P30 Rudder Internal Play

[Tim Tinker]

Hi Folks, my 1979 P30, Early Bird, shows a fair amount of play inside the rudder. I've drilled a few small holes to drain water, want to fill the void with some sort of epoxy from the top. Suggestions please? Thanks!

[Bob Maxwell]

P30s, among other Pearsons are prone to wear on the rudder bushings that can cause looseness and play between the rudder and rudder tube. That's a reasonably easy fix.

If you're saying you have play between the rudder shaft and rudder's fiberglass body, that's a much bigger game and not that common. To repair that, I've generally seen splitting the rudder in half, take out any waterlogged material, inspect and repair the stainless welded to the rudder shaft, and reassemble. I don't know if it can be just drained and refilled. I'm sure others here can provide more guidance.

Bob

On Wed, Apr 2, 2025 at 10:04 AM Tim Tinker <tim...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Folks, my 1979 P30, Early Bird, shows a fair amount of play inside the rudder. I've drilled a few small holes to drain water, want to fill the void with some sort of epoxy from the top. Suggestions please? Thanks!

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[Tim Tinker]

Thanks Bob, yes the play is inside the rudder. Looking for a way to repair in place...I only sail in Chesapeake Bay, so, not too demanding sailing....an old Pearson guy at my marina says he has seen the epoxy fill be successful....

[George Dubose]

I would carefully split/saw the rudder in half longitudinally, inspect the shaft and fingers, refill the halves with epoxy and collodial silica.

Skylark, a 1973 P36-1 has what I believe to be a bronze rudder shaft and that leads me to believe that the fingers are also bronze to be welded to the shaft.

My 1970 P26 had an aluminum shaft that suffered from anaerobic corrosion where the shaft met the rudder and the shaft rested against the lower Delrin bushing, starving the water from oxygen. The rudder just fell off one day and I had to order a new rudder of stainless steel.

Good luck,

George/Skylark

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[Dan Pfeiffer]

It's hard to comment without examining the rudder but from your description I would consider pinning the rudder shaft as you do this epoxy fill.

I would drill a hole all the way through the rudder right through the middle of the shaft and pin it with a fiberglass rod.  1/2 or 5/8".  use fiberglass because the epoxy will bond well to it.  do this in two places, maybe 3" down and 12" down?

Do this when you do epoxy fill in one operation.

Dan Pfeiffer

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[Tim Tinker]

Thanks Dan, that sounds like a good idea, wondering how long it might take to drill thru both sides of the stainless steel shaft tho....

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[Dan Pfeiffer]

Slow speed, use oil, start small and work up to final diameter. Use sharp high quality HSS bits.

If you push to hard in stainless it can work harden and the bit will break and you'll need a Cobalt bit.  so take you're time and use oil.  then clean all the oil out so the epoxy will stick.

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[Bob Maxwell]

Best advice I got for drilling stainless is to use a cobalt drill bit. And yeah, it's still going to take a bit.

Bob

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[Dan Pfeiffer]

Slow speed, use oil, start small and work up to final diameter. Use sharp high quality HSS bits.

If you push too hard in stainless it can work harden and the bit will break and you'll need a Cobalt bit.  so take you're time and use oil.  then clean all the oil out so the epoxy will stick.

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[Guy Johnson]

Consistent firm pressure, producing long curly chips is desirable. Fairly easy with a drill press and harder to do with a hand held drill. 

Worth repeating, slow speed and cutting oil. 

Guy

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To: pearso...@googlegroups.com <pearso...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [pearson ] P30 Rudder Internal Play

 

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[Dave Cole]

Just go straight to cobalt bits.  Ive drilled a bunch of stainless and trashed many titanium coated high speed steel bits.  Cobalt bits will last 10 times as long.  They aren't inexpensive  but after you have thrown away a bunch of lesser bit and become very frustrated, they will seem cheap.

Menards was selling some decent cobalt bits for a while, but that was a while ago.  And they tend to discontinue slow moving items.  

Dave

10M #26

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[Guy Johnson]

I've had very good results with this set of drill bits. 

Norseman 29 pc HI-Molybdenum M7 Drill Bit Set Orange Case 1/16-1/2 USA SP-29PON

Guy 

Puffin 10M #6

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[George Dubose]

On 4/10/25 8:19 PM, Guy Johnson wrote:

Worth repeating, slow speed and cutting oil. And pressure while drilling slowly.

George/Skylark

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Thinking a bit more about this it might be best to use a water based cooling fluid so it's easier to clean out after and then get better bonding of the epoxy. 

Also, you'll need to prep the surface of the fiberglass rod to 80 grit for best adhesion.

This rod would be good.  also available in 3/4".  might be other sources.  search on eBay too.

https://www.mcmaster.com/product/2591K51

Dan Pfeiffer

[Dave Cole]

Whats the viability of splitting the rudder in place to see whats going on?  

Id be tempted.  

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[Dan Pfeiffer]

Not sure. Probabaly not?   My guess is they did the layup in two haves but they were joined together in the initial cure cycle so what there is of a seam has primary bonds.  One side is layed up in the mold, the stock is placed, the other side is layed up in the other half of the mold, the two are brought together and somewhere in that process the rest of the volume was filled by resin-rich chopper gun.  That would make for primary bonds throughout.   But that's just a guess...Probably need a seance to find out for sure. 


