10 M Windlass?

[Scott Q]

Has anyone installed a windlass on a 10 M? If so where exactly did you position it? Did you have issue with the size of the chain locker? Also where did you mount the bow roller? Thx

[George DuBose]

Skylark had a heavy gauge Windline anchor roller installed between the
forestay chainplate and the starboard skeen chock.

There is a hard spot of 3/4" plywood on the centerline from the bow to
the beginning of the cabin top. It can been "seen" from inside the
anchor rode locker forward of the V-berth.

Skylark's anchor rode is 100 feet of 3/8" chain spliced to 12-plait
nylon line. Using the 12-plait and chain allows the Lewmar V2 windlass
to feed the rode into the locker in a nice neat stack and no twisting
or hackles are formed.

Don't forget to fix the bitter end of the rode to the bulkhead forward
of the V-berth or some other suitable position to avoid losing the
whole rode. When fixing the bitter end, use small lines that will be
easy to cut in an emergency.

George DuBose
Skylark P36-1

> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "pearson-boats" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
> send an email to pearson-boat...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to pearso...@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/pearson-boats.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
--
George DuBose
Wiedstrasse 16
D-50859 Köln
Germany
Mobile: +49.160.481.1234
Skype: georgedubose or call +1.347.284.6443

Video interview on YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcOxW65Xe10&feature=youtu.be

Personal website:
http://www.george-dubose.com

Galleries:
https://www.rockpaperphoto.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=George+DuBose
http://www.modernrocksgallery.com/george-dubose-photographer
http://www.houseofroulx.com/collections/george-dubose
https://classicrockphotography.jp/?s=George+DuBose

Short video of Skylark's vacation:
https://vimeo.com/133183259
Password: SkylarkNY

S/V Skylark
Compagnieshaven
Enkhuizen, NL

[George DuBose]

I forgot to mention the 1/2" HDPE backing plate that is under the hard
spot. The the anchor roller, the chain stopper and the windlass are
mounted through the hard spot and the backing plate.

The backing plate cracked due to the unevenness of the underside of the
hard spot, but the deck hardware survived 23 hours of towing up the
Rhine river behind a riverboat averaging 9 knots through the current.

George
Skylark P36-1

On Wed, 10 Apr 2019 14:17:00 +0200, George DuBose wrote:
> Skylark had a heavy gauge Windline anchor roller installed between the
> forestay chainplate and the starboard skeen chock.
>
> There is a hard spot of 3/4" plywood on the centerline from the bow to
> the beginning of the cabin top. It can been "seen" from inside the
> anchor rode locker forward of the V-berth.
>
> Skylark's anchor rode is 100 feet of 3/8" chain spliced to 12-plait
> nylon line. Using the 12-plait and chain allows the Lewmar V2 windlass
> to feed the rode into the locker in a nice neat stack and no twisting
> or hackles are formed.
>
> Don't forget to fix the bitter end of the rode to the bulkhead forward
> of the V-berth or some other suitable position to avoid losing the
> whole rode. When fixing the bitter end, use small lines that will be
> easy to cut in an emergency.
>
> George DuBose
> Skylark P36-1

[Scott Quigley]

Thanks George. Im looking at a Lewmar V700 right now and was conerned of the small anchor locker fouling up the chain. You wouldnt happen to know how far back from the forestay that you mounted it?

[Robert Franklin]

M

--

Robert M. Franklin, Esq.
145 Lagrange Street
Chestnut Hill, MA 02467-3047
617 277 5900 Cell
617 277 5901 Fax
email:  robertm...@gmail.com

[Robert Franklin]

Maybe I am wrong to disparage a power driven windlass. I'm mostly thinking of battery reserve with the assumption that pulling anchor with a power driven windlass is a substantial drain.

Bob Franklin

[Peter Ogilvie]

Electric windlasses are a godsend for single handing and a super easy way to haul the anchor in any case.  If you are going vertical windlass, get one with a rope capstan as well as chain gypsy.  The rope capstan comes in real handy for kedging off and many other times.  The capstan has saved my butt more than once.

A 25# CQR is woefully undersized for a 36” boat.  Okay for a lunch hook in protected anchorages but will almost certainly drag in a real blow.  A new pattern anchor 10 kilo would be minimum and still make me nervous.  I’ve got a 15 Kilo Manson Supreme on my P35 and I sleep soundly at night.  That’s an anchor size I ‘d recommend for boats near the size of the P35.  Seems to be a trend for people to put way oversize anchors on their boats probably because of electric windlasses.  Bigger anchors means more weight forward and probably will never be needed.  Remember, you will need to haul it in by hand at some point as electric windlasses are not fool proof.  

[Robert Franklin]

Peter,

Google doesn't seem inclined to translate kilo in weight to pounds.  Do it for me, please.

10 kilo = ?

15 kilo = ?

Bob

[Bob Maxwell]

1 kilo = 2.2 lbs

Bob

[Guy Johnson]

2.2 lbs per kilo

Sent from Outlook

---

From: pearso...@googlegroups.com <pearso...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Robert Franklin <robertm...@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2019 6:30 PM
To: pearso...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [pearson ] 10 M Windlass?

 

[Dave Cole]

Its really kilograms, which is "kilo" (1000) "grams".

 

If you do a search for kilograms to pounds it pops right up.

 

10 kilo = 22 lbs

15 kilo = 33 lbs

 

Fortunately you didn't asked about the Ton as a unit of weight!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ton

 

 

Dave

10M #26

---

From: pearso...@googlegroups.com [mailto:pearso...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Robert Franklin

Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2019 6:30 PM
To: pearso...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [pearson ] 10 M Windlass?

[Peter Ogilvie]

10 Kilo is 22# 15 Kilo is 33#,  They are probably a little heavier as they and most other anchors from metric countries, the rest of the world, become 25# and 35#.  

[George DuBose]

Here is a manual and a photo of the position of the foredeck hardware
and windlass.....The description of the hardware is in the manual.

[George DuBose]

I think one should only use the windlass with the motor running. 1. to
relieve the strain on the rode and 2. to keep the windlass battery
charged.

My 2¢

George

[George DuBose]

Skylark wears an Manson Supreme anchor one size bigger. 45lbs. I sleep
well on anchor also.

George



On Wed, 10 Apr 2019 11:48:35 -1000, 'Peter Ogilvie' via pearson-boats
wrote:

[George DuBose]

kilo = 2.2 lbs

5 kilos = 11 lbs

[George DuBose]

[robertm...@gmail.com]

After a Pandemic summer 2020 of no launch no sailing and this past summer 2021 of miserable weather which reduced our sailing time I am looking forward to summer 2022. I have enjoyed a lot of helpful hints and strongly worded suggestions from group members in the past when I have confronted my inadequate current anchoring system and would like to revisit the subject, please.

I have expressed confidence in my primary 25# CQR, which someone in this thread most accurately describes as "woefully inadequate". I've been lucky. My misplaced confidence derives from 40 years using it, but with unrealistic expectations coupled with careful anchoring choices, i.e. locations.  I feel my luck may be running out and I would like to be able to choose an anchoring site without needing to be so careful about protections from the wind and a hospitable bottom.  The day is bound to come when I will havre to anchor somewhere I would prefer not to be.  

My boat is a Pearson 36-1, 13,500 lbs displacement with a small dodger for reduced windage, roller furling and a simple sail cover.  I might have my Avon Redstart upturned on the foredeck, but that would probably not work with a windlass in place.

My question is windlass.

I have  none right now.  I am opposed to an electric, for numerous reasons which everyone can probably guess.  That leaves a mechanical choice.  I need suggestions. There is a local marine salvage store in Quincy,. I've never been there, but it seems to me a mechanical windlass is just the kind of thing a marine salvage store might have.  There is another salvage store an hour away.  I am not keen on traveling, but at the prices, a trip would be worth it.

I need to get started considering an installation.  I should include a picture of my foredeck, but am 3,000 miles from the boat right now.  Basically, there is the original center line cleat.  Two additional very robust cleats have been added on the port and starboard sides.  I guess I could eliminate the center cleat, if I had to.

I have a 35# CQR in storage which is my choice, if I can set up a way to lift it.  I cannot lift it by hand, or it would be such a chore, I would be disinclined to use it routinely.  Thus, without a windlass the 35 lb CQR would only be a solution replaced by a problem.  I don't want that.  My heavy weather back up anchor stored in the starboard cockpit locker is a 25 lb Danforth.  I think that old style anchor is not woefully inadequate for most anchoring situations that would make my 25 lb CQR "woefully inadequate".  However, removing it and setting it up with the chain,/rope rode I have reserved for that purpose is enough of a chore that in marginal situations I might opt not to exert myself with fingers crossed and that is not a prudent way to operate, I admit.

I have two holes in my foredeck.  Both are on the starboard side forward above the chain locker.  One is occupied by a small Cowel vent.  The other is a standard anchor chain port with a removable cover. I use the latter to feed my chain/rode below after hauling the CQR into the bow roller.  I do not mind the accumulation of 30 feet of chain and 100 feet of 3 strand on the deck while motoring out of an anchorage and taking the time to feed it by hand into the anchor locker.  I never sail single handed, although I recognize that I might be required in an emergency.  I can handle that unlikely event.

Ideally, I would prefer not to put another hole into my foredeck, but I am capable of this kind of work, proper structural back up and all that might be involved.  It is a preference, not a necessity to avoid the hole.  

From what I see looking at windlasses online, a mechanical windlass for my needs would be a shallow profile horizontal affair, operated by a wind handle, as compared to a large item operated by a pumping handle.  I am only interested in the effort needed to raise the 35 lb CQR and attached chain 20 feet above the sea floor, maybe 22 feet.  I think that makes about 45 lbs.  I can't lift that by hand. If I move to the larger CQR, I must have a mechanical assist.  I am well aware that a windlass is not a device to move the boat forward.

Under the best of solutions, all I want is an assist for that last 20+ feet.  If I could figure out a satisfactory way to accomplish this without a windlass I would, but so far any solution other than a mechanical windlass confounds me.  I would opt for a device that applies the power to lift the anchor up and into the bow roller without necessarily having the rode and chain drop into the locker.  This may be a confusing question.  What I am trying to describe is having a gorilla at my back helping me pull the larger anchor,  Once it is secured in the bow roller, I would then feed the rode below. into the existing chain locker port. I can not conceive of a device/windlass the would grab the chain and rope in such a fashion to accomplish what I am describing.

If I have done a poor job of explaining what I am trying to achieve, I'll try again.

Finally, I am not lacking in awareness that a solution way outside the conventional approach to. common problem may have a profound lack of excitement for a potential next buyer/owner and generally I try to avoid solutions that are contrived to that extent. This probably circles me back to a center line mechanical windlass with a hole to direct the rode into the chain locker..

I am looking forward to comments.

Thanks

Bob Franklin

On Thursday, April 11, 2019 at 5:55:36 AM UTC-7 George DuBose wrote:

[George DuBose]

I wrote in my book about renovating Skylark, how I installed a Lewmar V2. Using the hard spot in the center of the foredeck and strong backing has held up very well. I also used larger and stronger skene chocks and bigger cleats. The Windline anchor holder is quite heavy construction.

Also in the book, how to cut a 4" hole in the hard spot with a 4" hole cutter without breaking your arm...

George/Skylark

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "pearson-boats" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to pearson-boat...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pearson-boats/c0bc4dfe-9cb0-416d-86af-a2db4a59fc42n%40googlegroups.com.

[Peter Ogilvie]

If your foredeck was constructed like my P35 there is a plywood core running back from bow to cabin side.  Assume it’s there to strengthen the lay up for windlass installations.  Mention that just so you are aware if you’ve thought about mounting a windlass off center.  You can up a windlass so the chain just dumps out on deck.  As long as you are up on the foredeck to clear the chain away from the windlass that might work.  Manually feed the chain into the existing pukas or pile it on deck to be fed below at your convenience.    

