Toe rails

[Alptraveler]

Not sure if the 80's era of 31-2's are different than all other Pearson versions so not sure if this question is a 31-2 specific question or generic to Pearson's.

As Last Resort & I have mentioned , we both have this really weird "seep" in the gallery area where the top/bottom match. It doesn't happen all of the time and there is no "deluge of wetness", just a brownish seep that rears its ugly head once in awhile. At 1st I figured it was a Genoa track leak-don't think so cuz my nuts and backers are bone dry on the inside of the boat and my moisture meter didn't pick up moisture. Next, thought it was a stansion leak-I temp put Butyl tape around the base b/c the p.o. used some heavy duty adhesive and I can't remove it (maybe, just maybe water is draining down the stansion pole and down into a hole???) but again,my moisture meter is not picking up anything. Next, wondering if rain water drains down the deck, seeps under the toe rail and finds a bolt that is not properly sealed so it seeps. The seep is ALAWAYS at the same spot, where the decal is for the haul-out straps. 

Here's how the  toe rail + top/bottom deck goes: All mentioned below are under the curved lip of the top deck so as to need to access from the bottom

*under the bottom of the toe rail area there are screws that seem to screw in the bottom hull to the top deck

*under the bottom of the toe rails there are nuts that lead from the bottom of the toe rails,thru the seam lip where the top/bottom meet

*around the entire noat is a metal rub rail, not a rubber one.

Does anyone know HOW the wooden toe rails are attached on either the 31-2 or Pearson in general? It appears as if I loosen all of the nuts from underneath the toe rails may just lift up and I could get a good peak. On my O'Day the toe rails had screws which screwed into the deck from the top and you filled with wooden plugs if you wanted a better cosmetic look. This Pearson shows zero signs of the rails mounted from above with a bolt thru the deck seam. 5 yrs ago the p.o. said he had the toe rails rebedded. 

I didn't want to open a can of worms without knowing more. The boat goes into the water in 2 wks, we are on our last day of completing "projects" and I was afraid that by experimenting I may delay my launch. BTW....I live 5 hrs from my boat rt now so staying up here to fix a problem I created is not an option after already paying a motel fee for 5 days and not wanting to add another 5 days to the equation. I think I can work on this while at the marina sometime this summer but needing more info.

Anyone who is a woodworker probably has the answer.....

Thanks

[Peter McGowan]

On the P36 the totals are screwed to the deck then wooden bungs cover the screws.  The deck overlaps the hull at this point (the hull has a lip that the deck sits on) so the toe rail is doing double duty as a way to hide that seam.  There are many other screws under the toe rail that mechanically hold the deck to the hull in addition to the adhesive they used so it’s not like if you take off the toe rail everything starts to come apart.  The majority of toe rail screws on Dragonfly were points of egress for water as the toe rail trapped water which made its way under the toe rail to find the nearest screw hole.

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[George DuBose]

On Skylark, a 1973 P36-1, the toe rails were attached with wood screws to the deck and bedded with silicone. By the time, the boat came to me, the silicone was failing and when I set out across the Atlantic in 2009, water would be trapped on deck behind the toerail, seep down through the 100 screw holes, soaking the lower bench mattresses in the cabin.

The toerail had been oversanded, bungs were missing and I wound up replacing all the toe rail. I had a cabinet maker shape the teak and then I bedded it with Sikaflex and through bolted it with machine screws.

At this time, Skylark has ONE leak around one of the portlights and as the portlight lens and frame are not leaking, I suspect that the leak is migrating between the deck and the overhead of the cabin liner. The chase continues...

George/Skylark

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[Alptraveler]

So, yes, I have a gazillion stainless screws that can be accessed from under the lip, easy peasy. But....I also have a fair # of bolts with washers + 1/2" nuts that appear to have Butyl or caulk behind the washer, also under the lip, in the very same vacinity of the gazillion screws. Iffff the toe rail is bolted thru from the top there is zero evidence of a bung and the bolt head would seem to be something that would make the teak vulnerable to breaking. On a Pearson forum,other than this one, someone mention the thru bolts were sandwhiching the top+hull together and the gazillion screws screwed the toe rail from under the lip to cover the bolts. I just don't want to start undoing screws and bolts when perhaps I only need to do one or the other to inspect. I feel like I am playing the lottery as to which I pick and I don't have the experience to fix if I screw it up badly.

Any idea how to release a stansion that seems to have been caulked in with some mighty stuff? I might say 4200 and hope not 5200. P.O. had his rigger do the work, I have no idea what material he would have access to. Tho, as mentioned,  I put Butyl around the stansion base to temp see if the weep was.origination from that area. Unless it is coming down the stansion post it certainly is not coming.in via the base.

Again, it is a dry weep and only egressing where the lift strap is indicated. That makes me wonder if the straps compress the boat, as a swing does your hips, and has loosened up the toe rail seals.

