why such meanies???
movealonghippie
practice pretending other people are invisible. I had some guy walk
right into me and almost pushed me down on the sidewalk the other day,
while he was looking right past me, then ,guess what, no acknowledgment
of his action! I mean what the hell, is it the weather? Yeah it sucks,
but....
I thought it was just me, so I kept my mouth shut , but when the
asswipe walked into me, I asked around and everyone I spoke with agreed
with me ,EXCEPT native PDXers.They just replied with a "uhhh,idunno"
then shuffle off:)
I just moved back here after several years absent( froma southern
state, where we know how to respect one another and be polite)and I dont
remember it being this way. I mean Im not the most outgoing or
attractive or succesful person out there, but Christ, Ive never had a
hard time meeting and making new friends, except here. Are y'all just so
secure in your own worlds that you cant let anyone else in? I mean this
w/ all due respect and not in the spirit of mean-ness( anticipating the
flames Ill get from this), but I dont wanna end up like some of these
dour, bitter, scowling folks I see out there, and it'd be real pleasant
like to have a friend or two. So, where does a stranger go to meet folks
who wont rip 'em a new one just cuz theyre new around here?
Sorry bout that long wind!:)
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
John Judy
> I thought it was just me, so I kept my mouth shut , but when the
> asswipe walked into me, I asked around and everyone I spoke with agreed
> with me ,EXCEPT native PDXers.They just replied with a "uhhh,idunno"
> then shuffle off:)
This doesn't even make sense. Asked around about what? Did the guy walk into
you again? Did you just go up to strangers and ask them why someone walked
into you?
> I just moved back here after several years absent( froma southern
> state, where we know how to respect one another and be polite)
Well, don't let the door hit you on the ass on the way out
> and I dont remember it being this way. I mean Im not the most outgoing or
> attractive or succesful person out there, but Christ, Ive never had a
> hard time meeting and making new friends, except here. Are y'all just so
> secure in your own worlds that you cant let anyone else in?
>I mean this
> w/ all due respect and not in the spirit of mean-ness( anticipating the
> flames Ill get from this), but I dont wanna end up like some of these
> dour, bitter, scowling folks I see out there, and it'd be real pleasant
> like to have a friend or two. So, where does a stranger go to meet folks
> who wont rip 'em a new one just cuz theyre new around here?
Try Alabama...
Dave Thompson
"movealonghippie" <viscera...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:92iu8b$vev$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> Why are portlanders so mean to strangers?
Though I've found Portlanders to have more than their fair share of
irritating chauvanism, I've found them to be more than friendly to
strangers. Most people out here in the west are private minded and keep to
themselves, but Oregonians warmth stands out especially compared to L.A.,
Denver, and Las Vegas. Just get in a car and drive. The politeness on the
roads here can be fairly shocking.
Chris Gattman
> Why are portlanders so mean to strangers? It seems like folks must
> practice pretending other people are invisible.
Heya, hippie. I'll trust that this isn't a troll and try to answer your
question.
Portlanders catch shit from everybody. They get it from Californians for
not being as cool as Californians, they get it from Seattlefolk who sort
of snub Portland like it's their little brother, and they catch shit from
rural Oregon (sometimes, though, they deserve it. :>)
People don't come to Portland to be social, it gets cold and crappy out
and people have shit to do. I don't think this justifies the behavior you
describe, which is much less prevalent in places like New Orleans where
people seem more likely to strike a conversation. In Seattle, they're
more likely to bug you for heroin money.
Native Portlanders are an increasing minority and they get defensive
because their (our) culture is increasingly threatened by people who move
here to pillage and plunder Portland's---okay, I want to say "prosperity"
but that's just too damned many P's in a row---success. Meanwhile, they
want to terraform Portland into whatever culture they left behind so that
it's no longer Portland at all.
>> I had some guy walk
> right into me and almost pushed me down on the sidewalk the other day,
> while he was looking right past me, then ,guess what, no acknowledgment
> of his action! I mean what the hell, is it the weather? Yeah it sucks,
> but...
How do you know he was a Portland native? We are nearly a minority, you
know.
.
> I thought it was just me, so I kept my mouth shut , but when the
> asswipe walked into me, I asked around and everyone I spoke with agreed
> with me ,EXCEPT native PDXers.They just replied with a "uhhh,idunno"
> then shuffle off
I talked to a guy in rural Louisiana one time. We were looking at some
oddity he had in his yard and he invited us in for tea (iced) when he
found out we were from Oregon. We talked about both places...he'd been bo
Oregon and spoke very favorably...but we all agreed that Oregonians aren't
generally as sociable or open. GENERALLY we respect your space and
expect you to respect ours. Meanwhile, we're being flooded by people who
wipe out the wetlands, the forests, the views, the mom-and-pop joints and
the quiet neighborhoods to built suburbs and cookie-cutter communities
that make us feel like we're no longer a part of the area in which we've
lived all of our lives.
The standoffish behavior is simply a cultural tendency toward isolationism
which, when you think about it, is EXACTLY what Oregon has always been
about. It's not a bad thing, it doesn't reflect an opinion toward other
people necessarily, but to NATIVES, it's just the way it's always been.
As a native, I don't particularly like it all the time although I see it
in myself quite frequently when people are talking to me around town.
> I just moved back here after several years absent( froma southern
> state, where we know how to respect one another and be polite
Okay...now you gotta fess up. WHICH state?
> hard time meeting and making new friends, except here. Are y'all just so
> secure in your own worlds that you cant let anyone else in?
We want to be except for the perpetual encroachment on our security by
people from outside (particularly urban, but then you have
latently-homosexual antichristians like Lon Mabon trying to tell you what
to do, and lobbyists from other states, and extortionists from California,
and...)
> flames Ill get from this), but I dont wanna end up like some of these
> dour, bitter, scowling folks I see out there, and it'd be real pleasant
Yeah. I thought about selling bumper stickers that say "BE NICE OR PISS
OFF" and "THINK POSITIVE OR PISS OFF." ("Mean people suck" started, I
believe, in Eugene.)
> like to have a friend or two. So, where does a stranger go to meet folks
> who wont rip 'em a new one just cuz theyre new around here?
Depends on your interests. I'm pretty sure I can steer you in the right
direction.
-gatt
Chris Gattman
"We should not forget that our tradition is one of protest and revolt
and that it is stultifying to celebrate the rebels of the past...while we
silence the rebels of the present."
gene poole
"John Judy" <mega...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> <SNIP>
>
> > I thought it was just me, so I kept my mouth shut , but when the
> > asswipe walked into me, I asked around and everyone I spoke with
agreed
> > with me ,EXCEPT native PDXers.They just replied with a "uhhh,idunno"
> > then shuffle off:)
>
> This doesn't even make sense. Asked around about what? Did the guy
walk into
> you again? Did you just go up to strangers and ask them why someone
walked
> into you?
>
> > I just moved back here after several years absent( froma southern
> > state, where we know how to respect one another and be polite)
>
> Well, don't let the door hit you on the ass on the way out
>
> > and I dont remember it being this way. I mean Im not the most
outgoing or
> > attractive or succesful person out there, but Christ, Ive never had
a
> > hard time meeting and making new friends, except here. Are y'all
just so
> > secure in your own worlds that you cant let anyone else in?
> >I mean this
> > w/ all due respect and not in the spirit of mean-ness( anticipating
the
> > flames Ill get from this), but I dont wanna end up like some of
these
> > dour, bitter, scowling folks I see out there, and it'd be real
pleasant
> > like to have a friend or two. So, where does a stranger go to meet
folks
> > who wont rip 'em a new one just cuz theyre new around here?
>
> Try Alabama...
>
> > Sorry bout that long wind!:)
> >
> >
> > Sent via Deja.com
> > http://www.deja.com/
>
>
--
cthulhu ftaghn Ia IA!!
gene poole
displayed in the first response. Its this outright
arrogant'mean-ness",like anyone not in your private little circle has
anything of worth to offer you. Why so closed?
--
cthulhu ftaghn Ia IA!!
gene poole
<Pine.GSO.4.10.100122...@user2.teleport.com>,
feeling of hate in the air that I don't get. I mean look at this (
expletive deleted) post from mr.Judy. That's exactly what I mean. And by
the way my life has been neatly split in half between the time Ive spent
here and on the right coast. Just cuz I wasnt born here is justification
for this kind of brutality?( OK thats a strong word, but I like it)
>
> >> I had some guy walk
> > right into me and almost pushed me down on the sidewalk the other
day,
> > while he was looking right past me, then ,guess what, no
acknowledgment
> > of his action! I mean what the hell, is it the weather? Yeah it
sucks,
> > but...
>
> How do you know he was a Portland native? We are nearly a minority,
you
> know.
> .
