Re: Comcast: Channel 4 Snowy?
Jim McLaughlin
double image on 8 and 10.
All three forms of interference are worse at night and makes 4, 8 and 10
unviewable after about 8:00 P.M.
I live in SW Portland, near PCC Sylvania, in a neighborhood called West
Portland park, also known as the cheap side of Mountain Park.
Where are you located?
If anyone else here is having similar problems, yell out, and let us know
where you are located.
Thanks!
--
Jim McLaughlin
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"Mike C." <mikecor...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Wjttd.459642$wV.100971@attbi_s54...
> Hi, Is it only me or are others having trouble with a snowy picture on
> channel 4?
>
> I have ext. basic cable service. I think it's been snowy for the last
month.
> I can't watch anything on channel 4. I've thought about calling Comcast,
but
> don't really want to put up with their poor customer service. I don't
watch
> Channel 4 enough to be bothered, but I'm asking here since it is a
nuisance,
> would be nice to have the option of watching Channel 4, especially to
watch
> MFL. I have checked all my connectors, removed the splitters and none of
> this made a difference.
>
> Thanks,
> Mike
>
>
Kevin
news:Drttd.530134$D%.405967@attbi_s51:
> No, its not just you. I am having the same problem. Also, a
> "ghost" or double image on 8 and 10.
>
> All three forms of interference are worse at night and makes 4, 8 and
> 10 unviewable after about 8:00 P.M.
>
> I live in SW Portland, near PCC Sylvania, in a neighborhood called
> West Portland park, also known as the cheap side of Mountain Park.
>
> Where are you located?
>
> If anyone else here is having similar problems, yell out, and let us
> know where you are located.
>
> Thanks!
>
Same problem with chanell 4 in Beaverton.
Phil Kane
>> No, its not just you. I am having the same problem. Also, a
>> "ghost" or double image on 8 and 10.
>>
>> All three forms of interference are worse at night and makes 4, 8 and
>> 10 unviewable after about 8:00 P.M.
>>
>> I live in SW Portland, near PCC Sylvania, in a neighborhood called
>> West Portland park, also known as the cheap side of Mountain Park.
>>
>> Where are you located?
>>
>> If anyone else here is having similar problems, yell out, and let us
>> know where you are located.
>Same problem with chanell 4 in Beaverton.
The Channel 4 problem is because Comcast puts KATU (Ch. 2 analog
on-air) on Chan. 4 on the cable. Several weeks ago, KPXG (Ch. 22
analog on-air, Chan. 5 on cable) fired up their digital transmitter
on Chan. 4 as licensed.
The stations are well aware of the problem which is not of their
making or of their "cure". It is due to "direct pickup" - from
insufficient shielding in the cable system and/or much more probably
by direct pickup of the Chan. 4 on-air signal by the unshieled TV
sets' "innards" (plastic cases, you will remember).
Fuzziness and/or beat/herringbone patterns are the known symptions
of this problem.
The ghosting on Chan. 8 and 10 is also due to "direct pickup" from
their transmitters on Skyline.
--
Phil Kane
Vice Chair - Chapter 124
Society of Broadcast Engineers
Portland, OR
Jim McLaughlin
Interesting.
So, If I understand correctly, over air channel 22 (KPXG) broadcasts
over the air on 22 with an analog signal, is on 5 on cable, and has begun a
digital broadcast on 5 over the air with a digital signal.
Do you know where the KPXG digital signal over the air is broadcast from -
i.e. where is the tower / transmitter?
My in house cable runs are all quad shielded RG 6, so think I have some
protection there. Not much, but some.
I gather the real problem, as you see it, is the sets themselves and
the loooooong cable runs that Comcast has on the streets.
Certainly, there is a big difference in the cable 4 interference here
depending upon which TV I'm looking at. The big 35 Sony in the family room
is the clearest. The little Sharp 13 inch tv vcr combo in the kitchen is
the worst. Various Sylvanias and GEs are intermediate in the amount of
interference.
My thought then is to really start a campaign with the FCC regarding
the KPXG digital signal on over the air 5.
--
Jim McLaughlin
Please don't just hit the reply key.
Remove the obvious from the address to reply.
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"Phil Kane" <Phil...@nov.shmovz.ka.pop> wrote in message
news:xnfcneeyarg.i...@netnews.comcast.net...
