10M winch sizes

[darin doherty]

Greetings all, and hope everyone has a wonderful Thanksgiving.

So, for all the experienced 10M owners in the group.  One of the projects I would like to add to my list is to add a pair of secondary winches for spinnaker and a pair on the cabin top for the main and various mast controls.

I was wondering if any one had suggestions for sizes.

I would like to mount the secondary/spinnaker winches behind the primary (43s I believe) on the coaming and probably something smaller on either side of the cabin top for halyards possibly main.

Thanks in advance for the advice.

Regards,

Darin Doherty.

P10 #108, Canaveral Fl.

[Guy Johnson]

40’s are the same size as 30’s. 

I have 40’s for my spinnaker. 

I’d like something larger than the 43’s for the Genoa. 

Don’t see any need for cabin top winches. 

On Nov 26, 2024, at 6:07 PM, darin doherty <usf...@gmail.com> wrote:

Greetings all, and hope everyone has a wonderful Thanksgiving.

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[Peter Trunfio]

Darin,

Last month (Oct. 25th), Al Taylor posted a question about cabin top clutches for leading lines aft to cabin top winches. I think that post also mentioned possibly replacing Non-ST winches on the cockpit coaming with STs…you might want to check that thread out.

I responded that, about 10 years ago, I replaced the non-ST primaries on Annandale (1974 Pearson 10M) with Harken Radial 46.2 STCs (Self-Tailing/Chrome).

I went on to say that I opted not to replace the smaller spinnaker winches. I simply removed them and didn’t replace them.

What I didn’t say in that email is that I actually BOUGHT Harken 35.2 STCs to replace the smaller spinnaker winches.

Not sure if this helps answer your sizing question or not? As I recall, this was a like-for-like size replacement for the old spinnaker winches.

But after installing the 46.2 STC “primaries,” I opted NOT to install the 35.2 STCs. As such, they have been sitting in my locker at the club ever since. Never even came out of the box.

This is the Harken 35.2 STC (Black/Chrome):

https://www.harken.com/en/shop/radial/35-self-tailing-radial-chrome-winch-2-speed/

I did a very quick, cursory look on-line.

Looks like they are currently selling for about $1,500 at West Marine. I’m sure you could do better than that if you spent more time looking. Not sure if you can buy direct from Harken?

Point is, if you, or anyone else for that matter, is interested in 2 x Harken Radial 35.2 STC winches…”new old stock” (i.e., never used, never installed), I’d be happy to let them go for a good price…plus shipping.

PMT

Peter M. Trunfio

S/V Annandale

City Island, NY

+1.917.640.6450 (c)

[darin doherty]

Thanks Peter, 

But, right now there are too many projects around both the house and boat.  I am trying to get an idea for my future projects to prepare as I can.

Why did you not install the winches for the spinnaker?  BTW, My boat does not seem to have ever had any installed.  Is ti that the spinnaker and genoa are never used at the same time?  Maybe it is not such a good idea to have both if not needed.

I am interested in your reasoning not to install the spinnaker / secondary winches.

Thanks for the responses above.

Darin

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[Peter McGowan]

Hey Darin,

I believe when there’s a pair the forward ones are for the headsail (running through blocks forward of the cockpit) and the aft ones for the spinnaker (running through turning blocks aft of the cockpit).    I use the forward winches and blocks for my jib and the aft winches and blocks for my larger light wind sails.  But I may get schooled by the group…

Peter

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[Dan Pfeiffer]

Guy,

I don't understand "40's are the same size as 30's..."
What?  Is it different winch sizing scales for some specific winch? 

I have Barient 27's for primaries.  They use a different sizing scheme and than current winches and a Barient 27 is equivalent to a 48.  For primaries I could do with a bit more some of the time.  I have a ratchet handle which is a great help for that last little bit when the load is high (like 20+ knots upwind).

10M's that came with OEM spinnaker setup had 43 primaries and 30 secondaries which were aft on the coamings. 

