replacing clock on P31-2 electrical panel

[Last Resort]

I know it's a simple solution by just disconnecting it and sticking another clock of sorts over it, but I'm wondering if anyone has found a nice clock to wire in that can replace the old existing TIMEWATCH that's connected to the system with something more digital LED that use's less than the 0.05amps the existing one uses. It was actually this clock that drained my AGMs this spring after the batteries were charged by my marina, but left connected with the battery switch in the OFF position thinking that was suffice, but the clock is always connected, at least mine is. The most I've managed is to connect it to the RADIO breaker and it blinks all night, but still at 0.03amps. Thanks in advance for any advice or suggestions. 

[Guy Johnson]

If the clock is connected to the radio circuit breaker and that breaker is off, the clock shouldn't be drawing any power at all. 

Are there more than two wires on the clock? Where does it get power to blink all night?

I have a small 23W solar panel with built in charger the I use to keep my batteries topped off. 

Guy

Puffin 10M #6

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From: pearso...@googlegroups.com <pearso...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Last Resort <lastre...@gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2021 10:14 PM
To: pearson-boats <pearso...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [pearson ] replacing clock on P31-2 electrical panel

 

I know it's a simple solution by just disconnecting it and sticking another clock of sorts over it, but I'm wondering if anyone has found a nice clock to wire in that can replace the old existing TIMEWATCH that's connected to the system with something more digital LED that use's less than the 0.05amps the existing one uses. It was actually this clock that drained my AGMs this spring after the batteries were charged by my marina, but left connected with the battery switch in the OFF position thinking that was suffice, but the clock is always connected, at least mine is. The most I've managed is to connect it to the RADIO breaker and it blinks all night, but still at 0.03amps. Thanks in advance for any advice or suggestions. 

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[Dave Cole]

Guy, 

Any recommendations on your 23 watt solar charger?  Would you buy the one you have again?  

Dave

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[Last Resort]

There are 3 wires with 2 fuses connected since new and until now I haven't tinkered with it. Disconnecting either fuse will cut the power to the clock, but otherwise it at least always blinks at half power, which btw pointed out an issue once that my main 40Amp fuse for the boat had a loose connection and the clock would blink when that happened till I found the issue. 

As for the battery topping up, I have a 240W on the boat, but would never use it or any size solar as they can't work through snow, and there's too much wear and tear on the life of the batteries.  I've never had a problem with FULLY charged batteries making it through a winter after disconnecting all the wires, but Covid extended it to 2 winters and that was what worried me last fall when I had them charged by the Marina.....which they did again this spring on their own and caused my clock issues killing them.   I've since discovered that most AGMs should be able to make it through 2 winters with their low discharge rates. 

[Guy Johnson]

sorry everyone I answered on the wrong thread. 

The panel I have is the Solbian 23w all in one. The MPPT controller is built into the panel, just hook the two wires to the battery. I

t's semi flexible allowing it to be secured to a gently curved surface or to a bimini. 

I ordered it from OceanPlanet Energy. 

https://oceanplanetenergy.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/86/2019/10/Solbian-Price-Specs.pdf

Guy

Puffin 10M #6

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Subject: Re: [pearson ] replacing clock on P31-2 electrical panel

 

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[Robert Franklin]

Guy,

You find 23w adequate to keep your batteries topped off?  When I set up my solar panels a couple years ago I was persuaded by my online reading that the two 125w each would be barely enough.

I discovered a couple things about solar panels that may help others.

The first year I had solar panels aboard was summer 2019 and they seemed to help keep the batteries charged although not fully and then only when the sun was direct.  I was not sure what was happening at night, but I believe the controller prevents back feed, meaning the process by which the batteries feed back through the panels and become discharged.  (Remember, I am a real amateur at this even though I've tried to educate myself.)

The 3 lead acid batteries were Interstate new from Cosco and I did enough investigation to decide they were very good quality deep cycle.  One was a standard starting battery.  Everything seemed fine until I returned to the boat spring 2020 after winter storage of 9 months to find all of the batteries rock solid dead.

Here is my theory of what happened.

