Merriman furler

[James Mcmurray]

I probalyhave the original furler, a Merriman on my P27. when I looked at the boat I noticed that the halyard, which is internal
was bundled up at the foot of the sail. I asked and the owner said that was the halyard and it had to be bundled so it could
be used to lower the sail. being familiar with the CDI furlers I wondered why there wasnt the same scheme.
Now that I won the boat I am puzzled why this is.
Any ideas, from P27 owners please.

[Richard Usen]

I used to own a Merriman furler and the halyard was wire, reel-winched at the mast. The halyard was not bunched at the bottom. I liked it. If it acted up, I just rolled the sail as much as I could and dropped the sail to the deck. I then rolled the sail into a big "hoop" until I could hoist it properly and furl it tight. Is that what you have?

Richard Usen
use...@verizon.net

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[James Mcmurray]

No, my furleris a type B unit, it has an internal halyard that travels down the other groove in the foil. problem is when thwe jib is up, the halyard which raised it is down and must be bundled at the bottom of the furler. since the furler rotates to unfurl the jib the halyard must be bundled or it will be wound up. am I making myself clear? I think I'll take a picture to help in understanding the problem and post it.

[Guy Johnson]

cut the extra halyard off, tie it back on when it's time to lower the sail. 

Guy

Sent from Outlook

---

From: pearso...@googlegroups.com <pearso...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of James Mcmurray <jmsmc...@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 8, 2017 8:33 AM
To: pearson-boats
Subject: Re: [pearson ] Merriman furler

 

[James Mcmurray]

these pictures will hopefully illustrate the problem. as you can see, the halyard goes into the left groove in the foil and can not be cut and retied.

[Guy Johnson]

my old cruising designs fuller had a wire halyard that terminated in a bronze slide that rode in the second slot, a short tail of rope connected to the outside part of the bronze fitting. 

Perhaps you could fashion a plastic piece that worked in a similar fashion? I don't know how you would terminate the end of the rope. 

I'm very pleased with my new Harken roller furler. 

Guy

Sent from Outlook

---

From: pearso...@googlegroups.com <pearso...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of James Mcmurray <jmsmc...@gmail.com>

Sent: Sunday, October 8, 2017 1:00 PM

[Jeff Griglack]

The CDI furler that I had on my Catalina 22 expected you to attach a halyard extension to the internal halyard for raising and lower the sail.  Then, once the sail was raised, you would just remove the extension and tie off the halyard.  Can you do something like that with this one?

Jeff

------------------------------------------------------------------
| Jeff Griglack                  "Blithe Spirit" P-30 #182
------------------------------------------------------------------
| "Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent"
|                   - Walt Kelly
| 'Years ago my mother used to say to me, she'd say, "In this
| world, Elwood, you must be" – she always called me Elwood –
| "In this world, Elwood, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant."
| Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. You may quote me.'
|               —James Stewart as Elwood P. Dowd
------------------------------------------------------------------

On Sun, Oct 8, 2017 at 1:27 PM, Guy Johnson <guy...@hotmail.com> wrote:

my old cruising designs fuller had a wire halyard that terminated in a bronze slide that rode in the second slot, a short tail of rope connected to the outside part of the bronze fitting. 

Perhaps you could fashion a plastic piece that worked in a similar fashion? I don't know how you would terminate the end of the rope. 

I'm very pleased with my new Harken roller furler. 

Guy

Sent from Outlook

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[James Mcmurray]

No, the CDI Furler had an internal object which allowed sliding.
it was probably an FF4 furler, an FF6 is indicated if I was to get one.
the FF6 has a cable halyard with a metal traveler atteched.
One thing I am persuing is getting such a halyard from CDI and using my halyard to
pull it through (not about to lower the mast as the yard charges 250$).
This might be a solution but still have unknowns to investigate with CDI.

On Sunday, October 8, 2017 at 3:53:16 PM UTC-4, Jeff wrote:

The CDI furler that I had on my Catalina 22 expected you to attach a halyard extension to the internal halyard for raising and lower the sail.  Then, once the sail was raised, you would just remove the extension and tie off the halyard.  Can you do something like that with this one?

Jeff

------------------------------------------------------------------
| Jeff Griglack                  "Blithe Spirit" P-30 #182
------------------------------------------------------------------
| "Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent"
|                   - Walt Kelly
| 'Years ago my mother used to say to me, she'd say, "In this
| world, Elwood, you must be" – she always called me Elwood –
| "In this world, Elwood, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant."
| Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. You may quote me.'
|               —James Stewart as Elwood P. Dowd
------------------------------------------------------------------

On Sun, Oct 8, 2017 at 1:27 PM, Guy Johnson <guy...@hotmail.com> wrote:

my old cruising designs fuller had a wire halyard that terminated in a bronze slide that rode in the second slot, a short tail of rope connected to the outside part of the bronze fitting. 

