Bilge Pump/Hose (P-10M)

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Mike Peterson

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May 11, 2021, 8:07:51 AM5/11/21
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Well, after 46 years, the manual bilge hose finally gave!  Looks like it's 1-1/4" PVC hose.  I'm have to replace the hose and I would like to install an auto bilge too.  I'm going to replace the manual bilge hose to the starboard scupper and pipe the auto bilge to the port scupper.

Does anyone have recommendations on a bilge pump for a P 10M?  I'm looking at this one: 

Is there anything particular or lessons learned you've found doing this job?

Thanks!

Mike
Finale 10M
#106

S/Y Where's Jolly

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May 11, 2021, 8:14:56 AM5/11/21
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Rule is the brand that came on my P35. There are a wide selection on Amazon and a little cheaper

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Mike Peterson

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May 11, 2021, 9:43:17 AM5/11/21
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What capacity pump do you have?  Do you have a float switch?

Guy Johnson

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May 11, 2021, 9:46:15 AM5/11/21
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Mike;
I have one of these on Puffin, feeding a 3/4" hose to reduce the volume of the backflow. 

It's a manual pump and has a float switch. With the model you mentioned I think you might have a harder time routing the discharge hose. 

Guy
Puffin 10M #6


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From: pearso...@googlegroups.com <pearso...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Mike Peterson <mjpe...@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2021 9:43 AM
To: pearson-boats <pearso...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [pearson ] Bilge Pump/Hose (P-10M)
 

david.l...@gmail.com

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May 11, 2021, 11:29:34 AM5/11/21
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I’ll chime in here,

 

On the P35 the lowest accessible space in the deep bilge is next to the CB trunk and fairly narrow.

The Rule that would fit was not reliable (multiple units failed and was very pricy), and the previous automatic switch uses a fuse and failed as well.

 

Replaced with the Seaflo pump and new switches  (breaker instead of fuse).

https://www.amazon.com/Seaflo-Automatic-Submersible-Warranty-Magnetic/dp/B07MMNVP6X/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=SEAFLO+Automatic+750GPH+Submersible+Bilge+Water+Pump+4+Year+Warranty&qid=1620746265&sr=8-1

 

This switch seems to be a better choice over the previous one that failed – easier to tell what mode it’s in, and I like the integrated breaker.

https://www.amazon.com/SEAFLO-Switch-Automatic-Off-Manual-Circuit-Breaker/dp/B074WF9855/ref=pd_bxgy_img_2/143-3250660-4528949?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B074WF9855&pd_rd_r=667f252e-63d2-44d1-bd5b-6ae45b1cea1f&pd_rd_w=xZc1E&pd_rd_wg=r9EhE&pf_rd_p=fd3ebcd0-c1a2-44cf-aba2-bbf4810b3732&pf_rd_r=VC7C588S3F7BDW14H1A6&psc=1&refRID=VC7C588S3F7BDW14H1A6

 

I used two pumps – one at the bottom of the bilge pumping out the stbd drain and one mounted about 8 inches higher in the bilge pumping out the port drain.

  • Each is hardwired separately through its own switch to different batteries.
  • The lower one has an over-sized low-restriction backflow preventer.
  • The higher one kicks in if the lower one dies or can’t keep up and has no backflow preventer.

 

  • Separately I have a bilge water alarm on top of the CB trunk (about 6 inches below the floorboards) as required by ABYC - so that I could get insurance on this 51-year old classic.

They want anyone sleeping to be alerted with enough time to escape drowning

 

I also have a separate non-submersible self-priming pump mounted in the port sail-locker, manually switched, and of course, a manual whale in the cockpit.

 

Both pump and switch have high review marks and carry a 4-yr warrantee and are affordable.

  I’ve only had these Seaflo pumps and switches for one season - still in “prove-it-to-me” mode.

 

Hope this is helpful,

-DaveL

Ron Buchanan

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May 11, 2021, 11:39:51 AM5/11/21
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I can tell you what I did, and haven’t looked back. I installed a Jabsco shower/sump diaphragm pump after running through several rule pumps that died.  I installed the pump in the engine compartment, and pipes to the stern with PEX to prevent freeze issues.  I have a strainer before the pump and a check valve before the sump. It’s controlled by the same wiring, and features the rule auto switch. I can provide a listing of part numbers if desired.

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Subject: RE: [pearson ] Bilge Pump/Hose (P-10M)
 

Ron Buchanan

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May 11, 2021, 11:42:16 AM5/11/21
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The beauty with the diaphragm pump… It’ll pass most anything (although the strainer will catch a lot). Four years running with no problems.

