Good eve. Delamination of the fiberglass tabbed mount for Edson sheave frame...Repair insights?

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Tim Smith

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Jul 12, 2021, 9:06:55 PM7/12/21
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I have been on the water since last Wednesday.  Motored down the river to my mooring.  Changed moorings Saturday.  Shaking Oasis down very carefully.   Literally baby steps. While practicing mooring pickup Saturday, I felt a strong springing sensation at/below the helm. Positive helm control before and after.  

I had inspected all Edson components months before launch.  Inspected again yesterday.  The Edson components are in great shape.  Positive helm control, chain and wire tracking, sheaves, quadrant, rudder stop.  

I have been researching/testing root cause of what I felt and considering repairs.    

Problem: The plywood mount/support of the sheave frame and rudder stop has loosened from bottom of cockpit sole. 
Please see 40 second mark of video here.

The aged mounting board installation of the sheave frame with rudder stop employs wood screws and tabbing for fixation to the bottom of cockpit sole.  The mount tabbing fore and port side has delaminated over time and whatever adhesion remained on the port side gave way Saturday along with 2 wood screws fastened into the bottom of the cockpit sole.  Again helm control positive before and after; never had to deploy emergency rudder.  Calm seas and a light breeze.

Some disappointment yet no deadlines, zero pressure, taking this as a chance to deepen know-how with my Edson rig; taking my slow time with all of this.  

Humble reflection. When I inspected the Edson gear last year I now realize that I was unaware of the significance of lighter colored tabbing on the fore section of the frame mounting board and on the port edge, all hardware/frame felt solid/tight, minor rust and very clean bolts.  I did not know then what delaminating fiberglass looked like, something I learned recently watching youtube Parlay Revival Lagoon 450 bulkhead failure series. The survey I have delayed might have caught this.

Here is an October 2020 picture looking aft taken during exhaust system rebuild.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/XF28chTnSRUZ3nL28  Wide lense.  Can you spot the delamination points? Today I can.

Here is a closeup photo from Sunday July 11 2021 of the primary failure (port) and secondary partial failure (forward) edges of tabbing.  

Here is a link to the album of photos I have taken so far.

1. Would you advise hauling for repair or do you think it can be done properly at the mooring?

2. Do you have any experience with this kind of failure?

3. Do you have any experience with this kind of repair in or out of the water?

Other discussion and guidance welcomed.

My current thought is to get some advice and experienced counsel before/as I dive into gradual disassembly and repair in-place.  I believe I can remove cables, jack and tack mounting board back in place, reinforce with ss wood screws, cleanup for bonding, retab entire mounting board with Edson hardware in place and maintaining registration of Edson components.

Thanks for your time and guidance. Stay well. Tim 


 


Peter Ogilvie

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Jul 12, 2021, 11:07:39 PM7/12/21
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Doing the repair on the hard won’t make it any easier but may make it a lot more convenient having access to whatever you need without jumping in a rowboat and paddling to shore.  The repair is going to be messy and will need AC power for a grinder and shop vacuum.  Tear out the old plywood that supports the sheave.  if it’s not deteriorated, grind off the rough edges of the old tabbing on the board and the any rough edge and delamination of the tabbing on the hull.

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Peter Ogilvie

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Jul 12, 2021, 11:24:08 PM7/12/21
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Damn hate it when I hit the wrong button.  

Looks there are fasteners for other hardware that need to be removed.  When it’s cleaned up and roughed up with a grinder paint the board, mating surface and surrounding area where you’ll be laminating with epoxy resin.  Mix up some thickened epoxy and slap it on the board then screw the board back in place with larger screws.  Use cloth with stitched matt attached and laminate over the plywood onto the adjoining glass lay-up.  Use several layers.  When it’s set-up, redial the holes you’ve covered up with the cloth laminate and bolt the edson sheave and whatever else you’ve removed and your done.  If you’ve removed fasteners that run through the deck, rebed with butyl tape.

