recumbent advice

[Terry]

My Chorus groupset is starting to fail so I'm thinking of buying a new
bike. I'm thinking of a recumbent, maybe a trike. I had no idea how
many are out there. I'm 6' tall - 200lbs (on a good day) and I want it
for touring and brevets. I'd be particularly interested in something
that can be built with a schmidt hub already. I also need to be able
to mount a rack bag or carradice bag. Comfort is paramount - weight is
not.

I know many of you have experience in this area. Any advice out there?

Thanks
Terry

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[Dana Lieberman]

Hi Terry,

Well, I sell recumbents for a living, so if you are in the Los Angeles area, perhaps you should come by the shop and check out a number of different bikes.  www.bentupcycles.com

In terms of trikes and SON hubs, the only trikes that are currently able to take a SON hub are the Greenspeeds and HP Velotechnik trikes.  They use proprietary hubs designed by SON for each respective manufacturer and are not interchangeable with other SON hubs.  However, they work exactly like a traditional SON hub in terms of efficiency, drag, etc.

If you go with a 2-wheeler, we can put a SON on anything.

Rear racks are easily available for all makes and models of recumbents.  There are also a variety of seat bags - prime real estate exists behind the seat and in many cases, these bags are just as usable as a trunk rack.

Anyway...I could go on and on...come on by the shop and/or give me a call sometime and I would be more than happy to help you set up the perfect bike!

Take care,
Dana

--
Dana Lieberman, Owner
Bent Up Cycles
7828 Balboa Blvd.
Van Nuys, CA  91406
www.bentupcycles.com

[Greg]

Terry,

I bought my first recumbent a few months ago. I got it used because I
didn't want to drop a load of money on a setup that I hadn't tested.

My advice for anyone looking at recumbents can be boiled down to this:
it's all about the seat. If the seat isn't comfortable, you won't ride
it. The seat I have (I learned after buying the bike) was made for
riders who sit fairly upright. When I lean back it becomes
uncomfortable and I can't ride for very long. Go to Bentup Cycles and
sit in all the different seats you can try, and sit in them at the
angle that you think you'll be riding in while you're on a brevet.
Once you get something you feel comfortable in, all the rest will fall
into place. You can go to
http://www.terracycle.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc and get all kinds of
pannier bags and stuff for touring. But none of it will do you any
good if you don't like being on the bike.

For whatever it's worth I bought a Rans Force 5 with a Zephyr seat,
and am looking to replace it with a Bacchetta Euromesh seat. The
former has an aluminum tube outer frame with a mesh backing, which
creates pressure points against the back. The latter is a tray, with a
foam layer, which lacks those pressure points.

Greg

[Terry]

Thanks for posting a response, Dana. I see your store is almost on the
way from my house to Moorpark. How convenient.
I will definately drop in on the way to the next brevet if not sooner.
By the way, Google maps has no clue where your store is - both options
it offers are off by at least half a mile :-( Fortunately I did manage
to find it.

I'm looking closely at the Greenspeed GT3 - how much extra is the SON
if it's built in from the start rather than added later? (just
ballpark - nearest $100 would be fine).
Another question, how much does it cost to replace that freakishly
long chain? It must be 10 feet long :-)
OK, one more question (for now). Can they be carried on Amtrak? I
doubt they'll fit their standard bike box.

Thanks again
Terry

On May 2, 9:05 pm, Greg <greg.olmst...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Terry,
>
> I bought my first recumbent a few months ago. I got it used because I
> didn't want to drop a load of money on a setup that I hadn't tested.
>
> My advice for anyone looking at recumbents can be boiled down to this:
> it's all about the seat. If the seat isn't comfortable, you won't ride
> it. The seat I have (I learned after buying the bike) was made for
> riders who sit fairly upright. When I lean back it becomes
> uncomfortable and I can't ride for very long. Go to Bentup Cycles and
> sit in all the different seats you can try, and sit in them at the
> angle that you think you'll be riding in while you're on a brevet.
> Once you get something you feel comfortable in, all the rest will fall

> into place. You can go tohttp://www.terracycle.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvcand get all kinds of

> For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/pch-randos?hl=en.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Willie]

Any good recumbent will give you vastly improved comfort over any
upright. It took me a year to really figure this out, but once I rode
over 200 miles in one day just out of the blue, I finally realized the
power of a good bent (In my case a Bacchetta Corsa with Euromesh
seat). Yes, Dana can show you a huge range of price and performance,
so you can pick an choose. There are many good used ones out there
too, but make sure you understand what you are buying and that it will
fit you and hold up to weight. The modern bents are much lighter,
stronger and more comfortable than most of the older ones, so do spend
time looking at new ones first.