As long as you have the depth in the chain locker for the chain to pile up without jamming at the deck, it’s way easier to let the chain self store from the windlass.  Makes solo anchor retrieval from the helm easy peasy when single handing among the benefits.  I highly recommend a vertical windlass with rope capstan and chain gypsy.  Makes warping into Med. moorings or kedging off when the bottom sneaks up on you.

It would be a bit complicated and labor intensive but you could use the sheet winches with a line tied to the anchor chain using a rolling hitch to haul in the last or any part of the rode

mfra...@gmail.com wrote:

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "pearson-boats" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to pearson-boat...@googlegroups.com.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

I won't comment on the anchor choices or logistics of anchoring but I have some thoughts on the installation of a windlass.

It is likely that the P36 foredeck construction is like the P35.  And like the 10M.  The 3/4 plywood core running down the center is about 7" wide.  I think it was for the bow cleat and for a foredeck track should the boat be setup for spinnaker.  If you have that track it is very likely that the plywood core is already delaminated and shot from water intrusion.  Also likely around the bow cleat mounting.   Especially if the boat has lived on a mooring for much of it's life and the mounting of the cleat was never re-done. 

For any windlass mount I would add a significant backing plate in a similar manner to what I did on my 10M for the jib boom.  See details here:
http://dan.pfeiffer.net/10m/hoyt_jib_boom_install_details.htm
This job is fairly straightforward but not easy with challenging access to the forepeak.  To do this right requires some careful planning and execution and a lot of prep work.  But it is manageable.  And you may have a different idea about what is sufficient for this sort of thing. 

The only manual windlass I have seen that was vertical (handle spins in horizontal plane) is the Anchorman (Lewmar).  They are discontinued since 2006? and very hard to find.  They came in two versions, both with gypsy and one also with a drum (like a winch).  I have the unit with the drum that I got new about 15 years ago.  I have yet to install it as I basically never anchor in my current boating circumstances.  But it is on the list to facilitate more extended cruising in the future.   Photo here of it on my foredeck:
http://dan.pfeiffer.net/10m/anchor_windlass_test_fit_01.jpg

Spotted this on ebay:
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2047675.m570.l1313&_nkw=384354960514&_sacat=0

From the description this seems like a unit intended to have a motor but if it can function as a manual unit without the motor this is fairly close to the Anchorman.  But I don't know if it can do that.  Sort of looks like the shaft that would go below deck to the motor was cut off...  Look at the photos.   If it will function as a proper manual windlass the price is probably good and in line with the Anchorman when it was still available.
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2047675.m570.l1313&_nkw=384354960514&_sacat=0


Dan Pfeiffer

 

On 2021-10-26 12:18 pm, 'Peter Ogilvie' via pearson-boats wrote:

If your foredeck was constructed like my P35 there is a plywood core running back from bow to cabin side.  Assume it's there to strengthen the lay up for windlass installations.  Mention that just so you are aware if you've thought about mounting a windlass off center.  You can up a windlass so the chain just dumps out on deck.  As long as you are up on the foredeck to clear the chain away from the windlass that might work.  Manually feed the chain into the existing pukas or pile it on deck to be fed below at your convenience.    

 

As long as you have the depth in the chain locker for the chain to pile up without jamming at the deck, it's way easier to let the chain self store from the windlass.  Makes solo anchor retrieval from the helm easy peasy when single handing among the benefits.  I highly recommend a vertical windlass with rope capstan and chain gypsy.  Makes warping into Med. moorings or kedging off when the bottom sneaks up on you.

 

It would be a bit complicated and labor intensive but you could use the sheet winches with a line tied to the anchor chain using a rolling hitch to haul in the last or any part of the rode

 

mfra...@gmail.com wrote:

....

[Tim Smith]

Robert and Pearson folk..

Thought experiment.

Would a typical engine or other hoist solve the problem?  Set aside material suitability concerns, rigging issues and temporary anchor chain track protection during retrieval issues.

Pull rode until access to chain or final lift point. Anchor the hoist for as long of a chain pull as hoist/vessel allows. Secure/cleat chain after each pull and repeat?  Not pretty but just thinking about your gorilla request.

Stay well.

Tim Smith

tbsm...@gmail.com

617-536-1222 D

720-530-2971 C/T

617-933-7606 F

www.linkedin.com/in/tbsmith/

 

 

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "pearson-boats" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to pearson-boat...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pearson-boats/8f43222c62d341338ab18ed1e23754fa%40pfeiffer.net.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

I like the creativity.  I would say there are already several components on the boat that could be put to the same purpose with some auxilliary line (could probably be 5/16 staset) - primary genoa winches, mast winches, cabin top winches.  Probably handiest for it to be self tailing.  

But best to pull on the actual rode rather than having to rig some auxiliary line and then have to manage two?

The real issue is handling the chain.  Otherwise you could fit a standard winch on the foredeck.   The typical vertical windlass gypsies handle line and chain. 

The barriers of cost and pride may be the real limiting factors here.  


Dan Pfeiffer

[Peter Ogilvie]

Know you don’t want an electric windlass but think it’s really foolish not to go electric.  They make dropping and raising the anchor a piece of cake and almost a must if you single hand.  Did SoPac with a manual windlass when I was much younger and even in my youth it was serious Aerobic exercise cranking in 150’ of chain and a 45# CQR.  That’s something I wouldn’t think of doing at my current age.  Probably told the story before of a couple on an Ingrid who we arranged to meet inside the reef south of Papeete.  Watched them come in through the pass, drop anchor and jump in the water for a little snorkeling.  They climbed back on their 28,000# boat, zipped up the anchor with their electric windlass, moved the boat 50 yards or so, dropped the anchor, and jumped back in the water.  They repeated the sequence a number f times till eventually they were anchored next to us and swam over to our boat.  We asked why they kept dropping anchor, moving the boat a short distance and re-anchoring.  They were looking for exotic shells and it was so easy to raise the anchor with their electric windlass that they used their 28,000 boat like you would a dinghy.  I had a bad case of electric windlass envy the whole rest of our cruise.  

It’s easy to install an electric windlass.  You need the proper sized cable from the battery to the windlass, a large fuse to take the current, a switch and controls for it.  With a remote control or 2nd set of switches in the cockpit you can raise and lower the winch from the cockpit.  Something that could be a life saver if you get pinned against the shore and have to power up the rode into a strong wind and chop.  They do need electrons but even a small engine’s alternator can power one and liberal use of Dielectric Grease and keeping the terminals clean will go a long way to ensuring reliability.

 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pearson-boats/CACXvQDxR7D6_qDB7-B7_ShnXEnyZsKOtV8TqDWJsGOdqiKeYAw%40mail.gmail.com.

[Robert Franklin]

All good suggestions leaning for me in the direction of KISS.  I think I will investigate the possibility of using the genoa sheet winch at the cockpit.  This will allow for a pull of about 30 feet which should be enough to pick the larger CQR off the bottom all the way into the roller.  I rarely anchor in more than 20 feet and if I were in deep water, I would be rethinking the anchoring entirely.

The issue is going to be the angle from the winch to the bow and whether it is a clear run or not.  I do have a much smaller halyard winch on the cabin top starboard next to the companionway.  Same on the port side.  These were installed when the owner was mesmerised by the trend of all sail controls being accessible and controllable from the cockpit.  I have found that to be annoying, although I understand it is popular and arguably safer.

The other problem is the 35 lb CQR is just slightly too wide at the articulating hinge to pass the winged opening of my current Windline roller.  I am going to explore whether it can be bent more open by a machine shop without compromising its strength.

In that regard, I believe George Dubose had his bow roller bent and replaced it, but considers the damaged one to still be serviceable. (George, would you send me a photo, again?)

Using a winch on the mast does not give enough "scope" to haul the anchor all the way in. Re-attaching the pulling rope, which while the anchor dangled halfway between the seafloor and the bow would not be convenient and might lead to injury.  Best to attach it once when the bow is directly above the anchor and have the helmswoman, crank the genoa winch while I stand by on the bow. This would take some coordination and practice. But it eliminates the windlass entirely.

Thanks again everyone.

Bob

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pearson-boats/CACXvQDxR7D6_qDB7-B7_ShnXEnyZsKOtV8TqDWJsGOdqiKeYAw%40mail.gmail.com.

[Robert Franklin]

Dan, 

That is a very pretty piece of hardware on your foredeck. Do I notice that your bow has not chocks, or it one obscured in the photo by the starboard bow pulpit stanchion?

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "pearson-boats" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to pearson-boat...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pearson-boats/8f43222c62d341338ab18ed1e23754fa%40pfeiffer.net.

[George DuBose]

Bob, here is the layout of my foredeck. Notice the large skene chocks. The skene chocks that were installed when I got the boat were insufficient and one was even broken.

The windlass was installed through the 3/4" plywood on the centerline and all the cleats and windlass are backed up with 1/2" HDPE.

The deck plate to starboard of the windlass is where I have a hose connection to attached a hose and wash down the anchor rode as it comes aboard. Don't want any nasties in my anchor compartment.

I have been towed up the Rhine river against the current for 23 hours from Tiel, NL to Cologne, Germany and other than the bulkheads screeching on occasion, I had no problems.

I don't think Pearson bonded or tabbed the top of the bulkheads, leaving them to make noise as the hull flexes.

George

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pearson-boats/CAODnOUb2C7b4%3Dngo02guQB_0Dx%3DV8XehghJs750By4E2u3BiPg%40mail.gmail.com.

[Scott Quigley]

Hey Dan,

I love your closing argument! I haven't looked at these threads in years and miss the sharing of knowledge. I parted way with the 10M and am starting a refit on a C&C 30. Hope all is well my friend.

Scott

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "pearson-boats" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to pearson-boat...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pearson-boats/eecc7bcaf4c9141700b34d656cb971b1%40pfeiffer.net.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Bob,  your description of using a cockpit winch to handle a "pulling rope" makes me wonder if you realize what that KISS acronym stands for.   Pulling the anchor line directly will be much simper than rigging some second line and running around managing both.   And you will have a potentially messy anchor rode running all the way along the side deck.   You could use a halyard to lift the rode too.  A good 55 feet of scope there and have all that lovely goop dripping from above.

KISS would be putting a proper windlass (manual or electric) that can handle the line and chain on the bow.   Simplest in operation would be the electric with it's advantages that Peter O  described nicely.   A bit more effort/complexity to install but that's the price for the simpler operation?   If I did a lot of anchoring that's what I would do.   I am waiting for the 48V units to come along.

I would rather see fiberglass board ( of the type McMaster Carr sells) glued and tabbed in place with epoxy than any HDPE backing plate for such a load bearing job as backing a windlass and/or the bow cleats.  HDPE is great stuff for many things but not for this.  It's just not firm enough.    Amazing abrasion resistance though.  

I removed the OEM bow chocks and moved the bow cleats to the tow rail thus eliminating a potential point of chafe.   The bow cleats mount with 1/2" studs that bolt through the backing plate I added for my jib boom mount.   Details here:
http://dan.pfeiffer.net/10m/hoyt_jib_boom_install_details.htm


Dan Pfeiffer

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pearson-boats/1459249018.6636103.1635333189217%40webmail.strato.com.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Thanks Scott.  Great to hear from you.  I hope all is working out well.  The C&C 30 is a great boat.  Capable and good pointing as I recall.  Always liked C&C boats. 

We have had a great sailing season here.  Mast comes down today.  Boat comes out of the water tomorrow.  Lots of projects...

 

A friend got a cool video the other day of us flying our asym spinnaker.
https://youtu.be/VlR9Bdr0ucU


Dan

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pearson-boats/CAGrpfkC0q523u8qQJGSmeh3o%3Dc0bgP%2B4p9rm1M7m%3DLqUOAd0og%40mail.gmail.com.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Oops - thought that was off list reply.  Sorry for the clutter.  Enjoy the pics.