On Jul 12, 2021, at 6:06 PM, Tim Smith <tbsm...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dan Pfeiffer

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Jul 13, 2021, 1:23:08 AM7/13/21
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I wouldn't haul the boat for this.  Only issue may be power as Peter suggested.  But if you can haul it you can probably get to a dock with power instead.  And it's more fun to work on aligning things in a cramped space when a wake comes along and rocks the boat. 

also, do all repairs with epoxy.  The bonds will be almost twice the strength of polyester in this application.  The old tabbing will peel off the surfaces more easily than you expect.  Get under an edge with a wide chisel or "wonder bar" type pry bar and it will peel right off.  I have several of these in various sizes and shapes that I use to drive under the tabbing:
https://www.google.com/search?q=wonder+bar+tool&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiAiIi7kN_xAhVRCc0KHaznAgoQ_AUoAnoECAEQBA&biw=1920&bih=955

I pulled some tabbing in my engine room and I spent 20 min deciding weather to remove it.  It took maybe 4 minutes with the tools?   Very similar tabbing. 

 

Five guiding principles for this sort of repair
1. PREP SURFACES PROPERLY
2. NEVER ADD NEW TABBING OVER OLD TABBING
3. MAXIMIZE THE SURFACE AREA OF SECONDARY BONDING
4. MAXIMIZE PRIMARY BONDING WITHIN THE REPAIR
5. MAKE SURE TO USE COMPATIBLE MATERIALS

More detail...
1. PREP SURFACES PROPERLY
clean and de-grease, then thoroughly sand after that so you don't just grind junk into the surface that might interfere with the bonding.  For epoxy repair sand to 80 grit.  Sand off any paint on any wood surfaces where you will be bonding with epoxy.  Bare wood and 80 grit surfaces.  Then clean it again.  Clean the surfaces with acetone or alcohol or some other appropriate solvent.  Do not rush or skimp this part.  It should probably take most of your time in the repair process.  The dust from sanding/grinding this stuff is nasty and dangerous.  Use asbestos rated respirator.  You can sand and grind at slower tool speeds to keep from kicking out as much dust.   There are sanders and grinders that collect most of the dust.  Expensive and worth it to me.  (e.g. Festool RAS115)

2. NEVER ADD NEW TABBING OVER OLD TABBING
Old tabbing will be with secondary bonding (mechanical bonds), probably with polyester resin.  Epoxy is about 170% stronger in secondary bonding but you have to remove all the old polyester bonding to get that advantage.  If you add new tabbing over old, even with epoxy, the bond strength is only as good as that original polyester.  Remove all the old tabbing - it comes off a lot easier than you expect.   You can probably peel it all off with minimal dust rather than trying to grind through it. 

3. MAXIMIZE THE SURFACE AREA OF SECONDARY BONDING
The larger the surface area of the tabbing or patch the stronger the secondary bond of the repair.  Spread it out as far as manageable and taper the layers.  The layers should taper down to one at the edges.  About an inch per layer will work. 

4. MAXIMIZE PRIMARY BONDING WITHIN THE REPAIR
Do the repair in a continuous process with each layer being added before the previous has cured.  This is called hot coating and it provides for primary bonding (chemical cross-linking) of the layers within the repair.  The bond to the original surface will still be secondary but the bonding within the layers of the structure of the repair will be primary.  If you let a layer cure then sand and prep for another layer the bond between those layers will be secondary.  Not nearly as strong.  Avoid that.  For a structural repair you want as much primary bonding as possible.  If you have an inside corner to tab over you want to start with a fillet of thickened epoxy.  The tabbing over the fillet should be done before full cure of the fillet to have primary bonding between the fillet and the tabbing.  That also reduces the tendency for the tabbing to peel from the surface which is a common way tabbing fails.   Plan out the tabbing so it can all be applied with hot coating.  You see a lot of examples (on youtube) of people doing layers of epoxy and letting it cure between layers.  They say the let it dry, then sand and add another layer.  This is NOT the way to work with epoxy and misses one of the biggest advantages you get which is primary bonding between the layers when hot coating. 