A couple things.  First the solar panels were arrayed throughout the storage period and somehow were draining the batteries during the dark times, which in winter are more than the sunny times.

Second, something I just discovered this past week.  I have a signet wind speed indicator wired direct to the batteries, not through the 1-2-ALL switch.  Not sure why I wired it this way, but I must have assumed the analog dial powered by the spinner at the top of the mast provided current to move the dial to register the wind speed and thus would not be a power drain. Not so, I now find out.  There is a small toggle switch at the back of the Signet wind speed indicator.  I have it labeled on and with the electric compartment generally closed I never see it to be aware of the setting.  Plus, I assumed it didn't matter.  Now I think the wind speed system must have drained the batteries during the 9 months of storage.  Maybe that doesn't seem possible, but that's one part of my drain-to-dead theory in addition to the possibility the panels themselves were draining the batteries.

I changed my winter protocols this past winter without being aware of the on/off switch for the Signet.  Every couple months I would go to the boat and turn on the AC Battery charger set up with a 10 hour timer. This seemed to keep everything charged up just fine.

From some recent reading my approach this year will be different.  First, I now switch the Signet off each time I leave the boat and will keep it off for the winter.  I also disconnect the positive lead to the battery that originates at the Solar Panel.  Although difficult to reach, I think I should also disconnect all connections to the batteries. I think of installing a heavy duty switch for future convenience and I don't know if it is necessary to remove the positive and the ground, or just the positive.

I also wonder what other "parasites" might be sucking juice off the batteries that I am not aware of.  For example I also have a Danforth battery charge indicator for #1s and #2.  It has its own switch for the off setting.

Maybe others have some of these same problems.

Finally another thing I found a little confusing is my Solar Panel Controller reads 0.00 "Charge current amps" even in brilliant sunlight, but the leads from the two panels read 24 volts. It is frustrating because it looks like nothing is happening through the controller.  However, someone quite smart on electrical problems has suggested this is perfectly normal because the batteries (now at 12.6 volts) are not calling for charge, so the controller is not delivering any. This is the controller's function to prevent overcharging, gassing and the like.

Does that make sense to you?

Anyone else want to comment?

Bob Franklin

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[Last Resort]

sorry, but I was looking for a clock replacement and now this threads all about solar panels. Can we get back on track please? 

[Dave Cole]

I think you are going at this incorrectly.   .050 amps, while it's not insignificant, isn't substantial.  I'd either wire the clock into a switch and mark it winter/summer and forget about it.  Or pull the cables off the batteries.  You have plenty of solar to keep things charged in the summer.  . O5 amps is .6 watts.  Unless you need your clock functional in the winter, I think this is a fix.  

Regarding snow and solar panels.  I'm not in deep snow country but we get feet per year here.  Almost all of the Amish farms around me have solar panels which are pitched.  There might be snow on them for a few days, but that's about it.  If you pitch a small panel to the south, and used a decent charge controller you wouldn't need to worry about your clock or your batteries.  25 watts would be plenty.  

The only reason I can think of as to why you'd have two hot wires going to your clock is that you'd have a power wire, and a light/illumination wire.  

Perhaps your clock is malfunctioning?

Or did I misread and you simply want to replace it.

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[Guy Johnson]

0.05amps x 24 hours = 1.2AmpHours 

So that small draw is consuming 1.2 AH per day, 36 AH per month, etc. 

Yes, the clock will drain your batteries over a prolonged absence. 

I suggest replacing the clock with a AA battery operated one. 

Yes, the 23W panel with MPPT controller is enough to keep my house bank (225AH) topped up. 23 watts is not enough to charge my house bank, I use the alternator for that. I can shut off the engine with the house bank in the 90% range and during her time on the mooring the panel will bring the batteries back up to 100% and keep up with the occasional bilge pump use. 

Bob;

Your wind instruments should not be wired directly to the battery, but you already know that. 

All but the smallest solar panels should be connected to the batteries through a charge controller, which will handle issues with backflow and overcharging. 

250-watt panels are capable of producing 19+ amps of current at 13v, more than enough to keep your batteries charged. Are your batteries flooded lead acid? If so, they were probably in need of water after 9 months of time. 