Dan Pfeiffer

[Jeff Griglack]

No problem, Dan.  Looks like fun, but cold.  Sunday, I was out for my first sail of the season (and second to last) in Rhode Island in shirt sleeves (well, I wore jeans too).

Now we are in the middle of a Nor'Easter with winds over 60 mph at the boat.  I wish they had forecast it on Sunday.  I would have done more to prepare the boat.  I hope it's okay.

Jeff

------------------------------------------------------------------
| Jeff Griglack             "Jabberwocky" P-365 #269

------------------------------------------------------------------
| "Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent"
|                   - Walt Kelly
| 'Years ago my mother used to say to me, she'd say, "In this
| world, Elwood, you must be" – she always called me Elwood –
| "In this world, Elwood, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant."
| Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. You may quote me.'
|               —James Stewart as Elwood P. Dowd
------------------------------------------------------------------

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "pearson-boats" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to pearson-boat...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pearson-boats/f8df8aed99be87bc26fec47683cb8e0b%40pfeiffer.net.

[Peter McGowan]

On the 30 year anniversary of the perfect storm too.  Gotta love it.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pearson-boats/CAJj5SXKexctH2gHEuqrakqkALd-sD%3D9-Qd2v0KYOeyG4QhD_1Q%40mail.gmail.com.

[Guy Johnson]

I appreciated the pictures and the youtube link

Guy

Sent from Outlook

---

From: pearso...@googlegroups.com <pearso...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Dan Pfeiffer <d...@pfeiffer.net>
Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2021 8:49 AM
To: pearso...@googlegroups.com <pearso...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [pearson ] Photos (was: 10 M Windlass?)

 

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "pearson-boats" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to pearson-boat...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pearson-boats/f8df8aed99be87bc26fec47683cb8e0b%40pfeiffer.net.

[Robert Franklin]

Dan,

I understand your point about foredeck and side deck clutter.  Generally, I anchor in 20 ft of water or less. 

Here is the plan I am considering.  I am on the foredeck, wife at the helm.  We ease forward under motor until over the anchor, while I pull the rope, then chain by hand.  I hsve read about rope/chain anchor rodes an it seems the affection for chain may be exaggerated.  The rope absorbs shock loads and an all rope rode would be fine except in conditions where the bottom is inhospitable, as would be the case with coral or rocks.

I have 30 feet of 3/8 chain spliced to 150 feet of three strand.

In 20 feet of water there would be 25 feet of chain between the bow and the anchor.

After I secure my end of the "pulling" line to the chain just aft of where it comes though the chock, I signal to the helmswoman to begin crankling the cockpit end of the pulling line.  The anchor shoud begin to break free and rise up. The distance from the attachment point to the winch will be greater than the distance needed to bring the anchor into the roller.  There will be an extra line, the "pulling line", but that will be on the side deck mostly away from the rode itself.

Bob

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pearson-boats/d8aa91994486b43c164c8ad0779dc089%40pfeiffer.net.

[Alptraveler]

Bob,

We are in the EXACT situation as you. Our 31-2 is also NOT fitted with a windlass and my asking about installing one seemed futile. We also anchor in approx 20' water, The Great Lakes. We are x2 females in our mid 60's and the Ole body's muscle strength is not what it was in my younger yrs, making the anchor pull taxing, especially in close quarters with a wind. We brainstormed...

1. We had an xtra line attached at 1st chain link to attach to a cockpit winch (we have the same chain and rode as you mentioned above). We ran the xtra line parallel to the rode and when it was time to bring up anchor (same procedure as you described above) we brought the xtra line back to the cockpit to start the cranking process(not exactly cranking cuz we have a portable electric winch). That did NOT work! The xtra line wrapped itself around our rode as if it were a candy cane. Grrrrr

2. Trial #2...we knew we could both pull the chain together once we were over the anchor. We wanted someone at the helm at all times so that was not our ideal situation but in a pinch it would work.

3. Trial #3...we slowly motored up to get over the anchor-cleated the rode for a quick transfer to the cockpit winch- pulled the chain up but.....that meant it had to be dragged on and over the deck. Surprisingly,  it was not brutal on the deck at all. I can imagine doing that multiple times and my deck will take a beating.

4. Trial #4.....we may try your method of adding the xtra line AFTER we get over the anchor,as you did. Did you use a clove hitch onto the line or a quick connect thru the 1st chain link or..????

5. Ideally, we would love to have a windlass but a rebuild is more pressing rt now. Besides,  we can't seem to get anyone willing to create an option for us, they just keep telling me is is impossible. The person posting their "fix" that included a pic seems to be similar to what I have schemed in my head. I will wait til he gets the project done and he posts more pics to see if it worth my $(we must pay for the labor, we live 5 hrs from the boat storage and motels are $125+ nt....you do the math for the time required for such a project). We did save $ by installing our own solar panels + controller and holding tank sensor this yr tho.

Thanks for the alternative idea...

Vikki

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pearson-boats/CAODnOUY9CthTOO34P4kw8ARDOMkNqab%2BGFk1aknShwj73GD%3DQA%40mail.gmail.com.

[Peter McGowan]

Another crazy idea:  Grab a couple of double sheeve blocks and some 8mm line (or a used traveler system setup) and make yourself a 4:1 (or more!) setup that you can store in a mesh bag.  When needed attach one end to your mast and the other end to your first chain link (once it appears).  Then pull in on your “easy lift” line which should be easy enough until the blocks meet.  I don’t know precisely but on a P36 that’s 18’ of rode sorted very easily.  You could engage the anchor stopper and repeat or just finish by hand.  Put system back in bag for next time.   

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pearson-boats/CADrSpbr3R9w4yGSs-DPyJ8H4-RWhtvJ-Oy1vpoptQyEgw9-5GA%40mail.gmail.com.

[George DuBose]

Installing a windlass is not a difficult project if you have a 4" hole cutter. The difficult bit is getting power to the windlass and using cables of a sufficient diameter.

Skylark has two battery banks, one is dedicated to the engine and the windlass, but in after thought, I only use the windlass when the engine is running and my upgraded alternator is sufficient enough to power the windlass.

I realized after my first night on anchor with my "new" purchase (P36-1) that I was going to need mechanical assistance when pulling my anchor out of the mud.

George/Skylark

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pearson-boats/CADrSpbr3R9w4yGSs-DPyJ8H4-RWhtvJ-Oy1vpoptQyEgw9-5GA%40mail.gmail.com.

[Jeff Griglack]

I agree with George and Dan.  If you want to keep it simple, the simplest solution is to install a windless.

My P365 has an electric windlass that is connected, through a large circuit breaker, directly to the battery.  I do not remember if it is the house bank or the engine bank because the last time I used it was in the spring when I replaced the old anchor with a 45 lb. Mantus.  My windlass is a horizontal one, made by Lewmar, and there is no 4" hole (I assume the large hole is for the motor attachment on the vertical windlass).  The wiring is done with pretty large cables (0 or 00, but I don't think 000) running back to a locker about mid-boat where there is a solenoid for the switches and then back to the battery.  The switches are also mounted on the foredeck, but I am going to install a remote so I can operate it from the cockpit.

There is nothing overly complex about the installation that would prevent the average do-it-yourself person from doing it.  Installation instructions document this all very well.

The attached picture is the best I have on hand of the foredeck with the windless in place.  I wish I had a better one.

Jeff

------------------------------------------------------------------
| Jeff Griglack             "Jabberwocky" P-365 #269

------------------------------------------------------------------
| "Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent"
|                   - Walt Kelly
| 'Years ago my mother used to say to me, she'd say, "In this
| world, Elwood, you must be" – she always called me Elwood –
| "In this world, Elwood, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant."
| Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. You may quote me.'
|               —James Stewart as Elwood P. Dowd
------------------------------------------------------------------

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pearson-boats/1298216670.255813.1635427581103%40webmail.strato.com.

[Guy Johnson]

Bob;

if you switched from 3/8" chain to 5/16" chain you'd save 13.5 pounds. That might make enough of a difference that you could pull the anchor by hand. 

You could also use an aluminum anchor in place of your CQR and save a few more pounds. 

My most used anchor is a Danforth 12H. 

Guy

Puffin 10M #6

Sent from Outlook

---

From: pearso...@googlegroups.com <pearso...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of George DuBose <bo...@george-dubose.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2021 9:26 AM
To: pearso...@googlegroups.com <pearso...@googlegroups.com>; Alptraveler <alptr...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [pearson ] 10 M Windlass?

 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pearson-boats/1298216670.255813.1635427581103%40webmail.strato.com.

[Robert Franklin]

Guy,

I think you are telling me that 30 feet of 3/8 chain weighs 13 lbs.  But I am only pulling the length from the sea floor to the bow, usually around 1/2 that distance.

I also discovered that the size of chain is misleading.  I purchased 30 feet of 3/8 chain that was about twice as heavy as the 3/8 chain I have for the other anchor.  It seem chain at a specific length comes in different specifications.

I could also reduce the chain to just a few feet given my sailing area of South Cape.  From some recent reading the chain may not be necessary at all.  Even with all rope I don't think I can lift the 45 lb CQR.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pearson-boats/MN2PR03MB4654A88B2A4C3C9636DB5675BC869%40MN2PR03MB4654.namprd03.prod.outlook.com.

[Robert Franklin]

Interesting idea.  I just happen to have the original traveler blocks from my boat when the new one was installed. So I am ready to go if that approach will work.  It should and the angle might be better than from the genoa winch.  The only problem I see is a lot of rope given the 4 of five part of line needed for the block and tackle.  i.e. multiply 18 feet by 5

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pearson-boats/CAJF6WABgonR84Gk1%3DmbHqzREkY%3DWrPrCht2XEJwFu-7F-OTraA%40mail.gmail.com.

[Robert Franklin]

Jeff, I always respect you well thought comments. 

However, I chuckled on this one as I thought of a couple days work, crawling and reaching and running the wiring, the switch installation, the fuse etc. for that simplest approach to raising my anchor.  

Like we all know, simple in design and concept, maybe not so simple when you are standing on your head to implement.

Bob

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pearson-boats/CAJj5SX%2BmW6N9ksxbu7v3PzLZZao44T%2BffVXgBpX2J3xXjwpc5w%40mail.gmail.com.

[Bob Maxwell]

There comes a point in life that sometimes the best way to get something you want or need is to write the check.

Many on this board are able to mine the ore, alloy the steel, and shape the part with a hand-held file to make a bracket.  If you have the skill, time and desire, that's awesome.  But it's not the only way.

Bob

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pearson-boats/CAODnOUbJC4qBOQerDPy5E8pu_w_PDYQmnX8asAjcz9%2BOLT4uDQ%40mail.gmail.com.

[Robert Franklin]

You sound like my wife. Good advice, but I generally ignore it.

DIY has become something of an obsession for me. It's not the money. God knows I have enough of that.  It's something less tangible, but I am not absolute on the decision.  I have only once had a stranger aboard my boat and that was a friend who is an expert in composites, especially epoxy.  He did a massive keel repair that, as our friend George Dubose often says, makes our P36 "better than new".  Maybe the day will come for me to embrace the "badge", but I don't see it in the few years I have left.

But, as I said to begin, thank you for the good and kind advice.

Bob

Bob

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pearson-boats/CAK8p_9PycNC7THcT1DavJ0N5SSqtSVAeDr_-EQGPLwhWsRLKog%40mail.gmail.com.

[Jeff Griglack]

Bob,

I was trying to point out that the installation was much simpler than I expected and could easily be a diy project. My advice, as always, is offered with the best intentions and probably worth what you paid for it.

Jeff

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pearson-boats/CAODnOUbJC4qBOQerDPy5E8pu_w_PDYQmnX8asAjcz9%2BOLT4uDQ%40mail.gmail.com.

