Diesel Heater

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Scott Pinder

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Oct 7, 2024, 7:43:36 AMOct 7
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IMG_1520.jpegHi Guys

After sailing my P10M VeeGee #141 across the pond to the UK, I’m looking to fit a diesel heater to her and wondered if any of you have already fitted one to yours?

Just looking for ideas for location for heater, tank and pipe routing.

Thanks in advance

Scott


Dan Pfeiffer

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Oct 7, 2024, 11:05:01 AMOct 7
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Scott,

What's this bracket on the inboard side of your stem fitting all about?  I have not seen this before.  Perhaps just reinforcing for the tack fitting at the stem?

Dan Pfeiffer
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Scott Pinder

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Oct 7, 2024, 11:39:46 AMOct 7
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Looking at it probably additional strength for forestay. Not with her at moment but can check at the weekend.


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Guy Johnson

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Oct 7, 2024, 1:54:54 PMOct 7
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Scott;
I don't have diesel heat on Puffin, so this isn't really an answer to your question. 
I do have a Force 10 bulkhead mounted CNG heater mounted on the bulkhead to the Port side of the fold down table. 
It works well for fall days in New England, but wouldn't be enough for winter heat. 
I have thought about mounting a heater in the bottom of the hanging locker and running a loop off the engine. Also thought about running some some hydronic heating PEX under the cabin sole to add some heat to the cabin. 
The reality for me is that I don't use the heat all that much and probably won't add more heat unless I plan a longer trip up North. 

Guy
Puffin 10M #6


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Subject: [pearson ] Diesel Heater
 
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George DuBose

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Oct 8, 2024, 2:41:56 AMOct 8
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Hi Scott,


Nice to hear that another Pearson has crossed the Atlantic to Europe. Skylark has been in the EU since 2009 and Uma of Sailing Uma has been here almost as long. I have heard of two other Pearsons over here, One in France and one it Turkey.


After 17 years, I left northern Europe for the Med where a heater isn't necessary.


Good luck to your travels,


George DuBose/Skylark P36-1

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pearson-boats/LV3P220MB1540F05C8C4940495CF1BDB0BC7D2%40LV3P220MB1540.NAMP220.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM.

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Scott Pinder

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Oct 8, 2024, 3:29:45 AMOct 8
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Hi George

Was convinced yours was a 10M and did wonder how many Pearsons had made it over this side of the pond. 

She's now located half way up the North Sea in Yorkshire, so climate now warrants a heater if you want to spend a few nights aboard. 

Plan is to give her some upgrades, new solar and batteries, windvane, refrigerate the coolbox and a water maker. Still not sure what to do with shore power though.

Then bring her into the med either next year or the following, knock on Uma's door (if she's still about) and possibly yours now 😁 then hopefully join the ARC crossing November time. Then who knows....

Scott 
Veegee 10M #141





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Al Taylor

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Oct 8, 2024, 11:45:47 AMOct 8
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The hanging locker may be a good option. I installed a reversible heat pump there and ducted it to the v-berth and saloon. I know not apples to apples. I can't run this on house power/inverter and it's not diesel.
As far as using this location to mount a diesel heater, I'm worried about ventilation, but any diesel heater is going to burn fuel inside the boat.
Running a fuel line loop up and back wouldn't be particularly difficult. That's basically what the water lines to starboard do.
Al
Moment of Truth
10M #174

Dave Cole

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Oct 8, 2024, 1:12:44 PMOct 8
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I have a Chinese diesel heater and I tested it.  Its quite impressive.  I think its a Webasto copy.   The controls, diagnostics and thermostat seems to work well.
Does Webasto or others make marine fittings to get the combustion air in and out of a boat?
If you have a diesel powered boat it might make sense to tap your fuel tank, rather than add another tank.
The unit I have came with a plastic fuel tank, and fuel pump.  I intend to install it in a cargo trailer.

Id like to hear about your voyage with your 10M to York.    When did you do that?  Was it via Newfoundland?


Dave. 10M #26

Dan Pfeiffer

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Oct 8, 2024, 1:13:41 PMOct 8
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And there's probably some excess heat from the reversible heat pump that helps dry out the hanging locker? 

I would think the diesel heater should be in a locker aft with ducting to and from to the cabin.  I saw an installation like that on Aluring Arctic YouTube with some discussion.  But that was two boats ago for that guy.  On the 10M it might be possible to run a duct all the way forward up on that void space behind the outboard edge of the headliner.  Maybe enclose that to make it a duct?  I have thought about that for basic ventilation air.   On the 10M it might be a challenge to get warm air to the v-berth with the heater aft but worth considering.   Whatever heater you use I think you don't want it to add moisture to the cabin?

I would also look into some insulation.  The deck is cored but that solid hull is a problem for heat transfer.  Even 1/2" would make a big difference.  I added an inch in the v-berth.  That helped a lot but I sort of stalled on the finishing part of the project...
http://dan.pfeiffer.net/10m/v-berth_trim.htm

I have some ventilation projects in mind to work on this winter.  Somewhat related...