Stan
} Kevin -
}
} Interesting.
}
} So, If I understand correctly, over air channel 22 (KPXG) broadcasts
}over the air on 22 with an analog signal, is on 5 on cable, and has begun a
}digital broadcast on 5 over the air with a digital signal.
I believe he posted "channel 4 digital", which really would clobber
the piss out of any cable ch 4 that it ingressed upon.
}...My in house cable runs are all quad shielded RG 6, so think I have some
}protection there. Not much, but some.
Have Comcast test right at the drop.
} I gather the real problem, as you see it, is the sets themselves and
}the loooooong cable runs that Comcast has on the streets.
It can be in 3 places: the cable sytem itself (which includes the drop),
your house wiring (quad shielded RG 6 should be fine, but beware bad/loose
crimps at the connector which can cause ingress) or the TV, where sometimes
they use crappy shielding between the rf connector on the set and the tuner.
An unshielded tuner can pick up ingress, too.
}My thought then is to really start a campaign with the FCC regarding
}the KPXG digital signal on over the air (4).
Well, it wasn't very nice of the FCC to allow digital channels on the VHF
channels, since it's just about a gaurantee of interference to cable
subscribers. That's the way it's heading.
Stan.
jbohren
"Jim McLaughlin" <jim.mclaughl...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:j7vtd.727984$8_6.274108@attbi_s04...
> Kevin -
>
> Interesting.
>
> So, If I understand correctly, over air channel 22 (KPXG) broadcasts
> over the air on 22 with an analog signal, is on 5 on cable, and has begun
> a
> digital broadcast on 5 over the air with a digital signal.
>
> Do you know where the KPXG digital signal over the air is broadcast from -
> i.e. where is the tower / transmitter?
>
> My in house cable runs are all quad shielded RG 6, so think I have some
> protection there. Not much, but some.
Its not the house run but outside coax that leaks. Coax breaks down over
time and shows up as 1 or 2 stations bad. Comcast should have people with
the equipment to take level measurements and run a new cable.
BTW RG-59 coax has a bunch of problems handling digital signals or cable
modem. Problems like the inner insulator melting. So make sure that all
your patch cables from the outlet to the device are RG-6.
>
> I gather the real problem, as you see it, is the sets themselves and
> the loooooong cable runs that Comcast has on the streets.
>
> Certainly, there is a big difference in the cable 4 interference here
> depending upon which TV I'm looking at. The big 35 Sony in the family
> room
> is the clearest. The little Sharp 13 inch tv vcr combo in the kitchen is
> the worst. Various Sylvanias and GEs are intermediate in the amount of
> interference.
Most problems with multiple TVs is ghosting, and that problem is still bad
coax or a splitter thats not properly terminated. All unused splitter
outputs should have a 75 ohm termination.
Jim McLaughlin
--
Jim McLaughlin
Please don't just hit the reply key.
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"Stan" <stan...@delete-this-crap-xprt.net> wrote in message
news:stanleyh-081...@pdx-ppp144.pop1.net...
>
> I believe he posted "channel 4 digital", which really would clobber
> the piss out of any cable ch 4 that it ingressed upon.
>
Yes, in rereading Phil's original post, I see that now. KPXG 22 is
running its digital signal over the air on 4, which is what at least two of
us are picking up as interfereance on cable 4, killing the KATU signal.
Phil Kane
>Well, it wasn't very nice of the FCC to allow digital channels on the VHF
>channels, since it's just about a gaurantee of interference to cable
>subscribers. That's the way it's heading.
The problem would be the same if a full-power Chan. 4 analog station
was on the air in Portland, which could very well have happened.
There are quite a few VHF digital TV assignments nationwide which
are in operation with no problems of cable system ingress.
The FCC went to great lengths to assign "second" channels for
digital signals which would give the stations equivalent coverage
and interference contour protection from other stations on the air.
It was a major engineering project and switching a station from one
"new" channel assignment to another is almost impossible. I have a
client in California who is supporting such a switch to prevent
harmful interference to their public safety channel operating 250
miles away and although every one agrees, it's taken a long time for
the FCC to even consider it even though the statsion involved
commissioned and paid for the engineering study to prove that it was
feasible.