> > I thought it was just me, so I kept my mouth shut , but when the
> > asswipe walked into me, I asked around and everyone I spoke with
agreed
> > with me ,EXCEPT native PDXers.They just replied with a "uhhh,idunno"
> > then shuffle off
>
> I talked to a guy in rural Louisiana one time. We were looking at
some
> oddity he had in his yard and he invited us in for tea (iced) when he
> found out we were from Oregon. We talked about both places...he'd
been bo
> Oregon and spoke very favorably...but we all agreed that Oregonians
aren't
> generally as sociable or open. GENERALLY we respect your space and
> expect you to respect ours. Meanwhile, we're being flooded by people
who
> wipe out the wetlands, the forests, the views, the mom-and-pop joints
and
> the quiet neighborhoods to built suburbs and cookie-cutter communities
> that make us feel like we're no longer a part of the area in which
we've
> lived all of our lives.
are the definition of what you describe, growth for its own sake with no
controls, makes a place downright unlivable.
>
> The standoffish behavior is simply a cultural tendency toward
isolationism
> which, when you think about it, is EXACTLY what Oregon has always been
> about. It's not a bad thing, it doesn't reflect an opinion toward
other
> people necessarily, but to NATIVES, it's just the way it's always
been.
>
> As a native, I don't particularly like it all the time although I see
it
> in myself quite frequently when people are talking to me around town.
>
> > I just moved back here after several years absent( froma southern
> > state, where we know how to respect one another and be polite
>
> Okay...now you gotta fess up. WHICH state?
state, not out of a feeling of pride, but because its like the pot
callin the kettle black, ya know(heehee)
>
> > hard time meeting and making new friends, except here. Are y'all
just so
> > secure in your own worlds that you cant let anyone else in?
>
> We want to be except for the perpetual encroachment on our security by
> people from outside (particularly urban, but then you have
> latently-homosexual antichristians like Lon Mabon trying to tell you
what
> to do, and lobbyists from other states, and extortionists from
California,
> and...)
not driving a bulldozer through forest park waving the KKK flag or
anything Im just someone who'd like to meet some folks around here.
>
> > flames Ill get from this), but I dont wanna end up like some of
these
> > dour, bitter, scowling folks I see out there, and it'd be real
pleasant
>
> Yeah. I thought about selling bumper stickers that say "BE NICE OR
PISS
> OFF" and "THINK POSITIVE OR PISS OFF." ("Mean people suck" started, I
> believe, in Eugene.)
>
> > like to have a friend or two. So, where does a stranger go to meet
folks
> > who wont rip 'em a new one just cuz theyre new around here?
>
> Depends on your interests. I'm pretty sure I can steer you in the
right
> direction.
> -gatt
this decade) Godzilla movies( go go go ) Anime, Fringe art, but Im not
really defined by my tastes, Im up for anything.
Thanks for your civilized response. Ill admit, I do like stirring up
(little) waves heehee
>
> Chris Gattman
> "We should not forget that our tradition is one of protest and
revolt
> and that it is stultifying to celebrate the rebels of the past...while
we
> silence the rebels of the present."
>
>
--
cthulhu ftaghn Ia IA!!
Dave Thompson
"gene poole" <viscera...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:92j5d2$5ej$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <D3836.5484$8Y.6...@nntp3.onemain.com>,
> yes that may be correct, the attitude Im reffering to is the one
> displayed in the first response. Its this outright
> arrogant'mean-ness",like anyone not in your private little circle has
> anything of worth to offer you. Why so closed?
I don't know that you're not a troll, but will give you the benefit of the
doubt and answer as a recent immagrant to the area. People in the west like
their space, their solitude, and their privacy. Quite frankly when I lived
in the south I found it annoying as hell how cloying and nosey people were
compared to my home town Phoenix. I like being left alone. I like knowing
that the guy who fixed my flat doesn't expect me to take him out to coffee
and meet his family. I have a good life, and good friends, and a good
family. If I want anybody to be part of that it takes a while for me to warm
up. This may be the way I feel, but I believe a majority of people out here
to feel the same way.
I suspect your experience was either tainted because of the way you
approached people, or you were in the wronfg place at the wrong time. If you
were in downtown Portland then some of it could have been because people
down there are sick and tired of being hit up for change by losers that they
treat anybody without a suit and tie like they were some teenager bumming
change for a Latte at Shitbucks.
My experience here has been realistic and pleasant. My neighbors greeted us
warmly but haven't tried to get us to come over for dinner or anything else.
The people I have worked with are professional and have upheld my belief
that business and socializing don't mix. Portland drivers are some of the
friendliest I have ever encountered - and they give GOOD directions when
you're lost.
The downside is that they believe this is the best place to live in the
world to the point of being insulting and at the same time disdain anyone
else moving here. I have had more than a handfull of people react to my
telling them I moved here from Phoenix with the phrase "Why would you want
to live there for? I'll bet you're so glad to be here." Not taking into
account that I moved from a city that has suffered far worse from people
moving there, with a lifestyle and economy that might have a small bit to do
with it.
BTW - I am glad I moved here. I had my reasons - but I do miss my hometown,
especially around this time of the year.
So, if you ever find yourself here again, adjust not only your expectations
but your attitude. You might find people more pleasant if you give them a
chance.
Roy Lewallen
> . . .
> Native Portlanders are an increasing minority and they get defensive
> because their (our) culture is increasingly threatened by people who move
> here to pillage and plunder Portland's---okay, I want to say "prosperity"
> but that's just too damned many P's in a row---success. Meanwhile, they
> want to terraform Portland into whatever culture they left behind so that
> it's no longer Portland at all.
> . . .
This looks like a good opportunity to clarify a puzzling question I've
had about the social structure here.
I've lived in Oregon now for 26 years, but I'm not a Native Oregonian.
My daughter and son are 25 and 21 and were born here. So shouldn't my
Native daughter and son resent my presence in Oregon as an outsider?
At this point I'd like to apologize to all Oregon Natives --
particularly you who are 25 years old and younger -- for intruding on
their turf and trashing their state. I suppose the only socially
responsible thing to do is return to the state of my birth, which I left
at age 2, where *I* can sneer at all the non-Natives.
For what it's worth, the house I bought shortly after arriving was built
20 years before I arrived, and I still live in the same house. How many
of you Natives are living in some of those new houses covering what I
remember as being green hillsides?
Roy Lewallen
Chris Gattman
> > want to terraform Portland into whatever culture they left behind so
> that
> > it's no longer Portland at all.
> Now I really understand all that, and agree with you but there's this
> feeling of hate in the air that I don't get. I mean look at this (
> expletive deleted) post from mr.Judy.
Judy's biggest crime is introducing my good friend Kent to really cheap
beer back in college. His reaction might have something to do with the
spike in trolls who come to the NG just to trash on Portland.
> That's exactly what I mean. And by
> the way my life has been neatly split in half between the time Ive spent
> here and on the right coast. Just cuz I wasnt born here is justification
> for this kind of brutality?( OK thats a strong word, but I like it)
Do you really experience it? How does it compare to the kind of behavior
you'd come across in Richmond, NYC or some other place? Haven't been
north of DC, so I don't know.
South of DC, all bets are off. A friend of mine, moving to Virgnia,
swerved to avoid something and ran her U-Haul ('Course it'd have to be a
"Y'all Hall") and when she went to get help, a guy with a pickup asked
here where she was from. She said they'd just moved down from Boston.
His exact words were "I fly my flag." (Confederate) and he refused to
help her. She shoulda said she was from Oregon and that would have
confused him enough that his southern hospitality would have come out.
In Mississippi and Louisiana, where I've spent a lot of time, there is
simply NO COMPARISON. "Southern hospitality" is not just a legend. Those
folks are friendly, talkative and generally very amiable. Stopped to take
a picture of a bayou north of Gulfport and the pickup got stuck in the
mud. Before I could get out to push, not less than four trucks offered to
tow us out, and we took the offer after I sunk to my shins in mud.
'Course, I'm white.
Meanwhile, I threw a rod on I-5N just north of Albany one morning, and
walked over a mile down the road in a SUIT AND TIE without a single person
offering to help. That included two State troopers who blew past me like
I wasn't even there. Finally, when I was walking into the Albany
southbound rest area, some guy pulled over and offered me a ride the whole
200 feet or whatever to the phone. (Figured, anybody who offers a ride
200 feet is probably creepy...but maybe that's the Oregonian in me.)
> > Okay...now you gotta fess up. WHICH state?
> GA I would appreciate no comments about the "backwardsness" of the
> state, not out of a feeling of pride, but because its like the pot
> callin the kettle black, ya know(heehee)
Hey, man. I lived in Mississippi for a bit. They're so
backwardass-backward that they end up going forward sometimes.
