Grab rails (redux)
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Jeff Griglack
Mar 23, 2021, 4:51:26 PM3/23/21
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As I mentioned before, I am replacing the forward, cabin top, broken, teak grab rails with stainless steel ones. The old rails were 42" and the new ones, which are standard off-the-shelf, are 35" long.
I like them, and would like to replace the rear ones as well. However, the rear ones are matched with ones inside the cabin with long bolts. I would replace the exterior 67" rail with one 35" and one 25". Then I would have to bolt going down, from the deck, into the rails in the cabin. Has anybody (except Dan*) dealt with this?
Thanks,
Jeff
* Except Dan because I know Dan's solution, and, while ingenious, it is not practical for me. (http://dan.pfeiffer.net/10m/handrails.htm).
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| Jeff Griglack "Jabberwocky" P-365 #269
| Jeff Griglack "Jabberwocky" P-365 #269
------------------------------------------------------------------
| "Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent"
| - Walt Kelly
| 'Years ago my mother used to say to me, she'd say, "In this
| world, Elwood, you must be" – she always called me Elwood –
| "In this world, Elwood, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant."
| Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. You may quote me.'
| —James Stewart as Elwood P. Dowd
------------------------------------------------------------------
| "Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent"
| - Walt Kelly
| 'Years ago my mother used to say to me, she'd say, "In this
| world, Elwood, you must be" – she always called me Elwood –
| "In this world, Elwood, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant."
| Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. You may quote me.'
| —James Stewart as Elwood P. Dowd
------------------------------------------------------------------
Dan Pfeiffer
Mar 23, 2021, 5:29:34 PM3/23/21
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Ha. I wouldn't say my solution has been all that practical for me either. I would do it a bit differently a second time.
Will your inside also be SS? You can do much longer spans with SS. Like 3x.
Dan Pfeiffer
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Jeff Griglack
Mar 23, 2021, 8:14:43 PM3/23/21
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No, I was planning to keep the existing, wooden rails inside the boat. The rails that I am using have a 3/8" x 16 studs coming from the bottom of the pads. They do make matching rails with threaded holes, but I don't see how I could bolt the studs into the matching rails. Besides, since they were never exposed to the weather and were not sanded and re-varnished over the years, the interior ones are not as worn as the exterior ones.
On the foreword ones, I am reusing the rear-most hole from the old rails for the new ones. I filled all the rest of the holes and drilled a new one for the forward stud. Then I'll countersink the holes and mount with butyl rubber. For the aft rails, I figured I have to offset the outside rails from the holes for the inside ones.
------------------------------------------------------------------
| Jeff Griglack "Jabberwocky" P-365 #269
| Jeff Griglack "Jabberwocky" P-365 #269
------------------------------------------------------------------
| "Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent"
| - Walt Kelly
| 'Years ago my mother used to say to me, she'd say, "In this
| world, Elwood, you must be" – she always called me Elwood –
| "In this world, Elwood, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant."
| Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. You may quote me.'
| —James Stewart as Elwood P. Dowd
------------------------------------------------------------------
| "Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent"
| - Walt Kelly
| 'Years ago my mother used to say to me, she'd say, "In this
| world, Elwood, you must be" – she always called me Elwood –
| "In this world, Elwood, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant."
| Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. You may quote me.'
| —James Stewart as Elwood P. Dowd
------------------------------------------------------------------
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pearson-boats/f6f6b4edd8919c715caa3fe73d6faa27%40pfeiffer.net.
Guy Johnson
Mar 24, 2021, 8:34:38 AM3/24/21
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I replaced my exterior teak rails with stainless, two 24" rails over the main cabin and one 12" forward.
These stainless rails have studs that are through the cabin top. I've found a 12" stainless rail with through holes that I can get over the studs to give an interior hand hold in the head. I haven't found rails that match the 23" stud spacing on the 24" rails
on the cabin top. Still looking.
I may re-install my teak rails in the main cabin interior.
Guy
Puffin 10M #6
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From: pearso...@googlegroups.com <pearso...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Jeff Griglack <grig...@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2021 8:14 PM
To: pearso...@googlegroups.com <pearso...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [pearson ] Grab rails (redux)
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2021 8:14 PM
To: pearso...@googlegroups.com <pearso...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [pearson ] Grab rails (redux)
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Jeff Griglack
Mar 24, 2021, 9:26:07 AM3/24/21
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So, if you replace the teak ones in the cabin, how would you attach them? The way I figure it, there are two ways to go. Either bolt down from above or from below. If from above, I would replace the existing screws with hex bolts and fender washers. If from below, I would use fender washers and acorn nuts on deck. EIther one has the potential to be a knuckle buster when you grab the exterior rails (with the bolts for the interior rails lying beneath the exterior ones).
I would like to have things lie flush with the deck, but I don't see how to do that and properly attach the interior rails. I want the interior ones to be functional.
Jeff
------------------------------------------------------------------
| Jeff Griglack "Jabberwocky" P-365 #269
| Jeff Griglack "Jabberwocky" P-365 #269
------------------------------------------------------------------
| "Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent"
| - Walt Kelly
| 'Years ago my mother used to say to me, she'd say, "In this
| world, Elwood, you must be" – she always called me Elwood –
| "In this world, Elwood, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant."
| Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. You may quote me.'
| —James Stewart as Elwood P. Dowd
------------------------------------------------------------------
| "Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent"
| - Walt Kelly
| 'Years ago my mother used to say to me, she'd say, "In this
| world, Elwood, you must be" – she always called me Elwood –
| "In this world, Elwood, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant."
| Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. You may quote me.'
| —James Stewart as Elwood P. Dowd
------------------------------------------------------------------
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david.l...@gmail.com
Mar 24, 2021, 9:42:37 AM3/24/21
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How do you feel about barrel nuts? They lie as flush as is possible in the deck surface and you screw into them from below.
Tricky part is 1) to get the screw/bolt length just right to engage enough threads vs too long and they bottom out; 2) aligning axially so it’s easy to start the screw into the barrel. It’s a blind operation from below and can be maddening.
You typically see this used inside smaller racing boats to secure the sail tracks on deck and leave the saloon ceiling smooth/flush.
-DaveL
1969 P35 #106
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Dan Pfeiffer
Mar 24, 2021, 10:06:29 AM3/24/21
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Here are a few options using the same size screws (10-32) as the original mounts.
These are inserts you would put in the overhead. I would open the existing holes
https://www.mcmaster.com/94165A231/
T-nuts.
https://www.mcmaster.com/90973A101/
https://www.mcmaster.com/90860A107/
Screws
https://www.mcmaster.com/screws/thread-size~10-32/material~stainless-steel/material~18-8-stainless-steel/material~304-stainless-steel/material~316-stainless-steel/
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Guy Johnson
Mar 24, 2021, 10:15:53 AM3/24/21
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If I re-install the interior teak grab rails, I will probably use finish washers and flat head bolts installed from the outside.
I do like the idea of using the threaded inserts and will look into them. That would allow sealing of the exterior holes in the cabin top.
From: pearso...@googlegroups.com <pearso...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Dan Pfeiffer <d...@pfeiffer.net>
Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2021 10:06 AM
Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2021 10:06 AM
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Dan Pfeiffer
Mar 24, 2021, 10:25:31 AM3/24/21
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I sent that by accident before I was done. I'll explain more later. No time now...
Basically inserts from below set in epoxy and use a waxed screw to align.
T-nuts or weldnuts from above in hole recessed enough to patch over with epoxy fill. I would probably use the t-nuts with prongs but I might bend the prongs down a bit and set them on epoxy. They will still hold well. The weldnuts might crack loose and spin but you could bugger up the edge of the flange with a file for some teeth to grab. In fact that might be better than the t-nuts?
Lots of choices of screws. OEM was 10-32. You could go to 1/4" I suppose for some added strength.