And once you get lured into "the dark side of the force", Dana can fix
you up with the very best, either his Carbents, CA2.0 or other top end
carbon European ones. These are dream machines that will take you
places you never dreamed possible. My Carbent has taken me from
occasionally doing a century ride, to doubles, to over 8000 miles a
year, and now to RAAM.

Willie

On May 2, 7:01 pm, Terry <terryhutt1...@hotmail.com> wrote:

[Ron Smith]

There is no way I'd recommend a trike. They are too wide. You don't fit in with other riders, or on shoulders, or with traffic. Plus you are down low, whether you like it or not. A regular recumbent fits in all the places an upright bike does.

Any easy model to get started with is the Bacchetta Giro 20. It has a 20" front wheel, and a 26" rear. The fastest setup will be to go straight to a dual 26", 650c or 700c bike, but that also has the biggest learning curve. A good dual wheeled bike is the Bacchetta Giro 26, Strada or Corsa. Yes, I like Bacchetta. ;-)

Get the Euromesh seat, no question. The Recurve is for people who want to sit upright.

Buy from Dana. He took care of me for my Corsa (650c), and again for the Carbon Aero 2.0 (700c) I am riding now. Speaking of which, I did the Clambake 1000k. No padding in my shorts, no butt lube, no worries. When I got off the bike I had no bike related complaints at all. Not only that, but I really enjoyed riding my bike the entire time. Well, just about.

These bikes use just shy of 2.5 chains, or about 11 feet. :-)

A regular recumbent can fit on the Amtrak bike racks (or so I am told). The problem is that their rules say you have to box them. It depends on who is running the station as to whether they will allow the bike to be put into the racks.

Ron

[Jim Verheul]

I am with Ron on everything. He and I ride the same bikes for brevets! You give up a lot of speed on a trike. If you were ever worried about making time cutoffs, you'd need to be more worried.

As far as Amtrak:

Look at their standard luggage policy to see if you can bring your own box and how big for the trains with baggage cars. For the interesting case, trains without baggage cars but with hooks like the Surfliner. Read this:

http://www.bentrideronline.com/messageboard/showthread.php?t=56099&highlight=amtrak

It looks like a up to a 47" wheelbase Bacchetta can work, but you want a front rim and tire of just the right depth to make it work. You want them as deep as possible and still fitting under the hook. I bet you can bend that hook in a pinch too. Bills concern about crank location is less of a issue. If you had to you could put the wheel up first, then install the bike on it. Volae, Rans and Dana's own Carbent will also work if these conditions are met. Other SWB bents might work too. Perhaps a very short trike could be held by the rear wheel, if both adjacent hooks were open too. There are also a few folding bents out there too. You are more likely to fit with smaller wheels (650c or less). I cannot think of a dual 700c that would make it. Maybe a Cruzbike or Metaphysic? Dana, Ron?

This thread reminds me why I need to hang on to my 650c Bacchetta Corsa and 26" Hed Jet wheels ,and go measure some hooks at the train station.

Cheers,
JV

[Terry]

Thanks Ron that was a concern I had.
Quick question - long or short wheelbase. I suspect I ride enough that
I'll get used to either one quickly. In the long run - which is better
for touring/brevets? Giro or Bella?
Jim - good point - I'm always worried about making controls in time.
Terry
P.S. Grats on the 1000k - looks like you all had a great ride unless
you are Canadian :-(

> >> into place. You can go tohttp://www.terracycle.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvcandget all kinds of

> >> For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/pch-randos?hl=en.-Hide quoted text -

[Willie]

Since you are worried about making controls in time, then don't saddle
yourself with excessive extra weight or poor aerodynamics. Long
wheelbase bents are heavier (almost without exception) and they are
less aero (unless fared, but that makes them a lot heavier). And
since I must assume you are doing randos in CA where climbing is a
given (not Florida), a bunch of extra weight is brutal on hills. As
such I would highly recommend a short wheel base bikes, which come in
either high-racer or low racer styles. The low racers really do have
issue in traffic, because you are very low to the ground. Inspecting
the exhaust system of an SUV from laying in the comfort of your bent
seat it's not really where you want to be! :) So, I would steer you
straight to a high-racer, which seats you even with drivers in normal
sedans. It’s not nearly as high as an upright, but high enough to see
in traffic.


High-racers come in a wide range of cost / performance versions. The
Giro 26 ATT is bomber starting point with 26x1.25 inch tires, MTB disc
brakes, and the Euromesh Seat. From the Giro you can move up to the
Corsa which similar to the Giro but comes with 650 wheels and other
improvements that make it lighter including an optional carbon seat.
From there you move up the Carbon Aero 2.0, which is a carbon version
of the Corsa and much better components. From there you move to a
Carbent, which is Dana’s business Carbent HPV, and pretty much the
skies the limit, and once trained on it, you will be much faster solo
than on an upright. Also, any of these bents can be had in 700
wheels, and since you are 6 foot tall, you would likely prefer the
bigger wheels once you get use to the high-racer bike.