[Robert Franklin]

Vickky,

Sorry it has taken me a couple days to reply to your well thought through series of solutions. We probably should take this off group, but I think others will be interested.  If we get into more limited details we might consider doing that.

First, I am looking at a rather expensive piece of anchor jewelry called a "chain grab".  The one that caught my attention is sold by Ultramarine for about 60+ dollars and you can Google to look at it, or I will send a link.

However sometimes I find devices are just excuses for spending money on solutions that can be accomplished more easily in other ways.

I have not tried anything yet except to size my 45 lb CQR to the roller and I find it will not fit the current opening of my Windline. I am considering seeing if the Windline can be bent slightly open so I can use it with the existing holes.  Otherwise I have to buy a new roller and see if I can somehow match and drill new holes compatible with the holes in my foredeck. This is not your problem.

Here is my untested approach:

One person forward. One at the helm.  Motor up gently to just over the anchor while pulling in the rope then chain. Cleat the chain.  Attach a rope to the chain, either with a chain grab or a rolling hitch.

The helmsperson can crank but it sounds like you've done this. Your problem is the portable electric winch. Maybe the block and tack attached to the mast as recently suggested (by Peter ?) is an alternative to consider.  I will look into that and report back. It may take me some time to get back to my boat. 

If you have a 25 lb CQR that should be sufficient for your boat.

I dragged once in Provincetown, but typical of the Cape, the bottom was sand smooth and uniform like sugar and the plow anchor plowed a nice furrow as it was designed to do. I switched to the Danforth on that occasion and it held.

Bob Franklin

On Thu, Oct 28, 2021 at 7:40 AM Alptraveler <alptr...@gmail.com> wrote:

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pearson-boats/CADrSpbr3R9w4yGSs-DPyJ8H4-RWhtvJ-Oy1vpoptQyEgw9-5GA%40mail.gmail.com.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Seems to me there are two solutions to your anchor recovery problem.  One is a windlass and the other is not a windlass.  You have already spent some amount of time pondering the latter.  Add to that the time over just one season that a windlass would save you over the other solutions.  Work at MacDonald's for that amount of time and you will make enough money to buy and pay for the installation of a windlass.  There may also come a time when you need to recover the anchor in less than ideal conditions.  I suggest that is no time to be fussing with pull lines, block and tackles, chain grabs, or rolling hitches on a pitching foredeck. 


Dan Pfeiffer

[George DuBose]

Great response Dan. If one is too, let's say "feeble" to raise one's anchor by hand, I think the only solution is a windlass either manual or electric.

I was 56 when Skylark came into my life and even her original rode and anchor were heavy enough to make me realize that a windlass was going to be my only solution.

I anchor in depths up to 30 feet and having 100 feet of chain and 200 feet of 12 plait gives me a secure feeling when I am on the hook.

Some things are worth spending money on. I have learned that if you buy cheap tools, you buy them twice. Having said that, I do buy some cheap tools if I know that I am only going to need them once.

I remember, I bought special wrench from Buck-Algonquin to remove the cap of the rudder post "stuffing box" It was 65mm, not adjustable and cheap...the first time I used it, the wrench bent at the jaws and didn't even budge the cap of the "stuffing box". I bought a 2 foot long adjustable wrench from Harbor Freight for 30 bucks, best cheap tool I ever bought. I use it every couple of years...

George/Skylark

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "pearson-boats" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to pearson-boat...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pearson-boats/8f41106af0f02f0fc5b115d230bb1695%40pfeiffer.net.

[Guy Johnson]

Bob;

I agree with Dan.

 If your concerned about raising your anchor during benign conditions, there are only two possible solutions lighter ground tackle or a windlass. 

You have chosen a relatively heavy anchoring setup that you'll have to replace with something lighter and more expensive or add a windlass, perhaps both. 

My earlier reply was about the weight difference between two 30' lengths of chain 5/16" and 3/8" being 13.5 lbs for the entire length. It was meant as an example of where you could save some weight compared to your current setup. 

I don't think a manual windlass will be a safe option for you, I do think you need an electric windlass. 

I feel your pain around the expense of such an item. 

Guy

Puffin 10M #6

Sent from Outlook

---

From: pearso...@googlegroups.com <pearso...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Dan Pfeiffer <d...@pfeiffer.net>
Sent: Monday, November 1, 2021 8:53 AM
To: pearso...@googlegroups.com <pearso...@googlegroups.com>

Subject: Re: [pearson ] 10 M Windlass?

 

Seems to me there are two solutions to your anchor recovery problem.  One is a windlass and the other is not a windlass.  You have already spent some amount of time pondering the latter.  Add to that the time over just one season that a windlass would save you over the other solutions.  Work at MacDonald's for that amount of time and you will make enough money to buy and pay for the installation of a windlass.  There may also come a time when you need to recover the anchor in less than ideal conditions.  I suggest that is no time to be fussing with pull lines, block and tackles, chain grabs, or rolling hitches on a pitching foredeck. 


Dan Pfeiffer

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "pearson-boats" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to pearson-boat...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pearson-boats/8f41106af0f02f0fc5b115d230bb1695%40pfeiffer.net.

[Guy Johnson]

Edit. 

Sent from Outlook

---

From: pearso...@googlegroups.com <pearso...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Guy Johnson <guy...@hotmail.com>
Sent: Monday, November 1, 2021 10:32 AM

To: pearso...@googlegroups.com <pearso...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [pearson ] 10 M Windlass?

Bob;

I agree with Dan.

 If your concerned about raising your anchor during benign conditions, there are only two possible solutions lighter ground tackle or a windlass. 

You have chosen a relatively heavy anchoring setup that you'll have to replace with something lighter and more expensive or add a windlass, perhaps both. 

My earlier reply was about the weight difference between two 30' lengths of chain 5/16" and 3/8" being 13.5 lbs lighter for the entire length. It was meant as an example of where you could save some weight compared to your current setup. 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pearson-boats/MN2PR03MB4654BD712EBB41FCA4475F2EBC8A9%40MN2PR03MB4654.namprd03.prod.outlook.com.

[Robert Franklin]

Gentlemen: 

I am not sure what I may have said in the past that would have been understandably misleading, but my anchor problem has nothing to do with money.

Thanks for your concern for me, however.  Your comments show that.

Bob

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pearson-boats/MN2PR03MB4654F66D302385686981D171BC8A9%40MN2PR03MB4654.namprd03.prod.outlook.com.

[Guy Johnson]

Bob;

It's clear to me that you need either a much lighter anchor (which will still be a problem under some conditions) or an electric windlass. 

I strongly suggest you give the electric windlass strong consideration. An electric windlass will be expensive. While your at it include either a remote control or an extra set of switches in the cockpit. 

Even when sailing with another, you need to be able to raise the anchor solo. 

 

http://bardensboatyard.com/

Does very nice work. 

Guy

Puffin 10M #6

Sent from Outlook

---

From: pearso...@googlegroups.com <pearso...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Robert Franklin <robertm...@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, November 1, 2021 11:31 AM

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pearson-boats/CAODnOUZ5W0n_zyJUaCC-Wt%3DBuwc9jVm6daVTjQm93N7Zs9K6aQ%40mail.gmail.com.

[Robert Franklin]

I am going to take this in baby steps since I have 8 months to prepare for the next sailing season.  I wonder if I am just being unreasonably contrary despite all the good advice to just go for the windlass. But here is my idea.

Step one is to remove the Windline Anchor Roller currently installed and bring it home.  I intend to try to heat it enough with Map Gas to bend the side wings out  to accommodate the hinge knuckle of the 35 lb CQR.  I am not sure until I measure how much that will require. I am guessing as little as 1/4 inch each side. Will it bend uniformly at the 90 degree turn?  I think that depends on how hot I get it and how narrowly I direct the flame.

My investigation online suggests that a torch will heat stainless sufficiently to accomplish this.  I just haven't figured out yet how to set up the roller to be able to apply leverage once the metal is heated up enough to bend.  This will be an interesting attempt.

There are 4 bolts holding the Windline on the foredeck. Three are reachable.  The fourth requires a contortionist. It is really hard to get to. But if I can retrofit a revised roller it will be worth avoiding a new one and needing to match the holes. The one I have will handle the larger CQR if I can make it fit because it is only a guide.  There is little pressure applied to a roller, which is the way it should be, I believe. The pressure is on the cleat or a snubber if one is used. 

I guess the trick will be to heat the roller along its length without having it attached to anything.  Wood will burn and metal will wick away heat from the area I am heating. My idea is to get it as hot as possible. Then, using a couple large adjustable wrenches on the sides they cool and just ease them apart.  Maybe a couple big pipe wrenches.  Maybe this is ridiculous. Maybe matching the holes makes sense after all.  I won't know until I try,

Bob

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pearson-boats/MN2PR03MB46543348A1373EEB0EEDFEA3BC8B9%40MN2PR03MB4654.namprd03.prod.outlook.com.

[Robert Franklin]

For everyone in the group who offered kind words of encouragement and a lot of good ideas I would like to say thanks update my progress mentioning, I hope, a solution.

As a reminder, I have both a 25 lb CQR and a 35 lb.  The 25 has served me adequately for the past 40 years on my P36, 13,500 displacement with a moderate amount of topside windage.

I have chosen my anchorages carefully, but I am restless as I sleep with the 25 deployed.  I have never used the 35# acquired recently.

Last spring I brought the larger anchor to the boat while it was on the hard, rigged it to my anchor tackle and immediately decided the weight with the chain (probably 5/16) was just too much for my aged and weak condition.  Next came exploration of a windlass (mechanical) or abandoning the idea altogether.  However, the 24# is embarrassing I concede in its inadequate size for my boat. Many would contend the 35# is inadequate as well.  It's just better. Perhaps, much better.

Another problem was that I could not hall the 35# onto the deck because the knuckle where it articulates was just slightly too wide to navigate through the opening of the bow roller. Changing the roller was an option, but a reluctant one because the current Windline was so well secured by me when I installed it and removal and replacement was not an attractive option at all.

This past weekend I tried again. I arrived armed with plans to at least widen the roller. I considered using a torch but wrapping wet rags around the part of the roller near the bow.  Etc. Etc. Etc.  As everyone does when contemplating a challengind project.

As often happens, all the worry was for naught.  I took a couple large adjustable wrenches and opened the stainless steel roller frame 1/4 inch, 1/8 each side. The stainless didn't complain a bit in fact may not have even been aware of what was happening. That was plenty to allow the larger CQR to transit the roller. 

Next it tried raising the anchor. Although the weight of 35 lbs it only increased by about 10 feet of chain, not the 20 extra feet I might have to contend with in a real anchoring situation. Surprisingly, I found I was able to raise this anchor. I was mindful of some physical challenge but I was able to bring it up and into horizontal deck position rather easily. Two things must be emphasized in this process.  Cotton work gloves, good rubber soled shoes.

I am considering moving away from the windlass for now and seeing how I do.

I have a back up plan, or more accurately a supplemental plan.  I have a double block and tackle, such as might be used on a larger sailboat to handle sliding back stays. One of the blocks has a cam action jaw cleat.  Both blocks take 4 part tackle and both have snap hook built in. My spinnaker pole attachment on the front of the mast allows me to snap the cam action block into the mast at an adjustable angle with the other the block snapped into the chain at a point near the bow.  The rest of the anchor lifting process is straightforward.  

I don't think I will need this block and tackle assist, but my wife reminds me that she needs to be capable of doing everything onboard that I do and she's right.

[Jeff Griglack]

Bob,

Since you are reluctant to invest in a windless, and you were able to lift it (with a little struggle), maybe you should invest in a gym membership. :)

Jeff

------------------------------------------------------------------
| Jeff Griglack             "Jabberwocky" P-365 #269

------------------------------------------------------------------
| "Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent"
|                   - Walt Kelly
| 'Years ago my mother used to say to me, she'd say, "In this
| world, Elwood, you must be" – she always called me Elwood –
| "In this world, Elwood, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant."
| Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. You may quote me.'
|               —James Stewart as Elwood P. Dowd
------------------------------------------------------------------

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pearson-boats/CAODnOUY-Jry%2Bm2dh1CtcFwzimsBoP_8BV1i5P0w4okq1AEqe5g%40mail.gmail.com.