> Hmmm lessee Music(used to hang at Satyricon alot in the earlier part of
> this decade)
Times have changed. Check out the Tabor, or pick up a copy of JAM or
BARFLY and look around. Satyricon is like one of those exotic bird
aviaries at the zoo. (Fellini is pretty cool, but it's close to the
same.) Ash Street, Dantes, Cobalt, Tabor, Biddy McGraw's, plenty of
non-alcohol places too. Uhhhh......(struggling to name one. :> )
> Godzilla movies( go go go ) Anime, Fringe art, but Im not
> really defined by my tastes, Im up for anything.
Cinema 21 on 21st is good. There's a really cool coffee shop about two
blocks north with a really lively social scene going on there and all
kinds of weird stuff gets posted on their bulletin boards. I haven't found
an art scene around town that wasn't a bit stuffy and pretensious, but
that doesn't mean there isn't one.
If you really want your musical hairs blown back, go see Carmina Piranha.
It's sort of ultra-intelligent chick rock that doesn't suck. Last time I
saw them (couple of weeks ago at the Tabor) I got chills.
My band is playing at the Arnada on 17th in Vancouver on January 19.
Small triprock sort of gig, cheap beer, bizarre Vancouverite crowd. That's
something else to do.
-gatt
Dave Thompson
"Chris Gattman" <ga...@teleport.com> wrote in message
news:Pine.GSO.4.10.100122...@user2.teleport.com...
> On Fri, 29 Dec 2000, gene poole wrote:
> In Mississippi and Louisiana, where I've spent a lot of time, there is
> simply NO COMPARISON. "Southern hospitality" is not just a legend. Those
> folks are friendly, talkative and generally very amiable. Stopped to take
> a picture of a bayou north of Gulfport and the pickup got stuck in the
> mud. Before I could get out to push, not less than four trucks offered to
> tow us out, and we took the offer after I sunk to my shins in mud.
>
> 'Course, I'm white.
Exactly.
When I lived in Texas, the thing I thought funny was that according to them,
I was a Yankee. I was born and raised in Phoenix, AZ - South and West of
Texas and technically a southern state during the CW. Forget of course that
most of Texas looks and leans to the east and south. No reasoning on my part
could change that, yet despite all my natural born faults they let me into
their houses with a smile. It helped to be a Cowboy's fan.
Oh, and I really couldn't take that they drink their Ice Tea sweat.
All the politeness in the world, though, doesn't forgive the fact that the
south treats blacks as ignorant and hispanics as children. It really is
another world down there.
Barry Chalcroft
> "Oh, and I really couldn't take that they drink their Ice Tea sweet.
Ahh, sweet tea, mmm. Is there any other way to drink tea? I grew up in North
Carolina where it's mandantory.
Gee, 13 Years in Austin, Texas and I never could find "Sweet Tea" anywhere. Just
the informed answer "We got sugar.....". What part of Texas was that?
Fortunately I have a good Mormon non tea drinking wife who makes me the best
sweet tea around. She must have some southern blood in her genes.
-barryc
Dave Thompson
"Barry Chalcroft" <bar...@gstworld.net> wrote in message
news:3A4D6586...@gstworld.net...
> Dave Thompson wrote:
>
> > "Oh, and I really couldn't take that they drink their Ice Tea sweet.
>
> Ahh, sweet tea, mmm. Is there any other way to drink tea? I grew up in
North
> Carolina where it's mandantory.
>
> Gee, 13 Years in Austin, Texas and I never could find "Sweet Tea"
anywhere. Just
> the informed answer "We got sugar.....". What part of Texas was that?
Austin.
Barry Chalcroft
-bdc
Dave Thompson
From the Green Mesquite to The Ironworks, from Threadgills to Antones the
tea was all the same.
>
>
gene poole
Satyricon a coupla weeks ago to see the Rock*A*Teens ( a kick ass band
from cabbagetown GA) and the place scared the hell out of me so bad I
didnt go in. I mean it looked like someone had mopped the floor and
there were lights (non-black) on!! what the hell!!So itll be fun
checking out some new joints.By the way, Im not really into elec. music
that much, but like a more ethereal, dreamy/slow kinda music( opal,mazzy
star, n.cave, etc) any local suggestions. Tell me more 'bout yer band.
Ive heard about the Arnada's bizzareness though, froma guy in
Iknowkungfu, who play there.
Tim Roberts
>
>When I lived in Texas, the thing I thought funny was that according to them,
>I was a Yankee. I was born and raised in Phoenix, AZ - South and West of
>Texas and technically a southern state during the CW.
Since you used the word "technically", I will invite myself to be so.
Although the people of Arizona did vote to align themselves with the
Confederacy in 1861, technically, Arizona did not become a state until
almost 47 years after the end of the Civil War.
--
- Tim Roberts, ti...@probo.com
Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.
Tim Roberts
>
>This looks like a good opportunity to clarify a puzzling question I've
>had about the social structure here.
>
>I've lived in Oregon now for 26 years, but I'm not a Native Oregonian.
>My daughter and son are 25 and 21 and were born here. So shouldn't my
>Native daughter and son resent my presence in Oregon as an outsider?
I'd like to scoff at this, but the phenomenon is real.
I was born in Portland. My folks still live in the northeast Portland
house where I grew up. (Well, it was "unincorporated Multnomah County"
then; now it's "City of Portland".) I went to David Douglas High School
and Oregon State University. After graduation, we went to California for
10 years. At the birth of our daughter, we realized we didn't want to
raise her in the California school system, so we moved back to Tigard,
where we've been for a decade.
Upon my return in 1990, I found what I considered to be a surprising level
of suspicion and resentment. I actually found myself apologizing at
get-togethers for my decade in California. "No, really, I was born here!"
>For what it's worth, the house I bought shortly after arriving was built
>20 years before I arrived, and I still live in the same house. How many
>of you Natives are living in some of those new houses covering what I
>remember as being green hillsides?
Me, sadly. I live on Bull Mountain. I'd like to be filled with righteous
indigation at the continue decimation of the open spaces, as more and more
of the rural hillside is converted into identical luxury homettes, but
that's a bit hypocritical coming from someone who is living on what was a
hazelnut orchard until 1988.
Joyce Reynolds-Ward
wrote:
snip
>For what it's worth, the house I bought shortly after arriving was built
>20 years before I arrived, and I still live in the same house. How many
>of you Natives are living in some of those new houses covering what I
>remember as being green hillsides?
Not me, unless you count Westmoreland's 1920-era development to be
such....
jrw
Dave Thompson
"Tim Roberts" <ti...@probo.com> wrote in message
news:715v4t86jc4k6b771...@4ax.com...
> "Dave Thompson" <Dave...@telepoxt.com> wrote:
> >
> >When I lived in Texas, the thing I thought funny was that according to
them,
> >I was a Yankee. I was born and raised in Phoenix, AZ - South and West of
> >Texas and technically a southern state during the CW.
>
> Since you used the word "technically", I will invite myself to be so.
>
> Although the people of Arizona did vote to align themselves with the
> Confederacy in 1861, technically, Arizona did not become a state until
> almost 47 years after the end of the Civil War.
No kidding? (Technically this is sarcasm).
Technically - the vote itself was a ruse to get the United States to declare
it a state. It didn't work
Steve and Shellie
I'm sorry you've had such a poor introduction to Portlanders. How sad! I
was born and raised in the Portland, Oregon area and truly love it here,
including the weather. Perhaps the old cliche, "don't let one bad egg spoil
the dozen" would be appropriate here... I don't know. Either way, I just
wanted to say a heart WELCOME TO PORTLAND and wish you the best of luck in
settling in in the new year.
Shellie =)
John Judy
> In article <au736.48$KD3....@typhoon.aracnet.com>,
> "John Judy" <mega...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > <SNIP>
> >
> > > I thought it was just me, so I kept my mouth shut , but when the
> > > asswipe walked into me, I asked around and everyone I spoke with
> agreed
> > > with me ,EXCEPT native PDXers.They just replied with a "uhhh,idunno"
> > > then shuffle off:)
> >
> > This doesn't even make sense. Asked around about what? Did the guy
> walk into
> > you again? Did you just go up to strangers and ask them why someone
> walked
> > into you?
> THANK YOU for validating my point!!
If you mean your point of showing yourself to be a confused little tweaker,
NP.
> >
> > > I just moved back here after several years absent( froma southern
> > > state, where we know how to respect one another and be polite)
> >
> > Well, don't let the door hit you on the ass on the way out
> awww poor baby did I insult YOU
Umm... OK. I'll just leave that one in the playground.
Chris Gattman
> Hey thanks fer the info, Ill check some of these places out. I went by
> Satyricon a coupla weeks ago to see the Rock*A*Teens ( a kick ass band
> from cabbagetown GA) and the place scared the hell out of me so bad I
> didnt go in. I mean it looked like someone had mopped the floor and
> there were lights (non-black) on!!
Rare. Was it a weeknight? Seriously, though, they've gotten some really
stiff competition by many great new venues downtown, and they've chased
off most of the junkies. Fellini, the restaurant next door, is my
favorite restaurant in town. (Delta Cafe is next.)