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[Alptraveler]

This pic attached is one I found on another Pearson forum for a 31-2, but the discussion is a few yrs old and no follow up or other pics. Tho my toe rail is in great shape and the pic attached has a rotten rail, it appears that the bolts are sandwiching the deck together where I can access the 1/2" nut w/washer from under the lip. It also looks like the gazillion screws under the lip are meant for screwing the toe rail down from under the lip. Am I seeing this correctly? It makes sense to what I am seeing and it also makes sense as to how easy water could seep into a toe rail screw. This makes me wonder if all I would need to do is remove the screws and the toe rail would pop off?  On the other hand, if I remove the rails am I taking the risk of breaking the toe rails and now I have opened Pandora's box cuz my rails seem really solid and definitely not rotten.

 A colored water test is not the answer cuz my situation is not a diluge, yet, of a leak but more of an annoying situation that I would prefer to head off at the path.  My weep happens so few times that it confuses me but yet it is there.

[Pauleen Ward Brown]

On our 31-2 The toe rail is either bolted or screwed on from underneath the lip where the deck joins the hull. 

Stanchions, my favorite job! I've written a lot about them on here. We took them off last year; they are bolted on though the deck with washers and backing plates. There was a lot of damage in the core due to leaks and needed to be replaced.  I guess if you have a seep you may have core damage too

In the v-birth, if there is no hole already cut one has to cut away  access to the bolts and it is very awkward getting to them.  When we completed the job in the V-Birth we cut a piece of quarter inch teak, varnished, and screwed it to the ceiling to cover the hole.  

This is a Two person job; putting the stanchions back on with butyl tape, One person above the deck holding down the bolts so as not to mess up the butyl and another below deck tightening the nuts. 

If you want any more information contact me at pauleen@perhapscoaching.    Com

On Fri, Apr 26, 2024, 6:17 AM Alptraveler <alptr...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[Alptraveler]

Thanks for the response. So the chicken and egg question....are the bolts I see from under the deck lips holding the deck+hull together which are actually hidden under the rails or are the screws I see, also under the lip holding the 2 together. I attached a pic I got from another post. Did yours looks like that?? I already experimented with the stansion but the previous owner REALLY adhered it on. To rule out that area I put Butyl around the stansion a yr ago. It still seeped between the fall and now when we came to the boat(maybe when they had the boat on the straps in the fall it rained and the compression opened up the joint???) I am looking in the area where we have a seep....port side, where the lift strap decal is located. The seep is periodic and the egress is always at the galley shelving above the stove area. It  definitely appears as if it is coming between the top/bottom seam.

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[Pauleen Ward Brown]

Ours leaked there enough to rot the wood on the galley shelves. We believed it was the stanchion I did appears not to have leaked over the winter on the hard.

I purchased some spray that's used in the automotive industry for detecting leaks. I don't have the name of it right now because it's on the boat but I'll get it to you later

I purchased some spray that's used in the automotive industry that reveals leaks.

Hubby is going down to the boat today and we'll take a photo and check out the toe rails and get the name of the spray

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[Alptraveler]

Thank u! Yup, it seems to be the same leak area. We are 5 yrs into this boat. P.o. said, note "said", the rails + stansions had been rebedded. B/C his promised recipes for proof of work never appeared we assume we were told what we wanted to hear. Last Resort, same boat 31-2, also has discussed this mystery leak but his is much more intense than mine.

We are heading home today from the boat, a 5 hr drive rt now. Before we leave I will consider heading to the boatyard to take a pick under the toe rail lip to point out my questions.

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[Last Resort]

I've replaced ALL my toe rails with Plasteak, and there are ONLY screws, no nuts or bolts.  Once you start to remove them and get one off, you'll know which screws are for the toe rails and which ones are not....basically all the headed screws are for the toe rails, and the countersunk ones are not. 

[Daniel Hoffman]

I took off a toe-rail last year because it,  the aft starboard, one gets stepped on the most at the finger pier and it came loose. It had been previously repaired by someone who drilled the holes out and put in some sort of material, perhaps epoxy. 

I moved them a bit to have fresh wood to screw into when I put them back on. I had to pre-drill because I worried about splitting the teak. 

Not meaning to jinx anyone, but the job was easier than I had expected. 

Dan (the other one)

Fourth and Goal

Pearson 31-2

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[sides...@aol.com]

Apltraveler,

Just a thought, you may want to re-seal the window above this area.  I had a leak that was dripping through my light fixture under the deck in that same area. It turned out to be a gap at the bottom of the window opening at the cabin cut out. To seal it properly you would have to remove the exterior trim ring outside of the window and recaulk the window to the cabin then reinstall the trim ring.  It solved my problem,

Bob

Blue Moon  31-2

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[pau...@perhapscoaching.com]

Sorry for the delay.  Underneath the toe rail is an aluminum strip so we can’t see the screws for a photo for you!

Sorry!

I hope you have some resolution

 

Pauleen

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[Alptraveler]

Thnx for trying. From the in-put of other people it sounds as if I might have it figured out. I will monitor it this summer and perhaps make it a fall project once it is on the hard. Maybe try a few things 1st to try to finalize the entry point of the very small seep.

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