[Dave Cole]

Regarding gloves to help your grip;. Try deerskin gloves if you can find them, if not them, try pigskin gloves.   Both work much better than cotton gloves, when you need to pull on something.  Menards sells them from time to time.  

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pearson-boats/CAODnOUY-Jry%2Bm2dh1CtcFwzimsBoP_8BV1i5P0w4okq1AEqe5g%40mail.gmail.com.

[david.l...@gmail.com]

At the end of the season - I pick Bob for my tug-of-war competition team

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pearson-boats/CAJj5SXJepZfjgcQ_KhGZ4VGamLG7nGbHA0Z_x8KRzj7xwNXCZg%40mail.gmail.com.

[Michael Weeks]

I was going to suggest deadlifts myself 

On Nov 24, 2021, at 2:46 PM, david.l...@gmail.com wrote:



To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pearson-boats/088801d7e174%245b62da60%2412288f20%24%40gmail.com.

[Robert Franklin]

Yes, on the dead lift idea.  It is funny how you can forget the simplest things when away from the boat.  I had been troubled by finding an attachment for one end of the block and tackle, considering first the Genoa winch and next something on the front edge of the mast. The spinakker pole eye, which I had forgotten is perfect. It is directly inline with the needed pull and can be adjusted up and down on its track to create an angle that allows for a comfortable pull and a lift at the same time, which you can't get as well with a windlass. 

You do have a somewhat bulky item to carry forward, but I feel that to be a small inconvenience for me to have a cleared deck at the bow.  Of course the windlass is a very cool looking installation and definitely more nautical.

By the way, can any of the engineers in our group tell me the difference of force required to lift 50 lbs of anchor/chain direct, compared say to a windlass, and the force required for a 4 strand block and tackle. It is tempting to believe the force needed is one-quarter, bu that seems too easy, ignoring among other things the effect of the resistance of each pulley. 

The one possible wrinkle yet to be ironed out is if the distance between the pole eye and the attachment to the chain close to the bow is 12 feet (guessing) and the boat is anchored in 20 feet of water plus 6 feet more from the waterline to the bow roller, the block and tackle will need to be detached from the chain and reattached at least once, maybe twice.

I should send a photo of my set up.  I will later.

Bob

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pearson-boats/551940B0-3E17-4A52-A4F0-6909147D3A34%40gmail.com.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

My Anchorman manual windlass has a 3" diameter drum or 1.5" radius.  There is no gearing, just a ratchet.  Very simple.  So with a 10" handle the power is 10/1.5 (that's the handle length divided by radius of the drum).  So that's a 6.6:1 power ratio.  So you would put in 1 lb on the handle for every 6.6 lbs on the load.  So about 8 lbs of force on the handle to haul your 50lb load.  An electric windlass would only require the force to push a button.

Your 4:1 tackle will make it 1/4 as much to pull, plus a bit for friction as you surmised.  So about 13 lbs of pull to pull your 50 lb load.   Keep in mind that to reach from your mast to the bow is about 15 feet on a P36 and you will need 4x that amount of line in the tackle for a total of 60 feet.  And all that will be piled up on the foredeck with your ground tackle for every pull you make.   So you'll need to manage all that in addition to the ground tackle as you run your rube-Goldberg-ish recovery system.  And I would think you want a line that handles nicely so at least 3/8"?  But the load is relatively small compared to something like a mainsheet so 5/16 would probably be fine.  But 60 feet either way. 

I think your making more work for yourself with all this.  Is it really practical?  The windlass would dump the ground tackle straight into the locker. The tackle will drop it on deck where you will manually feed it into the locker.  And you will be pulling potentially messy/mucky chain from the roller all the way across the deck to the mast.  Just the thought of the convenience of being able to hose off the ground tackle with a deck wash hose as it's retrieved seems a pretty valuable plus for a windlass. 


Dan Pfeiffer

[Robert Franklin]

How do you keep water from entering the opening where the chain drops through the deck. With a chain locker there is a drain, but the P36 does not have a locker.  The chain just drops into the hull.  I suppose water (or rain) will find its way back to the bilge to be pumped out, but it seems like a bad thing to have an open hole in the deck. I'm probably missing something, but that's because I have no experience with a windlass. I am going to check out Anchorman on the Internet.

Bob

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "pearson-boats" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to pearson-boat...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pearson-boats/142219f8615cb3a0b89fd03e0167332b%40pfeiffer.net.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Good luck finding Anchorman.  As I have mentioned several times the Anchorman manual windlass is no longer in production.  Mine may have been almost the last 10 years ago?  If you find one buy it.  Thats  a Simpson Lawrence anchorman manual windlass.  The pop up every now and then on Cruisers Forum and such.  Not often.


There are a couple solutions to the problem of water getting in.  A hawes pipe cover is what is typically found.  Examples:

https://www.google.com/search?q=hawse+pipe+cover&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiPiO6f4LL0AhXnjYkEHV8-D9AQ_AUoAXoECAEQAw&biw=1920&bih=955&dpr=1

I installed a floor in my forepeak.  I sealed the space from the bilge and added an overboard drain above the LWL.  The drain is a simple hole through the side of the hull at a point even with the floor I added.  The floor should be at least 8 or 9" above LWL.  I made mine a bit too low and will need to raise it (glass in another up higher) to keep from taking on water from the drain while underway.  I have the luxury of being on a dock and when I return from each sail I hose the deck down and give a rinse to the chain locker.


Dan Pfeiffer

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pearson-boats/CAODnOUY6w_5O%3DgpSXk4p7_XU%2BSmR6JWKpx4%3DGWpGWVqan-nN%3Dw%40mail.gmail.com.

[Robert Franklin]

Dan,

I recall vividly in the bow to install the under deck "back board" for my Windline roller.  You must have had a tiny contortionist assisting with the chain locker project.

Dan,

I assume the dimensions for the 10M are similar to those of the P36 for that area.  While the 10M and P36 have similar profiles above the water line, do you agree they are quite different below.  

Do you see significant differences. I recall the 10M draws 5' 10". The P36 draws 6' 0".  How would you compare the two models?

Bob

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pearson-boats/f0d9a13e655f5e096f67c45d419a0c45%40pfeiffer.net.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

The overhead work in the forepeak was a challenge but not so bad after I made a platform so I could slide in to the space on my back.   It was a bit of a puzzle figuring out to get my shoulders and arms through the opening but it was relatively comfortable working on the platform. 



I'll comment on 10M vs P36 in another thread.

Dan Pfeiffer

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pearson-boats/CAODnOUYewC1o6RWayqkc%3DUEFu09mbp_MLo41H89_AaNUBqJ%2BNQ%40mail.gmail.com.

[Charles Bachmann]

Dan thanks again  for the  picture of this   platform   I think I will need to build one in the spring  .   I am needing to  repair the bow pulpit  on my  Pearson 10 M . have you tackled that  project yet ?

I need repair the  aftermost foot section on the port side , it  has come loose and to be  rebuilt  .

 

Do you have any  thoughts  on rebuilding  the bow pulpit  uprights ?

 

 

 

 

From: pearso...@googlegroups.com <pearso...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Dan Pfeiffer
Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2021 1:20 PM
To: pearso...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [pearson ] 10 M Windlass?

 

The overhead work in the forepeak was a challenge but not so bad after I made a platform so I could slide in to the space on my back.   It was a bit of a puzzle figuring out to get my shoulders and arms through the opening but it was relatively comfortable working on the platform. 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pearson-boats/48788ba0ae1743355b9a6aa7a86417b7%40pfeiffer.net.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Thanks.  A couple note on the patform.  At the front it us cut to fit the vee of the bow and has a notch cut out for the center rib.  I shove it all the way forward so it's supported at the front.  The top is sanded very smooth so I can slide on it.   And at the aft end I put a big radius on the 2x parts after struggling to keep from scraping my back on the corners when getting out. 

Don't quite understand what your issue is with the pulpit base.  Got a photo?    If you're talking about an issue with the deck that is balsa cored where the pulpit mounts and needs to be de-cored and epoxy filled for best strength and water resistance.  The balsa tapers at the outboard edge.  You can see that at the right edge of this photo cross-section right ahead of the fwd stanchion base.

For the SS part of the pulpit that would likely need some welding if it has come apart. 


Dan Pfeiffer

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Thanks.  A couple notes on the platform.  At the front it is cut to fit the vee of the bow and has a notch cut out for the center rib.  I shove it all the way forward so it's supported at the front.  The top is sanded very smooth so I can slide on it.   And at the aft end I put a big radius on the 2x parts after struggling to keep from scraping my back on the corners when getting out. 

Don't quite understand what your issue is with the pulpit base.  Got a photo?    If you're talking about an issue with the deck that is balsa cored where the pulpit mounts and needs to be de-cored and epoxy filled for best strength and water resistance.  The balsa tapers at the outboard edge.  You can see that at the right edge of this photo cross-section right ahead of the fwd stanchion base.

For the SS part of the pulpit that would likely need some welding if it has come apart. 


Dan Pfeiffer

On 2021-11-28 3:08 pm, Charles Bachmann wrote:

[Charles Bachmann]

Ye it’s the deck section  ,  I did not receive the  picture  .  

 

From: pearso...@googlegroups.com <pearso...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Dan Pfeiffer
Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2021 3:27 PM
To: pearso...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [pearson ] 10 M Windlass?

 

Thanks.  A couple notes on the platform.  At the front it is cut to fit the vee of the bow and has a notch cut out for the center rib.  I shove it all the way forward so it's supported at the front.  The top is sanded very smooth so I can slide on it.   And at the aft end I put a big radius on the 2x parts after struggling to keep from scraping my back on the corners when getting out. 

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "pearson-boats" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to pearson-boat...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pearson-boats/13b15783267281d355fb3e55ffe42aba%40pfeiffer.net.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pearson-boats/BLAPR19MB437219AB27D21A59ADC80AA08A659%40BLAPR19MB4372.namprd19.prod.outlook.com.

[Michael Weeks]

Yes this is a great picture. I was taking out some through decks on the bow and having a hell of a time. This group is a good resource!

On Nov 28, 2021, at 2:45 PM, Charles Bachmann <Cbach...@outlook.com> wrote:



To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pearson-boats/BLAPR19MB437219AB27D21A59ADC80AA08A659%40BLAPR19MB4372.namprd19.prod.outlook.com.

[Charles Bachmann]

Thanks  , just wondering  what holds it together , just that small bead of 5200 ?   Also , I need to replace  about  6 feet of rub rail  around the  Bow of my 10 M

Is it available for sale ?

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pearson-boats/20f89f6a47d8905736250a26a8cf14cb%40pfeiffer.net.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

The 10M deck is set on the hull with 5200 adhesive between the flanges, then screwed together along the flange, then the joint is tabbed over on the inside.  The quality of this tabbing varies depending mostly on how hard it was to access.   The tabbing is all secondary done after both the deck and hull layups.


The rub rail used to be available from Taco Marine.  There are two parts.  The is a white plastic strip that may be held in place with screws along the flange?  And then a vinyl part that goes over that.   I think this is the same shape but in black:
https://tacomarine.com/rub-rail-flexible-vinyl-v11-3161

I do not know if is still available in white.  Ask Taco.  It used to be.  If they say no ask them if you got together a half dozen orders would they make some?   I wouldn't mind replacing mine.   There may be others also interested?   The rub rail on the 10M would be about 75 feet?

Installing this is reported to be a pretty tough job that should be done on a good hot day and may involve warming up the rub rail in a vat of hot water and probably careful use of a heat gun.  Start at the bow in the middle of the rub rail and work aft on both sides. 