> what the hell!!So itll be fun
> checking out some new joints.By the way, Im not really into elec. music
> that much, but like a more ethereal, dreamy/slow kinda music( opal,mazzy
> star, n.cave, etc) any local suggestions.
High Violets, King Black Acid, LavaDemure, Kaitlyn Ni Donovan (f'sure!)
and Carmina Piranha for starters. All good.
> Tell me more 'bout yer band.
Sorta heavy original spacerock, like early Pink Floyd w/ Soundgarden or
Black Sabbath or something. It's not exactly formula northwest grunge.
(I play, among other things, a zydeco scrubboard over soundbites from the
movie "Alien.") We sometimes do a 5-minute heavyish cover of "Set the
Controls for the Heart of the Sun" which pretty much sets the tone.
> Ive heard about the Arnada's bizzareness though, froma guy in
> Iknowkungfu, who play there.
Yeah. I think I knowIknowkungfu. Arnada is sort of a buttrock bistro but
it's small and the ownership is extremely pleasant so most nights it's
cool. They're trying to save enough cash to upgrade their PA, but they
get left behind because they're not as trendy as the PDX clubs.
Chris Gattman
>
> >For what it's worth, the house I bought shortly after arriving was built
> >20 years before I arrived, and I still live in the same house. How many
> >of you Natives are living in some of those new houses covering what I
> >remember as being green hillsides?
>
> Not me, unless you count Westmoreland's 1920-era development to be
> such....
I grew up on a green hillside that served as the family farm, and still
does, along with half a dozen other houses. You can see my family house
from Portland; it's visible on clear days in the foreground under Larch
Mountain on the bluff across the Sandy River over Troutdale. We had to
help get a Scenic Protection Act passed in the Gorge 'cause of some
asshole from out of state who thought he could built three-story condos
along the top of the gorge after clearcutting the top of the hill.
(It took one average winter to prove otherwise.)
Since my family moved up there in 1975, Portland has sprawled out like
mold in a coffee pot. It's coming for us, but it won't get past the
river.
Meanwhile, I live in the house my grandparents built (in what is now
*cringe* Gresham) while their home in Vanport was being washed away. My
grandmother moved here from Colorado to build ships for the war, and my
grandfather was discharged from the service here in 1945. Been here ever
since.
I'd like to live in New Orleans, but the gorge, the mountains and the
ocean are magnetic.
Chris Gattman
> > Native Portlanders are an increasing minority and they get defensive
> > because their (our) culture is increasingly threatened by people who move
> > here to pillage and plunder Portland's---okay, I want to say "prosperity"
> > but that's just too damned many P's in a row---success. Meanwhile, they
> > want to terraform Portland into whatever culture they left behind so that
> > it's no longer Portland at all.
>
> This looks like a good opportunity to clarify a puzzling question I've
> had about the social structure here.
>
> I've lived in Oregon now for 26 years, but I'm not a Native Oregonian.
> My daughter and son are 25 and 21 and were born here. So shouldn't my
> Native daughter and son resent my presence in Oregon as an outsider?
If you prefer. It sounds like you're looking for the fight, so I guess
they'd be doing you a favor by taking it up with you.
> At this point I'd like to apologize to all Oregon Natives --
> particularly you who are 25 years old and younger -- for intruding on
> their turf and trashing their state. I suppose the only socially
> responsible thing to do is return to the state of my birth, which I left
> at age 2, where *I* can sneer at all the non-Natives.
That'd be just fine.
> For what it's worth, the house I bought shortly after arriving was built
> 20 years before I arrived, and I still live in the same house. How many
> of you Natives are living in some of those new houses covering what I
> remember as being green hillsides?
It sounds like you're predisposed to being defensive about this. Why?
If you want to get all freaky and confrontational about it, well...
...okay.
staff_reporter
somewhere and pieces of asshole went flying everywhere!! Chrissy,
you're in like every thread! LOL
On Fri, 29 Dec 2000 14:58:12 -0800, Chris Gattman <ga...@teleport.com>
wrote:
>People don't come to Portland to be social, it gets cold and crappy out
>and people have shit to do.
Yes of course, like shoot their verbal cumwad into internet
newsgroups. Cold and crappy????....why don't you move to the other
Portland and see how balmy it is over there...hehe!
>...but we all agreed that Oregonians aren't
>generally as sociable or open.
>The standoffish behavior is simply a cultural tendency toward isolationism
Sure, I get it....so what you're saying is....you're an ASSHOLE??
>which, when you think about it, is EXACTLY what Oregon has always been
>about. It's not a bad thing, it doesn't reflect an opinion toward other
>people necessarily, but to NATIVES, it's just the way it's always been.
Well, you're definitely an Oregonoid, aka self-righteous, elitist,
pompous prick....as for 'NATIVE'??...HUH UH WHITEY, the only Native
Oregonians left are dealing blackjack at Chinook. It's just the way
it's always been??....going back how far??....in addition, it sounds
rather stifling and unprogressive to me.....that's just the way it is,
somethings will never change??....thanks Bruce-fucking-Hornsby.
>We want to be except for the perpetual encroachment on our security by
>people from outside (particularly urban, but then you have
>latently-homosexual antichristians like Lon Mabon trying to tell you what
>to do, and lobbyists from other states, and extortionists from California,
>and...)
Our little friend is just seething with hypocrisies, aren't ya little
fellow?? Oh we're so liberated but at the same time, please don't
stay and only visit.....hmm....kind of a microcosm of the right-wing
position on the U.S. borders?? Well cracker, think of it as a long
overdue payment on your ancestors' encroachment of the American
Indians who were pushed aside.....payback's a bitch! hahaaa
>How do you know he was a Portland native? We are nearly a minority, you
>know.
Thank God. And believe me, oregon-morons are easy to scope once
they're in the cross-hairs....kind of a racial profiling in which the
race part is taken out and substituted with asshole....but of course
it's only a correlation, not a stereotype, that they may have a
goatee, short blonde hair, piercings/tattoos, no personality, no sense
of humor, no smile, and mumble 'you bet(cha)' a lot for simple lack of
engaging their brain....but that's only my opinion, I could be wrong.
:)
Recap: Oregonoids are unfriendly; Chrissy is just retarded.
S.R.
"Oregon...home of Tonya Harding!"
Tim Roberts
>>
>> Although the people of Arizona did vote to align themselves with the
>> Confederacy in 1861, technically, Arizona did not become a state until
>> almost 47 years after the end of the Civil War.
>
>it a state. It didn't work
Now, THAT I didn't know...
Thanks for a valuable addition to my trivia file.
John Judy
>
> Recap: Oregonoids are unfriendly; Chrissy is just retarded.
And you're a dipshit.. and kill filed.. Plonk... Ahhh.......
Dave Thompson
> "Dave Thompson" <Dave...@telepoxt.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Although the people of Arizona did vote to align themselves with the
> >> Confederacy in 1861, technically, Arizona did not become a state until
> >> almost 47 years after the end of the Civil War.
> >
> >Technically - the vote itself was a ruse to get the United States to
declare
> >it a state. It didn't work
>
> Now, THAT I didn't know...
>
> Thanks for a valuable addition to my trivia file.
The U.S. congress put off the vote for New Mexico and Arizona statehood to
avoid adding new slave states. The two states were originally aligned with
an east to west border, with New Mexico on the north and AZ on the south.
The territories were redrawn in their current division so if the south were
to claim one of the states - they would not have an unimpeaded access to
California and another coast.
Arizona declaring itself a sothern state was short lived. The north sent a
small army through on its way to California - claimed the territory for the
north and rode on.
Chris Gattman
> It's like a chinese-asshole-firework display that went horribly awry
> somewhere and pieces of asshole went flying everywhere!! Chrissy,
> you're in like every thread! LOL
Are you flirting with me again? Go away, cupcake. I'm not interested in
you.
> position on the U.S. borders?? Well cracker, think of it as a long
> overdue payment on your ancestors' encroachment of the Amer
....what? Did somebody have something to say? Awww.
You're an insignificant little dick and your opinion is worthless.
Cosmo
> You're an insignificant little dick and your opinion is worthless.
Pot, meet kettle. You're meant for each other.
Chris Gattman
*yawn*
You either read the entire thread, which means you enjoyed it, or you
jumped in the middle and have no idea what the hell you're talking about.
I don't really care which is the case. Have a nice day.
Nabil Najim
College, I moved to New York to work for Goldman Sachs. Well, we moved
back. And, you know what I have noticed, the people in Beaverton are not as
nice as the people in NE Portland area. That is still the classic oregonians
that I love so much. Their attitude towards life and people in general are
much warmer than the diverse group here in the SW area that are so
suspicious of people. All people like in the SW area are their luxury
sedans and clothes and "oh, where do you work?"