Dan Pfeiffer
david.l...@gmail.com
Mar 24, 2021, 10:32:05 AM3/24/21
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Here’s a link to various ¼-20 options – not cheap but thankfully you don’t need many dozen.
-DaveL
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Jeff Griglack
Mar 24, 2021, 10:45:21 AM3/24/21
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I have used T nuts, but they need to have points dig into the wood to prevent spinning. I don't think barrel nuts solve this problem. The weld nuts are interesting because they spread the load better. They also have some with a non-round base (https://www.mcmaster.com/90572A300/ ) that would prevent turning, though you could drill holes in the round ones to allow material to squish through*.
With the round ones, I could use a Forstner bit to insert them into the deck. With the non-round ones, I could use a router and template to cut an exact hole for them and then glass them in.
Interesting ideas.
Jeff
* They make a version with a base designed to be glued into plastic, but they also have a wider and shorter threaded bolt.
------------------------------------------------------------------
| Jeff Griglack "Jabberwocky" P-365 #269
| Jeff Griglack "Jabberwocky" P-365 #269
------------------------------------------------------------------
| "Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent"
| - Walt Kelly
| 'Years ago my mother used to say to me, she'd say, "In this
| world, Elwood, you must be" – she always called me Elwood –
| "In this world, Elwood, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant."
| Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. You may quote me.'
| —James Stewart as Elwood P. Dowd
------------------------------------------------------------------
| "Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent"
| - Walt Kelly
| 'Years ago my mother used to say to me, she'd say, "In this
| world, Elwood, you must be" – she always called me Elwood –
| "In this world, Elwood, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant."
| Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. You may quote me.'
| —James Stewart as Elwood P. Dowd
------------------------------------------------------------------
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Dan Pfeiffer
Mar 24, 2021, 10:52:00 AM3/24/21
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Pricey but I like those. You could set them in a counter-bore a bit below surface, install rails and then fill over. Worst case if you need to remove rails is that you dig out the fill on top.
I think the weld-nuts would be about the same but need a bigger counter-bore and don't have a handy slot for a screw driver.
Dan Pfeiffer
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George DuBose
Mar 24, 2021, 11:24:51 AM3/24/21
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On Skylark, I cut teak handrails and then used long bronze wood screws
from the deck down into the interior handrails and up through the cabin
overhead into the handrails on the deck. I didn't want to hassle with
the method that Pearson used originally.
George
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from the deck down into the interior handrails and up through the cabin
overhead into the handrails on the deck. I didn't want to hassle with
the method that Pearson used originally.
George
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George DuBose
Wiedstrasse 16
D-50859 Köln
Germany
Mobile: +49.160.481.1234
Skype: georgedubose or call +1.347.284.6443
Video interview on YouTube:
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Guy Johnson
Mar 24, 2021, 12:55:11 PM3/24/21
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When Dave mentioned barrel fasteners, this is what I thought of.
From: pearso...@googlegroups.com <pearso...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of George DuBose <bo...@george-dubose.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2021 11:24 AM
Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2021 11:24 AM
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> | Jeff Griglack "Jabberwocky" P-365 #269
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> | "Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent"
>>>> | - Walt Kelly
>>>> | 'Years ago my mother used to say to me, she'd say, "In this
>>>> | world, Elwood, you must be" – she always called me Elwood –
>>>> | "In this world, Elwood, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant."
>>>> | Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. You may quote me.'
>>>> | —James Stewart as Elwood P. Dowd
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>>
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Short video of Skylark's vacation:
Password: SkylarkNY
S/V Skylark
Compagnieshaven
Enkhuizen, NL
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Dan Pfeiffer
Mar 24, 2021, 1:31:45 PM3/24/21
to pearso...@googlegroups.com
I think for what Jeff described I would use the weld-nuts. I would cut some notches in the edges of the flange with my grinder. I tried it out on a washer for the photo.
I would cut that counter bore and install the weld nuts in a thickened mash of epoxy that won't drip down the holes. Then I would install the handrails with screws that I have waxed and cut to length (in a previous dry fit). Installing the rails before the epoxy is set will prevent an alignment issue later. After the handrails are in place I would fill in over the tops of the weld-nuts before the mash holding the weld-nuts sets. The wax on the screw threads will make it so you can crack them loos from the epoxy when needed. You will need to paint over the epoxy or it will turn yellow and degrade in the sun.
You could do this with the 10-32 or with 1/4 fasteners. 1/2-20 is about 1.5x as strong as 10-32. 1/4-28 is about 2x.
A 1/4" socket headed cap screw has a head that's about the same diameter as a #10 pan head (about 3/8"). That would fit the same bore in the handrail.
Dan Pfeiffer
I would cut that counter bore and install the weld nuts in a thickened mash of epoxy that won't drip down the holes. Then I would install the handrails with screws that I have waxed and cut to length (in a previous dry fit). Installing the rails before the epoxy is set will prevent an alignment issue later. After the handrails are in place I would fill in over the tops of the weld-nuts before the mash holding the weld-nuts sets. The wax on the screw threads will make it so you can crack them loos from the epoxy when needed. You will need to paint over the epoxy or it will turn yellow and degrade in the sun.
You could do this with the 10-32 or with 1/4 fasteners. 1/2-20 is about 1.5x as strong as 10-32. 1/4-28 is about 2x.
A 1/4" socket headed cap screw has a head that's about the same diameter as a #10 pan head (about 3/8"). That would fit the same bore in the handrail.
Dan Pfeiffer
david.l...@gmail.com
Mar 24, 2021, 2:34:58 PM3/24/21
to pearso...@googlegroups.com
Laughing out loud
IKEA boat!
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Guy Johnson
Mar 24, 2021, 3:11:16 PM3/24/21
to pearso...@googlegroups.com
I just ordered 4, 24" Sea Dog stainless grab rails that hopefully will fit over the exposed studs in the main cabin overhead. I do expect to drill out the holes in the Sea Dog rails to fit the 3/8" studs on the exterior hand rails.
Guy
Sent from Outlook
From: pearso...@googlegroups.com <pearso...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of david.l...@gmail.com <david.l...@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2021 2:34 PM
To: pearso...@googlegroups.com <pearso...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: RE: [pearson ] Grab rails (redux)
Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2021 2:34 PM
To: pearso...@googlegroups.com <pearso...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: RE: [pearson ] Grab rails (redux)
To view this discussion on the web visit
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Dave Cole
Mar 24, 2021, 3:43:43 PM3/24/21
to pearso...@googlegroups.com
I have the same handrail issue everyone else does. I have this on my boat "todo" list as well.
The commercial offerings seem to be lacking. I am thinking of making metal tube handrails that are curved at the ends and simply land onto an oval metal pad and weld the tube to the pad.
Mounting holes would go through the pad beyond the tube attachment.
The interior handrails would mimic the exterior rails. So they would sandwich the cabin top and through bolt the rails, similar to the existing handrails.
I would probably use Nylock stainless nuts inside and just cut the screw off flush. The fastener would be next to the curved tube so it would be somewhat difficult to bang into the nut.
I think I could make and mount these myself.
I could use aluminum for all of this since I'm in fresh waster.
But the same could be done with stainless. The only issue being that 1" stainless tubing is hard to bend sharply without a fancy bender.
Dave
10M #26
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Jeff Griglack
Mar 24, 2021, 3:54:13 PM3/24/21
to pearso...@googlegroups.com
That's what I was thinking of, at first, too. I had looked into these for plasteak grab rails, but decided to go metal instead.