From: Ron Buchanan <rbuch...@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2021 11:39:44 AM
To: pearso...@googlegroups.com <pearso...@googlegroups.com>

Mike Peterson

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May 11, 2021, 12:03:36 PM5/11/21
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Thanks for the advice!  Dave: I like that circuit breaker - definitely prefer that over fuses!  I like the detailed description of how you have things configured too.  Can you say more about the low restriction backflow preventer?  

Also, do you have any recommendations on the bilge water alarm?

Thanks Ron!  Yeah, if you have any p/n handy, I'll take a look!

Thanks!

Mike  
Finale 10M
#106

David Walker

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May 11, 2021, 12:09:34 PM5/11/21
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If the lowest point of the bilge is narrow, you can use a self priming pump and run the inlet hose to a strum box strainer that is in the bilge.  That  keeps the pump out of the bilge so it should last longer and is easier to work on. For bigger hulls like the 10m you might want to consider a backup that most big boats use.  Add a "y" valve to your engine raw water inlet so in a real emergency, if your engine is  running you can pump water out of the bilge with the diesel.  Don't forget an anti-siphon loop on the discharge unless you run to a stern through hull that is above the waterline.

Dave W  

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Guy Johnson

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May 11, 2021, 12:57:29 PM5/11/21
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Dave, thanks for the recommendation I just ordered one of the SeaFlow switches. 
The breaker is nice. I'll still have a long run from the battery to the switch, so I think I'll keep the fuse at the battery. 

Guy

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Bill Robart

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May 11, 2021, 2:19:25 PM5/11/21
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If the need to pump the bilge is an emergency situation a scared sailor with a five gallon bucket would be better than the engine pump by a huge factor. An Atomic four or a 3GM Yanmar raw water pump pumps less than 10 gal/min. That’ll take care of a slow leak but not a failed 1.5” seacock. Your choice.

Bill



Jeff Griglack

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May 11, 2021, 3:36:26 PM5/11/21
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Bill,

I have heard the "scared  sailor" thought before, but I doubt your scared sailor with a 5 gallon bucket will last all that long.  10 gallons/minute is 600 gallons/hour.  Put another way, 10 gallons/minute = 2 buckets/minute.  I want to see your do that for an hour.
------------------------------------------------------------------
| Jeff Griglack             "Jabberwocky" P-365 #269
------------------------------------------------------------------
| "Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent"
|                   - Walt Kelly
| 'Years ago my mother used to say to me, she'd say, "In this
| world, Elwood, you must be" – she always called me Elwood –
| "In this world, Elwood, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant."
| Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. You may quote me.'
|               —James Stewart as Elwood P. Dowd
------------------------------------------------------------------


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Dave Cole

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May 11, 2021, 3:58:23 PM5/11/21
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I have had many different boats.  
I have had several Rule pumps and none of them were reliable.

Harbor Freight had some bilge pumps and I wanted to buy two for my 10M.   They were about $30 each years ago.   I later bought a third since I was sure that cheap Harbor freight pumps would die like the Rule pumps did.
Nope....  They are still alive and well 8+ years later.   I have never used the spare.  

Harbor Freight no longer sells this pump, but the last time I looked the same pump was still being made under different names.

I had nothing but misery with float switches so I went with floatless water bilge switches and they have been bullet proof.  

A good centrifugal pump will pump more water than a diaphragm pump.  Plus there are a lot fewer moving parts.  
Also, good diaphragm pumps cost $$.  

Besides the two automatic pumps, I also have the cockpit manual pump.  

I almost lost a boat at a dock overnight when a rivet popped out.   It was a 3/16 rivet and overnight the boat nearly went under.  
The dockmaster saw the boat about to go down the next morning and put a pump into the boat.

Dave
10M #26




On Tue, May 11, 2021 at 2:19 PM Bill Robart <wro...@gmail.com> wrote:
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Peter Trunfio

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May 11, 2021, 4:26:35 PM5/11/21
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I have two (2) bilge pumps on my 10M.

One is a Rule 750...which sits "athwartships in the bilger (need a 90 degree elbow to run the hose aft). This hose ties into the basin hose...which ties in to the starboard cockpit scupper hose.

This pump is the "automatic" bilge pump and is always in "Auto" mode when the boat is in the water.

I too had a couple of these fail. They do not have an external float switch.

The first one I had, had an "internal" float switch. After many years of service, this one finally gave up the ghost.