At the "digital-only" date (was 2006, now 2009) every station will
be obligated to turn back either their "analog" channel or their
"digital" channel and only operate digitally on the one which they
keep, but few if any will go back to their "analog" channel because
of the investment which they have had to make in transmitters and
antennas for the "new" channels. Most of the analog transmitters
are getting to the end of their lives because of impending
obsolescense, and therefore have no salvage value.
The Commission is under no obligation to assign spectrum based on
the inadequacy of cable system shielding. It's the cable systems
who have the obligation to keep on-air signals out of their system.
It's time to get Comcast off the dime. It can be done.
My experience in this field is 30 years on the FCC field
enforcement/engineering staff, a good part of that time directing
the measurements and compliance program for broadcast stations,
and I've seen lots of cases like this.
BTW - the Chan. 4 snow problem is worse today than it was for the
last two weeks, and that's on all 5 of the TV/VCR sets that we have
here. I'm sure that it's a system-wide problem coming down the
pipe. Our system here is new fibre, about 2 years old.
There's a Society of Broadcast Engineers meeting next week - I'm
sure that the topic will come up.
--
Phil Kane
SBE Chap. 124
Phil Kane
Mike C.
It sounds like my choice is to complain to Comcast. Comcast needs to
broadcast KATU on a different channel or switch to a dish.
I guess I could also inform KATU, ABC and all the popular TV shows on ABC
that I will not be watching their programs because Comcast is broadcasting
ABC on channel 4.
Mike
"Phil Kane" <Phil...@nov.shmovz.ka.pop> wrote in message
news:xnfcneeyarg.i...@netnews.comcast.net...
Jim McLaughlin
--
Jim McLaughlin
Please don't just hit the reply key.
Remove the obvious from the address to reply.
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"Phil Kane" <Phil...@nov.shmovz.ka.pop> wrote in message
news:xnfcneeyarg.i...@netnews.comcast.net...
Phil Kane
>Thank you for a very informative set of posts.
At the risk of losing the non-broadcast non-techies here, below is
an excerpt from the latest "Water Cooled", the newsletter of the
Portland chapter of the Soiciety of Broadcast Engineers:
TV BAND REPACKING
Speaking of TV Channel Band repacking == The time has come for all of
us full service TV stations to declare our intentions for operation
in the post DTV transition era… Some interesting twists have
surfaced… Most of the information on the E-mail around town is
pretty clear. (As I understand this….) KATU will not go back to 2,
and remain on 43. KOIN assumes that channel 6 will go away, and
prefers to stay on channel 40. KGW, and KOPB, will return to their
VHF channels 8, & 10 respectively. KWBP will probably stay where
they are… BUT, KPTV, & KPDX are planning something neat. KPTV to go
back to 12, then KPDX will change to DTV on 30, the former KPTV-DT
channel… KPDX would then surrender both 48 & 49, in effect
consolidating all of their duopoly stations on the single owned
tower on Miller Road… KPXG is now on the air with their low band
VHF on channel 4, which seems to work very, very, well almost
everywhere. Even in most areas that may even have only a UHF
antenna… They are expected to stay on channel 4, enjoy the cost
savings of a low band signal, and remain in the center of town on
the Skyline Tower [the big one north of Burnside].
A new problem has been created for Channel 2, which is on Comcast
channel 4: Direct pickup on the Cable is killing them! The main
reason they moved from 2 to 4 on the Cable years ago! But wait,
Cable is a "closed system," right? Yea, right. Of course, all of
this DTV channel election process is subject to change up until the
papers are filed with the FCC!
--
Phil Kane
gatt
We just punted Comcast and got the Dish Network with the 100-hr digital
video recorder included. I don't want to sound like a Dish groupie or
salesdroid, but we ain't going back.
The best feature of all is the ability to replay what you just saw if you
want, and then catch up to the broadcast at the next commercial. The only
drawback I've seen is that when the schedule says "8 p.m. Eastern" time,
they mean it. If you try to watch, say, The Daily Show at 11 p.m. you're
going to miss it.
Picture quality is better, so far, and there are more channels for basic. I
think the only two we don't get besides the MexiGod channels are Animal
Planet and Fox News, but that's with the cheapest package.
-c
"Jim McLaughlin" <jim.mclaughl...@comcast.net> wrote in message
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