I don't miss New York at all. I hated it there. But, I will move from
beaverton the first chance I get. Beaverton is a dead town. Lots of concrete
with little to offer. RAT RACE CITY.
As far as your experience, keep in mind that the recent influx of workers
coming to oregon has caused this town to become less patient and more
hostile. But, don't let one incident spoil the PORTLAND EXPERIENCE. It is
truly unique.
"movealonghippie" <viscera...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:92iu8b$vev$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> Why are portlanders so mean to strangers? It seems like folks must
> practice pretending other people are invisible. I had some guy walk
> right into me and almost pushed me down on the sidewalk the other day,
> while he was looking right past me, then ,guess what, no acknowledgment
> of his action! I mean what the hell, is it the weather? Yeah it sucks,
> but....
> I thought it was just me, so I kept my mouth shut , but when the
> asswipe walked into me, I asked around and everyone I spoke with agreed
> with me ,EXCEPT native PDXers.They just replied with a "uhhh,idunno"
> then shuffle off:)
> I just moved back here after several years absent( froma southern
> state, where we know how to respect one another and be polite)and I dont
> remember it being this way. I mean Im not the most outgoing or
> attractive or succesful person out there, but Christ, Ive never had a
> hard time meeting and making new friends, except here. Are y'all just so
> secure in your own worlds that you cant let anyone else in? I mean this
> w/ all due respect and not in the spirit of mean-ness( anticipating the
> flames Ill get from this), but I dont wanna end up like some of these
> dour, bitter, scowling folks I see out there, and it'd be real pleasant
> like to have a friend or two. So, where does a stranger go to meet folks
> who wont rip 'em a new one just cuz theyre new around here?
viet
>
> "Dave Thompson" <Dave...@telepoxt.com> wrote:
>
> >The politeness on the
> >roads here can be fairly shocking.
>
> As in:
>
> Q: How do you keep four Oregonians busy for a half hour?
>
> A: Put up a 4-way stop at an intersection.
LOL
--
********************************************************
Do not walk behind me, for I may not lead. Do not walk
ahead of me, for I may not follow. Do not walk beside
me, either. Just leave me alone.
--------------------------------------------------------
Disclaimer:I don't speak for anyone, just me, I and
myself!
********************************************************
gene poole
vi...@XXhoangXX.net wrote:
> "Ben L." wrote:
> >
> > "Dave Thompson" <Dave...@telepoxt.com> wrote:
> >
> > >The politeness on the
> > >roads here can be fairly shocking.
> >
> > As in:
> >
> > Q: How do you keep four Oregonians busy for a half hour?
> >
> > A: Put up a 4-way stop at an intersection.
below the speed limit and stop at green lights
>
> LOL
> --
> ********************************************************
> Do not walk behind me, for I may not lead. Do not walk
> ahead of me, for I may not follow. Do not walk beside
> me, either. Just leave me alone.
> --------------------------------------------------------
> Disclaimer:I don't speak for anyone, just me, I and
> myself!
> ********************************************************
>
--
cthulhu ftaghn Ia IA!!
Chris Gattman
> I don't miss New York at all. I hated it there. But, I will move from
> beaverton the first chance I get. Beaverton is a dead town. Lots of concrete
> with little to offer. RAT RACE CITY.
I worked in the tech support industry out there, which was among the
saddest, most pathetic and terminally unhealthy places I've ever been
this side of Radio Shack.
You work in a cube; carpetted stall. You eat at a strip mall. You're
sedentary, stressed out, tethered to your computer and you sit there
fattening up like veal.
You play network video games all night and talk to your buddies about how
you can't get device drivers to install on your machine, and which video
card is best for gaming, and your new D&D campaign, and work, and you
compare your ability to recite South Park lines, or you play Magic The
Gathering all night while you and your ufriends bitch about how you
absolutely MUST get rid of that rapidly-expanding beer gut.
You don't do anything outside because, despite sitting in front of Diablo
II for the last 20 hours, you're simply too work-weary to go outside and
get some sunshine or exercise, which, of course, has nothing to do with
the fact that you don't have any energy because all you ever have for
dinner is Doritos and Pepsi. You can flip on the cable TV if you want a
night with your friends, and watch whatever Star Trek spinoff is on Fox
that night. Or, you can pop The Matrix in on your DVD system or put on
some goth-looking clothes or a biker jacket and go hang out around a
sports bar pool table with your work buddies.
You get old, you find somebody with the same lifestyle of the opposite
gender (or perhaps the same) and you either escape in a flurry of
inspiration or you settle in to a life of house payments and complaints
about traffic and taxes, and you get a high-paying job at Intel that
requires you to work on Sundays and some holidays. You get vacation, but
you have a pager, a cell phone and quite possibly a laptop.
You hit midlife and you're hollow-eyed, pasty skinned and oily from eating
junk food for decades, you're 40 pounds overweight, probably on Prozac,
your hairline is gone and you have nothing to show for your work but a
nice house--or not--and a car which, if you think about it, means nothing
because everybody else is driving the same SUV or economy car and living
in the same $1,200/month Trammil-Crowe property or cookie-cutter suburb.
If you're unfortunate enough to have knocked somebody up. you're screwed.
You might love your kids but you won't be happy because, unless the mother
(father) is a native of Aloha or a complete geek, they've gone so
depressed and screwy from living in the cultural vacuum that they split
town with the kids and you get to see them on the one or two days of the
week that you have to escape hell. Or, you're raising them on your
salary, which is 30% below the national standard but which you're told is
fine because houses are cheaper in Oregon...of course, that's elsewhere.
You haven't died from poor diet, sedentary life or depression yet. That's
ten years from now. If you think about it, is no different than the lives
of those sorry-ass tie-wearing lads at Radio Shack that look at the floor
and talk out of the corner of their mouth when they have to ask you for
the last four digits of your phone number so they don't get busted and
lose their near-minimum wage job. The difference is, your car probably
works and your house is comfortable. You don't even have the burden of
true economic hardship to give your life meaning.
But the money is good, and the life is good--or that's what you're told
anyway--so you're kept there working for Internet America. Take your place
in line.
Welcome to life along Highway 217.
Across the river, your ex-girlfriend, or ex-boyfriend's girlfriend, is
listing to Lava Demure play the street fair on Belmont, dancing to irish
folk music and learning about the IRA at Biddy McGraw's, learning about
body sculpture, playing drums in a rock band, viewing or selling art
during in northwest, or performing with an acting troupe, or just walking
the dog around the grassy slops and reservoirs near the exploded cinder
cone at Mt. Tabor Park.
Welcome to Portland.
Dave Thompson
"Ben L." <ne...@langN0SPAMlotz.com> wrote in message
news:3a56358c...@news.potlnd1.or.home.com...
> gene poole <viscera...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> > No shit. This is the ONLY place in the country where people drive
> >below the speed limit and stop at green lights
>
> sacrifice safety for politeness.
>
> Those well-meaning folks who wave you to illegally and unsafely turn
> left in front of them (while traffic maddeningly stacks up behind) are
> a blight.
>
> I suspect that the "nuts" who drive impatiently to an unsafe degree
> (or at least perceived as such), are largely motivated by frustration
> generated by the locals and geezers who are still in denial that
> Portland is a million-population metro area with crowded roads and
> many people whose time is valuable.
>
Wow, Ben, something I actually agree with you on.
When I first moved here I was amazed with the politeness of the drivers. Now
I'm annoyed by it.
I don't know how many times I've looked in my rearview mirror after passing
someone doing 10 mph under the speed limit in heavy traffic to see them
flipping me the bird or cussing me out for having the gall to pass them
because they going under the speed limit.
When I lived in Hillsboro I had the unique experience of being screamed at
in an intersection because I honked at someone doing 30 in a 45 zone.
The roads and the freeways here suck so bad. It's as if they build them to
intentionally NOT solve the problem they were meant for. Signage sucks and
stoplight timing is so off it's like someone at the traffic management
division just plain doesn't get what it means to expedite traffic.
My wife said it best. We were driving in Portland a few weeks ago and found
an intersection with all the streets plainly marked and the lights timed so
there wasn't a wait. She turned to me and said, "Somebody should call the
transportation department about this intersection. I know where I am and I g
ot through it without a wait. Someone fucked up."
Mick & Maureen Forstag
"Ben L." wrote:
> Chris Gattman <ga...@teleport.com> wrote:
>
> >I worked in the tech support industry out there, which was among the
> >saddest, most pathetic and terminally unhealthy places I've ever been
> >this side of Radio Shack.
> >
> >You work in a cube; carpetted stall. You eat at a strip mall. You're
> >sedentary, stressed out, tethered to your computer and you sit there
> >fattening up like veal....
>
> Chris, nice writing.
Tim Roberts
>
>The roads and the freeways here suck so bad. It's as if they build them to
>intentionally NOT solve the problem they were meant for. Signage sucks and
>stoplight timing is so off it's like someone at the traffic management
>division just plain doesn't get what it means to expedite traffic.