5. MAKE SURE TO USE COMPATIBLE MATERIALS
Make sure all your materials work properly with each other.  Fabric for polyester resin has some binders on it that dissolve in the polyester resin but don't work with epoxy.  The fabric will still wet out but it's harder to work with.  Make sure whatever fabric you use is OK with epoxy resin.  Same goes for additives like thickeners for fillets.  If you stick with one brand (West System or System 3) you will be fine.   And don't skimp on materials.  In the end it is a small part of the expense of a repair even for DIY.  Better materials have superior performance and are easier to work with.   Be sure any wood you use is good for marine applications.  Use marine grade plywood, mahogany, white oak.  Do not use red oak, pressure treated pine or typical plywood from the big box store.  You can seal all the edges of the wrong woods but it will still be inferior.  Better yet don't use any wood.  You can get fiberglass panels and structural shaped pieces that are excellent for repair work like this.   I would try to use that rather than any wood.  Like with sanding/grinding the dust from cutting this stuff is nasty.  Use asbestos rated respirator. 


Do all your work with these principles in mind and you will have the strongest repair.  Sometimes you have to compromise.  You may have to glue in a part and let it set before tabbing over.  That's sometimes what has to happen but if you always work to these principles you will have the best repair.   If you have to decide to do A or B just figure out which sticks better to these principles and go with that. 



I stick with West System epoxy because I understand it.  Other brands may be just as good.  I use West System fillers and additives and West System fabrics.  For these sorts of repairs I like biaxial fabric for strength, especially the 727 4" tape which handles really well.  Sometimes I'll finish with a layer of woven fabric which leaves a smoother surface that cleans easier.  That's harder on an overhead repair.

Fiberglass from McMaster Carr in various shapes and sizes...
https://www.mcmaster.com/fiberglass/
I just used some of these fiberglass angle for motor beds and a battery box mount.  Great stuff.
https://www.mcmaster.com/fiberglass/shape~90-angle/

I did a backing plate in my forepeak from a 3/8 sheet of the structural fiberglass that I cut to fit.  I glued it to the underside of the deck with a mash of thickened epoxy and tabbed the edges to the hull after removing the old polyester tabbing... 
http://dan.pfeiffer.net/10m/hoyt_jib_boom_install_details.htm
I could see doing a similar job to repair your steering gear mounting if I am interpreting what I see in your photos correctly. 


Also, prepare for this to be messy.  Seal off the rest of the boat if you can to keep dust from spreading everywhere (slower tool speeds help with this).  Mask over stuff you don't want to drip resin on.   Use lots of gloves and cover your arms and head. 


That got a little longer than planned but now I have something to cut and paste to answer these types of questions. 


Dan Pfeiffer

Tim Smith

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Jul 13, 2021, 8:40:56 AM7/13/21
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Dan and Peter. Pure gold. Thank you.  I will bring over my Honda suitcase generator for AC. Looking at smaller grinding/sanding tools for tight tabbing spaces especially above and in front of quadrant. Lots of pry tools on hand. Will follow with clarifying questions after further slow reads/research, when deeper on project plan. Stay well. Tim 

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Peter Ogilvie

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Jul 13, 2021, 11:55:02 AM7/13/21
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To add to Dan’s very thorough detail of how to do the repair.  West Systems has a slow catalyst #209.  If you are working in 80 plus temps, would think about using it to give you some working time before the resin kicks.  It works considerably slower than the so called slow #206 hardener when it’s hot and will give a much needed time reprieve.  When I say slow, it’s glacially slow at room temps.

George DuBose

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Jul 13, 2021, 12:00:17 PM7/13/21
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Don't know the birth date of your Pearson, but my 1973 P36 had some
serious tabbing issues and even worse attempts to repair. I don't think
epoxy was used in the early production. Also, a lot if not all the
plywood they used doesn't seem to be waterproof. Delaminates when wet.

I would use West System, their 406? "adhesive" thickener to strengthen
any adhesion and marine ply or here in Europe, I can get
Siebdruckplatte, which is plywood made with chemical and waterproof
glues.

Bon chance,

George/Skylark










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Dave Cole

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Jul 13, 2021, 1:55:54 PM7/13/21
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Sorry you're having these problems Tim.

I mentioned this before, when did my bulkhead replacement in my 10M, but IMO you need this, or something similar.