 "(now at 12.6 volts) are not calling for charge," you'll have to read the manual and confirm this statement. I think it's more likely that your controller should be supplying a float charge when the battery is nearly full charge. 

Guy

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To: pearso...@googlegroups.com <pearso...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [pearson ] replacing clock on P31-2 electrical panel

 

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[Dave Cole]

I have a number of vehicles that don't move often.   I began using battery maintainers to keep the batteries in good shape.  I tried several brands, Harbor Freight, Stanley and several others.  A lost a few batteries when they failed.  This isn't rocket science yet the majority of the battery maintainers are poorly designed junk.    Battery Tenders have been great for me. I suspect that solar chargers/ maintainers have the same issue.  I tried one and it killed the battery.   Whatever I do with solar maintainers will be tested, before I hook it up to an expensive battery bank.  I learned my lessons with AC battery maintainers.  That was an expensive lesson.

So I think you need to choose carefully.  

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[Last Resort]

thanks for the suggestions, but as i stated in my opening I know there are very simple solutions, but I'd like to maintain the originality of the circuit board and replace it with a clock that is wired in and is a pure LED, and that's my question:  Has anyone found one?   thanks!

[Dave Cole]

Last Resort,

I guess I don't understand what you'd like to do.  Is this clock soldered into a circuit board, that's part of some type of assembly?  

Do you have picts?  

Dave

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[Dan Pfeiffer]

The clock in question was part of the electric panel setup on  late 80's Pearsons. I have one of these panels.  The clock still runs but some segments of the LED display are not working.  It's pretty small.  The digits are about 1/2" tall.   The clock has black, red and yellow wires that go like this:

Black = Ground
Red = 12V from battery (always connected to keep time)
Yellow = 12V after main battery switch to turn clock display on/off.

I hooked the clock up to my fancy Simpson bench meter and got .0003 amps with just the red power lead connected and an astounding 0.13 amps with the yellow display wire connected and the display on.  That would work out to about 3AH per day if that display is left on.  That will kill a group 31 battery in 30 days.  With the display off (yellow disconnected) it is about 0.2AH per month?  Probably less than the lead acid self discharge. 

 

The panel also has a small drawing of the blat with nav light indicators that are small incandescent bulbs (not led) and a switch to set running lights for sail or power modes. 
The panel I have was from a late 80's P33 that was upgraded.  It's sort of neat for the nav light display and I have thought about using it and re-fitting it with LED's.  The panels is from Bass Products who also supplied the breaker panel on my '78 10M.  I would not call it high end stuff.    Just OK. 


I see some LED vehicle clocks on ebay that are similar but all seem to be larger.

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2334524.m570.l1313&_nkw=led+vehicle+clock&_sacat=0&LH_TitleDesc=0&_osacat=0&_odkw=led+vehicle+clock


Here's something close but I don't know if the display can be switched off independent of the clock time keeping.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/183789728512?_trkparms=aid%3D1110018%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.COMPLISTINGS%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D233120%26meid%3Dc2815185658242098d084c98d203d0a0%26pid%3D101196%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D114352320620%26itm%3D183789728512%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DItemStripV101HighAdFeeWithCompV3Ranker%26brand%3DUnbranded&_trksid=p2047675.c101196.m2219&amdata=cksum%3A183789728512c2815185658242098d084c98d203d0a0%7Cenc%3AAQAGAAACEAEkRmrLc5g8p4MCeN6vcdXEVcXHH5PQ2b6S5YoG3j257DuejQR6zWtzEXrmj%252FN3dpWgXd3THO1s1J7poNu6hlLXhUFy6%252FQka1XKXF4aQhvQP9B%252B6R8kA%252FmS%252BvEXXIJd7%252FZuvvUURIXiPBAwtsU9M4NmdKU6yOIMmxSJi1xi3N5TWab1YvnP%252Fz6VSu1dZK23Ez3dZJ%252FJ%252BnRPK8NBavC9CFhmATO1ttbdmBoK6Den7LSgSAZwry9SWJleJYKu8hEZZ8kMdrxatTvuwp4zctA9R2%252FT8yIYgk9ThnsEEG%252FzufnvBrQtHiURy9z%252FZ6n2ASMn93%252BttCPW7AlNbgcReyMQXJSUsj7ZR8MZ0dtIc4rfIOZUsNu0HG%252F3Kk%252BGLkVwddfBvH1CiaL6ll6bjV61AkmMfC6qNqk1K0MyuZ57LC%252FTI4T0lIapTUkQdPpt4SQHmoSX7IHAYhiFN7Wz3l3B2oDBoIHSW4wHYeLPIfONEQGqkR0PHe83i%252BQ%252BWe588iEP3BvKILhi%252FiEFdK0PHt4QZIcJZm68eRWP9505mEEOwGMXWkwikPCAFS1Hj7msOZpn%252Fwe0pFUpqZ4guRTy64awVeDAC%252Fvc0PoYMMAYTk%252BzvOb83RJV1ML5K6%252FsC1oNuHdNdKeYmUnv68Qeb%252B70cI9op8r3E34cOLfs0C6yU9Ni5lLa4iOHKxt3rcxLLzO7fld5Wmlh8w%253D%253D%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2047675