Dan Pfeiffer

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[Dave Cole]

Id be tempted to try and use an oscillating tool to cut it apart along the front and rear edges.  But it they filled it with a chopper gun before assembling that probably wouldnt work,which means that rudder would be nearly unrepairable.  Is that rudder really heavy?  If it was full of chopped glass it would certainly be heavy.  

I thought the 10M rudder was hollow.  It sounds hollow,  but it a very different setup. 

Dave

10M #26

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[Dan Pfeiffer]

Very heavy. 

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[Dave Cole]

So about the only way he could have slop between the rudder shaft and the rudder itself would be from broken welds?  

How else could that occur?

Fwiw, Ruddercraft doesnt have a listing for a P30 rudder but they do for some of the other models.  Also, not for the 10M.

Dave 

10M #26

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[Tim Smith]

FYI. 2020 Salvaged and shipped P30 rudder. 233 pounds. Crate 45lbs. So say 188 lbs net. 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/RGeNkom95vv9u3nT6

Tim Smith

tbsm...@gmail.com

617-536-1222 D

720-530-2971 C/T

617-933-7606 F

www.linkedin.com/in/tbsmith/

 

 

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[Dan Pfeiffer]

For those of you who have rigging for spinnaker pole topping lifts...

What sort of block do you have up on the mast?  How high on the mast  is it?  Does the topping lift run inside the mast?  What provisions for getting a fair lead from the block are there?  Does the block swivel?  Is there some other fair lead setup?   What size line?


Thanks, Dan Pfeiffer

[Peter Trunfio]

Dan,

I no longer use the old “fixed” Spinnaker pole, but I do use a telescoping Whisker pole when racing.

When I had the rigging on my 10M replaced in 2019, I took a bunch of photos of all of the hardware on the mast.

I have a bail with a “captive” Schaefer turning block mounted about 2/3rds of the way up the mast (see photos attached). The block swivels about 180 degrees…maybe less (sometimes I have to “flick” it around back in place).

There is an old stopper clutch mounted on the port side of the mast, above the boom…similar to the two at the bottom of this Rigrite listing:

https://www.rigrite.com/Hardware/Rope_Clutches/Sch_Stoppers_Spin.php

Not sure what diameter the topping lift is, but it doesn’t have to be very large. I think it’s just supporting the weight of the whisker pole, and keeping it from dipping in light air.

The topping lift has a snap-shackle on one end, and a luggage tag loop on the other.

I run the topping lift up to the turning block and back down the outside of the mast. It goes through the stopper fairlead, which doesn’t really do much…we run the topping lift down to one of the port side mast winches, and then cleat it off on the mast.

Sorry I don’t have more (better) pictures…

Let me know if you have any additional questions…

PMT

Peter M. Trunfio
s/v Annandale

City Island, NY

+1.917.640.6450 (c)

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[Dave Cole]

Thats crazy heavy.  

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[Jeff Griglack]

I dropped my P30 rudder to replace the bearings. Yes, it's very heavy and seems to be very solid.

My thoughts on the slop in the shaft was also that it would probably be broken welds. I don't see how else it could happen. 

I was wondering if you could use one of the phone attachments that use sonar to image inside a wall to view inside your rudder.

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[Guy Johnson]

Harken ball bearing swivel block just below the spreaders, 5/16 double braid, harken jam cleat on mast, Schaefer horn cleat on mast to lock it off. 

Guy

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Subject: [pearson ] Spinnaker Pole Topping Lift Rigging

 

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[Guy Johnson]

The rudder could be x-rayed to look at in internals. 

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Subject: Re: [pearson ] P30 Rudder Internal Play

 

Not sure. Probabaly not?   My guess is they did the layup in two haves but they were joined together in the initial cure cycle so what there is of a seam has primary bonds.  One side is layed up in the mold, the stock is placed, the other side is layed up in the other half of the mold, the two are brought together and somewhere in that process the rest of the volume was filled by resin-rich chopper gun.  That would make for primary bonds throughout.   But that's just a guess...Probably need a seance to find out for sure. 


Dan Pfeiffer

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[Guy Johnson]

On Apr 12, 2025, at 8:20 PM, Guy Johnson <guy...@hotmail.com> wrote:



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[Dave Cole]

My setup is very similar to Guy's.  The lines are external.  But no jam cleat, just a horned cleat.  But I think there is 1/4" double braid on it.  5/16 would be nicer.

The block wheel broke last year.  It was a crappy block.  I need to replace it with a spare.   Hopefully they will have a manlift parked at the dock when I launch the boat.   They have been doing that the last few years.

They charge about $100/hr to use the lift.   The lift takes all of the drama out of minor fixes like this.  Tie the boat tight to the seawall and go to it.  

Guy, looking at your boat picture and the boats behind it;   I have never seen hoops used like that under shrink wrap.   Is that to keep the snow off?   Or just how they do it there?

Dave

10M #26

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[Guy Johnson]

Those hoops are 1x3 strapping and shrinkwrap filament tape to make the frame. With the tight shrinkwarp snow slides off. 

Guy 

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Subject: Re: [pearson ] Spinnaker Pole Topping Lift Rigging

 

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[Dave Cole]

Clever!  

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