Mast Issues - P35 - What Next?

[Kevin O’Brien]

We had intended to depart from Boston for the Bahamas in a few weeks. In preparation, and given my considerable concerns about the work we had done when we first bought the boat, I I paid New England Yacht Rigging for a full inspection last week. 

They found a huge number of issues with the rigging work done, but the most critical was that the mast was apparently dropped onto its spreaders - likely when the boat was with the "rigger" we paid to replace the standing rigging in 2020. We also learned that he undersized all of the new standing rigging, installed a mis-sized roller furler on the headstay, failed to secure the lower shrouds, bent every swaged fitting he installed, re-used a cracked stem head fitting, and more. 

The mast itself is deformed (dented in) in at the spreader, sufficiently damaged that NEYR was concerned about catastrophic failure while offshore. They formally condemned the mast in their final report, and suggest that it needs replacing.

We're waiting on the estimate, but we're now considering going with a new Selden mast, new standing rigging, a new boom, and adding a vang. 

The boat is a heavily refit 1974 Pearson 35. The motor is new, the wiring is new, the electronics are all new, including new radar, AIS, redundant VHF, forward scanning sonar, an oversized hydraulic ram AP, a new Maxprop folding prop, a powerful new windlass, an oversized Rocna anchor on 200’ of 3/8” chain, large new primary and secondary winches, new sails from North (including a triple reefed, reinforced, fully battened main), new upholstery, a galley setup the way we like, a new composting head, a 2000W Mastervolt pure sine wave inverter / charger, a large, professionally wired 810ah LiFePO4 battery system, a solar arch ready to go on over the winter with new panels, Starlink, a new life raft, heavy jack line padeyes in the right places, a new dinghy and motor, and more.

I'm leaning towards replacing the rig, and continuing to chip away at her. My rationale here is that $30k-$50k more work on a boat I known intimately well is more sensible than buying a ~$75k boat with unknown problems, but before we pull the trigger, I'm curious what others think. 

We're planning to cruise coastally next summer in New England, then take the ICW south next fall, spend the winter in the Bahamas, and keep sailing for however long it's fun. 

Would you cut your losses, or keep restoring the current boat?

--

Kevin O'Brien
Email: kevin.mor...@gmail.com

[Guy Johnson]

Kevin;

 Mass Marine part in Quincy, MA has salvaged several Pearsons. They might have a mast for you. 

Guy

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From: pearso...@googlegroups.com <pearso...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Kevin O’Brien <kevin.mor...@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 8, 2024 1:04 PM
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Subject: [pearson ] Mast Issues - P35 - What Next?

 

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[Jeff Griglack]

There's also a place in Salem that had salvaged a couple of Pearsons. I can't remember the name of the place though.

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[Kevin O’Brien]

Thanks, Guy. 

We have debated this a bit, but we are disinclined to go with either a sleeved repair or a used mast here - the logic being that if we do this, especially given everything else we've done on the boat, we'd go with a new mast. I want new sheaves, to switch to internally routed reefing lines, and also the simple fact that we'd end up with a known quantity in something new.

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[Guy Johnson]

And a new mast would let you resize the rig if that appeals to you. Maybe a little shorter boom and taller mast?

Guy

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From: pearso...@googlegroups.com <pearso...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Kevin O’Brien <kevin.mor...@gmail.com>

Sent: Tuesday, October 8, 2024 1:27 PM
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Subject: Re: [pearson ] Mast Issues - P35 - What Next?

 

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[David Lidrbauch]

Kevin,

That's a very disappointing reveal - thankfully you found it before heading out.

I own SeaWings a 1969 P35 #106.

Considering everything you've done and how well you know the boat, I'd probably replace the mast and rig as well.
So - the additional question comes up - do you merely replace the deck-stepped mast or do you convert to a keel stepped.  Maybe a shortened P10M ?
Or do you go nuts and get a carbon fiber mast ....

I expect the answers to those questions depend a lot on how long it's going to take to complete the rig refit as well as budget.

FWIW
I'm converting my original 16 foot long roller reefing boom to a slab reefing boom - trying to find a 15.5 - 16 foot replacement boom so I don't have to change the sheeting angle.
I'm replacing the main with a full batten, two deep reefs, sail-pack main cover.  As you described, also looking to add a vang.

Need to make a run to Mass Marine in Quincy - Let me know if you have a boom source suggestion?
thanks and best of luck with the upgrade.

-David Lidrbauch
Sea Wings P35 #106

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[Dan Pfeiffer]

Have you surveyed the rest of the boat?  I would look VERY carefully at the mast compression post and where it sits on the hull at the bottom.   And I would look very carefully at the state of all the structural tabbing of bulkheads, floors, etc.  That is all secondary bonding and subject to delamination from years of use and your boat is 50 yrs old. 

You have an opportunity with a new Selden rig from scratch to go lighter and taller and power that P35 up a bit for better performance.  Nothing radical but maybe a 15% improvement?  I'd give that some consideration if you go down that path.  Though that would mean new sails but you can wait on that and use what you have for now.  Just a thought. 

