Pearson 30 - play or slop in tiller

[Bruce Scott]

Hi,

I’m a novice sailor with only a little fundamental knowledge on sailing, so please forgive me if I use improper terms or names.

I recently purchased a Pearson 30 and I’ve found there’s some troubling play or slop in the tiller/rudder, which has made it tiring to keep her on a straight course in some conditions. I’ve done a good deal of research on my own to try to find the cause and solution but I think I’ve gone as far as I can without asking for advice–which leads me here.

What I’ve determined so far is that the play isn’t derived from the rudder bushings (so I don’t believe I need to haul her out and drop the rudder) and I believe it’s from the tiller or rudder head and bracket assembly. When I’ve taken a good look while she’s in her slip I find that I can move the tiller handle slightly left and right without the rudder post moving at all, which is why I think the issue is in the tiller/rudder head and that I need to replace, or reinforce somehow, the assembly. But I don’t know enough about this to even begin the process without asking some questions first and I’d appreciate any advice or direction I can get!

First, it looks to me like the tiller head (or is it the rudder head?) was put on backwards...shouldn’t the bracket connect on the stern side, to give it more leverage over the assembly? 

1. Is this the bolt that stops the rudder from dropping out of the shaft?

2. This is where I believe the play/slop is happening–does the wear here look normal? Would you speculate that I need a whole new assembly or could this be fixed relatively easily? If I need to replace it are these parts mostly specific to certain boats or are they generally universal?

3. Is this the bolt to loosen to just remove the tiller from the rudder?

Thanks for any wisdom you can offer!

Bruce

[Bob Maxwell]

Yes, if the rudder is pointed forward, the rudder head is on backward.  But be sure the rudder hasn't rotated around backward.  There's nothing to prevent it from doing that.  If it has, it's simple to rotate it back to forward and then the tiller bracket will properly grip the rudder head.  Depending on where your traveler is located, you may have to remove the tiller to rotate the rudder back around.  I think this is most likely what happened.  If someone assembled it this way with the rudder forward, they goofed biggly.

If the rudder is already facing forward, then the rudder head needs to be removed and rotated around.  As you said, the bolt should be aft and the side plates of the tiller bracket should fit snugly around the rudder head.   You'll need to do something to keep the rudder from falling out when you remove the rudder hear.  If the boat's on land, just put a jack or lumber or something under the rudder. If the boat's in the water, you'll have to rig some sort of sling.

Yes, #1 is the bolt that keeps the rudder from falling out, but the rudder head should also fit snugly to the rudder post.  The clamping bolt #2 should clamp the rudder head tightly to the rudder post.  If it doesn't, the rudder head is worn inside and should be replaced.  Tightening bolt #1 won't prevent a little slop. If the movement is between head and post, #2 should stop it.

D&R Marine sells a replacement rudder head for the P30.  I bought one many years ago and it needed a little machining to finish and get the fit right.  I don't know if that's still true or the current one is fully finished.  Rudy at D&R can tell you.  The price is a little dear, but it's a boat.

http://www.drmarine.com/proddetail.asp?prod=P30%2D113

I had some steering slop due to wear on the holes in the tiller bracket at the large bolt on the left of your picture.  I was able to drill out the ovaled holes on the bracket and press in some bronze bushings to get things snug.

If any of this doesn't make sense, don't hesitate to ask.  We all started somewhere.

Bob

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[George DuBose]

Couldn't one not just remove the rudder cap entirely and bolt the
tiller bracket directly to the top of the rudder post?

That's how it was on my P26.

Or bore out and round the oval holes in the rudder cap and sleeve the
cap with two short pieces of stainless steel tubing and one longer
piece through the top of the rudder post. The tubing could corrode
itself nicely to the aluminum and serve as a bearing surface for the
through bolt.

I see that the D&R rudder cap is now made in bronze which should
tolerate the stainless steel through bolt that holds the cap to the
rudder post.

George

>> First, it looks to me like the tiller head (or is it the rudder
>> head?) was put on backwards...shouldn’t the bracket connect on the
>> stern side, to give it more leverage over the assembly?