------------------------------------------------------------------
| Jeff Griglack "Jabberwocky" P-365 #269
| Jeff Griglack "Jabberwocky" P-365 #269
------------------------------------------------------------------
| "Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent"
| - Walt Kelly
| 'Years ago my mother used to say to me, she'd say, "In this
| world, Elwood, you must be" – she always called me Elwood –
| "In this world, Elwood, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant."
| Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. You may quote me.'
| —James Stewart as Elwood P. Dowd
------------------------------------------------------------------
| "Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent"
| - Walt Kelly
| 'Years ago my mother used to say to me, she'd say, "In this
| world, Elwood, you must be" – she always called me Elwood –
| "In this world, Elwood, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant."
| Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. You may quote me.'
| —James Stewart as Elwood P. Dowd
------------------------------------------------------------------
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john getz
Mar 24, 2021, 4:48:10 PM3/24/21
to pearso...@googlegroups.com
Has anyone talked to Whitewater in Port Huron? They do excellent OEM pieces for J Boats and others and claim they can match old teak handrails with a stainless version if "you want them to fit without filling any old holes and drilling any new ones." Probably for a price but well done.
John Getz
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Dave Cole
Mar 24, 2021, 6:28:30 PM3/24/21
to pearso...@googlegroups.com
My stern boarding ladder was crushed a few years ago by another boat in the marina.
I asked Whitewater if they could make one up so I wouldn't need to redrill and fill holes.
They wouldn't do it at any price.
The ladder only required 4 holes. Two in each bracket spaced apart X inches.
They were backed up with orders at the time.
I'm sure they could have done it, they simply refused.
I found a used, identical ladder at Mass Marine (I believe that's correct).
Dave
10M #26
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Jeff Griglack
Mar 24, 2021, 6:37:45 PM3/24/21
to pearso...@googlegroups.com
John,
The ones I am installing are Whitewater, but they are off the shelf instead of custom made. There is no need for a stainless steel rail to have towers every 13 inches. These are a maximum length of 35.25 inches with no intermediate towers. Custom rails will probably more than quadruple the price. The other thing is that I really like the wood interior rails, where upkeep is easier and I have less worry about them wearing down over time.
Thanks,
Jeff
------------------------------------------------------------------
| Jeff Griglack "Jabberwocky" P-365 #269
| Jeff Griglack "Jabberwocky" P-365 #269
------------------------------------------------------------------
| "Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent"
| - Walt Kelly
| 'Years ago my mother used to say to me, she'd say, "In this
| world, Elwood, you must be" – she always called me Elwood –
| "In this world, Elwood, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant."
| Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. You may quote me.'
| —James Stewart as Elwood P. Dowd
------------------------------------------------------------------
| "Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent"
| - Walt Kelly
| 'Years ago my mother used to say to me, she'd say, "In this
| world, Elwood, you must be" – she always called me Elwood –
| "In this world, Elwood, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant."
| Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. You may quote me.'
| —James Stewart as Elwood P. Dowd
------------------------------------------------------------------
On Wed, Mar 24, 2021 at 4:48 PM john getz <jwg...@gmail.com> wrote:
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john getz
Mar 24, 2021, 7:21:50 PM3/24/21
to pearso...@googlegroups.com
I'm a little puzzled by White Water in California and Florida and White Water in Michigan. They don't have links to one another and don't list like products. But I'm pretty sure the MI factory made the J Boat grab rails that look like the threaded/no stud rounded version. Ah well, I'm putting this job off for another time.
And yeah, you're absolutely right, Jeff, there's no need for towers every 13.5". My neighboring J 109 has three attachments for a 6' rail.
John
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Dave Cole
Mar 24, 2021, 8:17:57 PM3/24/21
to pearso...@googlegroups.com
Whitewater in Michigan is not a big shop. But it's very much a niche market.
The stuff they make lasts almost forever if it's not mangled.
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Jeff Griglack
Mar 24, 2021, 10:01:22 PM3/24/21
to pearso...@googlegroups.com
It looks like the White Water I am buying my rails from is located in California and Florida and is not associated with the Whitewater in Michigan. Companies are incorporated by the states, and different companies, incorporated in different states, can have the same names. Even so, don't rush out and incorporate Dupont in the state where you live unless you want to get sued. :)
------------------------------------------------------------------
| Jeff Griglack "Jabberwocky" P-365 #269
| Jeff Griglack "Jabberwocky" P-365 #269
------------------------------------------------------------------
| "Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent"
| - Walt Kelly
| 'Years ago my mother used to say to me, she'd say, "In this
| world, Elwood, you must be" – she always called me Elwood –
| "In this world, Elwood, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant."
| Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. You may quote me.'
| —James Stewart as Elwood P. Dowd
------------------------------------------------------------------
| "Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent"
| - Walt Kelly
| 'Years ago my mother used to say to me, she'd say, "In this
| world, Elwood, you must be" – she always called me Elwood –
| "In this world, Elwood, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant."
| Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. You may quote me.'
| —James Stewart as Elwood P. Dowd
------------------------------------------------------------------
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pearson-boats/CAFsJ%3DNCvL31PoEJpgrCX1y5P6t8C-gpWWMv8qwB24mJ-202kAQ%40mail.gmail.com.
Robert Franklin
Mar 25, 2021, 1:07:52 PM3/25/21
to pearso...@googlegroups.com
Dave,
Is Mass Marine the salvage place in Quincy? I've never been and never been able to confirm by telephone when or if they are open for business.
I am looking for a Windline CRM-1 bow roller for my - new to me - 35# CQR plow. The bow roller retail price leans in the direction of $300. The plow cost me $100, so it's hard for me to reconcile those prices.
I would guess a salvage place might have one at a bearable price.
I would like to avoid a day trip to Warwick where "Marine Consignment" is located. Although just an hour away, it turns into a day trip because once there it's like being trapped in the Lindt Chocolate factory.
First I need to test whether I can lift 35 lbs and another 20 - 30 feet of 3/8ths chain before I switch from my 25 lb to the 35 lb anchor. I do want to avoid the installation of a windlass, even a mechanical one because I would never go electric and admit I needed it.
I also have considered using the main winch on the mast to assist me, if needed. The winch, probably the same for most of us, is offset somewhat from 90 degrees to the center line, so it may kink up more than it will work.
All to be determined.
Even though not exactly a Pearson limited subject, I am taking a chance to be bold and see if anyone with a Pearson has a comment. I'm 5' 8" , 170, strong enough, but not a body builder.
The thing is, the 25# has held well enough for 40 years in most conditions and in some fairly strong winds. Even the 25 lb requires some strength at the bow. I just would like the additional mental comfort of more anchor and more chain.
I have a 25 lb Danforth stored aboard for more extreme challenges, but I've only needed it once. I am fairly tame when it comes to anchoring, watching the weather and predicted conditions.
Bob
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Robert M. Franklin, Esq.
145 Lagrange Street
Chestnut Hill, MA 02467-3047
617 277 5900 Cell
617 277 5901 Fax
email: robertm...@gmail.com
145 Lagrange Street
Chestnut Hill, MA 02467-3047
617 277 5900 Cell
617 277 5901 Fax
email: robertm...@gmail.com
Dave Cole
Mar 25, 2021, 2:07:19 PM3/25/21
to pearso...@googlegroups.com
Yes, Quincy.
Website:
Their website is still up, but I would email them before you drive any distance.
Their general email is: massmar...@gmail.com
They were great to deal with.
At the time Jon said they had parted out several Pearsons.
>>I do want to avoid the installation of a windlass, even a mechanical one because I would never go electric and admit I needed it.
What I would do.... Buy the electric windlass and DON'T admit that you need it! Just tell everyone that you don't want to get "all" of your exercise on the boat!
>>because once there it's like being trapped in the Lindt Chocolate factory.
I have the same problem. Perhaps bring a very small car? Or take a taxi? You'll likely be money ahead. :-)
Dave
10M #26
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Guy Johnson
Mar 25, 2021, 2:10:03 PM3/25/21
to pearso...@googlegroups.com
Bob;
A bow roller makes it easier to haul the anchor, because you can grab the rope and lean back using some of your body weight to list the anchor. It also make it a little easier to rest inbetween pulls.
I find it a lot easier than leaning over the rail and pulling the anchor straight up.