If you are going to have winched on the cabin top and the lines from the mast are through clutches then you could use those winches for spinnaker sheeting.  We do that on my friend's J35.  Might be a bit easier to lead the line on that due to the deck arrangement but I would have a look at the feasibility on a 10M.  The spinnaker sheet runs to a turning block aft then forward on the rail to a turning block near the front of the cockpit to get a fair lead to the cabin top winch.   If you put 30's or so on the cabin top that would be good for secondaries and more than enough for the mast lines.  And you would only need 2 additional winches assuming the lead for spinnaker sheets could be worked out. 

Caveat - larger winch than needed for a particular task (like 30's for halyards) will be a bit slower.  Is that acceptable?  Probably?


On my 10M the cabin top is clear.  And I mean completely clear.  No lines aft, no winches, no nothing.  Like a vast plane of desolation and opportunity.  And I resist any effort to change that.   It might be nice to have ready access to halyard tension, outhaul, etc... But so far, not enough to spoil my clean cabin top.  To have reefing from the cockpit would require at least 5 lines (main halyard, 2 lines for each reef). Then you might as well have outhaul, cunningham, jib halyards, spin halyards, pole lift, ...   No point in not having all of them? A lot of cockpit spaghetti? 
http://dan.pfeiffer.net/10m/10M212_20210925_174541.jpg


Dan Pfeiffer

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[Tim Smith]

Related question for winches on cabin tops, is there a great thread here on winch base fabrication to level winches on cabin top. Welcome notes and pictures. I think I will be milling something. 

Best, Tim 

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[Al Taylor]

I didn’t mention I have a pair of 40 ST aft of the primary (Genoa) 46s on the coaming top for the spinnaker sheets (and furling line when I’m feeling lazy).

I got the 40s at a steal from Anchors and Oars, a used chandlery, and deals come up on FBM. Adding them was a game changer for soloing.  

I still have 4 smaller winches on the coachtop one is a 16 ST I use mostly for the spin halyard. I haven’t yet lead any main lines back to the cockpit. Just thinking about it right now.

You definitely need the Genny’s and spinnaker controls at the same time, the genny blankets the spinnaker when hoisting the spinnaker. Yes, there are other ways to launch the spinnaker withouut the genny but this is a standard solo technique. 

On Nov 26, 2024, at 11:53 PM, Peter McGowan <mcgowa...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Peter Trunfio]

Darin,

I was fairly new to sailing when I bought the boat in 2007…and it was my first boat.

It didn’t come with a spinnaker, or a spinnaker pole.

Even if it did, I didn’t know how to fly a [symmetrical] spinnaker, nor did I have any crew that knew how to fly a spinnaker.

I didn’t even start racing the boat until AFTER I’d upgraded the primary (genoa) winches to self-tailing.

When I did start to get into racing the boat, it was just non-spin (jib & main only). I started by adding some inboard jib-cars (the boat had in-board tracks, but no cars).

I also bought an extendable whisker pole…and eventually a 2-blade Flex-O-Fold prop.

We did really well racing non-spin, in part to all the upgrades, and in part to the learning curve. But I still didn’t really know how to fly a spinnaker.

Years later, I now race spinnaker on Wednesday nights…on someone else’s boat. It’s a lot less stress, and a lot more cost-effective. 😉

PMT

Peter M. Trunfio

+1.917.640.6450 (c)

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[darin doherty]

Thanks everyone for the info.

Such a personal thing -  all the opinions on rigging.

I don't have a spinnaker, I have a reacher that came with the boat I have not used yet.  I guess for now, I have the halyard, sock lift, (secondary halyard) and snuffing line on the boat.  I will probably try to fly using the primary genoa winches with some blocks added aft of the winches.  I do have a beater spinnaker pole that came with the boat, adjustable by loosening the hose clamp.

I plan on playing with it this weekend for the first time, so we will see what happens.

Cheers all. and have a great thanksgiving.

Darin

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[Guy Johnson]

DAN;

As I recall when I was looking for secondary winches for puffin the Lewmar 40s have the same drum size as the Lewmar 30s of course with a different ratio for mechanical advantage.

Guy

On Nov 27, 2024, at 12:11 AM, Dan Pfeiffer <d...@pfeiffer.net> wrote:



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[Stephen Craft]

Hi Darin,

I have a symmetrical spinnaker and pole that I do not use.  Let me know if you are interested.

The spinnaker is numbered and may not match if your sails are numbered

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