The second one I had, had a new "internal" solid state water sensor (it only kicks on when it senses 2 1/2" of water, and can sense the difference between water and oil, so it doesn't pump a bilge full of oil over the side). This one failed after one season. And by fail, I mean it would kick on...and not shut off. So it would run down the battery it was hard-wired to.

When I went to get a replacement, the owner of the marine store told me they had a bad batch of sensors, but that the problem had been fixed.

I have now had the second one with the solid state sensor in the bilge for an entire season...hoping to launch this week. So far, no complaints.

Depending on how "wet" your bilge is and/or how "dirty" your bilge is, you may need to clean the housing every now and then if scum builds up on the sensor housing.

The second bilge pump is a Jabsco Water Puppy mounted in the engine compartment. It is a similar set up to what has previously been described on this thread. This is on a manual "On/Off" switch. There is a hose with an old strum box strainer in the deepest part of the very narrow 10M bilge.

There is an in-line strainer BEFORE the Water Puppy pump. This pump too ties into the basin hose...which ties into the starboard cockpit scupper hose.

Both of these systems were in place when I bought Hull #66 in 2007. All I've done is replace the pumps themselves over the years.

Hope this helps...

PMT

Peter M. Trunfio
s/v Annandale
Pearson 10M #66
Harlem Yacht Club
City Island, NY



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Jeff Griglack

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May 11, 2021, 6:24:14 PM5/11/21
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When I bought my P30, there was a Rule bulge pump on a manual switch. I never got around to installing an automatic switch, but I did install a manual pump. When I sold the boat, 20 years later, it has the same, still working, pump.  In have to wonder what you guys are doing to break these pumps :).

Jeff


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Bill Robart

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May 11, 2021, 7:27:18 PM5/11/21
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Jeff,

I don’t have to bail for an hour. I only have to do it until the batteries or engine go under water. 

Assuming a big influx of water the best thing to do is to try to stop the leak or get ready to abandon ship in an orderly fashion or hope the primary bilge pump will stay ahead of the water for long enough to beach the boat or get it into a travel lift. 

The engine or the bucket won’t save you from serious breach of the hull. Finding the problem and fixing it is likely the only way to save the boat if you can’t get to shore before you run out of engine , battery power, and human energy.

Bill

Bill Robart

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May 11, 2021, 7:39:08 PM5/11/21
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I had only one pump fail and that was from hair stopping the pumps impeller.

After that I bought a pump that you could access the impeller by removing it he motor from the mounting bracket. The previous pump was heat welded to gather so it was not serviceable (a Rule pump).

I also kept the bilge as free from debris as I could. It got hosed clean every spring before the boat was launched.

Bill


Jeff Griglack

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May 11, 2021, 8:25:47 PM5/11/21
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Or, maybe you could be fixing/plugging the hole while the engine pump is pumping water instead of having to waste your time with a bucket.  It seems to me that any help you can get, in an emergency, is well worth it.

What I was getting at bilge pumps are measured in gallons per hour and you were saying that an engine pump running at 10 gallons per minute is still 600 gallons per hour.  The original proposed pump was just over 1000 gph.  600 isn't 1000, but it's 60% of that, which is significant.
------------------------------------------------------------------
| Jeff Griglack             "Jabberwocky" P-365 #269
------------------------------------------------------------------
| "Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent"
|                   - Walt Kelly
| 'Years ago my mother used to say to me, she'd say, "In this
| world, Elwood, you must be" – she always called me Elwood –
| "In this world, Elwood, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant."
| Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. You may quote me.'
|               —James Stewart as Elwood P. Dowd
------------------------------------------------------------------

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pearson-boats/CAFqcws4ZrHrmQc%3DA%3DdAp%3DriOo5D99-T-ButH_M%3Djen9j%2BRk8Mg%40mail.gmail.com.

Guy Johnson

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May 12, 2021, 5:44:16 AM5/12/21
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I’ve had the same Rule 1500 and manual float switch in Puffin since 1987. 
Guy

On May 11, 2021, at 3:58 PM, Dave Cole <dave...@gmail.com> wrote:



Dave Cole

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May 12, 2021, 8:59:05 AM5/12/21
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I suspect Rules more expensive pumps are of higher quality than the pumps sold at WalMart, etc.  
Still, some pumps are clearly over priced considering how long they last.

One of the nice features of the Atwood switch I linked to, is that when power is first applied, the pump will run for a second.  So if I want to check that the pumps are working, I just switch the power off and on, the pumps spin, and I know things are good.   That's a very smart feature.

Dave
10M


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