Guy
Sent from Outlook
From: pearso...@googlegroups.com <pearso...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Dave Cole <dave...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2021 2:09 PM
Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2021 2:09 PM
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Robert Franklin
Mar 25, 2021, 2:18:50 PM3/25/21
to pearso...@googlegroups.com
Thanks. Just what I needed, I emailed and will see if he's still around.
Some funny comments. You've revealed yourself as a humorist.
What I read about electric Windlass, just seems way too complicated for the somewhat limiting anchoring I do. Also, I don't ever sail solo.
Bob
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George DuBose
Mar 25, 2021, 3:06:12 PM3/25/21
to pearso...@googlegroups.com
I have a large Windline bow roller that is a tiny bit bent from my
incident with a tugboat's wake in St. Nazaire, France. Anyone with a
hydraulic press could straighten it out. There is also a notch cut in
the left side of the bow roller to let it fit against the forestay
chainplate. You can have it for free, if you just pay the shipping,
probably less than $100.
I mainly replaced it because my insurance company paid for a new one.
I think I told you all about that incident. The international ocean tug
company refused to pay for the damage caused by their excessive wake in
the small harbor at Saint Nazaire.
Skylark wears a 45lb Manson Supreme, a Lewmar V2 windlass, 100 feet of
chain and 200 feet of plaited line for her rode. A windlass is a very
handy thing to have.
George/Skylark
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pearson-boats/CAODnOUY93jyuAP2ovHUJTbsRJowAnvKb-svHY4L%2BY5Tbe3ntWg%40mail.gmail.com.
incident with a tugboat's wake in St. Nazaire, France. Anyone with a
hydraulic press could straighten it out. There is also a notch cut in
the left side of the bow roller to let it fit against the forestay
chainplate. You can have it for free, if you just pay the shipping,
probably less than $100.
I mainly replaced it because my insurance company paid for a new one.
I think I told you all about that incident. The international ocean tug
company refused to pay for the damage caused by their excessive wake in
the small harbor at Saint Nazaire.
Skylark wears a 45lb Manson Supreme, a Lewmar V2 windlass, 100 feet of
chain and 200 feet of plaited line for her rode. A windlass is a very
handy thing to have.
George/Skylark
>>>>> I couldn't imagine how that was going to work :>).
>>>>>
>>>>> Guy
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from Outlook
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Guy
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from Outlook
>>>>>
>>>>>
--
George DuBose
Wiedstrasse 16
D-50859 Köln
Germany
Mobile: +49.160.481.1234
Skype: georgedubose or call +1.347.284.6443
Video interview on YouTube:
George DuBose
Wiedstrasse 16
D-50859 Köln
Germany
Mobile: +49.160.481.1234
Skype: georgedubose or call +1.347.284.6443
Video interview on YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcOxW65Xe10&feature=youtu.be
Personal website:
http://www.george-dubose.com
Galleries:
https://www.rockpaperphoto.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=George+DuBose
http://www.modernrocksgallery.com/george-dubose-photographer
http://www.houseofroulx.com/collections/george-dubose
https://classicrockphotography.jp/?s=George+DuBose
https://www.globalgalleries.org/
https://www.Winterstiftung.org
http://www.artforum-culture-foundation.org/
Personal website:
http://www.george-dubose.com
Galleries:
https://www.rockpaperphoto.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=George+DuBose
http://www.modernrocksgallery.com/george-dubose-photographer
http://www.houseofroulx.com/collections/george-dubose
https://classicrockphotography.jp/?s=George+DuBose
https://www.globalgalleries.org/
https://www.Winterstiftung.org
http://www.artforum-culture-foundation.org/
Short video of Skylark's vacation:
https://vimeo.com/133183259
George DuBose
Mar 25, 2021, 3:23:55 PM3/25/21
to pearso...@googlegroups.com, Bob Franklin
Robert Franklin
Mar 25, 2021, 9:21:24 PM3/25/21
to pearso...@googlegroups.com
I am reluctantly becoming convinced my aging back, arms and everything else would appreciate some mechanical advantages. I am not ready for the leap to electric, but I'm never alone and not in a hurry so a mechanical windlass should work for me.
I'm going to look around at a couple of the local marine consignment stores. These are places where temptation abounds. Guy Johnson said, take a very small car or a taxi and keep the meter running.
Let me do a little research to check out the roller dimensions. 3 inches inside the channel will not fit. Must be 3.5. Otherwise this might work nicely for me.
I'll bet you are excited to be able to get back to Skylark and solve the wobble once and for all. You probably are beginning to think about living forever. After all, who could possibly appreciate Skylark as you do?
My project are satisfying but a little silly. In 1976 I took my one trip east and ended up in London. That's my far east. At Capt Thomas Fowlkes marine chandlery on the outskirts of the City I purchased a Taylor's diesel cabin heater. Somehow I got it back to the U.S., don't recall how. It went onto Arion, but when I purchased the boat back from "Ralph", it was missing. I may have used it once during my first term of ownership, but that was not the point. It looked kinda cool, and lighting the burner was something of an art form. "Oh sure" said Ralph, you can have it back. It's lying somewhere in my basement. I'll dig it out. That was 15 years ago and I could never get it working properly. Finally, after buying a new burner that cost a couple hundred dollars and a lot of fiddling on my workbench at home and then on the boat I fired it up a couple weeks ago. The strange part is I've been walking on a could ever since. My sailing is limited to July and August. How much heat do we need? But that's not the point. If you have something and it's not working properly, how do you sleep at night.
I aligned my engine because Shawn pointed out the stainless propellor shaft was lying on the fiberglass and had a highly polished band indicating that it was rubbing. That kept me away all winter, but once the engine was repositioned, I could right away feel the prop turned more easily.
My next is the anchoring.
I need to wire the engine hour meter so I don't appear to be cheating.
The propane stove works fine, just like a Weber barbecue, but the sniffer that was there needs to be reinstalled and wired.
Stuff like that.
You will chastise me for continuing with the sails that I believe were original with the boat when I acquired it in 1980. Likely original when out molded in 1972.
My sailing is much less ambitious than yours. You are a real sailor. Me? I'm a weekender, not retired and extending to a couple months. Anne does not want to confront sailing challenges and even working at avoiding them, we've had some challenges. Caught in a raging out going tide in Plymouth/Duxbury harbor and dragging anchor off Long Point, P.Town, down below and completely unaware that we were drifting in a strong onshore breeze right towards the big breakwater outside the town pier.
Hope I'm not boring you with these tales. Your boat joints the other P-36 legends. It is interesting how much enthusiasm and publicity attaches to our model. As you have said many times, the lines and the sheer are pretty sweet.
My other favorite, but for the next lifetime when I am 45 years old again, early retired and rich is the Tartan 41. Not rich to afford it, but rich to not have to worry about working. Here is a link. You'll like the looks I think although I'd take it with a shoal keel or centerboard. https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/tartan-41.
Is there a way to easily find out the shipping cost for the Windline?
Bob
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Dan Pfeiffer
Mar 25, 2021, 9:39:47 PM3/25/21
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I have a nice little Anchorman (later Lewmar) manual windlass that is vertical with a drum so about the size of a 45 winch? These are out of production and not easy to find now but you might keep a lookout. There was a version with just the gypsy and no drum. I thought the drum would increase versatility. It is less compact. You can see it in this photo:
http://dan.pfeiffer.net/10m/anchor_windlass_test_fit_01.jpg
I hardly ever anchor these days so it's not even installed. But it will be soon.
I don't think your dream Tartan was ever made with a shoal draft or CB. Still a great S&S sailing design with what is reported to be a most uncomfortable cockpit for cruising. They say to never meet your heroes so maybe you're better off with what the boat is in your mind. If I stood at my dock and popped a paper bag you could here it from the building where those Tartan 41's were built in Grand River, OH.