Replacing a section would need a couple splices of some sort.  Or covering over the resulting but joint. 


Dan Pfeiffer

On 2021-11-28 5:38 pm, Charles Bachmann wrote:

Thanks  , just wondering  what holds it together , just that small bead of 5200 ?   Also , I need to replace  about  6 feet of rub rail  around the  Bow of my 10 M

Is it available for sale ?

 

From: pearso...@googlegroups.com <pearso...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Dan Pfeiffer
Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2021 4:10 PM
To: pearso...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [pearson ] 10 M Windlass?

 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pearson-boats/BLAPR19MB4372F806DBE3B803C39347798A659%40BLAPR19MB4372.namprd19.prod.outlook.com.

[Tim Smith]

Dan,

Funny you mention sliding....

Working in my quarter berth often this summer on quadrant sheave repair, I came to favor an old nylon tracksuit top and pants for sliding in and out, and repositioning on the plastic surface in tight space.  The more comfortable I am the more focused and especially patient.

Stay well.

Tim Smith

tbsm...@gmail.com

617-536-1222 D

720-530-2971 C/T

617-933-7606 F

www.linkedin.com/in/tbsmith/

 

 

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "pearson-boats" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to pearson-boat...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pearson-boats/13b15783267281d355fb3e55ffe42aba%40pfeiffer.net.

[Peter McGowan]

I’ve developed a habit of taking the triangular panel that completes the forward berth and stuffing it into the bow as a backboard 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pearson-boats/CACXvQDyxGXatfgkrxQB9aY5DVH7RQ7JhrXFXE40hxfSOxQSGCw%40mail.gmail.com.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

The track suit is a stylish choice.   Being able to work comfortably is really important to the quality.  I tried stuffing cushions and I wasn't able to get to all I needed comfortably and I didn't want to drip epoxy and spread sanding dust on that sort of stuff.  Plus I need room to pass through the tools and other things while working.  For the major glass work I had a helper doing wet-out of the glass strips , rolling them up and passing them to me.  The work I did alone required more in-out. 

Also I had a fan blowing air into the forepeak from one of the access ports in the deck. 


Dan Pfeiffer

[Dan Pfeiffer]

I see the P36 and 10M as fitting into a transition period between the full keel CCA type boats of the 60's and the fin keel boats of the 80's.    The 10M is a little further on that transition than the 36.   The flyer and P37 (racer) are more on the other end with the 28-1, 31-1, and 32 in between.

I have IMS documents for a 10M and for a P36.   The 36 in the document weighs in at 14,734 which is well high of the 13,500 reported displacement.   The 10M in the document is close in line with reported displacement at 12,273.  Has anyone weighed their P36?

They both have LPS at 123 deg (that's pretty good for the type).   The other figures on the reports are quite similar.  Looks like the 10M is a bit stiffer at low angles and the 36 is stiffer at high angles.  Probably the 36 develops more form stability at the higher angles.   The vertical center of gravity is lower on the 10M by a bit and the vertical center of buoyancy is higher.  Those are both better for stability but the difference is small (about an inch).  And there are lots of other very small differences in the numbers you can ponder over.   Overall they are are quite similar by the numbers. 

There are differences in the shapes.  Both are fine forward and the 36 is a bit more slack in the bilges.  There's that form stability difference that comports with the numbers.  I think the 36 is more influenced by the IOR rule of the day with some noticeable pinching in the aft sections.  The stern is narrower than the 10M by a 9"?  And there is some negative curve to the run of the hull aft of the skeg.  That probably adds a bit of drag.   But the 36 is not extreme as IOR influence goes.  I would not be surprised if it gets a little squirrelly down wind in big waves a little sooner than the 10M. 

The keels are a similar but the 36 is more swept with more overall taper.  The 10M is more like the higher efficiency shapes that would come along in the late 70's though still in between.  I don't know what the foil shape of the 36 keel is but the 10M is reasonably close to a NACA 0012 from my measurements.  A good compromise for lift vs drag and also representative of the thinking of this era before the ideas of aerodynamics as applied to keels and rudders had really spread in boat design.  If the foil shapes are similar the 10M keel is a bit better for lift I think and the 10M draft is proportionally deeper.  I like the ballast arrangement on the 36.  It's concentrated lower and there is a better bilge for holding water.  But the longer keel stub needs to be up to the task.  

I don't understand why the 36 ruder extends lower than the skeg.  Maybe they decided it needed a bit more area after committing to the hull mold?  I think that adds some vulnerability to the rudder in a collision or grounding but not a lot.  And I have never seen one of these skeg-rudder pearsons with skeg damage though I am sure it's happened?  The 10M I salvaged in 2015 had grounded on a hard shelf in 3-4 feet of water where it was battered for 24 hrs in 20-25 knots from what I was told.  The keel was torn off and the boat sat on the skeg for the rest of the ordeal.  I don't know how long that was but the skeg came out intact and the rudder was fine and functional.  So the skeg is pretty strong - not like a Kraken but pretty strong.  But if the 36 came to sit on the skeg the rudder would be more vulnerable than the 10M. 

So I see the P36 as part of the evolution from full to fin keel and the 10M is just a little further along that line with a bit less of the IOR influence. 

I am not a boat designer or naval architect.  I am just a hobbyist with a well stocked and well worn bookshelf.  If you want to gain understanding of all this stuff look these books:

Yacht Design Explained by Steve Killing and Doug Hunter
Killing was a designer at C&C back in the 70's and 80's.

Prinicples of Yacht Design by Lars Larsson and Rolf Eliasson

More books here:
http://dan.pfeiffer.net/boat/library.htm

Some info on design ratios here:
http://dan.pfeiffer.net/boat/ratios.htm

Article on IOR rule and stern shape.
http://rbsailing.blogspot.com/2013/07/the-international-offshore-rule-part-1.html



Dan Pfeiffer

On 2021-11-26 10:13 pm, Robert Franklin wrote:

Dan,

 

[Jeff Griglack]

Bob,

I just had a thought about your anchor lifting problem and the long discussion about various other methods to raise your anchor.  You were talking about running the line back to a winch in the cockpit.  How about mounting a regular winch on the fore deck?  You can probably pick one up at a consignment store for a reasonable amount, and there would be no need for wiring.

Just a thought,

Jeff

------------------------------------------------------------------
| Jeff Griglack             "Jabberwocky" P-365 #269

------------------------------------------------------------------
| "Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent"
|                   - Walt Kelly
| 'Years ago my mother used to say to me, she'd say, "In this
| world, Elwood, you must be" – she always called me Elwood –
| "In this world, Elwood, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant."
| Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. You may quote me.'
|               —James Stewart as Elwood P. Dowd
------------------------------------------------------------------

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pearson-boats/CAODnOUY-Jry%2Bm2dh1CtcFwzimsBoP_8BV1i5P0w4okq1AEqe5g%40mail.gmail.com.

[Robert Franklin]

Jeff, 

Thanks for your kindness in keeping me in mind.  Here is what I've done so far. 

The knuckle (the articulating joint) of the 45 CQR is slightly wider in bulk than the same knuckle on the 25 CQR.  As a result the Windline bow roller which I installed a decade ago at considerable effort to back it up solidly given the location and the space restrictions in the forepeak under the deck. has two vertical wings guiding the anchor into place which were too narrow to fit the larger anchor.

Faced with the unwanted option of removing the Windline in favor of a larger model, and with all the potential problems associated with the change, I instead took two large wrenches and carefully bent the roller guide wings open just enough so they would be cleared when the anchor was brought aboard.

Sorry for the narrative detour as the roller/anchor fit was not the point of your question. However without the anchor rolling to the holder, nothing else matters.  Now it seems to roll in with a fit that is just barely big enough to fit. But, it does seem to fit.

Now for the hauling part.  I have actually found I have the strength to just pull the anchor into the roller and settle it into the correct position.  However, this is only the anchor with enough chain to reach the ground with the boat currently on the hard. Will it be significantly more challenging with 20 - 30 feet of chain out? No doubt. The question for me which I can't answer until I try it is, how much more challenging?

My back-up is a two part pulley and rope tackle. It was previously used on my boat to manage adjustable back stays, which are no longer used.

I am not too worried about being able to haul the 45 myself without that mechanical assist provided I use gloves and take my time.  What I worry about is if I am disabled and it becomes necessary for my wife. 71 & 125 lbs to do it. She is worried too. The double pulley arrangement is similar to what you might have for a main sheet control. It is big, beefy and takes 65 feet of 3/8 or 7/16 rope.  It has a cam action cleat, just like you would have on a mainsheet device.  It attaches to the spinnaker pole ring on the mast and is at a perfect angle of pull.

If I am so disable I cannot get to the foredeck to help set up the pulleys, that's bad ... bad enough to call for assistance, either Coast Guard, Boatyard or something like that. At that point there will probably be boaters around who could be hailed on the radio telephone or by dinghy.

If I die aboard, Anne will have to figure it out.  I have confidence she will. I plan to review that circumstance with her to reassure her.

Bob  

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pearson-boats/CAJj5SX%2BBUArxs1NSno7jHhYwGEp1KHMdPFoBX%3DGXWTFj_PG7Sw%40mail.gmail.com.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

>>On 2022-02-26 10:51 pm, Robert Franklin wrote:
>>...
>>...

>>What I worry about is if I am disabled and it becomes necessary for my wife.
>>71 & 125 lbs to do it. She is worried too.

>>...
>>...

>>If I die aboard, Anne will have to figure it out.  I have confidence she will. 
>>I plan to review that circumstance with her to reassure her.
>>
>>
>>Bob  

In this eventuality all she'll need is the number of a reliable windlass salesman.


Dan Pfeiffer

[Alptraveler]

Bob,

We are in a similar pickle as you re pulling our anchor. We are both females, 65+. Our Pearson 31-2 has a very shallow anchor locker, we do NOT have any kind of a windlass; electric or manual, so yanking the anchor requires woman power. On a calm day we take our time, on a windy day is a situation we dread the concept. Some nice ideas and photos via this website to configure my vberth, etc. to accommodate a windlass. Honestly, we are in Michigan and our sailing season is June thru Sept, the cost for a windlass does not surpass other costs that may be more important.....maintenance, bottom paint, updating electrical,etc.

Here is what we came up with:

We have a rode:chain combination. We also have a battery operated-rechargable winch handle which we use for raising the main. Last year we experimented, like you, with many possible options for easily raising the anchor. The most efficient under rougher conditions (for our situation and with what we have available) is to bring the rode back to a winch in the cockpit and use the electric winch handle (×2 speeds for your comfort level) to "assist" bringing up the anchor AFTER the anchor is vertically down from the bow, usually about 20' plus rise from bow to water = 25+'. Our concern was the chain would be running along the deck. We found that the chain didn't present a problem but was trying to problem solve what more we could do if we find the chain started to scratch the gelcoat. We also realized that we would have to reflake the system back into the chain locker, not a big deal.

The above is just a thought with what you may have in your toolbox for your wife (angle drill). We love our portable electric windlass, WinchMate, it has been a heart saver (no pun, my boat partner actually had heart valve replacement after we noticed the labored breathing after raising the main). As this discussion continues we will update if our procedure needs any tweaking. Ideally, it would be great if we had a windlass but we are not encouraged by the responses we get from the boatyard re how impossible ( impossible translates to $$$ if we want to be persistent) the task is. We are 5 hrs from the boat during the winter, 4 in the summer.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pearson-boats/CAODnOUYCuc%2BOfjnSLDMjx2oFNc4n6Z%3D9sJ7%2Bi1kE8KLbyv4sPA%40mail.gmail.com.

[Robert Franklin]

Alptraveler,

What anchor are you using?

Bob

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pearson-boats/CADrSpboqc-ogKpQEb4v2YUyMchLpM3m3z9bHXqsgV5DmJbrbYQ%40mail.gmail.com.