If I were re-rigging my 10M with a new mast that was lighter (and it would pretty much have to be compared to what Pearson used), I might add 4 or 5 feet to it. 

Dan Pfeiffer

[Guy Johnson]

The place in Salem on Bridge St closed a couple of years ago. 

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Subject: Re: [pearson ] Mast Issues - P35 - What Next?

 

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[Guy Johnson]

Marine Speculator, was that the name?

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[Kevin O’Brien]

Dan - we replaced the compression block with a laminated G10 block, resolving that issue. The primary bulkhead tabbing remains intact. Smaller issues exist under the locker below the settee, but that is not structural; I plan to replace that bulkhead and retab it next year. The floors are solid; I inspected all of the bilge when I epoxy painted it this year. 

There is some water intrusion near the centerboard pin, but it never rises above a few inches. I plan to grind and reglass that area this winter.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Sounds like you are on top of the potential issues with the hull.  That makes your decision easier, or maybe harder?   What is the cost of a rig?  Even if you find a salvaged mast your probably going to spend 1/3 of new to refresh it?  Well, maybe 1/4?  Do you know the weight of the OEM rig?  Can you go a bit lighter and taller?  Very intriguing project with great possibilities. 

Dan Pfeiffer

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[Kevin O’Brien]

We expect to spend between $30k and $45k on the job, in total - just a mast + rigging would be on the lower end, but I'm looking at replacing the boom and adding a vang, as well.

I hadn't considered going taller, but as mentioned, I expect a new Selden rig to be lighter!

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[Dan Pfeiffer]

The P35 rig is not quite as over-built as the 10M (&36) but it is stout.  Some weight savings seem likely.  I think I would start with a rig of the same weight and see what the height difference would be. 

Dan Pfeiffer

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[Dave Cole]

The mast damage sounds bad, but have you considered making oversize stainless brackets for your spreaders to cover the dents possibly?  Then attach with an array of rivets?  

Or tig weld on diamond shaped plates over the side of the mast at the spreader attach points?

I understand most masts are 6061 extrusions.  Definitely weldable.

The mast may not be workable with your existing brackets.  

Do you have pictures of the damage?

Dave 

10M #26

[JimR]

I'm not in favor of publishing bashing companies but it would be nice to know who did the shoddy work so the group can avoid using them.  Maybe just their location?

[Kevin O’Brien]

Likewise, I am hesitant (as we may also pursue other action here). This is a rigging / yacht service "company" in Quincy, MA.

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[Dave Cole]

If you're in love with the P35 and you plan on keeping it for years, I might go with a new rig.

If not, Id look for a used mast or repair.

But keep in mind its 50 years old and you likely wont get your money back.  A lot of it depends on how much $30k means to you.  If your stock portfolio just rose $30k in value today, it might not mean much.  

Dave

10M #26

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[Peter Trunfio]

Pouring money into 50 year old boats (and cars) never makes financial sense...unless it's a rare Ferrari or McQueen Bullitt car.

But...if you care about the boat, she makes you happy, serves you sailing needs, and you can afford it...then go for it.

As you say, it beats starting over.

The devil yo know and all...

PMT

S/V Annandale

1974 Pearson 10M

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[David Lidrbauch]

Irrational passion
It's what gets us up each morning and through each day and night.

Don't even try to justify ...

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[Dave Cole]

I agree.  I might use this issue to pursue a 40+ foot boat.  

Pearson made a 53 footer.  😄

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[JimR]

Thanks Kevin.  One more thing I thought of last night - have you checked your boat for the issues with the keel and centerboard that Beau and Brandy found on their P35 a couple of years ago? (https://www.youtube.com/@BeauAndBrandy)  Not sure if this is a common problem on the 35's or it was limited to their boat.

Best,

Jim

[Kevin O’Brien]

I suspect we do have a similar issue. They had some fairly significant delam in their keel; we might, but I plan to at the very least drill some exploratory holes and see if we have water in the keel, and if so find where the weak spots are.

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[David Lidrbauch]

Good idea to tap those cavities to check for trapped water.

Mine had previous damage forward of the CB trunk from P.O. grounding.
The repair was not great and I found dripping water from the area one spring.

Drilled a lot of holes as well as ripped out the previous FG repair down to solid hull.
AFter drying out, used layers biAx and filled west system and pressure with memory foam to keep the amount of resin to a minimum.
Faired and finished the hull as part of a much larger improvement project.

I noted in the videos from B&B, that their sumps for the CB pivot were not well sealed  - that's at least one spot water can migrate down into the lower areas around the lead ballast.  Mine was pretty well sealed to the exposed lead - but i don't trust different materials to retain a good connection, so I added layers across all seams and any other suspect spots and then filled smooth with fairing-filled west systems and then a few barrier coats over the whole area.

Hopefully I've found and sealed all the risky areas and that cavity remains dry. Doesn't take much freeze/thaw for trapped water to break things open.


cheers,
-David L

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