Dan Pfeiffer
Peter Ogilvie
Mar 25, 2021, 10:25:05 PM3/25/21
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Since you say you normally don’t single hand, would pulling a Tom Sawyer better fit your windlass envy than actually getting one. A little praise of the excellent results of physically hauling in the anchor in overall fitness and back strength might get someone a tad younger to gladly volunteer for the duty. Without an all chain rode a manual windlass is a two person exercise to weigh anchor. One of you to do the physical cranking and the other to pull on the tail of the rode to keep the rope capstan doing its job. Without constant tension on tail of the rode the line will just slip on the drum. Have tried a manual windlass with rope rode single handed and it’s not fun or fast.
Haven’t looked on eBay for an anchor rollers but that’s where I got mine. It’s a Simpson Lawrence designed for a 45# CQR. It’s very heavy duty, long enough extension so the point of the anchor doesn’t try and bite the boat out sailing, the price was right even with shipping and it works with the 15 kilo Manson Supreme that replaced the 35# CQR.
I used to be anti electric windlass till one of the boats we were cruising with pulled in behind the reef where we were anchored. They proceeded to use their 28,000# boat as a dinghy dropping the hook and jumping over the side to look for shells, climbing back aboard and moving the boat a couple hundred yards diving again and repeated four or five times till they were anchored next to us. It’s immoral to be able to weigh a 60# anchor so easily. It’s also easy to use with a rope road if you have a vertical windlass with chain gypsy and rope capstan.
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Jeff Griglack
Mar 26, 2021, 12:02:18 AM3/26/21
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Dan,
It seems to me, with that self tacking boom, you might want to not mount it in the center of the fore deck. Otherwise, it looks good, and it looks like it will save your back.
Bob,
You might be able to find a used, mechanical windless at one of the consignment shops. My P365 has an electric one on it, and I am looking forward to using it. I am looking at installing a remote so I can operate the windless from the helm, that way I can inch the boat forward as I take up the chain. The alternative is to get the boat to move a little forward, sprint to the bow to take up chain, run back, lather, rinse, repeat.
As far as consignment shops, I know that Marine Consignment had a location in Fall River, at one point. It's not listed on their website anymore, but they might have split off. If you call them in Wickford, they might tell you what happened. Also, they will tell you about things they have in stock. Oh, and they answer their phone.
Jeff
------------------------------------------------------------------
| Jeff Griglack "Jabberwocky" P-365 #269
| Jeff Griglack "Jabberwocky" P-365 #269
------------------------------------------------------------------
| "Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent"
| - Walt Kelly
| 'Years ago my mother used to say to me, she'd say, "In this
| world, Elwood, you must be" – she always called me Elwood –
| "In this world, Elwood, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant."
| Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. You may quote me.'
| —James Stewart as Elwood P. Dowd
------------------------------------------------------------------
| "Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent"
| - Walt Kelly
| 'Years ago my mother used to say to me, she'd say, "In this
| world, Elwood, you must be" – she always called me Elwood –
| "In this world, Elwood, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant."
| Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. You may quote me.'
| —James Stewart as Elwood P. Dowd
------------------------------------------------------------------
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Dan Pfeiffer
Mar 26, 2021, 12:44:27 AM3/26/21
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The windlass wants to be where the windlass wants to be (for line leads and such). The jib boom is not an issue with access to things on the foredeck. If needed it can be swung to one side and secured to the rail. But more often it turns out to be a supremely useful hand hold as you move forward. It has been a pleasant surprise in this respect.
Dan Pfeiffer
George DuBose
Mar 26, 2021, 4:26:00 AM3/26/21
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There is a wide 3/4" hard spot in the center of the foredeck that with
sufficient backing it is strong enough for the bow roller, chain lock
and windless to be installed on.
I was towed up the Rhine by a freight ship and although the old gal was
creaking and groaning the whole way, there was no problem with the deck
fittings. Pearson never tabbed the top of the bulkheads, so they tend
to squeak at time when the ship is being stressed.
George
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pearson-boats/CAJj5SXKLebXPKQvK94R4_raOCSk1nwDqhErU173%3DLpsqJVR6WA%40mail.gmail.com.
sufficient backing it is strong enough for the bow roller, chain lock
and windless to be installed on.
I was towed up the Rhine by a freight ship and although the old gal was
creaking and groaning the whole way, there was no problem with the deck
fittings. Pearson never tabbed the top of the bulkheads, so they tend
to squeak at time when the ship is being stressed.
George
Guy Johnson
Mar 26, 2021, 8:19:59 AM3/26/21
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Bob;
I enjoyed your stories.
One of the best improvements I made for Puffin was new sails. Main sail in particular. Our old main was stretched out with too much draft, I didn't realize it until we got the new sail, but that old main was causing excess heal and reducing the ability to point.
A night and day difference.
You said you're not into sailing olympics, a new mail could be transformational, imagine sailing a bit faster with less heal and not getting knocked so far over in the gusts we encounter in Massachusetts Bay.
AutoHelm was another significant improvement.
Guy
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Robert Franklin
Mar 26, 2021, 9:00:32 AM3/26/21
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Dan,
I didn't mean to hijack the rail thread. I thought I was writing to George outside the group, but in a way I am glad because your suggestion of the Anchorman has put me on a good search path.
The photo you included did not show up. I Googled Anchorman Windlass and came up with a Simpson Lawrence product which I think might have morphed into the Lewmar windlass you have. Here is the link I chose although there are several to choose from.
This is the installation manual. The photo shows two options. When I go looking, I think I will try to find the combination chain/rope gypsie because it is slim with a low profile. Does that make sense?
Bob
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Jeff Griglack
Mar 26, 2021, 9:46:27 AM3/26/21
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The problem with the link to the picture was that, for some reason, the link is incomplete. You need to add ".jpg" to the end of the address (when you click on it).
I like the idea of a manual windless. They are less expensive and easier to install than an electric one (you don't have to wire it in). Also, you shouldn't haul the boat to the anchor with an electric windless, but you can do that with a manual one. And they are very useful especially if you aren't single handing.
Jeff
------------------------------------------------------------------
| Jeff Griglack "Jabberwocky" P-365 #269
| Jeff Griglack "Jabberwocky" P-365 #269
------------------------------------------------------------------
| "Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent"
| - Walt Kelly
| 'Years ago my mother used to say to me, she'd say, "In this
| world, Elwood, you must be" – she always called me Elwood –
| "In this world, Elwood, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant."
| Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. You may quote me.'
| —James Stewart as Elwood P. Dowd
------------------------------------------------------------------
| "Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent"
| - Walt Kelly
| 'Years ago my mother used to say to me, she'd say, "In this
| world, Elwood, you must be" – she always called me Elwood –
| "In this world, Elwood, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant."
| Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. You may quote me.'
| —James Stewart as Elwood P. Dowd
------------------------------------------------------------------
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Robert Franklin
Mar 26, 2021, 10:48:55 AM3/26/21
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Peter, Guy, Dan, etc.
I do sincerely apologize that my personal interest in changing my anchoring habits after a 40 year run with the 25#er has taken us into a decidedly general topic. However, at the same time I am exceedingly grateful for the advice which somehow seems to be different and much better than the sometimes rambling threads I read on CF (Cruisers World). I think there is something in the Pearson experience that brings us a similarity of approach. So that's my Prearson connection excuse.
As for windlass, if everyone is willing to continue.
Dan has turned me in the direction of the Anchorman and the combo chain/rode gypsie appeals to me as well as the winch handle instead of a cranking pole. I do not do enough anchoring to worry that the combo wheel will abrade the rope. If that happens ... change rope.
To address Peter's comment about the need to tail the rope, I am guessing the gypsie on the Anchorman operates somewhat like a self tailing winch when the transition from chain to rope occurs. I realize I am somewhat in the "tail wagging the dog" real of decision making because I just recently eliminated the joining shackle by splicing my rope rode directly to the 3/8 chain and I'm proud of the result. I never liked the shackle thimble arrangement to begin with.