I have to disagree with part of this. Although California is clearly much
better, signage in Oregon is better than in most of the states I've
traveled.
Dave Thompson
> "Dave Thompson" <Dave...@telepoxt.com> wrote:
> >
> >The roads and the freeways here suck so bad. It's as if they build them
to
> >intentionally NOT solve the problem they were meant for. Signage sucks
and
> >stoplight timing is so off it's like someone at the traffic management
> >division just plain doesn't get what it means to expedite traffic.
>
> I have to disagree with part of this. Although California is clearly much
> better, signage in Oregon is better than in most of the states I've
> traveled.
I'm curious. Why, when someone makes it evident they're not an Or native,
does everyone think they're from California? I'm not, BTW.
Signage in Or, compared to Phoenix, Dallas, Atlanta, Denver, and Seattle, is
pretty bad. It's not the worst, though. When I lived in Austin there were a
couple four-way intersections with only one or no signs.
Compared to most larger cities, Portland's street signage is completely
inadequate. It's signage for freeway entrances is even worse. Some freeways
have both entrances on the right hand side, some on the right and the left,
and no indication of where they are - and when they are marked it's about 50
feet from the entrance or placed where you can see it if you were already
making the turn. It's like they are saying, "If you don't already know where
you're going - tough" or maybe they just don't want to admit that traffic
can overload the streets and they don't want to compensate for it by moving
the far enough away and making them big enough to read and be usefull,
because then they'd have to admit they have a problem.
I don't know what Portland does, but some large congested cities have a
central "war room" at the DOT that uses sensors and cameras. to monitor
traffic and use freeway message boards, freeway entrance lights, and surface
street timing to alter traffic patterns and ease congestion. It might be
time for Portland to consider the possibility of planning such a system if
it hasn't already done so.
Igor II
be.
Igor II
strewn with poorly applied patches, bumps, holes, ruts and god only knows
what else.
Just nip over the bridge to Wa and the road seem a lot better.
staff_reporter
Joyce Reynolds-Ward
<Dave...@telepoxt.com> wrote:
snip
>Signage in Or, compared to Phoenix, Dallas, Atlanta, Denver, and Seattle, is
>pretty bad. It's not the worst, though. When I lived in Austin there were a
>couple four-way intersections with only one or no signs.
Um, try Florida (outside of Orlando, where The Mouse has the best
signage I've *ever* seen).
>Compared to most larger cities, Portland's street signage is completely
>inadequate. It's signage for freeway entrances is even worse. Some freeways
>have both entrances on the right hand side, some on the right and the left,
>and no indication of where they are - and when they are marked it's about 50
>feet from the entrance or placed where you can see it if you were already
>making the turn.
Ever been to Miami?
PDX looks positively great after a spell in South Florida...
;>
jrw
John Judy
"gene poole" <viscera...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:935174$s71$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <3A55F6E7...@hoang.net>,
> vi...@XXhoangXX.net wrote:
> > "Ben L." wrote:
> > >
> > > "Dave Thompson" <Dave...@telepoxt.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > >The politeness on the
> > > >roads here can be fairly shocking.
> > >
> > > As in:
> > >
> > > Q: How do you keep four Oregonians busy for a half hour?
> > >
> > > A: Put up a 4-way stop at an intersection.
> No shit. This is the ONLY place in the country where people drive
> below the speed limit and stop at green
What? Come cycle with me in Beaverton some time.. Red lights are a
suggestion at best.
John Judy
the majority of the people I work with) you've got no one to blame but
yourself... I work out here, and while my work hours are spent in a souless
cube with people of similar techincal aptitude (geeks) solving problem for
people of roughly similar technical aptitude, I have a VERY active life. I
don't have a flourescent tan, I'm not over weight, I don't eat garbage, I
don't play THAT much Quake III, I do cycle, run, lift, travel, etc...
etc..The key? Get off your ass and get out of Beaverton.. Oh, and don't live
there. I live in SW, and don't think you could pay me enough to move closer
to where I work. I call beaverton "That place I go to get money", not
"home". Oh, don't eat there either, learn to cook. It doesn't take as much
time as you think. Basically, go there, do your work, get your check and get
out... I know SO many people who are what you describe. It's sad, but it
ain't the business's fault, or the citys fault, it's their fault. They
bought a sterotype, premade lifestyle and forgot that you make your own
life.
That being said... My ex wife is a student of english lit, hangs out at
biddy's, runs at Mt. Tabor, lives of hawthorne, works downtown, etc... I
did that whole bit for a while. I got tired of smoky bars, pseudo-hippies,
etc.. etc... Nothing wrong with it per se, just not my scene anymore. I am
a rather reclusive type, and extented interaction with that many people
drains me. She loves it, and I would recommed that any youngish person
leave in SE for a while if they really want to get a taste of what I feel is
the best of Portland.
Anyway, I think Chris summarized the techie lifestyle pretty well, but just
because you work that way doesn't mean you have to live that way.
mcml...@my-deja.com
"Dave Thompson" <Dave...@telepoxt.com> wrote:
> People in the west like
> their space, their solitude, and their privacy.
As an transplant from San Diego, I have to agree. While I remember
growing up with the front door unlocked and no one minding that the
neighbor dropped in, I also feel some comfort knowing that my privacy
and personal life are not to be shared because others wish to intrude.
We all made acquaintences, we weren't that closed to exposure, but
those acquaintences were typically made in rather public places where
openness was routine, like clubs or parks or community centers. We all
respected each others' personal space and individual privacy.
> I suspect your experience was either tainted because of the way you
> approached people, or you were in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Again I concur. Many folks downtown are in their own world, or are
more cloistered than others simply because of the gauntlet many must
travel to get from transportation to office and back. Certainly it's
no different than many large cities with a homeless population, and I
would expect the same sort of indifference to being knocked down in any
downtown in the west.
In the residential and community areas, there is much more openness and
warmth, and even in some areas of downtown that are not subject to
quotes from Streisand songs ("Brother, can you spare a dime" if my
humor was too dry).
> Portland drivers are some of the
> friendliest I have ever encountered - and they give GOOD directions
when
> you're lost.
I'm rather mixed about this observation. I've experienced more than my
share of mean and indifferent drivers in Portland metro than in Los
Angeles. I've also seen kindness volunteered, but again not as much as
in L.A. It may be the area in which I drive, it may be that these
drivers are less experienced than I (I consider myself a very good
driver, and do often compare otherss performance to my own). It may be
that no one taught those drivers how to be courteous on the road. I
don't know. But I don't consider those drivers a representative of the
population up here.
But, I will offer a similar invitation to you as Dave: if you're moving
in, welcome. If you're visiting, welcome and buy some stuff. If you
got tackled by someone downtown, it was proabably a tourist from L.A.
who has never seen clear skies.
Chris Gattman
> nah....that's just his bio...granted artsy'd up a bit.
Igor can send me mail at edi...@jammagazine.com, or
JAM Magazine
ATTN: Editor-in-chief
PO Box 55037
Portland, Oregon, 97238
Or, just go to http://www.jammagazine.com
Granted, it's a volunteer position. I was getting paid to much at my day
job as a tech writer until just recently, when I moved to a better-paying
abuse admin position.
Now, "Staff Reporter"...what, exactly, are you getting at? What do YOU do
for a living? I'm positive it has nothing to do with writing.
-gatt
> On Mon, 08 Jan 2001 11:33:27 GMT, "Igor II" <nom...@thanks.com> wrote:
>
> >I'm new to this group. Are you a professional writer? If not, you should
> >be.
> >
> >
>
>
>
Chris Gattman
> "John Judy" <mega...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >What? Come cycle with me in Beaverton some time.. Red lights are a
> >suggestion at best.
>
> To bicyclists, granted, but the motorists actually do stop at reds,
> based on my observation.
It must depend on where you're at. Check out the Sylvan exit sometime.
It's amazing.
In Gresham there have supposedly been a lot of accidents and injuries
recently involving people blowing through yellow lights that turn. So, as
a result, there appears to be quite a merciless ticketing campaign going
on, especially in the school zones.
-Chris
Chris Gattman
> Chris Gattman <ga...@teleport.com> wrote:
>
> >I worked in the tech support industry out there, which was among the
> >saddest, most pathetic and terminally unhealthy places I've ever been
> >this side of Radio Shack.
> >
> >You work in a cube; carpetted stall. You eat at a strip mall. You're
> >sedentary, stressed out, tethered to your computer and you sit there
> >fattening up like veal....
>
> Chris, nice writing.
Thank you, Ben!
-c
mcml...@my-deja.com
100...@user2.teleport.com>,
Chris Gattman <ga...@teleport.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 8 Jan 2001, Ben L. wrote:
>
> > "John Judy" <mega...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > >What? Come cycle with me in Beaverton some time.. Red lights are a
> > >suggestion at best.