[Alptraveler]

Delta, that performs well in The Great Lakes area, Fortress as our backup anchor. I can't remember the wt but we did go 1 size up from recommended wt.

I misquoted....WinchRite, not WinchMate. Many use a.right angle drill and buy the adaptor bit. Wrist issues can occur if it jerks. 

I am curious tho, I can't seem to figure out the image of hooking up a block and tackle to the mast for a rode-chain combination. How? Do you you run a prusik on the rode and move it as the prusik reaches the pulley? Do you use a rode capture device? Do you have a rough draft as to what that would look like? I could not find any image or video to give me a visual. I am an ice and rock climber and the only thing I can image is what we would use for rescues if someone can not climb the ice or if we need to self ascend.....a slow process.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pearson-boats/CAODnOUZYjdojQ9i8RrfPMK5qTC4qdS6bX9i5J4HERttwQz5CRg%40mail.gmail.com.

[Robert Franklin]

I have not actually tried my idea as yet, so I cannot comment reliably on how well it will work.  My approach is always to reduce complexity and go with simplicity. I considered the idea you tried of winching the anchor from the cockpit genoa winch, but discarded the idea as unwieldy and a little complicated. I also considered the problem of scraping the deck with that approach.

Let me try to explain my idea better.

Start by taking a standard mainsheet pulley assembly with a multi sheave block at the end of the boom and another at the traveler.  Take that type of assembly with snap hooks on both ends sized correctly to hook onto a spinnaker pole ring on the mast on one end and into the anchor chain on the other end.

The chain will usually be long enough so that you have pulled all the rope rode onto the deck and are dealing only with chain. Thus, with the anchor directly below the bow you are presented with chain aft of the roller.

Hook one pulley to the mast ring and the other to the chain.  Because of the short distance from the mast to the roller relative to the amount of chain from the roller to the seabed, you will have to repeat the pulling process two or three times, I am guessing.

However, with two people, one at the helm and the other at the bow you can get underway, clearing the anchorage under motor to avoid any other anchored boat while taking your time in deeper water to pull the anchor fully and secure it.

Like most innovative and untested ideas, I expect the devil will be in the details. Primarily, the detail I anticipate are a way to attach to the chain, but also detach easily and resecure it while the chain is under tension from the weight of the anchor. The anchor hanging below the boat will need to be secured temporarily while you do this. I haven't thought this part of the problem through as yet. I think proceeding slowly is important.

As Dan has commented, the multi part rope needed for a multi part pulley system will result in a lot of rope on the deck. I plan to take my time and stow it after the anchor is up and secure. This is not as sexy as a windlass that stows the rope automatically with the push of a button, but who cares? You are looking for a solution, not hoots and whistles of admiration from the rest of the anchorage.

I think this system will work mechanically, if not aesthetically. The angle of pull should be about perfect. The amount of strength needed should be about the same as trimming your main sheet, which is done without a winch or windlass.

A windlass on a 31 foot boat is silly in my opinion, but considered when the anchor is heavier than it needs to be. It may be that you have gone with an anchor too heavy for your boat, but I know to suggest such a thing will be viewed on this forum as blasphemy! Besides, it is too late and too expensive to downsize. I am still curious about the weight of your anchor.

When I had a Pearson 30 for a number of years I used a 25# CQR with just about 100 percent success. This included being run down by a 35 foot motor cruiser which tangled my anchor rode and sat on me for a while in a gale at midnight. It all depends on the bottom, more than the anchor as I see it. Some bottoms are just not anchorable.

Sorry I do not have the gear available to photo for you but it looks like any lifting tackle that uses pulleys.

Maybe I can find an example online and post it. Sizing the attachments correctly may take some thought, especially how to connect to the chain. If you do not have a spinnaker ring on the front of the mast, just tie onto a halyard cleat and if the idea works well for you consider adding a more permanent point of attachment.

After a lift attempt a couple days ago, I think I may be able to recover my 45# CQR without any mechanical assistance, but it will be at my strength limit. So this remains to be seen when my boat is back in the water. If so, the pulley arrangement is still important as back up for my back.

Let me know if you [or anyone else] have any concerns, I have not considered.

I am completely unfamiliar with Great Lakes bottom conditions. Is there any sand?

Bob Franklin

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pearson-boats/CADrSpbr4qBDgG6hT6MkXhfj6cSjwJ8y5B-X6mjYxfzVBiSLASA%40mail.gmail.com.

[Guy Johnson]

Bob;

you could use a chain hook to grab the chain. 

Here's two examples.

A fixed length piece of rope with a chain hook on the end could be used to hold the chain whil you reposition the block and tackle. 

Could you use a simple piece of rope with a hook and the winch on your mast to raise the chain and anchor?

Guy

Sent from Outlook

---

From: pearso...@googlegroups.com <pearso...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Robert Franklin <robertm...@gmail.com>

Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2022 11:20 AM

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pearson-boats/CAODnOUZ2vscXAy9XUKMxQ6QLLcWPgFZsmt22SeDt3EYS%2BtaZGw%40mail.gmail.com.

[Alptraveler]

Delta=22#'s

The point of our creativity is not for ideal conditions but those times when we are in a blow and need to get outa Dodge. Not to diminish the strength of females but the truth is, generally we are just not as strong and leverages are our friends. I was actually thinking of all leverages for your wife should you personally have a back or shoulder situation while on a trip. Again, being a climber we consider all options while on ice or rock.

Hooking an anchor system(as we call it in climbing) around my mast without a spinnaker pole eye is the least of my concerns. That can be done by using a sling, a clove hitch, girth hitching, etc. We do have an extra mainsheet pulley system which we use to raise and lower our dinghy motor off the stern pulpit... both ends have a quick release. Again, unless you can get mechanical leverage which allows you to run you actual anchor line thru it the only method I can visualize is rigging the system as we call it in rescue is a z-pull method. This can be time consuming, but I may be missing a better technique???

So, for us, 2 shoulder reconstructions, 1 back surgery and a heart valve replacement later(sports injuries taking their tolls) we are into simplicity and to expedite the task. We even tried to hook a separate 6ml line to the chain and winch that up from the cockpit as the 2nd person guided the rode-chain into the locker. That was a great concept but was a huge bust. The line wrapped itself around the system like a candy cane. I suppose I could try that system again but bring the line back to the cockpit rt from the get go in attempt to prohibit the candy can affect???? My concern there would be the line somehow snagging my keel,prop or rudder. I just want something clean and simple.

Option 2:

1. Captain motor up to the anchor and 1st mate flakes the rode into the locker

2. As the system becomes vertical at the bow(Ave 25' of water bottom to bow @ 30' chain)- 1st mate does a quick chain hook, she brings the rode bk to the  cockpit winch and wraps it.

3. 1st mate returns to the bow while the captain remains near the helm but is able to operate the electric winch handle to bring up the heavy parts of the system.....anchor,chain and any gunk that is on the anchor.

4. Once all is up the captain can motor out of Anchorage while the 1st mate secures the system for travel and flakes the chain into the locker and closes shop til the next anchorage.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pearson-boats/CAODnOUZ2vscXAy9XUKMxQ6QLLcWPgFZsmt22SeDt3EYS%2BtaZGw%40mail.gmail.com.

[Robert Franklin]

Thanks, Guy.  I am going to think about the chain hook, but maybe your suggestion of using the winch (halyard winch) on the mast is something I need to consider as it eliminates the need for the chain hook and rope and it eliminates the pulley system.

What troubles me is that makes sense and I can't imagine I did not consider it. Did I and discard it for some reason. It seems to follow my general principle of simplicity.

Oh, it just occurred to me why I rejected the winch on the mast approach and yet I need to rethink my rejection of it.

I believe I was concerned it would require too much force to be able to use the rather small halyard winch for direct pull on the anchor.  But, maybe not.

What do you think?

Bob

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pearson-boats/MN2PR03MB46544C7FD9D8DED40E15D7DCBC009%40MN2PR03MB4654.namprd03.prod.outlook.com.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Your rather small halyard winch is 8:1.  Your pulley rig was 2:1?  So the winch will have 4x the pulling force or take 1/4 the effort.  Or if it is the 4:1 mainsheet tackle the winch will have 2x the power.  And with the 4:1 tackle you'll have 70 feet of line to deal with.  Bigger plus to the winch might be that there is less line to deal with as there is no line purchase involved.  Could be just 20 feet of line.   Another advantage with the winch is you can hand-over-hand the line on the winch at 1:1 until it gets heavy then switch to the winch handle when needed (just like you do raising a sail).  And it is easy to cleat off.   You could also go forward with the tail of the pull line if need be to clear a foul or set a chain stopper (might need 30 feet of line to do that).  Seems better all around. It makes sense to me to use the main halyard winch.  That would be free any time I had an anchor down.  The jib halyard winch is always occupied with the roller furling sail halyard.  

You need a chain stopper - works like a ratchet letting you pull the chain in but not letting it go back out when you release the line.
https://www.defender.com/product3.jsp?path=-1|2276108|2276124|2226887|2276131|2276136&id=934473


PROCESS USING MAST WINCH
Pull up anchor rope until end of chain is in chain stopper (you could probably use the mast winch on the anchor rope?),
stow the anchor rope down the hawspipe except the last 14 feet
   (because it has to go back to the mast with the end of the chain),
connect pull line with chain hook to the anchor chain on the up side of the chain stopper,
pull that over the winch (using handle as needed) for the 14 feet until the chain is at the winch,
stow that 14 feet of anchor rope down the hawspipe (chain stopper will hold chain),
re-set line with chain hook to the chain just up from the stopper,
pull that over the winch (using handle as needed) for the 14 feet, 
stow the first 14 feet of chain down the hawspipe,
repeat until all the chain is onboard.

The length of pull will actually be a bit shorter depending on how far aft of the stem the chain stopper has to be located. 

The winch works a lot like a proper windlass would with the added fuss of the pull line and line hook and having to re-set on the chain every 14 feet (distance to mast) because you can't run the chain over the winch like you can with a proper windlass.   Still more effort than a windlass and more things to go wrong and likely to make a mess on the deck all the way to the mast.  But better and a lot faster I think than a block and tackle mess which will be especially fussy when you're letting it back out for the next pull.  I would hate to be motoring along out of a crowded anchorage with an anchor hanging down 15 or 20 feet in the water while I was fussing on deck with 60 feet of tangled line. 


I think your general rule of simplicity should have lead you to a windlass a long time ago.  It may not be the simplest to install (though it's not hard) but it is by far the simplest solution to your problem in operation which is what really matters I think.  

I think a windlass on a 31 foot boat is a fine idea.  It may be a bit more of a challenge to install on a P31-2 with the anchor locker but with that problem solved it would be a very handy bit of gear if you do a lot of anchoring.   In the mean time the 31-2 crew might look into a Fortress aluminum anchor?   Much lighter and easier to handle. 


Here's an ebay listing for a manual windlass like the Anchorman.  A bit pricey at at $860.  I would offer $650 or so? 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/294739887955?hash=item449fddc753:g:lxUAAOSwfSFh5kB-



There's lots of sand on Great Lakes bottoms but the places you really want to go are rocky. 


Dan Pfeiffer

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Your rather small halyard winch is 8:1.  Your pulley rig was 2:1?  So the winch will have 4x the pulling force or take 1/4 the effort.  Or if it is the 4:1 mainsheet tackle the winch will have 2x the power.  And with the 4:1 tackle you'll have 70 feet of line to deal with.  Bigger plus to the winch might be that there is less line to deal with as there is no line purchase involved.  Could be just 20 feet of line.   Another advantage with the winch is you can hand-over-hand the line on the winch at 1:1 until it gets heavy then switch to the winch handle when needed (just like you do raising a sail).  And it is easy to cleat off.   You could also go forward with the tail of the pull line if need be to clear a foul or set a chain stopper (might need 30 feet of line to do that).  Seems better all around. It makes sense to me to use the main halyard winch.  That would be free any time I had an anchor down.  The jib halyard winch is always occupied with the roller furling sail halyard.  