The self tailing issue is of course critical, so I am looking forward to Dan's input on that. Also, I would appreciate a comment on my plan to join more chain to my existing chain using a 3/8 chain to chain galvanized connecting link (Home Depot $3). I believe this link is supposed to make the chain to chain transition invisible to the gypsie, but that may be wishful thinking.
Thanks again, everyone.
Bob
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Robert Franklin
Mar 26, 2021, 11:36:00 AM3/26/21
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Peter,
I am going to my boat on the hard later today bringing my 35# CQR. I am going to attach it to my anchor rode and see what it is like picking up the anchor and the chain. I might pile some more chain on the anchor to get a more realistic idea of what strength would be needed in a real life 20 feet of depth situation. I don't expect the pull will be easy, but it is important to do the experiment. As you have suggested, pulling the anchor and chain might be good for me. Up to a point.
What was it about Tom Sawyer? Did he make painting a fence seem like fun? Was that it?
Bob
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Dave Cole
Mar 26, 2021, 1:04:44 PM3/26/21
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>>The self tailing issue is of course critical, so I am looking forward to Dan's input on that. Also, I would appreciate a comment on my plan to join more chain to my existing chain using a 3/8 chain to chain galvanized connecting link (Home Depot $3). I believe this link is supposed to make the chain to chain transition invisible to the gypsie, but that may be wishful thinking. <
I would be really surprised if you could get a chain connecting link through a gypsy without problems. Especially the generic galvanized ones.
I always thought that windlass gypsies were very sensitive to chain dimensions? Am I wrong?
Would it be practical to use a high torque cordless drill to spin a manual windlass or winch in place of an electric windlass?
A number of folks are using Milwaukee Right angle cordless drills now to power manual sheet and halyard winches. The downside is that they cost about $600 right now. But I suspect they will be a lot cheaper in a few years. I have heard of them using the same drill on a winch to raise a crew member in a bosun's chain to the top of the mast. So perhaps that is something to consider now, or in the future.
FWIW, I haven't given up on the anchor ball concept!
I'm going to try it out early this summer. Obviously it is not as flexible as an electric windlass, but it's a lot cheaper, with no installation costs.
Dave
10M #26
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Guy Johnson
Mar 26, 2021, 1:20:41 PM3/26/21
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20' of 3/8" chain weighs about 28 lbs. In 20' of water when you first lift the 35lb CQR off the bottom you'll be hauling 63lbs.
3/8" chain is currently on sale at West Marine for $4.31 a foot. I'd buy one length of chain the length you want and not mess around with connecting links.
Also suggest trying the same experiment on a boat with a bow roller if you can.
Guy
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George DuBose
Mar 26, 2021, 1:40:02 PM3/26/21
to Robert Franklin, pearso...@googlegroups.com
On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 09:19:44 -0400, Robert Franklin wrote:
> When I walk on my cabin sole I get a loud creaking when I step near
> the chart table.
The cabin sole on Skylark wasn't supported from underneath anywhere.
There is a row of wood screws behind the panels under the settees in
the main cabin and these screws are what is holding the sole up. I have
had the starboard screw fail. One of us on this blog cut access holes
in the panel under the settee to access these screws.
Since I have the whole cabin sole cut out, I now have easy access to
the edges of the sole where they meet the settees. I am not going to
try and screw around with this little project. I am going to squirt 3M
5200 in between the sole's edge and the bottom of the panel. Then I am
going to use the 5200 to bond aluminum angle in long lengths to the
underside of the sole's edge where I cut and then put the cutout back
in on top of the lip that I am making with the aluminum.
I will rout a 1" cut in the 3/8" bamboo that covers my original sole
and then lay in 1" strips of the same bamboo, sand it all level, stain
it and then polyurethane it.
Then the portlights...later.
a 3/8 chain to chain galvanized connecting link (Home Depot $3)
OY!!! I wouldn't with a $3 galvanized connecting link on my worst
enemy. Must be made in China and it would be best if you bought a
Wichard product or something of similar quality. $3 I wouldn't be able
to sleep at night...
> When I walk on my cabin sole I get a loud creaking when I step near
> the chart table.
The cabin sole on Skylark wasn't supported from underneath anywhere.
There is a row of wood screws behind the panels under the settees in
the main cabin and these screws are what is holding the sole up. I have
had the starboard screw fail. One of us on this blog cut access holes
in the panel under the settee to access these screws.
Since I have the whole cabin sole cut out, I now have easy access to
the edges of the sole where they meet the settees. I am not going to
try and screw around with this little project. I am going to squirt 3M
5200 in between the sole's edge and the bottom of the panel. Then I am
going to use the 5200 to bond aluminum angle in long lengths to the
underside of the sole's edge where I cut and then put the cutout back
in on top of the lip that I am making with the aluminum.
I will rout a 1" cut in the 3/8" bamboo that covers my original sole
and then lay in 1" strips of the same bamboo, sand it all level, stain
it and then polyurethane it.
Then the portlights...later.
a 3/8 chain to chain galvanized connecting link (Home Depot $3)
enemy. Must be made in China and it would be best if you bought a
Wichard product or something of similar quality. $3 I wouldn't be able
to sleep at night...
Dan Pfeiffer
Mar 26, 2021, 1:59:01 PM3/26/21
to pearso...@googlegroups.com
I have not installed my Anchorman manual windlass so I can not report on how it handles the rode. My understanding is that the gypsy will work on line and chain and there are instructions for splicing them together so theyy will run through. The gypsy on mine is for 5/16 chain, BBB or HT and 1/2 or up to 5/8" rope. The unit could be had with a 3/8 gypsy too but that's a lot of chain for a 33 or 36 foot boat? Details are in the manual:
http://slspares.co.uk/pdf/Website%20Manuals/Instruction%20Manuals/Anchorman%20Manual.pdf
There are certainly those on the list with much more knowledge on ground tackle. It really not something I have gone very deep into.
I will say that I would not consider mounting anything like this to the foredeck without a stout backing under the deck. I would use 5/16 or 3/8 structural fiberglass from McMaster Carr.. And that is a slightly more involved process with the uneven nature of the underside of the deck. But not unmanageable. The reinforcing on centerline is a strip of plywood about 8" wide. Any penetrations through this or the balsa part of the deck should be properly sealed to prevent core damage.
Dan Pfeiffer
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George DuBose
Mar 26, 2021, 2:07:53 PM3/26/21
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A number of folks are using Milwaukee Right angle cordless drills now
to power manual sheet and halyard winches. The downside is that they
cost about $600 right now.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Milwaukee-2807-20-Hole-Hawg-18V-Cordless-1-2-Right-Angle-Drill-V-G/303841547299?_trkparms=aid%3D1110013%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.SIMRXI%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140725133649%26meid%3D2617f8d6aeb948b2959f5e72c096315b%26pid%3D100276%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D8%26mehot%3Dlo%26sd%3D274522188912%26itm%3D303841547299%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2060778%26algv%3DSimRWIWebRoundRobinBlenderWithPromotedSeeds%26brand%3DMilwaukee&_trksid=p2060778.c100276.m3476
to power manual sheet and halyard winches. The downside is that they
cost about $600 right now.
Batteries:
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2047675.m570.l1313&_nkw=M18%E2%84%A2+REDLITHIUM%E2%84%A2+XC5.0+Extended+Capacity+Battery+Pack&_sacat=0
Charger:
https://www.amazon.com/Milwaukee-Replacement-Multi-Voltage-Battery-Charger/dp/B0126TU3CC/ref=pd_bxgy_img_2/132-8535981-0651632?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B0126TU3CC&pd_rd_r=869bf5e3-1b3d-4806-ad7c-eb6f621fd735&pd_rd_w=3VMXF&pd_rd_wg=3jedS&pf_rd_p=f325d01c-4658-4593-be83-3e12ca663f0e&pf_rd_r=0BABZ1HCZQBR0NKG6F8F&psc=1&refRID=0BABZ1HCZQBR0NKG6F8F
Shop around for the batteries and charger, there are wild price
swings..,
Look on eBay, I bought a new one in the States for $250, I think the
two batteries and charger were $100.
