

We've owned our 1973 10M since 1986, I was lucky and had good advice on the boat. The first boat was / is a keeper.

I've gone to the boat shows and sailed on many other boats there are very few other boats I would trade Puffin for. Then if you consider the relative prices of the other boats it's pretty easy to understand why I'm a happy 28 year owner of a 41 year old Pearson.

Some of the other boats I'd consider Hinckley pilot 35 or Bermuda 40, Sabre 34, 36.

Guy

Sent from my iPad

--

[Michael Graham]

Guy, remind me what hull number Puffin is?  Bali Ha'i is hull 14.  I have always through of her as a 1974, because that is when she was sold as new, but my memory is that her serial number has 73 in it. 

Mike

--

Michael L. Graham
The Graham Law Firm, PC
100 Highland Park Village, Suite 200
Dallas, TX  75205

214-599-7000
214-599-7010 (fax)

mgr...@thegrahamlawfirm.com
www.thegrahamlawfirm.com

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE

The information in this e-mail message is legally privileged and confidential.  It is intended only for the use of the individual(s) named as recipients.  Unless you are named as a recipient of this e-mail, you should not read, distribute or otherwise use this e-mail.  Also, please immediately notify the sender by reply email or by calling 214-599-7000.  Thank you. 

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To ensure compliance with requirements imposed by the IRS, we inform you that any tax advice contained in this communication (including any

attachments) was not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used, for the purpose of (i) avoiding tax-related penalties under federal, state or local tax law or (ii) promoting, marketing or recommending to another party any transaction or matter addressed herein.  

                                 

[Guy Johnson]

Puffin is hull #6

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Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2014 19:17:21 -0500
Subject: Re: [pearson ] Re: Pearson 303
From: mgr...@thegrahamlawfirm.com
To: pearso...@googlegroups.com

[SteveA]

Robert,
i've sailed on a friends 69 43' sparkman stephens swan a number of times. it is in perfect condition and an amazing boat to sail. last year we took it  up the coast to maine....nonstop.
very nice boat but alas..too much boat for me.