>> 1. Is this the bolt that stops the rudder from dropping out of the shaft?
>>
>> 2. This is where I believe the play/slop is happening–does the

>> wear here look normal? Would you speculate that I need a whole new
>> assembly or could this be fixed relatively easily? If I need to
>> replace it are these parts mostly specific to certain boats or are
>> they generally universal?
>>

>> 3. Is this the bolt to loosen to just remove the tiller from the rudder?

>>
>> Thanks for any wisdom you can offer!
>> Bruce
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>> Groups "pearson-boats" group.
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>>
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pearson-boats/ac34b887-a81e-4c6d-a557-3b76ab4ca30en%40googlegroups.com.
>
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[Jeff Griglack]

Bruce,

Okay, first thing first, just to make sure things are right, bolt #3 in your picture should be oriented forward, toward the front of the boat.  The tiller should lay down over top of the rudder head with the large, hinge bolt in the back.  If it's not like that, the rudder will be reversed and it will be difficult to steer or track well.

Assuming everything is oriented correctly, I found most of the slop on my P30 was in the tiller hinge itself.  That was easy to deal with by adding washers between the tiller bracket and the rudder head.

I replaced the rudder head with the one from D&R (http://www.drmarine.com/proddetail.asp?prod=P30%2D113) as well, about 15 years ago.  It was about $350 then, and it's listed at $390 now, so it hasn't really gone up that much.  It's cast bronze and much more rugged than the original, which was cast aluminum and cracked when somebody cranked down on the clamp bolt.  I also had to make it a little larger using a dremel, a sanding drum, and patience.

About 4 or 5 years ago, I noticed more slop in the rudder, and that was due to the rudder bushings.  They are also available from D&R and aren't hard to replace, but you need to drop the rudder to do that.  The way you check for this is by standing under the boat, lifting the rudder slightly, and trying to move it side to side (similar to how you check for a worn cutless bearing).

Hope this helps,

Jeff

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| Jeff Griglack             "Jabberwocky" P-365 #269

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On Fri, Apr 9, 2021 at 3:13 PM Bruce Scott <bruc...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Bruce Scott]

Thank you, Bob / Thank you, George / Thank you, Jeff.

I really appreciate your time and all of your replies are super helpful and I feel like I can now take some coherent steps forward to fixing this. 

First step, looking to see if I somehow managed to accidentally get the rudder pointing backwards! Which is a distinct possibility when I think back on an instance a couple weeks ago where the tiller handle flung me across the cockpit...

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[Robert Franklin]

Bruce,

I only want to chime in to say you've made a wonderful choice to own a Pearson 30. I've owned two and wish I still had both.

I believe Jeff is giving you a perfect explanation of how to set up the tiller correctly.  You will be astonished how well it works and tracks once you've done that.

What a sweet boat!

Bob Franklin

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[David Walker]

I believe the P30 tiller/redder is very similar to the P26.  On the P26 the rudder is designed to rotate a full 360 degrees.  When the rudder is in the correct orientation for sailing, y you should be able to see the tip in the water behind the stern.  When backing down under you rotate the tiller 180 degrees either way so the rudder tip faces forward.  If you try to go ahead with the tiller in reverse orientation it can and will throw you across the cockpit.  Likewise if you back down with the rudder in the ahead orientation it will likewise through you across the cockpit.  I think your picture shows the rudder in reverse position.

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[Bruce Scott]

Update: You guys were right. The rudder was rotated 180 degrees, explaining why it was so hard to keep it under control the last time I took her out.

The weekend before, as I was motoring down the channel, the tiller threw me across the cockpit–I assume I picked up a big piece of seaweed–and before I could gain control of it again it must've spun around 180 degrees. I didn't have enough experience to notice that the tiller handle was now upside down and the control was acting different. But, thanks to you guys the big problem is corrected. 

I still think I caused some extra play by stressing out the bolt connecting the bracket to the head because I sailed it for a couple hours in reverse position, so I'll be looking to fix that now.

Thanks again!

Bruce

[Robert Franklin]

Great learning experience???  But you're not the first. 

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