You need a chain stopper - works like a ratchet letting you pull the chain in but not letting it go back out when you release the line.
https://www.defender.com/product3.jsp?path=-1|2276108|2276124|2226887|2276131|2276136&id=934473


PROCESS USING MAST WINCH
Pull up anchor rope until end of chain is in chain stopper (you could probably use the mast winch on the anchor rope?),
stow the anchor rope down the hawspipe except the last 14 feet
   (because it has to go back to the mast with the end of the chain),
connect pull line with chain hook to the anchor chain on the up side of the chain stopper,
pull that over the winch (using handle as needed) for the 14 feet until the chain is at the winch,
stow that 14 feet of anchor rope down the hawspipe (chain stopper will hold chain),
re-set line with chain hook to the chain just up from the stopper,
pull that over the winch (using handle as needed) for the 14 feet, 
stow the first 14 feet of chain down the hawspipe,
repeat until all the chain is onboard.

The length of pull will actually be a bit shorter depending on how far aft of the stem the chain stopper has to be located. 

The winch works a lot like a proper windlass would with the added fuss of the pull line and line hook and having to re-set on the chain every 14 feet (distance to mast) because you can't run the chain over the winch like you can with a proper windlass.   Still more effort than a windlass and more things to go wrong and likely to make a mess on the deck all the way to the mast.  But better and a lot faster I think than a block and tackle mess which will be especially fussy when you're letting it back out for the next pull.  I would hate to be motoring along out of a crowded anchorage with an anchor hanging down 15 or 20 feet in the water while I was fussing on deck with 60 feet of tangled line. 


I think your general rule of simplicity should have lead you to a windlass a long time ago.  It may not be the simplest to install (though it's not hard) but it is by far the simplest solution to your problem in operation which is what really matters I think.  

I think a windlass on a 31 foot boat is a fine idea.  It may be a bit more of a challenge to install on a P31-2 with the anchor locker but with that problem solved it would be a very handy bit of gear if you do a lot of anchoring.   In the mean time the 31-2 crew might look into a Fortress aluminum anchor?   Much lighter and easier to handle. 


Here's an ebay listing for a manual windlass like the Anchorman.  A bit pricey at at $860.  I would offer $650 or so? 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/294739887955?hash=item449fddc753:g:lxUAAOSwfSFh5kB-



There's lots of sand on Great Lakes bottoms but the places you really want to go are rocky. 


Dan Pfeiffer

On 2022-02-27 10:25 pm, Robert Franklin wrote:

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pearson-boats/CAODnOUbCxQznQ0EsAyq9NHqtXL5_UsuE-%3Dxvq2xL8Ro%2BzBpuYA%40mail.gmail.com.

[Guy Johnson]

Dan suggestion to use a chain stopper make a lot of sense. I would let you pull a couple of links at a time and rest in-between your efforts. 

I also think switching to your backup fortress as your primary anchor makes a lot of sense. 

For both Bob's P36 and Alptraveler's P31-2. 

My primary anchor is a Danforth hi-tensile 12H, that's right 12 lbs. 

We sail in the same area as Bob. 

Guy

Puffin 10M #6

Sent from Outlook

---

From: pearso...@googlegroups.com <pearso...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Dan Pfeiffer <d...@pfeiffer.net>
Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2022 11:45 PM

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "pearson-boats" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to pearson-boat...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pearson-boats/4a05e0b57194779884aed6cf8a7875b2%40pfeiffer.net.

[Bill Robart]

I also used a Danforth 12H on my P-33. I also carried a 20H as a storm anchor The equivalent Fortress anchors would be even lighter.

To lighten the load even more you could reduce the amount of chain. For coastal use in normal weather a 6-10 foot length of chain would do. For heavier conditions more scope could  replace the longer chain. 

The real advantage of the chain is its weight which keeps the pull on the anchor as horizontal as possible with less scope and its resistance to chafe. Most full time cruisers love all chain for those reasons. For weekenders nylon is likely adequate as long as the bottom conditions are soft. Where coral or rock is on or near the bottom chain is necessary.

I know boat length chain is recommended now but that assumes the crew’s  the ability to handle it safely. Age/strength has to be taken into consideration. 

I don’t want to bash the CQR type anchors but they are notorious for dragging under overload conditions. On more than one occasion I’ve been rafted behind a plow anchor that’s plowed the bottom until Danforth back up anchors took over. On one occasion on my old Ericsson 25 on a three boat raft the anchor put out to to keep the raft from swinging, a Danforth 8S, ended up holding the raft after the wind shifted 180 degrees. The primary anchor was a Danforth 20H. 

The supposed weakness of the Danforth style anchor is its tendency to not reset when the wind shifts radically. I have not had that experience but others have.

Bill

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pearson-boats/MN2PR03MB4654F9DED25BD94F544EA427BC019%40MN2PR03MB4654.namprd03.prod.outlook.com.

[Dave Cole]

If you have a 45 lb anchor out there I would consider how much chain you really need.   Chain adds a lot of weight to an already heavy anchor.  

Warning..  if you have an 8:1 advantage and you are pulling at near right angles to your mast and attempting to break your anchor free, you could be putting some serious stress on the mast which could be bad.  It wouldn't be hard to develop 400+ lbs of pull at the mast winch.   Attach a battery powered right angle drill and it could be a lot more than 400 lbs!

If you are just trying to retrieve the anchor then this is not an issue.  

Dave

10M #26

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pearson-boats/MN2PR03MB4654F9DED25BD94F544EA427BC019%40MN2PR03MB4654.namprd03.prod.outlook.com.

[Robert Franklin]

The chain stopper is great idea until you consider the angle and force on the chain.  How do you get the chain into a stopper at deck level when the chain will lift off the deck right from its attachment to the anchor? If you slack the chain the anchor will drop.

I am skeptical that retrieving a 45 # anchor using the mast as a staging point could come anywhere near the force that would have any effect on the mast. The mast on the P36, like those on the 10M and on other Pearsons is very robust. But I am interested in hearing more on the possibility of bending. While, the spinnaker ring is about 4 feet off the mast opening, I still think it would take a considerable level of violent force to compromise the mast at that point.

I thought attaching the anchor rode to the mast to prepare for a hurricane is standard procedure? 

I find I am able to man-handle the anchor from the hard to the bow and into the roller.  How much more weight would 20 feet of additional chain add when I am anchored at that depth. That may be the tipping point for my strength.

I like the idea of reducing the length of chain which Guy has recommended a couple times.  In our So. New England cruising area chain does not have the importance it has in a coral bottom.

If there were 12 feet of chain instead of the 25 feet I currently have attached to the CQR, you could avoid all the chain problems, pulley, chain hook, chain stopper and just go to the main halyard winch to bring the anchor up20 feet. There would be some chain on deck but short of the winch. This would require some careful measuring before any chain was cut. I definitely will reflect on the mostly rope approach.

I followed a thread a year ago on Cruiser's Forum where several very experienced cruisers questioned the benefit of chain weight in lowering the angle of pull compared to the benefit elasticity of three strand nylon rope provided.

There is space at the bottom of the mast where I could mount a "windlass type winch with a combination rope/chain gypsy.  But with a moslty rope rode the same thing could be accomplished with the winch that is already there.

All these ideas have one thing in common when compared to the standard deck mounted windlass which is, you better not be in a hurry.

So, maybe just off about 15 feet of chain and give it a try. That certainly fits with my philosophy of less is more. Or, just leave everything as is and use a chain hook attached to a separate piece of rope to pull the last 15 feet of chain on deck using the main halyard winch.

Bob Franklin

  

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pearson-boats/CAD5jJo1d7Lm3_rDTUdZTLweLd7vkJ1N4sEmcCmJ_e9kYsebqxw%40mail.gmail.com.

[Dave Cole]

There was an article in Practical Sailor ( I think ) a while ago talking about how using a lot of chain is really not necessary.  

A Google search may find it.  

Retrieving the anchor isn't going to hurt anything on the mast.  However if you are cranking on the winch and find the anchor solidly stuck, are you going to stop cranking or pull it tight?   50 lbs on the winch handle is 400 lbs of pull at 8:1.  I could easily put 100+ lbs on the winch handle which is 800+ lbs at a right angle to the center line of the mast.  Then a wave comes along and raises the bow, putting even more force on the mast.   1600+ lbs is not out of the question.

Dave

10M #26

 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pearson-boats/CAODnOUbAkwdZMRLKt2QeNiEKrKKW%2BXfswmrN6upYJj0UFdaXYg%40mail.gmail.com.

[Guy Johnson]

Bob;

you'll see the chain stopper has a removable pin, you feed the anchor line through the chain stopper before you start hauling the anchor. 

Guy

Sent from Outlook

---

From: pearso...@googlegroups.com <pearso...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Dave Cole <dave...@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, February 28, 2022 2:20 PM

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pearson-boats/CAD5jJo00CNRe8ZOf6KmkwpAdkWAA7Vqp3tC39-iv06zrJHNMHA%40mail.gmail.com.

[Robert Franklin]

Guy et als

How about this?  I buy two chain grabbers. One attached to the end of a 15 foot length of rope, that being the "J" dimension on my P36.  A second one on a short length cleated to the mast. Using the long one winch the anchor up after the boat is brought directly above the anchor). Use the second to temporarily take the tension off the first grab. Then repeat, one or two times as needed.

This eliminates the multi purchase pulley system and relies on the halyard winch for lifting power.

Bob

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pearson-boats/MN2PR03MB4654F6D1EDBC5C9C331A9BD9BC019%40MN2PR03MB4654.namprd03.prod.outlook.com.

[Guy Johnson]

Bob;

Yes that will work. 

Or you could install a chain stopper and have the ability to stop the chain while pulling up by hand with no extra handling required. 

Please try using your Fortress as your primary anchor this upcoming season. 

Guy

Puffin 10M #6

Sent from Outlook

---

From: pearso...@googlegroups.com <pearso...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Robert Franklin <robertm...@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 1, 2022 12:49 PM

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pearson-boats/CAODnOUarEiAXhM1rWpEs3NCp4tTd_c5QM1Foe8vS10N3rgMNAg%40mail.gmail.com.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Good deal on a windlass?

https://www.defender.com/product3.jsp?path=-1|2276108|2276145|2276147&id=3264983#

[Dave Cole]

Whoa...... that's one of those newfangled electric ones....  ;-) 

However, the price does seem right!  

Compared to what bottom paint is going for these days, that seems cheap.   I'm suffering from sticker shock. 

The paint I have been using.... the  "Less expensive, economical" Blue Water 45% copper bottom paint is going for about $200 per gallon right now!

Fortunately, I still have a gallon saved from prior years.  So I'm going to attempt a "touch up job" this year as I did last year.

Dave

10M #26

On Wed, Mar 2, 2022 at 10:53 AM Dan Pfeiffer <d...@pfeiffer.net> wrote:

Good deal on a windlass?

https://www.defender.com/product3.jsp?path=-1|2276108|2276145|2276147&id=3264983#

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "pearson-boats" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to pearson-boat...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pearson-boats/ac529f2c3ea83581e9727cdd5bada5d4%40pfeiffer.net.

[david.l...@gmail.com]

¼ inch G4 or BBB chain up to ½ in line

 

From: pearso...@googlegroups.com <pearso...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Dave Cole
Sent: Wednesday, March 2, 2022 11:13 AM
To: pearso...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [pearson ] 10 M Windlass?

 

Whoa...... that's one of those newfangled electric ones....  ;-) 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pearson-boats/CAD5jJo2fXHT%3DgY%2BxWdr0V5v_B0snNT_rfUpVuZzGLNi3qb_26g%40mail.gmail.com.