Dan Pfeiffer




Guy Johnson

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Oct 8, 2024, 1:23:21 PMOct 8
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As I refinish the interior of Puffin I've been adding 1/2" closed cell polyethylene insulation. Contact cemented to the hull with vinyl contact cemented to the foam. In the cabin I reused the original Pearson vinyl, in the V berth I used Naugahyde. The Naugahyde turned out better than expected. 
Guy


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Subject: Re: [pearson ] Diesel Heater
 
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Dave Cole

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Oct 8, 2024, 10:04:26 PMOct 8
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Scott Pinder

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Oct 9, 2024, 10:22:59 AMOct 9
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Hi Dave

Purchased a Chinese copy too, advice here was to use some of the wabasto fittings as more robust than the copy. 

As for the voyage, 

Sailed out of Sheepshead Bay, NYC 31st July hoping to be in Oban, Scotland 3-4 weeks later, with the intension of going through the Caledonian Canal and then sail south to the Humber.

Set off roughly around the same time as hurricane Deb was forming so knew I may have to adjust course later. 

Placed my waypoint on the southeastern tip of the Grand Banks and headed up Long Island, only to be advised to avoid the outside of Martha's Vinyard due to debris in the water, so headed into the sound and spent a night on anchor.

Had to engine out of the sound as no wind but that was the last time prop was spun up till next anchored up.

Headed up towards Nova Scotia and Newfoundland above my 1st waypoint with reports that Deb was chasing, but she was now heading north too, so changed heading to southeasterly below waypoint, 70 miles below, just where Titanic rests. 

Deb was now above me and choice was still head for Scotland with strong winds and seas or continue on a more Southeastern course straight into the Azores. 

Azores it is then, arrived at Flores 17th August and pottered around 6 of the 9 inhabited islands till the 29th when weather window opened for the sail up to the UK.

2 days out of the Azores a minor leak on the propshaft became one that the bilge pump flattened the batteries overnight. To the point couldn't start engine until they were recharged by solar, 6 hrs behind the wheel and then manually pumping the bilge every hour and half, day and night so as not to repeat flat batteries for the next 11 days.

Arrived on Lizard Point and ancored overnight 8th Sept clearing into Falmouth the next day. 

Leak fixed, sailed onto Southampton 12th arriving 13th just in time for the boat show. 

Stayed for the full show as a friend had given me full access to the show and another had given me his berth in the marina next door until end of Sept if wanted.

Next window opened up 23rd Sept so took it, was looking to day sail coast but wind was with me all the way up the English Channel and up the East coast, right up until about 25 miles to the Humber when it died. Engine on and anchored up 5 hrs later on the 25th just inside the mouth of the Humber as Hull Marina is tidal and had missed that days slot. 

Made home port the next day 26th expecting to get soaked and using engine all way, but rain held off and even managed to unfurl the genoa a couple of times on the 25 miles up the Humber.




noname

pau...@perhapscoaching.com

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Oct 11, 2024, 10:23:51 AMOct 11
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Congrats on your passage!!!! 

 

We are moored just across the water from Sheep’s head next to buoy 16.

 

Will you come back or are you staying in Old Blighty?

 

Pauleen

 

Pauleen Ward Brown

31.2 P hull #20

Sailing out of Breezy Point NY

 

 

 

From: pearso...@googlegroups.com <pearso...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Scott Pinder
Sent: Wednesday, October 9, 2024 10:23 AM
To: pearso...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [pearson ] Diesel Heater

 

Hi Dave

Hi Guys

image001.jpg

Scott Pinder

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Oct 11, 2024, 10:38:12 AMOct 11
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Hi Pauleen

There's another 10M parked in Sheepshead Bay, belongs to a good friend of mine. She was 4 numbers away in production, probably the 1st time these two had seen each other in 44 years.

Was not sure about getting as far north when I got over that way again, but do miss the area and may just have to find away out of the Caribbean and up the coast maybe year after next 😉

Scott 
Veegee 10M #141


image001.jpg

pau...@perhapscoaching.com

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Oct 11, 2024, 10:44:08 AMOct 11
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Enjoy your time there!!! 

 

Do introduce me to your friend!

 

Pauleen

Guy Johnson

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Oct 11, 2024, 12:21:49 PMOct 11
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Please introduce your Pearson friends to our Pearson-boats group.
Guy
Puffin 10M #6
Beverly MA 

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Sent: Friday, October 11, 2024 10:44 AM
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Subject: RE: [pearson ] Diesel Heater
 

Scott Pinder

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Oct 11, 2024, 2:21:51 PMOct 11
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Hi Guy

Do we know how many 10M's are still around?

Scott
Veegee 10M #141


Guy Johnson

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Oct 11, 2024, 4:45:50 PMOct 11
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Dan probably has the best idea, he used to have a registry on his web site, maybe he still does. 
There are 3 in my club :>)
Guy

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Tim McDonough

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Oct 11, 2024, 6:14:08 PMOct 11
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Hi Pauleen, 

This is Tim, Scott's friend in Sheepshead Bay - he told me to take a look at this thread :) I've been in this group a while, but not super active as I haven't had too many major projects lately, for better or worse. Are you a member of RPYC? I'm over at SBYC. 