I bought a Corsa for my first bent (Jan 08), used it for commuting and
converted from the flat prone 650x23mm to the 26x1.25, so I now have
basically a Giro 26 ATT with better components. I’ve done many
centuries and one double on this bike and it’s great. I would have
over 10,000 miles on it now, but early this year I’ve been commuting
on my Carbent because I’m training for RAAM, and that’s my primary
RAAM bike. But I’ve also had so many flats on my Carbent because my
commute route kills tubes, whereas I had gone 5000 miles between flats
with the 26x1.25 inch on the same nasty’s.


But if you try out a high racer and can ride it even somewhat to begin
with, you will find in a short time that it grows on you, and you and
the bike become one. They do have a few quirky issues, but there are
techniques to overcome all the riding problems you may first
encounter, and us “bent heads” will be happy to steer you in the right
direction.


Willie

On May 3, 3:23 pm, Terry <terryhutt1...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks Ron that was a concern I had.
> Quick question - long or short wheelbase. I suspect I ride enough that
> I'll get used to either one quickly. In the long run - which is better
> for touring/brevets? Giro or Bella?
> Jim - good point - I'm always worried about making controls in time.
> Terry
> P.S. Grats on the 1000k - looks like you all had a great ride unless
> you are Canadian :-(
>

[Ron Smith]

This is good advice. Short wheel based bikes are the way to go. The Giro 20 ATT is a good choice for a lower bottom bracket, and a Giro 26 ATT is a good choice if you are ok with the higher learning curve. There is no way I'd recommend a low racer.

Tires are important. It is hard to find good performing 26" tires. On the other hand, 650c tires are be default skinny, high pressure and are good performers, but might not be robust enough, depending on your riding conditions. Going 700c fixes both problems because of the range of tires available.

On my 700c Carbon Aero 2.0 I had been running 700x23 Gatorskins. They felt good, and gave fairly good flat protection, except when it got really nasty in the rain. For a while I switched to the 700x23 Armadillo Elite. Those have the flat protection under the tread, but not the sidewall. They rolled a lot better than the regular Armadillo, which has flat protection bead to bead. But then I got tired of the firm ride, and for the 1000k I switched to a Gatorskin 700x25 in front, and a Gatorskin 700x28 in the rear. Really, really good ride. The bike just rolled. No problems on the rougher pavement. I think this will become my default setup for commutes and brevets.

For lighting I am using a SON28, with a Supernova E3 (the 200 lumen model), and a DIY light that puts out ~400 lumens. Great setup. I bought the SON28 in late 2008, when I got tired of dealing with batteries. However, with the new LEDs these days, in particular the Magicshine 900, you can get a lot of light for little cost and weight. On the 1000k a rider got a conservative 12 hours out of the battery, running on low. That's impressive for a $90 light.

Thinking about a recommendation: a Bacchetta Giro 26 ATT with 700c wheels (they fit the frame), a carbon fork, regular brakes instead of disc, a Euromesh seat, a stiffie riser (instead of the flex stem), and bar end shifters would make for a great all around bike.

Hopefully the non-recumbent crowd can find some use out of this thread. :-)

Thanks for the congrats. It will quite a ride. Day three wasn't as easy as it appeared on paper.

Ron

[SloVic]

Hi Terry,
I don't know you, but I always rode a nice trek 5200 road bike that
was a bit upgraded. I loved that bike. I had an accident the day
after Christmas, and shattered the radius bone in my arm. Two
surgeries later, it's pretty functional, but it doesn't bend or have
the cartilage necessary to ride for hour after hour on a road bike.
So, it was quit riding (not an option), or get a recumbent. Having
ridden with several of the folks who have replied on your thread,
including a couple of brevets with Dana, I got in touch with him.

Now I have my own Bacchetta Corsa, fitted out to make me happy. It is
quite an adjustment to learn to ride this high racer. It's really
weird when you start out, lots to relearn, feels very alien. IIt's
getting better quickly, and I am now finding some positives -- fast
and much better into the wind, stable down hills. I have ridden about
200 miles on it to date. I hope to ride the Big Bear 200K in a couple
weeks, so I can get back to my goal for the year - qualify for PBP.
Maybe it'll be a pipe dream, or maybe I'll make it. Who knows. In
any case, I wouldn't be on the road if it wasn't for Dana and the
bent. As it turns out, everyone I know up here in San Luis Obispo who
rides recumbents got them from Dana, too. I just never paid attention
before.
Vickie