Whenever you sand/grind fiberglass with a high speed tool, the glass fibers and dust goes everywhere.  Hence Dan's suggestion to block off part of your boat to avoid dust issues.  If you go the conventional rotary sander/grinder route you will want to put on a tyvek suit, mask and doing that in a hot boat will suck.
If you use one of these you simply won't have major dust issues.   Use a lightweight dust mask and keep a vacuum handy and suck up up what falls from the tool, but you won't be making dust clouds as you lie on your back, side etc.  
This tool cuts through wood and 'glass quickly.  Plus there is basically zero danger of cutting yourself or grinding a notch in your arm, etc.   
They have a silicone carbide pad that grinds glass nicely.  Its 50-80 grit and its grit bonded to a steel plate.   It lasts a long time.  It does a great job roughing up wood and fiberglass for bonding on Epoxy saturated tabbing.  

There are cheaper or more expensive versions of this tool, but you pretty much get what you pay for to a point.

I think I bought the tool and kit for about $150 and I probably have another $100 worth of blades, sanding pads, etc.  They last longer than I expected.
This particular tool has a tool less setup for changing tools which you will do a lot.  Initially I thought I paid too much for my Bosch tool, but I keep using it over and over, so no regrets.  
It can do things that no other tool I have can do, and easily.

IMO, you will want to be tied to a dock when you do this work.   This will be hard work in a tight place and you don't need to be rowing to your boat to do it.

Before you slather a load of resin and filler to bond your plywood in place, do a small test in similar temps and make sure you have enough open time with the hardener you have chosen.
You don't want it setting up as you install it and you don't want to wait days for it to set.   If you use an Epoxy that has a 5:1 ratio, make sure you measure it precisely otherwise it may not turn out as you want.
I really like the 2:1 mix kits with the pumps.   It's a lot harder to mess up.  
I have been using RAKA No Blush Epoxy with their normal temp hardener without regrets.    It's fairly inexpensive compared to West and it works very well.
James Town distributors has a great selection of glass mat, fillers etc as well. 

I've purchased fillers off Amazon on and off.    You need to watch the prices as they go up and down, but I have bought some System 3 fillers from Amazon for less than I could get elsewhere.   But their prices seem to go up and down a lot.  
I suspect that your choice of fillers if you want to bond a flat piece of plywood to an existing glass surface will be more important than the epoxy itself.  
Choose carefully.  Id probably do some testing before actually doing it.  
I really like fumed silica as a thickener for bonding glass to wood or wood to wood.   Amazon sells it as do others.   It thickens up the Raka epoxy I have been using very effectively.  I sandwiched part of an existing bulkhead in my 10M to a new section of bulkhead and it works very well.  It squished out nicely but also filled gaps.  

To wipe stuff down before applying epoxy and paint on smaller areas, I like to use high test rubbing alcohol.   The 90+ proof stuff works nicely for that.  The bottles with the flip tops are just too handy.  
Sams Club sells it cheap in a two pack.   It takes off grease and dirt nicely with paper towel or rags.

You are going to want to have some stir sticks (tongue depressors work nicely), cheap chip brushes (Harbor Freight, etc), and cheap thin nitrile gloves.    I like to use paper cups to mix the epoxy.  The plastic coated hot/cold Dixie Cups work well.

The high test rubbing alcohol removes wet epoxy very nicely as well.    It's just too handy.  

Dave
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Jesse Tane

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Jul 13, 2021, 2:08:45 PM7/13/21
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On my p30 the steel cross member that supports the sheaves and stop was secured to two wooden blocks that were through bolted to the sides of the cockpit wall (so, a bit different from what you have). Given the wall is only about 1/8" thick this allowed the entire assembly to flex considerably. I ran 4 x 5/16" bolts through the cockpit sole and cross member to tie it all together and it's rock solid now. Not sure if it's the right solution given your situation but it was fast, cheap and I was able to do it in the water.

https://www.jessetane.com/isotope/miami-spring-2020/images/IMG_5763.jpeg

Tim Smith

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Jul 13, 2021, 4:32:24 PM7/13/21
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George, Dave, Jesse,

Your guidance and experience much appreciated as I approach planning for this work.

I have an oscillating tool that I will experiment with and possibly upgrade; much other guidance here from you all that I will take some time with.

Thankful. Stay well, Tim
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Tim Smith

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Jul 15, 2021, 9:44:45 PM7/15/21
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Good evening all.  I updated my album for all the starboard side investigation.  Have not made time to annotate photos yet for planning purposes.  Secured rudder in place directly to take some pressure off cables, lifted/secured sheave frame to limit movement and contact with quadrant. 