What's the name of your boat? We've probably seen each other out and about. Here's Raggamuffin, 10M #137.  

(Sorry to get off topic!) 

Michael Cyr

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Oct 12, 2024, 7:29:53 AMOct 12
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I just finished installing a Vevor "2kw" knockoff chinese diesel heater in my Pearson 33. The new Vevor,  with the NEW bluetooth controller, is really nice because it will actually shut the heater off and back on via its thermostat rather than just running at its lowest level forever, like most others. 

The P33 is obviously laid out different than the 10M but I did learn some lessons. Put the heater as far aft as possible to minimize the exhaust run. However, the cable to the controller, which you want in the cabin, is just so long. Probably extendable though.

The exhaust on these wants to go DOWN because of the large amount of water in the exhaust.  If you can't mount it high enough for a downward exhaust run then you can get a fitting to let the water out at the exhaust's lowest point without letting exhaust out. I made one from a copper TEE fitting and tubing. Mine's exhaust runs down to the low point and then up as high as possible and then down again to the stern outlet, to allow any following sea  water to run back out the through hull.

If you decide to cut a piece of the factory stainless exhaust, know that you will then have to expand the corrugated cut ends to get them to fit over any standard heater fittings. I did that by inserting an appropriate sized deep well socket inside the corrugated end of the pipe and hammering out the corrugations. Be careful not to split the pipe.

I used standard galvanized #3 or #4 metal electrical conduit standoffs from Home Depot to hold the fiberglass tape wrapped exhaust pipe away from the hull. I glassed the standoffs to the hull using long-strand bondo hair. This might be overkill. 

You can get a double walled stainless exhaust through hull flange on Amazon. It feels nicely made.

You'll want some sort of heat wrap on the exhaust.  I double clamped all the exhaust connections. I just saw on youtube someone using muffler cement on the connections too. I think that's not a bad idea. although I would not use it on the connection to the heater itself.

These heaters require periodic cleaning so make sure you can get to it to remove it fairly easily.

Mine came with a very narrow and tall 12 liter tank. The cap is vented of course so I like that it's tall because I was able to mount it under the lazarette, on the centerline of the boat, thereby reducing the possibility of fuel leaking from the vented cap when we're on a heel.

The fuel pump work in such a way that it creates air bubbles (cavitation maybe?) when running so you don't want any loops, and you want to run vertically, from the pump to the heater. Otherwise the bubbles will collect in the high point of the line and interrupt fuel flow. If the line is vertical from pump to unit, the bubbles are small enough to flow through without causing any difficulty.  The pump itself is supposed to be mounted at an upward angle but mine is just vertical.

Make sure you have room to run the heated air hose from the heater to the cabin. Install it as close to the floor as possible. I chose to not install a return air hose because I want the cabin air drawn through the engine room on its way back to the heater in order to help keep the engine warm. My 3gm30F, without glow plugs, is hard to start on 40F mornings.

I decided to draw the combustion air from the engine compartment too, rather than through another through hull. My boat is too air leaky for it to create any significant negative air pressure that could suck exhaust back into the boat.

I am still using the heater's factory vinyl fuel line but I plan to replace it with the upgraded  nylon and rubber kit. I am planning on installing a shutoff on the tank outlet o ease maintenance.

I installed a second CO detector in the boat.  I have seen that a properly tuned forced air diesel heater doesn't actually produce a ton of CO but I really don't want to worry about a CO detector failing.

The heater is really quite amazing. I think the unit cost me about $100 from vevor.com and I spent about $125 more on "stuff" for the install.. maybe a bit less.

There are a TON of youtubes about these things.

Mike in Maine

pau...@perhapscoaching.com

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Oct 12, 2024, 3:01:32 PMOct 12
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Hi Tim

 

Shall we take this conversation off-line? – my email is pau...@perhapscoaching.com

 

Look forward to connecting with you

 

Pauleen

On Tue, 8 Oct 2024, 18:12 Dave Cole, <dave...@gmail.com> wrote:

Guy Johnson

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Oct 13, 2024, 6:19:12 PMOct 13
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There are quite a few 10m’s and other Pearson’s in Maine and New England, no need to take the conversation offline. 
Thanks for considering the group. 
Guy
Puffin 10m #6

On Oct 12, 2024, at 3:01 PM, pauleen via pearson-boats <pearso...@googlegroups.com> wrote:



George DuBose

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Oct 19, 2024, 5:53:41 AM (14 days ago) Oct 19
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Hi Scott,


Nice to hear that another Pearson has crossed the Atlantic to Europe. Skylark has been in the EU since 2009 and Uma of Sailing Uma has been here almost as long. I have heard of two other Pearsons over here, One in France and one it Turkey.


After 17 years, I left northern Europe for the Med where a heater isn't necessary.


Good luck to your travels,


George DuBose/Skylark P36-1



On 10/7/24 7:54 PM, Guy Johnson wrote:
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