I expect this will make life much easier for this old guy...
Peter Ogilvie
Mar 26, 2021, 3:08:43 PM3/26/21
to Google Pearson Group
If your boat is like my ’69 P35, there is center core of plywood that runs from the cabin face to the bow. Assume that it’s there to add strength for a windlass among other things. I chose not to mount the vertical windlass on the center line but offset a foot or so, routed out the core around fasteners and filled with epoxy and made a 3/16” aluminum backing plate larger than the winch footprint.
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Peter Ogilvie
Mar 26, 2021, 4:45:42 PM3/26/21
to Google Pearson Group
The anchorman vertical windlass has been out of production for at least 20 years so finding one will be a major challenge. My boat came with one that I sold on Craig’s List within an hour of posting with several back up buyers so you’ll have to act right quick if one does show up. Never used the windlass so don’t know how well it works with rope but think there will be a problem stripping the line off the gypsy. If the rope is wrapped tightly enough in the jaws to pull any weight it won’t want to come loose easily. Have had issues with the chain hanging up on the electric replacement.
I’d ditch the 3/8” chain and go with 5/16” in any case which would make dead lifting the anchor/chain combo easier. With modern G40 chain strength is not an issue and there has been some dispute whether the extra weight of 3/8” chain makes that much of a difference in holding.
Yes, Tom Sawyer got his friends to paint his aunt’s fence by extolling the virtues of painting,
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Dan Pfeiffer
Mar 26, 2021, 6:54:22 PM3/26/21
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There was some outfit that took these Milwaukee units and repackaged them with an adapter to fit the winch handle socket and tripled the price. I remember asking the guy at the boatshow what they did to the unit to justify the price. He mentioned some mod to the motor to handle the load. I said, you mean handle the load of winding a winch better than hogging 3" diameter holes through 4x12s all day long or some other easy task like that? I think all they did was put on a blue cover with their logo.
Here's an adapter
https://www.thecranker.com/
And another:
http://www.winchbit.com/
There is a 28v version too that reports to run about 2x as long. One person said it could take him up the mast twice on one battery charge.
https://www.milwaukeetool.com/Products/Power-Tools/Drilling/0721-20
I like the handle on the 18V hole hawg:
https://www.milwaukeetool.com/Products/Power-Tools/Drilling/2809-20
It won't run as long or as strong as the 28V unit but if you already have other tools that use that battery it make a lot of sense. You can get it without the battery too if you already have them. If I already had other Milwaukee 18V tools I would get the 18V. If I didn't I would get the 28V. Bonus is you have a very heavy-duty cordless drill on the boat for other jobs.
Dan Pfeiffer
Robert Franklin
Mar 26, 2021, 8:52:59 PM3/26/21
to pearso...@googlegroups.com
Once again, I must be missing the point.
Why would someone bother with this big tool when you can take a winch handle and crank the winch that way? I could understand someone with arthritis in their elbows having difficulty with the rotation of the winch handle but the Milwaukee just seems to me like an unnecessary complication.
As for going up the mast, I'd rather have someone with a winch handle not distracted by the need to keep the drill centered, balanced, etc.
Like I said, what am I missing.
Going up the mast in a nice smooth consistent motion may look sexy, but how many times a year or in a decade does anyone take that trip?
It reminds me of my favorite saying ... "a solution in search of a problem".
Then again, I've never used one so who am I to say?
Bob
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Robert Franklin
Mar 26, 2021, 9:29:47 PM3/26/21
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Peter,
Tom extolled, not the virtues, but the pleasure of painting, if I recall correctly.
Your remarks about 3/8 vs 5/16 come at an interesting moment for me because at my boat this afternoon, I reviewed my two rodes, one of which has a mixture of chain.
The lighter assembly is 1/2" rope to 5/16 chain.
The other, the one I plan to use is 5/8 rope to 3/8 chain then to 5/16 chain, then the CQR. The 5/16 is between the the anchor and the 3/8. I wondered why I did this, then realized I was a genius, somewhat along the lines of your own thinking about weight. So that makes two of us.
Here is how it works. When set the 3/8 chain, heavier than the 5/16, will keep the rode plastered to the bottom. When hauling the 3/8 chain is heavy, but manageable because the anchor remains on the bottom with the 5/16. Then the 5/16 is hauled with the anchor as you advised. The set up has the best of both worlds.
I spliced the rope to the chain in both cases but I joined the chain with shackles. Those are a problem and I will replace them with chain connection links.
I agree with you. The 5/16 is no more likely to break than the 3/8 and 5/16 is what I had available at the time to lengthen the chain.
The gypsie might complain about the different sized links. But I've solved that problem as well.
I am saving that for the next episode. For now I'm just enjoying my escape from criticism for my off-Pearson topic. I don't want to push my luck.
Bob
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Jeff Griglack
Mar 26, 2021, 10:34:58 PM3/26/21
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On Uma, they have started using the electric windless to haul Dan up the mast. On Sailing La Vagabonde, they have an electric winch on the cabin top. I agree with Bob and will be sticking with my manual winches (unless i hit the lottery :) ).
------------------------------------------------------------------
| Jeff Griglack "Jabberwocky" P-365 #269
| Jeff Griglack "Jabberwocky" P-365 #269
------------------------------------------------------------------
| "Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent"
| - Walt Kelly
| 'Years ago my mother used to say to me, she'd say, "In this
| world, Elwood, you must be" – she always called me Elwood –
| "In this world, Elwood, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant."
| Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. You may quote me.'
| —James Stewart as Elwood P. Dowd
------------------------------------------------------------------
| "Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent"
| - Walt Kelly
| 'Years ago my mother used to say to me, she'd say, "In this
| world, Elwood, you must be" – she always called me Elwood –
| "In this world, Elwood, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant."
| Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. You may quote me.'
| —James Stewart as Elwood P. Dowd
------------------------------------------------------------------
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pearson-boats/CAODnOUbrApDvZRG3NSneSbEFCE%2B%3DYOuaUsGC%3DAT75FvjiDg2cA%40mail.gmail.com.
George DuBose
Mar 27, 2021, 11:42:15 AM3/27/21
to pearso...@googlegroups.com
I shopped around and found the lowest prices on a new right angle
drill, batteries and charger and the adaptor between the winch and the
drill.
I am pushing 70 and am not as strong as I used to be.
There are purpose built electric winch handles, eWincher is one, but
OUCH!!! Over two grand.
https://www.ewincher.com/en/accueil/39-ewincher-2.html
I may be old, but I am not rich and not stupid...
George/Skylark
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pearson-boats/CAJj5SXJZLym9SS5vLyZH2mFk2R2YdQjmqq8eDNyZb1AEgmZ45Q%40mail.gmail.com.
drill, batteries and charger and the adaptor between the winch and the
drill.
I am pushing 70 and am not as strong as I used to be.
There are purpose built electric winch handles, eWincher is one, but
OUCH!!! Over two grand.
https://www.ewincher.com/en/accueil/39-ewincher-2.html
I may be old, but I am not rich and not stupid...
George/Skylark
Michael Weeks
Apr 26, 2022, 4:01:53 PM4/26/22
to pearson-boats
Sorry to revive an old thread, but I'm having trouble. I need new handrails, and as y'all know we have a 5 loop handrail that's 13" center to center, 67" in length with a slight curve.
From reading through this thread, it looks like there is no direct replacement. I can't find ANY 13" on center handrails at all. What were the solutions?
