PHRF Rating for P26

[Justin Henderson]

Does anyone know if the roller furler was Standard Equipment for the P26?

I'm using a bypass sail and am wondering if in going to get dinged with a -3 to the rating for doing so. See screenshot below, from PHRF-NE handicap adjustment document. 

Thanks, Justin

[Bob Maxwell]

A roller furler was not standard on the P26.  If you don't use one, you won't get dinged, but if you do use one, you'll get the credit.

Bob

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[Dan Pfeiffer]

Roller furling not standard on P26. Typically  if you have RF you should get +3 over base.  if you have only one dacron RF sail you should get another +3.  Your RF sails must have UV covers to be considered for the RF credits.  If you fly a sail on the foil that does not roll up that is considered the same as a racing headfoil (eg TuffLuff) and you will be back to the base rating.

These are pretty standard PHRF rules but your club rules may differ.


Dan Pfeiffer

[Jeff Griglack]

Dan,

Quick question on this, I have two roller furler sails, which roll up, but do not have uv sewn onto the sails.  How would this count with PHRF.  I'm not racing my boat, but I'm curious.

------------------------------------------------------------------
| Jeff Griglack             "Jabberwocky" P-365 #269

------------------------------------------------------------------
| "Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent"
|                   - Walt Kelly
| 'Years ago my mother used to say to me, she'd say, "In this
| world, Elwood, you must be" – she always called me Elwood –
| "In this world, Elwood, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant."
| Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. You may quote me.'
|               —James Stewart as Elwood P. Dowd
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[Bob Maxwell]

I was a fleet governor for PHRF-NE for 14+ years.  PHRF-NE covers 23 fleets from Buzzard's Bay into Canada.  There isn't any rule in that region about UV shields on roller furling sails. There is a somewhat vague clause that says "Special roller furling sails are not allowed". The intent was to ban exotic sails pretending to be general purpose sails. In my time as a governor, that clause never came up. That said, each fleet has its own handicapper.  It's possible an individual handicapper could use lack of a UV cover as part of a criteria for determining "special roller furling sails". But if they did and if the skipper objected, it would come before the governors and that didn't happen during my tenure.

We always had at least one RF sail on the boat without a UV shield and used it.

Bob

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[Peter Trunfio]

I race my 10M on L.I. Sound, governed by the Yacht Racing Association of Long Island Sound (YRALIS).

For years they have had a +3 credit for “above deck” roller-furling…I guess the idea is that with an above deck roller-furler, your headsail won’t be “deck-swept.”

This year, however, they introduced a new “Cruising Headsail Configuration” (+6) credit.

But you can’t have both. If you have a Cruising Headsail…on an above deck roller-furler, you give up the +3 roller-furler only credit…and take the +6 Cruising Headsail credit.

The Cruising Headsail credit is based on sail material alone (not whether you have a UV cover or not…which I assume someone along the way was using as a “proxy” for cruising headsails):

7. Roller Furling

A three (3) second credit will be given, if requested, for having headsails set on an above-deck roller furling system. In order to obtain the credit, the furling system must be fully functional and in use whenever a headsail is hoisted. All headsails (except storm sails, spinnaker staysails, spinnakers and Free Flying Headsails) must be set using the furling system and must be able to be furled using the system. Sail changes are allowed. Sails may also be dropped and re-hoisted.

8. Cruising Headsail Configuration

8.1 A six (6) second credit will be given, if requested and in lieu of the Roller Furling adjustment, for using a single cruising headsail, set on a fully functional above-deck roller furling system across a wide range of sailing conditions. To qualify for this adjustment, the following criteria must be met:

(a) the sail must be constructed of a woven polyester with no exotic fiber content (aramid, spectra, carbon, ultra-pe, and similar). Laminates or other hi-tech constructions do not qualify under this definition.

(b) the sail must be commonly used for both cruising and racing, and be stored on the furling system when not in use.

(c) The sail must be equipped with roller-reefing reinforcements and be of a design suitable for partially furled operation in strong winds

(d) In very strong winds, the cruising headsail may be dropped or furled and replaced with a heavy weather headsail or staysail. The replacement Heavy Weather Headsail must be no larger than that prescribed by the World Sailing Offshore Special Regulations for the Heavy Weather Headsail, section 4.26.2(a)i.

PMT

s/v Annandale

Pearson 10M #66

City Island, NY

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PMT

Peter M. Trunfio

+1.917.640.6450 (c)

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Depends on your local PHRF rules.  Mine (PHRF-LE) require RF sails to have sewn-on UV covers.  RF gets you +3.  Having only one RF sail gets you another +3.  Base rating assumes no RF. 

Of course it's all pretty bogus.  The +3 is arbitrary.  Should probably be a percentage of the base rating?  A +3 to a J35 for RF is a a lot more valuable than a +3 for a P26 (4.1% vs 1.4%) .  Yet the rule applies the same to both.   The most successful PHRF racers are the ones with the best legal minds. 


Dan Pfeiffer

[Jeff Griglack]

About the "legal minds," I have found the same thing.  I used to be racing my P30 in the same class with a J29 and an Echells 22.  On Monday nights, I got the opportunity to watch the 2 of them race each other, from a distance (a distance far greater than the PHRF difference). :)

------------------------------------------------------------------
| Jeff Griglack             "Jabberwocky" P-365 #269

------------------------------------------------------------------
| "Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent"
|                   - Walt Kelly
| 'Years ago my mother used to say to me, she'd say, "In this
| world, Elwood, you must be" – she always called me Elwood –
| "In this world, Elwood, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant."
| Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. You may quote me.'
|               —James Stewart as Elwood P. Dowd
------------------------------------------------------------------

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[Dan Pfeiffer]

I think large ranges in ratings within a fleet are problematic.  A 30 or 40 point spread seems reasonable.  But, around here anyway, fleets have gotten fairly thin.  I race in a fleet that ranges from 108 to 195 or so.  That's one boat at 108 and the next (me) at 164 (jam ratings).  So it's a reasonable range with one outlier mucking it up.  But it's what we are stuck with. 

I am not serious about the racing and started doing it a couple years ago to learn how to get the most out of my jib boom rig.  I only use the 85% sail on the boom and suffer greatly racing in light air especially with chop.  I am competitive when it pipes up over 14 or so when the workload of the heavy #1 others are still flying gives me great advantage.   In 18 to 20 I am very competitive especially down wind with the jib boom.  Actually, downwind in light air I am OK.  I can keep up with the 108 rated boat (Evelyn 32) in 5-8 dead down (jam).  It's upwind where I suffer in light to moderate conditions. 

But I will give up time for things like a good photo opportunity and I race with the bimini.  My racing motto is "Comfort before speed".


Dan Pfeiffer

[Bob Maxwell]

Agreed. I'm not aware of any rating rule that can handle broad rating ranges in the same fleet. Sport boats are also problematic. There's no way to balance boats that sometimes plane with those that don't. 

Bon

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