Perhaps you could fashion a plastic piece that worked in a similar fashion? I don't know how you would terminate the end of the rope. 

I'm very pleased with my new Harken roller furler. 

Guy

Sent from Outlook

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Does this furler let you do a running headsails change and then roll the
new sail? In other words, can you unroll sail, raise new sail, roll in
new sail. Or do you have to drop first sail to raise new sail?

If you cannot do this running headsails change as I described, what is
the advantage of the halyard in the foil? You really need two halyards
is the foil for this. I might just pull that off and use the jib
halyard in the conventional manner.

Alternatively, can the tail of the halyard be secured to the head of the
sail and go up with it leaving only a few feet to be secured at the
base. That will mean a free line messing with airflow and perhaps being
generally in the way.


Dan Pfeiffer

>> | —James Stewart [1] as Elwood P. Dowd

>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>> On Sun, Oct 8, 2017 at 1:27 PM, Guy Johnson <guy...@hotmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> my old cruising designs fuller had a wire halyard that terminated in
>> a bronze slide that rode in the second slot, a short tail of rope
>> connected to the outside part of the bronze fitting.
>>
>> Perhaps you could fashion a plastic piece that worked in a similar
>> fashion? I don't know how you would terminate the end of the rope.
>>
>> I'm very pleased with my new Harken roller furler.
>>
>> Guy
>>

>> Sent from Outlook [2]
>>
>> -------------------------
>>
>> FROM: pearso...@googlegroups.com <pearso...@googlegroups.com> on

>> behalf of James Mcmurray <jmsmc...@gmail.com>

>> SENT: Sunday, October 8, 2017 1:00 PM
>>
>> TO: pearson-boats
>> SUBJECT: Re: [pearson ] Merriman furler
>>
>> [3]
>>
>> [4]

>>
>> these pictures will hopefully illustrate the problem. as you can
>> see, the halyard goes into the left groove in the foil and can not
>> be cut and retied.
>>
>> On Sunday, October 8, 2017 at 10:19:23 AM UTC-4, Guy J wrote:
>>
>> cut the extra halyard off, tie it back on when it's time to lower
>> the sail.
>>
>> Guy
>>

>> Sent from Outlook [2]
>>
>> -------------------------
>>
>> FROM: pearso...@googlegroups.com <pearso...@googlegroups.com> on

>> behalf of James Mcmurray <jmsmc...@gmail.com>

>> SENT: Sunday, October 8, 2017 8:33 AM
>> TO: pearson-boats
>> SUBJECT: Re: [pearson ] Merriman furler

>> [5].
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout [6].

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[Jeff Griglack]

I have to assume that they did this for the same reason CDI does it.  This eliminates the need for a swivel a the top of the furler.  The boat's jib halyard is never used to raise or lower the sail, only the internal one is used, and that swivels with the rest of the furling system.  This makes the furling system simpler and cheaper to produce.  Of course, it eliminates the ability to change the tension of the head sail.

I found the CDI system adequate on my last boat, but it was head-and-shoulders above the system that came with the boat.  The system that came with the boat had a wire sewn into the luff which attached to the drum at the base and and a swivel at the top.  The swivel hanked onto the fore stay, but there was no there connection to the fore stay.  The whole sale flew slightly behind the head stay, and, when fully tightened, it would catch on the head stay when furling.  I would have to de-tension the sail, then furl it.

Jeff

------------------------------------------------------------------
| Jeff Griglack                  "Blithe Spirit" P-30 #182
------------------------------------------------------------------
| "Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent"
|                   - Walt Kelly
| 'Years ago my mother used to say to me, she'd say, "In this
| world, Elwood, you must be" – she always called me Elwood –
| "In this world, Elwood, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant."
| Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. You may quote me.'

|               —James Stewart as Elwood P. Dowd
------------------------------------------------------------------

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Links:
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[2] http://aka.ms/weboutlook
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[Richard Usen]

You're quite right about the problems w/ the Merriman but you forgot the rest of the problems. My jib was about 700 sq feet and it did snag the headstay if the tensions in the two wires weren't the same. The major advantage was the ease in changing jibs. The trick was to adjust the tensions as best you could and roll the jib loosely. Then you could drop the jib on the deck w/ the luff slack. You then had a clear forestay and a mostly furled jib. If you wanted a smaller jib, you disconnected the top and bottom snapshackles and connected the new jib instead. When I got a modern furler (Harken) in a modern boat, I lost the ability to change jibs. I also solved the issue of the forestay snagging the wire luff. This is why you never see these furlers any more. They did have the advantages tho. My jib reportedly was the first furler to race to Bermuda. I had several spare jibs, all rolled on their wires and stored below as big hoops. Progress....

