10M rudder shoe

[Ron Buchanan]

Appealing to the gurus here. Next project.... based on this pic, is it time to pull the rudder?  No binding, rudder feels tight. Time to start grinding. What is the core of the skeg? The moisture is immediately after the pull. No moisture presently. 

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[George DuBose]

Pulling the rudder means removing the massive bronze shoe. Since the
shoe and related bolts are bronze, it might not be too big of a
problem.I have had a good look at Skylark's rudder shoe and it looks
like a major project. If it ain't broke, don't fix it...

I am pretty sure that Skylark's rudder post is bronze which would lead
me to think that the "fingers" or inner construction of the rudder would
have to be bronze as well.

I'll bet that there is no core in the skeg, I think it's just a massive
buildup of fiberglass.

I know that the keel bolts are bronze and shaped in a "J". The stuffing
box for the rudder post is bronze.

Thank Pearson for using bronze in so many important places. Although
they did use aluminum tubing on my P26 and I had to change it to a
stainless steel rudder post when the original one FELL OFF.

Keep us posted on your progress.

George



--
George DuBose
Paul-Niessen-Strasse 14
D-50969 Cologne, Germany
Mobile: +49.160.481.1234
Skype: georgedubose or call +1.347.284.6443

Video interview on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcOxW65Xe10&feature=youtu.be

Personal website:
http://www.george-dubose.com

Galleries:

https://www.rockpaperphoto.com/browse-by-photographer/george-dubose
http://www.modernrocksgallery.com/george-dubose-photographer
http://www.houseofroulx.com/collections/george-dubose
http://loeildelaphotographie.com/en/2016/04/30/article/159902316/george-dubose/

Short video of Skylark's vacation:
https://vimeo.com/133183259
Password: SkylarkNY

S/V Skylark
Compagnieshaven
Enkhuizen, NL

[Dan Pfeiffer]

I suspect you are just dealing with fairing issues here.  The shoe is an upside down T shape with the upper part forked port/starboard and fastened to the skeg.   The three fasteners are flat head machine screws that go all the way through the skeg and into threaded holes on the opposite face of the flange of the shoe.  I think they are 5/16.  The part below the shoe is just a fairing extension.  It is fastened to the shoe with flathead wood screws that go down from above.  That means the shoe must be removed to service them.  The bottom of the rudder shaft sits in a bronze bushing in the aft end of the shoe.  The bushing is replaceable though I have never done that. 

As George said all the hardware is bronze as it should be below the waterline like this (however on my 10M the keel bolts are SS not bronze).   I think the skeg was hollow when the the hull was pulled from the mold.  I suspect it was filled with a loose mash of resin and filler and then the top was glassed over.  You can see that inside the boat.  It is possible that the cavity was left empty.

I am attaching some pics of the skeg on my 10M before I re-fared it.  I suspect this is what you need to do to be good to go.  There will be a bit of sculpting to do.  I used all epoxy and 404 or 406 filler and got it close but over-sized and faired it back with a grinder.  

If you see any movement of the shoe relative to the skeg I would probably dis-assemble it all and re-fair and re-mount the skeg bedded in thickened epoxy to get a perfect mating surface.  You can wax the skeg surface to keep it from bonding though it might help to have bonding.   The skeg supports the weight of the rudder and that's pretty heavy.   I don't think it's possible to remove the rudder without detaching the shoe.  If I did all this I would also replace the bushing. 


Dan Pfeiffer

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[George DuBose]

Thanks for the photos Dan. The 10M shoe is quite different than a P36's shoe. At least on Skylark P36-1 #58 I probably have some photos buried on my hard drive. I will have a look.

-- 
George DuBose
Paul-Niessen-Strasse 14
D-50969 Cologne, Germany
Mobile: +49.160.481.1234
Skype: georgedubose or call +1.347.284.6443

Video interview on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcOxW65Xe10&feature=youtu.be

Personal website:
http://www.george-dubose.com

Galleries:

www.rockpaperphoto.com/george-dubose
http://www.modernrocksgallery.com/george-dubose-photographer
http://www.houseofroulx.com/collections/george-dubose

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Here are some additional pics of the fairing work I did on the extension on my skeg.  

Dan Pfeiffer

[Ron Buchanan]

I think the grinder will show slight de-lamination. I’m certainly of the school “if it ain’t broke don’t fix it!”  Thanks George!

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From: pearso...@googlegroups.com <pearso...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of George DuBose <bo...@george-dubose.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2018 1:03:46 PM
To: pearso...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [pearson ] 10M rudder shoe

 

[Ron Buchanan]

Dan, as always, your information and detailed pics are SO valuable. Now that I know what I’m looking at, It certainly puts me at ease.

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From: Ron Buchanan <rbuch...@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2018 2:48:07 PM
To: pearso...@googlegroups.com; pearso...@googlegroups.com

[Daniel LeBlond]

Your lower bronze support fitting is worn causing it to impinge the skeg, it is likely the same fitting as on P-323 which I have. Skeg is FRP throughout I think, but definitely at the bottom where 3 large flathead screws fasten through on each side. The support bushing assembly is covered with a pink fairing compound, quite soft in comparison with the fiberglass. Relatively easy to scrape from the bronze and clean up the screws. You may need an impact screwdriver to get the screws loose.

Your upper support is likely not damaged since the rudder shaft packing box helps with loads as well as keeping water out of the boat. The open gap is likely fairing compound that has fallen apart. I never dropped my rudder but removed the bronze shoe and had the worn socket machined and a bronze bushing inserted, local machine shop. The rudder post, stainless steel was still round within reason. Well enough so I left it alone. I blocked up the rudder while the shoe was out. It’s quite heavy, a bottle jack or scissors jack would be helpful. 2006 was a long time ago and my recollection of the details is sketchy.

Good Luck

Captain Dan, “Great Escape” 1977 P-323 hull #20. 

On Jan 23, 2018, at 11:00 AM, Ron Buchanan <rbuch...@gmail.com> wrote:

Appealing to the gurus here. Next project.... based on this pic, is it time to pull the rudder?  No binding, rudder feels tight. Time to start grinding. What is the core of the skeg? The moisture is immediately after the pull. No moisture presently. 

<Image.png>

<Image-1.png>

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[Guy Johnson]

I'm with Dan and George on this one, grind it off and see what everything looks like. 

I don't think you'll find a worn lower bushing, pull/push the base of the rudder to expose any play in the bushing. 

About the upper fairing strips, I'd check to make sure your rudder stops are set up in such a way that the rudder fairing strips don't bang into the skeg. 

BTW I belive the keel bolts on my 10M are Monel. 

Guy

Puffin 

10M #6

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From: pearso...@googlegroups.com <pearso...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Ron Buchanan <rbuch...@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2018 7:15 PM