An LCD display would have lower power consumption. 


Dan Pfeiffer

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[Last Resort]

THANKS Dan, I guess I should've posted it as thorough as this in the first place...WELL DONE!!!   and exact. I was just fishing to see if someone had replaced it on a 31-2, but guess I may be the first if I do find one.  So when my clock in blinking, the yellow wire is disconnected when I turn the Radio breaker off, still leaving me with 0.0003 amps.  And your links have given me some nice ideas. I was thinking of a replacement that would fit from the back, but from the front would work too if its flush mount.  There's room to cut the hole bigger with some fine work, although at 2.5" wide, so far the clocks are too small, but I could work with that if necessary. 

Thanks again for this and other suggestions. Except for actual clock finds or recommendations, I'll consider this thread done till I update it, most likely next season :) 

[Andrew Milkovits]

One final suggestion...build your own!  It could be a fun winter project.  Digikey should have everything you need.  This display sounds like it may be the right size: 

Digikey Panel

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[Jeff Collemer]

I did replace the clock on my P36-2 with one suggested above (LED vehicle clock).  I have solar panels and keep the batteries charged in the winter, so amperage wasn't a factor.  Also, I don't care to shut the clock off.  Having said that, I have attached a picture.  I did have to create a slim plastic frame around it to close up the approx. 1/32" gap it would have left on the sides.

-Jeff Collemer

[Last Resort]

Thank you for this, as it was exactly what I was looking for and it looks great!  

[Bill Robart]

I understand the desire to replace the clock for aesthetic reasons but still do not see why a clock is either necessary or desirable in the electric panel. I wear a watch and carry a cell phone so knowing what time it is isn’t ever a question and even if it were the electric panel seems an odd place for a clock.

Bill

On Tue, Jul 20, 2021 at 8:25 AM Last Resort <lastre...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[Last Resort]

well the first thing I do to begin my 3 month stay on the boat is to put my watch away.  Also when I get up in the middle of the night I like to know what time it is, so that's why I need the clock. 

[Bill Robart]

I’m not dismissing the need for a clock on your, or my, boat, it just seems  there could be a more appropriate place for it than the electric panel. 

On my first boat I had no clock but on both of my next boats I had one mounted on the bulkhead support structure for the mast where I could see it from the cockpit and anywhere in the main cabin. We always slept in the “V” berth where I couldn’t see it and the watch would suffice. Both of those boats had electric panels visible from the main cabin only.  On the first boats a watch was used for navigation but when LORAN came along the watch became unnecessary and now with GPS it’s simply to satisfy the curiosity as to what time it is. 

I hope you find a suitable replacement for your clock.

Bill

On Thu, Jul 22, 2021 at 9:00 AM Last Resort <lastre...@gmail.com> wrote:

well the first thing I do to begin my 3 month stay on the boat is to put my watch away.   when I get up in the middle of the night I like to know what time it is, so that's why I need the clock. 

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