Richard Usen
use...@verizon.net

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Griglack <grig...@gmail.com>
To: pearson-boats <pearso...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Mon, Oct 9, 2017 8:30 am
Subject: Re: [pearson ] Merriman furler

[Richard Usen]

I've lost the thread I think. Sorry. I'm talking about a Merriman furler I owned in the middle 60s that likely was installed in the late 1930s when the boat was built. 

My jib was intended to be set on the fly. It had a 1x19 wire sewn into the luff. The sail was hoisted more or less furled and then unrolled. The halyard tension was more or less the same as the forestay tension. This was important, or the halyard and forestay would lock up as they wrapped. The first couple of hoists needed some tweaking to get this right. But, once this was done, the jibs could be set flying. Until that time, hoisting was more or less a crapshoot. It did have it's advantages tho. Being able to change jibs on the fly was great. I never did that but regularly dumped it on the deck if it was blowing hard to furl at the mooring. That ability came in handy sometimes. I had several jibs and having them rolled up into hoops and stored below was definitely handy. I've seen several jibs like this on P-26s made by other companies. 

Dan, I sold my boat and will be dropping off the list soon. I've enjoyed our chats. Thank you.    

Richard Usen
use...@verizon.net

-----Original Message-----
From: Dan Pfeiffer <d...@pfeiffer.net>
To: pearson-boats <pearso...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sun, Oct 8, 2017 11:55 pm
Subject: Re: [pearson ] Merriman furler

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[Bill Robart]

Dan,

I've never been a fan of roller furling systems but if there is a furler that allows removing a sail that could be rolled after raising a second sail that could also be rolled I'd be a bit more inclined to have one on a boat. Is there such a system????

Bill

On Sun, Oct 8, 2017 at 11:55 PM, Dan Pfeiffer <d...@pfeiffer.net> wrote:

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[Richard Usen]

There isn't but used to be...  (roll sail, drop on deck, hoist rolled sail, unroll). I'm not advocating this furler as it's disadvantages outweigh it's advantages. It was a quirk in the design continuum. In England in the 20s, or likely earlier, a similar fuller was used w/ a chain luff to provide the torque to roll the sail. This was certainly more lo-tech than than the two-groove foil that was sold in the 60s. Was this another of Ted Hood designs?

Richard Usen
use...@verizon.net

-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Robart <wro...@gmail.com>
To: pearson-boats <pearso...@googlegroups.com>

Sent: Mon, Oct 9, 2017 10:47 am
Subject: Re: [pearson ] Merriman furler

[James Mcmurray]

Hi Dan
This is an old Merriman furler, one sail, no external halyard on boat.
Did you look at the pictures I posted in one of my replies?

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Bill, I agree with you. I know of no such system either. It would take
two halyards and a sheave box and space for the line and.... basically
a small spar for the furling foil. Sounds so simple.

>> [1]
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[Richard Usen]

Isn't that essentially is what my PO did when he installed a second halyard on my 2-groove foil? 2 halyards, two sets of sheets.

Richard Usen
use...@verizon.net

-----Original Message-----
From: Dan Pfeiffer <d...@pfeiffer.net>
To: pearson-boats <pearso...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Mon, Oct 9, 2017 2:20 pm
Subject: Re: [pearson ] Merriman furler

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[Bill Robart]

Dick,

No, all  two halyards and two sets of sheets did was allow flying two headsails at the same time without having to lower the first sail before raising the second. Once the second sail was flying neither sail could be rolled up. The swivel on the foil is going to be fouled by the second halyard as it isn't attached to the swivel. 

Bill

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[Dan Pfeiffer]

I was speaking hypothetically of what it would take to have a furling
unit that allowed the running g headsails change as described. Seems a
bit much to squeeze in. Maybe new hi-tech lines like deneyma make it
more possible. But still a lot of parts.

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[Richard Usen]

Makes sense. Thanx.

Richard Usen
use...@verizon.net

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From: Bill Robart <wro...@gmail.com>
To: pearson-boats <pearso...@googlegroups.com>