As others here suspected, the tabbing on the port and forward side of sheave mounting came off with very little pressure or mini pry bar deployment. Its all from crap preparation and pictures of the glass I removed is in the album.  

The starboard mounting board and sheave frame bolts pass through a wooden extension that is well glassed to the side of the cockpit wall and the glass on all edges looks so much better, glossy and virtually no penetrating delamination aft, fore, and starboard.  I am not placing much trust in any of the work at this point.

I am leaning towards a fix for this season then a permanent fix once I haul out in the fall.

Formative seasonal fix:
I am considering 3 pairs of lateral through bolts with epoxy prep through the cockpit sole and spaced across mounting board, fender washers, rubber backing washers, maybe cleveland hex nuts etc. Sealing/finishing sole carefully for season.   

Add self tapping screws from the underside with pre-drilled guide holes across the length of the metal sheave frame as close to quadrant as possible on both sides (where I am most worried about lateral forces). These would not penetrate cockpit sole. 

Then final strip and deep prep all surfaces that I can reach (with mount and quadrant in place) and then new tabbing to clean board/underside of sole on port and forward edge port side. (Oscillating tool wherever possible). Goal is to check alignment but leave mounting, sheaves , quadrant in place for season; remove quadrant, replace mounting, reglass and reconsider bolts when I haul out in the fall.  Mounting has not been wet and shows no signs of either warping, fatigue or splitting. Will test to see how drilling and self tapping screws bite. Welcome thoughts.  

On a side note. Both cables ended up on the bottom quadrant channel which cannot be correct from what I see of Edson installs.  So the cables must have converged there when the tabs released.  I will be checking alignment of chain, cables, idlers, sheaves, and quadrants. 
  
Reviewing and reflecting mode. Taking my time. Maintaining a beginner's mind.

Thankful.


 




Album here:
On Tue, Jul 13, 2021 at 2:08 PM Jesse Tane <jesse...@gmail.com> wrote:

Rich Glucksman

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Jul 15, 2021, 10:23:10 PM7/15/21
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Hi all, new to the group having acquired a 1987 pearson 31-2 at the end of last season (Rhode Island so short-ish sailing time).  Still on the hard as the engine is being repaired off the boat. On our one adventure before hauling we realized the transmission is very stiff. Anyone with a similar situation find they were able to resolve with lubricant (if so which) or need to replace cable - and if so how horrible/any tips? Sure won’t be my last question, so thanks and really appreciate all the insights from the other chains. 
Rich

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Robert Franklin

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Jul 15, 2021, 10:27:05 PM7/15/21
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Welcome.

What engine?

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Rich Glucksman

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Jul 15, 2021, 10:53:24 PM7/15/21
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yanmar model 2GM20F


Dave Cole

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Jul 15, 2021, 11:35:57 PM7/15/21
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If this is a Morse type cable, and it's just a little stiff (disconnected from the trans)  I'd use some 5 or 10W motor oil and work it back and forth.   If it's really stiff, use penetrating oil, get it loose, then use 10W motor oil.   Put oil into both ends.   If it won't loosen up, replace it.   If it's visibly quite rusty, I'd replace it.  
Morse cables are used many boats and machines.   They are probably a lot more common than you realize.  

Dave
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Dan Pfeiffer

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Jul 16, 2021, 12:27:38 AM7/16/21
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Your pictures help a lot.  See attached sketch for my solution based on what I think I see in your photos.   Strong, simple and minimal added holes and no holes through the cockpit sole. Better than any solution that tabs that original plywood piece back in place.   It involves a minimal amount of epoxy/filler work.  No fabric.  No tabbing.    From the looks of your Edson frame as I see it in the photos there is enough width to make this work but you will need to verify with some measurements.  I think this will work if the bolt holes in the Edson frame are at least 2 to 3" further apart than the width of the cockpit well at this location.   It just needs enough room for the fasteners and washers on top.  If there are other things attached to that plywood they can be attached to the fiberglass angle directly or with an extension. 

This is the fiberglass angle I drew in the sketch:
https://www.mcmaster.com/8542K36/
Its 4x4x3/8.  You might be able to use 3x3x3/8 depending on dimensions of the Edson frame. 
https://www.mcmaster.com/8542K33/

This stuff is VERY strong.  I just used some to make a mount for a 220 lb battery.   It comes in 2' sections.  Enough to do this repair three times over?  In 100,000 years when the rest of the boat has flaked away like dust in the wind this repair will remain.   