> >
> > To bicyclists, granted, but the motorists actually do stop at reds,
> > based on my observation.
>
> It must depend on where you're at. Check out the Sylvan exit
sometime.
> It's amazing.
John, even cyclists need to obey the laws.
But, there are many drivers and riders who do not stop at red lights,
rarely stop at stop signs, and perform numerous other unsafe acts while
in control of their modus vecturae. It's amazing so many of those
operators are still alive.
mcml...@my-deja.com
"Igor II" <nom...@thanks.com> wrote:
> I just wish they'd repair the bloody pot holes in the roads here.
They seem
> strewn with poorly applied patches, bumps, holes, ruts and god only
knows
> what else.
Many of California's less-travelled roads were in bad shape. And, if
the road was in an unincorporated area, no one would admit
responsibility.
> Just nip over the bridge to Wa and the road seem a lot better.
Ah, but those were the days when you had license fees that helped to
pay for those nice roads. Keep watching as they deteriorate over the
next few years and aren't fixed because there isn't enough money.
staff_reporter
something to say....you should try it sometime. Tech writer??....no
wonder you're so dry and boring. LOL Sell out!
What do I do? Now why would you want me to steal your bedroom
spotlight?? I'd tell ya but I missed the IPO on shitdon'tstink.com.
SR
On Mon, 8 Jan 2001 11:47:46 -0800, Chris Gattman <ga...@teleport.com>
wrote:
Tim Roberts
>
>"Tim Roberts" <ti...@probo.com> wrote:
>>
>> I have to disagree with part of this. Although California is clearly much
>> better, signage in Oregon is better than in most of the states I've
>> traveled.
>
>I'm curious. Why, when someone makes it evident they're not an Or native,
>does everyone think they're from California? I'm not, BTW.
Dave, after rereading my paragraph, I see how you could interpret it that
way, but that's really not what I meant. All I was trying to say was that,
in my experience, California has by far the best highway signage in the
country.
>Signage in Or, compared to Phoenix, Dallas, Atlanta, Denver, and Seattle, is
>pretty bad.
We'll have to agree to disagree. I think Oregon, in general, beats Seattle
and Denver. Phoenix is close. It's been 20 years since I drove in Dallas
or Atlanta, so I can't venture a comparison.
>I don't know what Portland does, but some large congested cities have a
>central "war room" at the DOT that uses sensors and cameras. to monitor
>traffic and use freeway message boards, freeway entrance lights, and surface
>street timing to alter traffic patterns and ease congestion. It might be
>time for Portland to consider the possibility of planning such a system if
>it hasn't already done so.
I agree with this. If there were an ODOT web page I could go to which gave
me a map of the city with the current average speed on the freeways at
critical points, I'd refer to it almost on a daily basis.
Igor II
Sorry to be pedantic (although for some people here it seems to be
mandatory) but you can't have an apostrophe in a domain name.
Igor II
There I was gettin' all excited thinking I was going to experience the
delight of fruit preserves when my eyeballs were accosted by the sight of
some website especially tailored for green haired
nose-and-everything-you-can-imagine-pierced rapskallions punkers.
I had a look at the site though - and you are right, we did have a really
cold period. It was so cold the other day I think I accidentally snapped my
nipple off.
Igor II
> pay for those nice roads. Keep watching as they deteriorate over the
> next few years and aren't fixed because there isn't enough money.
>
I've been thinking about it some more. Since WA lowered their license fee
their roads will probably start to go the same way now.
John Judy
"Igor II" <nom...@thanks.com> wrote in message
news:kBF66.246215$U46.7...@news1.sttls1.wa.home.com...
> > Or, just go to http://www.jammagazine.com
>
> There I was gettin' all excited thinking I was going to experience the
> delight of fruit preserves when my eyeballs were accosted by the sight of
> some website especially tailored for green haired
> nose-and-everything-you-can-imagine-pierced rapskallions punkers.
>
preserves?
John Judy
"Ben L." <ne...@langN0SPAMlotz.com> wrote in message
> "John Judy" <mega...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >What? Come cycle with me in Beaverton some time.. Red lights are a
> >suggestion at best.
>
> based on my observation.
Ben, you are amusing, but in this instance, you're absolutely,
demonstratively, wrong. If you can spend an hour or so driving through
beaverhell and still say "the motorists actually do stop at reds", you're a
liar or delusional. Now, your observation may only be your own driveway or
a particular street, in which case your mistake could be forgiven.
Otherwise, please come back to reality from your ether induced dreams of
cartopia... especially if your driving.
Chris Gattman
> Uh, when did I ever claim to be a writer?
Hmmm. Maybe it's the "STAFF REPORTER" part as your monicker, bunghole.
> I write when I have something to say....you should try it sometime.
*CACKLE*
Hey, look everybody. Bunghole is suggesting that I don't write when I
have something to say. A DejaNews search ought to provide even the most
marginally-literate idiot with exhaustive proof to the contrary.
> Tech writer??....no
> wonder you're so dry and boring. LOL Sell out!
> >Or, just go to http://www.jammagazine.com
It's unfortunate that you can't read.
Fortunately, we allow people like you the freedom to speak their stunted,
jealous little minds here in America.
John Judy
<mcml...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:93d9b4$88l$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <Pine.GSO.4.10.10101081148050.16720-
> 100...@user2.teleport.com>,
> Chris Gattman <ga...@teleport.com> wrote:
> > On Mon, 8 Jan 2001, Ben L. wrote:
> >
> > > "John Judy" <mega...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > >What? Come cycle with me in Beaverton some time.. Red lights are a
> > > >suggestion at best.
> > >
> > > To bicyclists, granted, but the motorists actually do stop at reds,
> > > based on my observation.
> >
> > It must depend on where you're at. Check out the Sylvan exit
> sometime.
> > It's amazing.
>
> John, even cyclists need to obey the laws.
Who said they didn't? When did that become the issue?
>
> But, there are many drivers and riders who do not stop at red lights,
> rarely stop at stop signs, and perform numerous other unsafe acts while
> in control of their modus vecturae. It's amazing so many of those
> operators are still alive.
Yep.
Chris Gattman
> > Or, just go to http://www.jammagazine.com
>
> There I was gettin' all excited thinking I was going to experience the
> delight of fruit preserves when my eyeballs were accosted by the sight of
> some website especially tailored for green haired
> nose-and-everything-you-can-imagine-pierced rapskallions punkers.
Hardly. Personally, I think they ought to allow GreenDay-wannabe hunting
season to thin the population a bit. Reduce the spread of diseases,
starvation, distemper and that sort of thing.
If you think THEY'RE everything-you-can-imagine-pierced, you ain't seen
nothing yet. The new issue that hits the street today features a perfecty
intelligent businesswoman voluntarily suspended from her knees by shark
hooks.
It's not as graphic as it sounds. It's not as...
...okay, I don't get it either. :>
There is a LOT of incredible music in Portland and obviously not just in
rock 'n' roll. Go check out Carmina Piranha or go see Lea Krueger tonight
at Mt. Tabor. Acoustic fem-pop, but her voice and her playing is diamond.
The editorial this week is going to get me into some trouble. It's about
rioters and I don't think the Green Day types are going to like what I
have to say.
> I had a look at the site though - and you are right, we did have a really
> cold period. It was so cold the other day I think I accidentally snapped my
> nipple off.
That's okay. I hear that's actually a sport over in the Hawthorne
district. (joke...'cause nowadays you never know.)
Chris Gattman
> > There I was gettin' all excited thinking I was going to experience the
> > delight of fruit preserves when my eyeballs were accosted by the sight of
> > some website especially tailored for green haired
> > nose-and-everything-you-can-imagine-pierced rapskallions punkers.
> >
> ROFL... Yeah, Chris, how about a reveiw of smuckers latest strawberry
> preserves?
Next month I'm thinking of doing a full marmalade spread. (Geddit?
Marmalade...spread...nyuk nyuk nyuk)
Dave Thompson
"Chris Gattman" <ga...@teleport.com> wrote in message
news:Pine.GSO.4.10.101010...@user2.teleport.com...
> On Tue, 9 Jan 2001, Igor II wrote:
>
> If you think THEY'RE everything-you-can-imagine-pierced, you ain't seen
> nothing yet. The new issue that hits the street today features a perfecty
> intelligent businesswoman voluntarily suspended from her knees by shark
> hooks.
A friend of mine who does erotic art back in Phoenix regularly does shows at
the annual S&M art show held in a downtown warehouse. He's seen people who
come to the show with their lips sewn shut just for the evening
(accessorizing?), a guy with a metal plate placed under his scalp so he can
place metal spikes in his head like a mohawk, and people who pierce their
breast and hang from the ceiling using hooks inserted through the holes.
One of his co-artists is a man who has taken his 6'8" amazon wife and burned
tiger stripes in her flesh with a red hot branding iron.