James Keszenheimer
Apr 26, 2022, 5:00:28 PM4/26/22
to Pearson Owners Group
Ya, Michael, I need new ones pretty soon too. My consensus of the previous threads was to drill new holes and use either wood or stainless. With stainless tube and cap posts, you can cut the tube to length to match the spacing, but you still may not match the holes unless you use some kind of wood or plastic standoff. I might wait until mine totally break before I suffer through this retrofit.
Let us know what you end up doing.
Jim
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pearson-boats/b008ab49-0c96-4e58-b7a5-9568b3f52be3n%40googlegroups.com.
Ron Buchanan
Apr 26, 2022, 5:11:51 PM4/26/22
to 'Mike Mayer' via pearson-boats
Has anyone looked into talking with Plasteak? Maybe we can make a group order. I’ve been considering these for 10M replacement.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pearson-boats/DE93B41C-0B0B-4FBE-A342-F7B574208F0A%40gmail.com.
Jeff Griglack
Apr 26, 2022, 5:12:09 PM4/26/22
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There are companies out there that will make custom rails for you, but it looks like you can buy them off the shelf at D&R Marine. Look at this: http://www.drmarine.com/proddetail.asp?prod=DR15%2D28
BTW, before I decided to go with stainless rails, I made a pair of 3 loop rails out of some 5/4 teak I had sitting around. If somebody is interested in buying them from me, let me know.
Jeff
------------------------------------------------------------------
| Jeff Griglack "Jabberwocky" P-365 #269
| Jeff Griglack "Jabberwocky" P-365 #269
------------------------------------------------------------------
| "Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent"
| - Walt Kelly
| 'Years ago my mother used to say to me, she'd say, "In this
| world, Elwood, you must be" – she always called me Elwood –
| "In this world, Elwood, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant."
| Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. You may quote me.'
| —James Stewart as Elwood P. Dowd
------------------------------------------------------------------
| "Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent"
| - Walt Kelly
| 'Years ago my mother used to say to me, she'd say, "In this
| world, Elwood, you must be" – she always called me Elwood –
| "In this world, Elwood, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant."
| Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. You may quote me.'
| —James Stewart as Elwood P. Dowd
------------------------------------------------------------------
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pearson-boats/DE93B41C-0B0B-4FBE-A342-F7B574208F0A%40gmail.com.
James Keszenheimer
Apr 26, 2022, 5:14:03 PM4/26/22
to Pearson Owners Group
Hmm, interesting ideas. The down side of replacing them is you have to tear out the headliner right? If that wasn’t the ugly truth I’d buy them off you right away Jeff.
jim
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Dave Cole
Apr 26, 2022, 5:30:51 PM4/26/22
to pearso...@googlegroups.com
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the rear 10M handrails are through bolted to the interior handrails.
Dan has his solution on his website.
I haven't tackled that one yet.
I was thinking of making a jig and bending and welding a set out of rigid aluminum conduit. Teak and stainless might look nicer, but my interior handrails are fine, so I'd like to keep them. Rigid alum conduit is easy to bend with a conduit bender available at all the home stores. Maybe just buying replacement Teak rails is the easiest option. I didn't know anyone was making them.
Dave
10M #26
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pearson-boats/2992AA43-B99B-4DEB-A1C8-4121E7F5250A%40gmail.com.
Jeff Griglack
Apr 26, 2022, 5:41:18 PM4/26/22
to pearso...@googlegroups.com
The 365 has the same arrangement. I replaced the forward rails with stainless because they were broken, but I haven't tackled the thin, aft set of rails yet.
My plan is to mount the exterior rails just a little inboard of the interior rails. At first I thought I would just move the exterior ones slightly aft but the interior and exterior would end up too close to each other that way.
------------------------------------------------------------------
| Jeff Griglack "Jabberwocky" P-365 #269
| Jeff Griglack "Jabberwocky" P-365 #269
------------------------------------------------------------------
| "Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent"
| - Walt Kelly
| 'Years ago my mother used to say to me, she'd say, "In this
| world, Elwood, you must be" – she always called me Elwood –
| "In this world, Elwood, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant."
| Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. You may quote me.'
| —James Stewart as Elwood P. Dowd
------------------------------------------------------------------
| "Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent"
| - Walt Kelly
| 'Years ago my mother used to say to me, she'd say, "In this
| world, Elwood, you must be" – she always called me Elwood –
| "In this world, Elwood, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant."
| Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. You may quote me.'
| —James Stewart as Elwood P. Dowd
------------------------------------------------------------------
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pearson-boats/CAD5jJo3oc_xz61qm%2BF8kFomMw69zxXxKerjK%2BDyoWwfPQmuzcQ%40mail.gmail.com.
Dan Pfeiffer
Apr 26, 2022, 5:59:30 PM4/26/22
to pearso...@googlegroups.com
Correct on mount of 10M interior rails in line and thru-bolted to outer. The short fwd section is just screwed on from below. But at least one screw is buried above headliner over the head. but there's no reason it can't fasten through headliner. And there is no option to drop the headliner to get at what is above it.
My solution was SS rails with loops to match the OEM and coaxial fasteners for the inner rails. Very strong and a bit over-complex to make. Mine also run the full length from aft end of aft OEM to forward end of forward OEM in a single long rail with no gap at the mast area. I have the inconvenience of stepping over the 2" high rail to get to the mast. I also have something firm to plant my foot against when at the mast.
http://dan.pfeiffer.net/10m/handrails.htm
Doing this now I would do the same overall length but I would have less loops. They can be three feet apart with SS. Then I would come up with a different way to fasten the inner rails. Maybe threaded inserts in the overhead.
I bent the SS in place with a ratchet strap to be tacked to the standoff saddle parts. That was easy. No conduit bender needed. I wouldn't consider aluminum.
A friend installed plasteak rails a few years ago. They did not hold up. Splits around fastenings. He switched back to wood. He races so there's more wear/tear.
Dan Pfeiffer
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Michael Weeks
Apr 26, 2022, 6:42:12 PM4/26/22
to pearso...@googlegroups.com
Tes, I saw those DR Marine ones, I called and it was too late. I'm kinda thinking they're out of business, I couldn't check them out on the website plus no one here mentioned them.
I'll let you know. I really like my interior handrails, I'd hate to move or lose them.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pearson-boats/CAJj5SXJACKhMZLN9ngs8gi4S2%3DoH4ZVJzWwSstC1Ffj53cM%3D5Q%40mail.gmail.com.
Tim Smith
Apr 26, 2022, 6:59:38 PM4/26/22
to pearso...@googlegroups.com
I am in Facebook conversation with,
Alfred John Channell
Pearson Yachts Group.
His post:
I have a P-30 with the full size tiller stored below deck. Sounds like I have the same Edison set up as you. I honestly have not thought of what I would do if I lost my steering besides drop the sail and FITFO. Last resort sawzal the pedestal and hook up the tiller. But, my friend and I make the the majority of the tillers and all the teak hand rails for Dr. Marine in my free time so I bet I can figure something out. I’ll look at it this weekend."
Bold text emphasis mine.
He is in the Boston area. His linkedin:
Happy hunting.
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Bob Maxwell
Apr 26, 2022, 7:00:29 PM4/26/22
to pearson-boats
I just went on the DR Marine website. It appears to be operating normally. I was able to look at items, including hand rails and put them in a checkout cart. I don't need anything right now so I didn't place an order.
Bob
On Tue, Apr 26, 2022 at 6:42 PM Michael Weeks <mhilto...@gmail.com> wrote:
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pearson-boats/CAJjUdogqGxqi7aWD_RA2aWUK%3DcRfK5nbd0w8F-An_jD8649OGQ%40mail.gmail.com.
Michael Weeks
Apr 26, 2022, 7:02:13 PM4/26/22
to pearso...@googlegroups.com
That's fantastic, thank you
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pearson-boats/CACXvQDxkdjksMgEeKxBuZZky2gHJC64TRuZWWD6z%3DrRsB_doqA%40mail.gmail.com.
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