Dan Pfeiffer

Screenshot at 2021-07-16 00-18-56.png

Jesse Tane

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Jul 16, 2021, 12:17:58 PM7/16/21
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So Dan's drawing is exactly how my frame (which is identical to yours) was originally mounted, albeit with wood 4x4's rather than angle. The problem is not in the stiffness of the brackets, but in cockpit wall sides to which they mount. If you look at my pic again you will notice that the sole core structure is below and inset from the rather round cockpit wall corner, so the brackets (also visible in the pic, I didn't bother removing them) could be titanium but the entire assembly will still deform the cockpit walls on heel or when the stop is engaged as the lateral load is never transferred to the core structure. Perhaps you could build up a shoulder to address this but yeah, then you're back to grinding and glassing in a very uncomfortable space.

Agree drilling holes in the sole sucks, but if you do end up going that route, definitely remove some core around the holes and fill with epoxy (I used marine-tex) or the deck will just crush when you get to tightening. Also be very careful with your measurements and in particular the angle at which you drill - you have a long way to go so any error in angle will put you into the side of the frame where you stand a good chance of breaking off a drill inside - ask me how I know!

I realize in my pic there is a giant rust stain right where my port side bolt pair is, but this predates my mod and originated from the leaky instrument panel which has since been removed. I sealed under my bolt heads with Compass Marine's butyl tape which I have used extensively and never seen leak - fantastic stuff in case you're not already familiar with it.

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Dave Cole

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Jul 16, 2021, 1:11:08 PM7/16/21
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Tim,

I looked at your new picts.  I'd be tempted (if there is room) to remove or slacken your cables, then put a couple of hydraulic jacks under the plywood and steel cross support and move it up and back into the original position.   Then cut or pull out all of the tabbing you can.    Grind it back to good fiberglass, and roughened wood.  Clean it,  Then Re-tab the existing plywood to the fiberglass, which looks to be in decent shape.  Some biax or triax tape, with epoxy should work.   You may have to tack the tape into place with a stapler(?) since a lot of it will be overhead.   I'd do some testing on inverted surfaces outside of the boat before doing it in tight confines.    The tape is the way to go for tabbing.  Try wetting it down with epoxy before getting crammed into the tight spots.   My 10M has a lot of cloth tabbing which isn't nearly as strong as tape.  

It's difficult to say how hard this would be since I am not crammed into the lockers.   But that might be the quickest fix.   A small shop vac with a longish hose might be valuable.
To place a jack/s on the hull, consider making some sandbags or sandbags and a crossmember to land the jacks on.  Don't go crazy with the jacks, just move things back into position and hold it in place while the tabbing sets.    Small hydraulic jacks are pretty cheap if you can find them right now.    I needed two the other day and had to visit 3 stores before I could find even one!   Harbor Freight had the best prices, but they had zero stock a few weeks ago.

Dave
10M #26

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Dan Pfeiffer

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Jul 16, 2021, 1:11:39 PM7/16/21
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That's a good point about the issue of stiffness in the cockpit structure.  Here is a revision that adds a 3/8 fiberglass plate across the bottom to stiffen the whole structure up.  This one will be good for 200,000 years.   Still no tabbing to do.   And you can make the angles extend further forward along the edge to add some more stiffness.  I was figuring 4" or the length of the Edson frame flange but there's no reason it can't be 12.   Might depend on what else is going on in that space.   And you can trim the horizontal part shorter.

The plate is from the electrical grade fiberglass that McMaster sells.  This is the piece I would figure on:
https://www.mcmaster.com/3345K33/
The reason to use that rather than the green structural stuff is just because of the convenient sizes it comes in.  There is a 6x36 size for this.  They don't have that in the green structural form and it would involve a lot of cutting and extra material to use that.  And the red stuff is basically just as strong.  It also has a flatter surface for things where that matters.  All the surfaces that will be glued should be sanded to 80 grit just like all jobs involving epoxy.

Ditto on the endorsement of Compass Marine Bed-it Butyl tape.