And my mom said I would turn out fucked up because I hung out with
"hippies".
> That's okay. I hear that's actually a sport over in the Hawthorne
> district. (joke...'cause nowadays you never know.)
There ARE people who cut off... or bite off, their nipples.
To think that I cringe at thought of zipping up on myself.
Chris Gattman
> > If you think THEY'RE everything-you-can-imagine-pierced, you ain't seen
> > nothing yet. The new issue that hits the street today features a perfecty
> > intelligent businesswoman voluntarily suspended from her knees by shark
> > hooks.
>
> A friend of mine who does erotic art back in Phoenix regularly does shows at
> the annual S&M art show held in a downtown warehouse. He's seen people who
> come to the show with their lips sewn shut just for the evening
> (accessorizing?), a guy with a metal plate placed under his scalp so he can
> place metal spikes in his head like a mohawk, and people who pierce their
> breast and hang from the ceiling using hooks inserted through the holes.
Yeah. Few of those people allow drugs or alcohol in their circles,
(weirdness and excessive bleeding) which means they do it SOBER.
The weirdest one I've seen yet was at the Roseland in downtown. All that
was visible onstage were a couple of people in surgeons clothes operating
on people behind a vertical piece of cloth.
When they were done, about 30 minutes into the thing, two people stood up.
They had porcelain masks of Bill and Hillary Clinton stitched to their
face and they were wearing suits and throwing fake money at the crowd
(which, a the stitches started to bleed, rapidy begain to cycle as the
squeaming streamed to the back.)
Immediately afterward, they brought out a fully nude woman with a gas mask
sewn to her face and hooks in her skin, and they used a block and tackle
system to move her around like a puppet...
I really don't know why. We went upstairs to watch the band.
Later, all three of them were walking around in the crowd. Their masks
had been removed but they were wearing the suits, and gasmask girl was
running around too. (you could tell by the iodine or whatever that yellow
dinfectant stuff is, which was still visible around her hairline, along
with the piercing holes.)
A couple of weeks ago one of our reporters and photographers went to a
private demonstration of body suspension and the guy did the entire
interview and photo shoot while he was suspended by eight shark hooks
through his back.
'Course, he eats well, doesn't use drugs, gets tested for Hep and HIV
every six months, he's physically fit, nonsedentary and owns a house, so
who am I to judge? I do worse things to my system every time I stuff
coins into the breakroom vending machines.
> One of his co-artists is a man who has taken his 6'8" amazon wife and burned
> tiger stripes in her flesh with a red hot branding iron.
Doesn't surprise me. Doesn't do much for me either, I suppose.
> To think that I cringe at thought of zipping up on myself.
Hey, no need to bring up THAT imagery, thank you! :>
Dave Thompson
"Chris Gattman" <ga...@teleport.com> wrote in message
news:Pine.GSO.4.10.101010...@user2.teleport.com...
> 'Course, he eats well, doesn't use drugs, gets tested for Hep and HIV
> every six months, he's physically fit, nonsedentary and owns a house, so
> who am I to judge? I do worse things to my system every time I stuff
> coins into the breakroom vending machines.
Just goes to show everyone has their own drug, their own religion, and their
own kink.
And, of course, everyone loves their own and thinks the others are sick.
John
___>^..^<___
"Ben L." <ne...@langN0SPAMlotz.com> wrote in message
news:3a67431f...@news.potlnd1.or.home.com...
> "John Judy" <mega...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Ben, you are amusing, but in this instance, you're absolutely,
> >demonstratively, wrong. If you can spend an hour or so driving through
> >beaverhell and still say "the motorists actually do stop at reds", you're
a
> >liar or delusional.
>
> What fraction of incidents when motorists encounter red lights do you
> allege they do not obey? I observe that well over 99% obey, probably
> over 99.9%.
>
And if you're talking about a road with say 25,000 vehicles per day - that
0.1% is 25 - each day.
staff_reporter
literally why don't we. Maybe I need to spell it out like Chrissy has
to....(joke)....and thanks for clearing it up Chrissy coz I was
squinting big-time.
SR
John Judy
"John" <jk...@dps.org> wrote in message
news:qUR66.3269$24.7...@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com...
Thus proving my point. Thanks.
John Judy
"Ben L." <ne...@langN0SPAMlotz.com> wrote in message
> "John Judy" <mega...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> And if you're talking about a road with say 25,000 vehicles per day -
that
> >> 0.1% is 25 - each day.
> >>
> >
> >Thus proving my point. Thanks.
>
> "If you can spend an hour or so driving through
> beaverhell and still say "the motorists actually do stop at reds",
> you're a liar or delusional."
>
> while driving in Beaverton (required in order to spot a single red
> light runner?)
>
> And even if I did, how does seeing 999 people obey red lights
> inconsistent with "that motorists actually do stop at reds."?
>
> Reality check.
You should have said MOST motorists stop at reds. Which they do. BTW, you
need not observe 1000 cars to see a red light run. Go to the corner of
Beaverton Hillsdale and Scholls Ferry (for example, there are others) in the
morning (or most any time of the day) and observe one or two light cycles.
Igor II
most motorists are responsible (not always competent, but responsible). A
small percentage of *both* parties disregards the rules.
These things always turn into cycclists vs. motorists, and it tends to cloud
the real issues.
John
___>^..^<___
"Ben L." <ne...@langN0SPAMlotz.com> wrote in message
news:3a6483fb....@news.potlnd1.or.home.com...
> "John" <jk...@dps.org> wrote:
>
> >And if you're talking about a road with say 25,000 vehicles per day -
that
> >0.1% is 25 - each day.
>
> No such road exists with a traffic signal in this area, or probably
> anywhere else.
I agree that the volumes are likely higher - 25,000/day is only 1000 per
hour, on a 4-lane street that's only 250 per lane per hour - not at all a
difficult traffic volume to achive.
>
> A false premise can not be used to disprove a theory, I'm afraid.
>
> (ODOT has traffic volumes online)
>
Go right ahead and provide us a link to the relevant numbers.
Igor II
> with no way to identify a wrongdoer. (And violate the laws much more
> frequently, in my observation, as do pedestrians, including my self.)
You bring up some interesting points. I know in some countries it is
important to purchase "cycling insurance" in much the same way we do here
for motorised vehicles, and I think it's a terrific idea, as is some kind of
registration which would aid identification in the case of an
accident/incident.
On the other side of the coin, this may be interpreted as a reprehensible
action preventing those who cannot afford such obligations from their only
form of transport. I suppose if it was cheap enough virtually everyone
could afford it.
But as for paying road tax, I don't think this is necessary, because the
amount of road wear a bicycle causes must be virtually none.
John
___>^..^<___
"Ben L." <ne...@langN0SPAMlotz.com> wrote in message
news:3a77ec71...@news.potlnd1.or.home.com...
> "Igor II" <nom...@thanks.com> wrote:
>
> >On the other side of the coin, this may be interpreted as a reprehensible
> >action preventing those who cannot afford such obligations from their
only
> >form of transport. I suppose if it was cheap enough virtually everyone
> >could afford it.
>
> Following the rules, and displaying a license plate doesn't harm the
> poor, only the irresponsible.
>
> >But as for paying road tax, I don't think this is necessary, because the
> >amount of road wear a bicycle causes must be virtually none.
>
> When they close vehicle lanes to make (rarely used) bike lanes, bikes
> are responsible for a significant cost. When bikes can't keep up with
> traffic, and thus increase congestion, they exact a further cost.
>
Your logic is entirely sloppy. If there's bike lanes, it doesn't matter if
the bikes can't keep up with traffic -- there IS NO further cost.
John
___>^..^<___
"Ben L." <ne...@langN0SPAMlotz.com> wrote in message
news:3a78ece9...@news.potlnd1.or.home.com...
> "John" <jk...@dps.org> wrote:
>
> >I agree that the volumes are likely higher - 25,000/day is only 1000 per
> >hour, on a 4-lane street that's only 250 per lane per hour - not at all a
> >difficult traffic volume to achive.
>
> You forget that most people sleep at night.
The capacity of a lane is more than 2000 per hour. 25,000/day is a tenth of
that.
>
> Try checking out some real ODOT traffic numbers.
>
You might try that yourself.
John Judy
"Ben L." <ne...@langN0SPAMlotz.com> wrote in message
> "John Judy" <mega...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> John, even cyclists need to obey the laws.
> >
> >Who said they didn't?
>
Which is wrong, because many do.
>
> When was the last time you saw a bicyclist make a legal stop at a stop
> sign that wasn't required for his own safety?
Yesterday.
John Judy
Well said.
>
>
58
"Igor II" <nom...@thanks.com> wrote:
> I don't think we can paint everyone with the same brush. Most
cyclists, and
I agree. Overall, most motorists and most cyclists are courteous.
There is a majority of drivers who have differing concepts of safe
driving distance, but that's for a different thread.
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