Dan Pfeiffer

Screenshot at 2021-07-16 13-00-10.png

Jesse Tane

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Jul 16, 2021, 1:28:28 PM7/16/21
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Nice Dan, that was fast - definitely looks like it would do the trick.

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Dave Cole

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Jul 16, 2021, 3:17:48 PM7/16/21
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>>Here is a revision that adds a 3/8 fiberglass plate across the bottom to stiffen the whole structure up.  This one will be good for 200,000 years.   Still no tabbing to do. <<

Dan, 

While your solution might be an overkill.  :-)   It does get rid of the requirement of doing tabbing on an overhead surface.
I have applied epoxy and fiberglass cloth on an overhead surface and vertical surface before and it worked well, it's really hard to estimate how difficult that would be in Tim's boat without personally climbing into that space.  I would need to be able to use both hands.    
 
I suspect that the original plywood, tabbing and steel frame was installed when the cockpit was upside down in the mold or before it was flipped over.
Too bad they didn't do a better job on Tim's boat back then when it was easy to get to! 

Dave
10M #26



On Fri, Jul 16, 2021 at 1:11 PM Dan Pfeiffer <d...@pfeiffer.net> wrote:
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Tim Smith

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Jul 17, 2021, 10:27:10 AM7/17/21
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Dan, Dave, Jesse, and other members contributing;

I read everything you all posted closely last night.  Appreciate you reflecting on photo additions and loading the way you have.  My great fortune to have your time and engagement as I work through the sheave mount repair. A thousand thanks.  Dan, your initial drawing and updated drawing as well as material references are awesome. Have to love a 200,000 year plan. Jesse and Dave thanks for investing your experiences and insights.  I am going to come out of the weekend with a plan.  Taking all of this slow, careful measurements for both alignment and fixation.  Vertical sheave adjustment travel built into frame.  I am concerned about cable alignment, steering load/frame load distribution, and rudder stop forces(I noticed the rudder stop hose-bumper has a couple of deep cuts on it). Stepping back and reflecting on plan.  Some measurements today.  Will post back as inevitable questions arise.  Thankful. Stay well. Tim 
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George DuBose

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Jul 18, 2021, 6:56:31 AM7/18/21
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It maybe that the clamp on the engine end of the Morse cable is too
tightly clamping the cable. In my case, the clamp was too loose and got
stuck in reverse the other day in France.

I have also heard of soaking a speedometer cable in transmission fluid
to lubricate it. Morse cables aren't that expensive to replace.

George/Skylark
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Rich Glucksman

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Jul 18, 2021, 7:01:23 AM7/18/21
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Wow that’s great I hope you fix it before you got into too much trouble!
 anybody replace theirs and what was that experience like?

Dave Cole

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Jul 18, 2021, 11:02:23 AM7/18/21
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They are usually fairly easy to replace if you have good access to both ends of the cable.    If not, then even a minor job can take a while.  
They are almost always adjustable so you need to make sure that you can fully engage the trans in fwd, neutral, and reverse.  But that's not normally difficult. 

Dave
10M #26

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Guy Johnson

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Jul 18, 2021, 3:31:20 PM7/18/21
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The panel I have is the Solbian 23w all in one. The MPPT controller is built into the panel, just hook the two wires to the battery. I
t's semi flexible allowing it to be secured to a gently curved surface or to a bimini. 
I ordered it from OceanPlanet Energy. 
Model# Size(in.)/Weight(lb) Power 1-Stage Charge V Max I @12V/24V Price Price w/Forex & Grommets SP23All1 23.7”x 11.5”/1.3 lbs 23W 13.8V/27.6V 2A/1A $269 $295 SP47Q All1 23.7”x21.5”/2 lbs 47W 13.8V/27.6V 4A/2A $519 $570 SP47L All1 44” x 11.5”/ 2lbs 47W 13.8V/27.6V 4A/2A $519 $570 SP60 All1 28.7”x21.7”/2.4lbs 60W 13.8V/27.6V 5A/2.5A $659 $725


Guy

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From: pearso...@googlegroups.com <pearso...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Dave Cole <dave...@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2021 11:02 AM
To: pearso...@googlegroups.com <pearso...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [pearson ] Transmission cable
 

Dave Cole

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Jul 18, 2021, 6:46:05 PM7/18/21
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Thanks Guy.

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