Striping on Ludlow

[Maya Lena]

Hi all, I was just biking on Ludlow and there is this dotted line striping on both sides of the street. This photo is looking West. The striping ends at Wayside Street (the boundary to Nason’s Corner). It extends to the East but I’m not sure how far as I didn’t bike that way. 

I also just got a text from a neighbor asking what this is about. It’s confusing!

Does anyone know what this is about?

Maya

[Maya Lena]

Here is the photo my neighbor sent me (looking East)

[Derek Pelletier]

Since Ludlow is designated as one of the Neighborhood Byways (but is probably the busiest of the streets with that designation), I'm guessing it's to do with the City refreshing all of their neighborhood byway street paintings. The idea behind the byways was that they'd be similar to Bike Boulevards in other towns - routes that cyclists can use to get from point A to B that are not on streets with high automobile traffic. In other places, bicycles are almost the "preferred" mode of transportation in the infrastructure was updated accordingly. Portland didn't go that far when they rolled out their byways but on most other streets in the network, the "Bike Blvd" stencils are used to indicate that people should expect to see bikes in the middle of the lane. Maybe they're thinking that b.c Ludlow is busier, they'd indicate that with these soft bike lane markings.

On Tue, Aug 16, 2022 at 5:15 PM Maya Lena <maya....@gmail.com> wrote:

Here is the photo my neighbor sent me (looking East)

On Tue, Aug 16, 2022 at 5:13 PM Maya Lena <maya....@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi all, I was just biking on Ludlow and there is this dotted line striping on both sides of the street. This photo is looking West. The striping ends at Wayside Street (the boundary to Nason’s Corner). It extends to the East but I’m not sure how far as I didn’t bike that way. 

I also just got a text from a neighbor asking what this is about. It’s confusing!

Does anyone know what this is about?

Maya

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[Maya Lena]

The lanes are pretty narrow (close to the curb). They don’t feel like adequate bike lanes. I felt much more inclined to ride in the road than against the curb. 

I fear this will create dangerous situations for bikes. 

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[Derek Pelletier]

Totally agree with you, Maya! I don’t know if my guess is correct but either way these new markings look like a bad idea.

Sent from my phone

On Aug 16, 2022, at 5:44 PM, Maya Lena <maya....@gmail.com> wrote:



The lanes are pretty narrow (close to the curb). They don’t feel like adequate bike lanes. I felt much more inclined to ride in the road than against the curb. 

I fear this will create dangerous situations for bikes. 

On Tue, Aug 16, 2022 at 5:30 PM Derek Pelletier <dpe...@gmail.com> wrote:

Since Ludlow is designated as one of the Neighborhood Byways (but is probably the busiest of the streets with that designation), I'm guessing it's to do with the City refreshing all of their neighborhood byway street paintings. The idea behind the byways was that they'd be similar to Bike Boulevards in other towns - routes that cyclists can use to get from point A to B that are not on streets with high automobile traffic. In other places, bicycles are almost the "preferred" mode of transportation in the infrastructure was updated accordingly. Portland didn't go that far when they rolled out their byways but on most other streets in the network, the "Bike Blvd" stencils are used to indicate that people should expect to see bikes in the middle of the lane. Maybe they're thinking that b.c Ludlow is busier, they'd indicate that with these soft bike lane markings.

On Tue, Aug 16, 2022 at 5:15 PM Maya Lena <maya....@gmail.com> wrote:

Here is the photo my neighbor sent me (looking East)

On Tue, Aug 16, 2022 at 5:13 PM Maya Lena <maya....@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi all, I was just biking on Ludlow and there is this dotted line striping on both sides of the street. This photo is looking West. The striping ends at Wayside Street (the boundary to Nason’s Corner). It extends to the East but I’m not sure how far as I didn’t bike that way. 

I also just got a text from a neighbor asking what this is about. It’s confusing!

Does anyone know what this is about?

Maya

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[Scsmedia]

This website has has a description of the purpose of the stripping at the Eastern Road Pilot Project Survey link. Every other place I have seen this stripping has signage explaining its use. Without the signage, these are pretty useless. 

https://www.scarboroughmaine.org/departments/planning-codes/planning/complete-streets

Steven Scharf

207-415-4662

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[thomas nosal]

They are called advisory bike lanes and have been used successfully in many other places, in Maine and beyond. They're used when the street is too narrow for two travel lanes and bike lanes. The idea is to reinforce the fact that drivers must yield to those biking and to each other when passing. I agree with Steven that the signage is helpful, particularly where they have not been used extensively. I imagine that's still forthcoming. 

Michael Williams, probably the foremost expert on ABL's in the US, has compiled a helpful website: 

https://www.advisorybikelanes.com/

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[Maya Lena]

Thank you, Tom. This is helpful. I hope signage is forthcoming!

Maya

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[Christian MilNeil]

As it happens, the other Portland is trying these out as well this summer:

https://bikeportland.org/2022/08/12/drivers-are-figuring-out-portlands-new-advisory-bike-lanes-video-361480

I've been on these lanes on the Eastern Road both in a bike and as a car driver, and from what I've observed, they work pretty well! Eastern Road doesn't have sidewalks but does get a fair amount of foot traffic, so they're effectively bike/walk lanes there. One of the benefits is that they make the roadway appear to be narrower, which seems to help slow down traffic.

Christian MilNeil
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On Tue, Aug 16, 2022 at 8:59 PM thomas nosal <thomas...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[Maya Lena]

Thanks, Christian. This is also helpful. I do wish there would be some direct educational communication about this from the city because I (someone who drives, bikes and walks on Ludlow) was totally confused by the paint lines, and am also getting questions from neighbors. 

In my experience, making these types of changes  without communicating creates anger and frustration which in itself is not helpful for bike/Ped safety. 

Maya

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[William Chabot]

This is the sign on Chestnut St in South Portland

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[Bridget Huber]

Hi Maya: I was on Ludlow this a.m. and striping only goes as far as the intersection with Jeanne St. and Fuller (for now, at least.) I wonder if they plan to continue it all the way to Stevens. I agree that some sort of sign or education would be nice, hopefully that's in the works.

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[Jim Tasse]

Hi Maya et al: 

As a couple of folks have noted, these are "advisory lanes", aka "dashed bike lanes" aka "advisory shoulders" aka "edge lanes."  

BCM has been involved with installing them in about ten communities around Maine, (including the ones on Eastern Road--that was our first project--and Chestnut in SoPo, and several in Yarmouth and North Yarmouth, Gray, Camden, etc.)  Advisory lanes provide traffic calming and a flexible re-allocation of excess pavement. Ludlow is a great street for them, but I wasn't in the loop on this installation. They are considered an experimental treatment by FHWA, but they are in the Rural Design Guide.  

Tom Nosal provided the link to Michael Williams site dedicated to the facilities--he calls them "edge lane roads," which he feels is more descriptive. 

Ideal layout in Maine seems to be a 5-6 foot edge lane, with 12-16 feet center lane. Williams advocates a narrower center lane to provide more effective traffic calming and to create more space for bikes. 

Data on the facilities in Maine indicate that they can actually reduce crashes (that's the story on Eastern Road). Many Maine communities use them as combined bike/ped facilities, as is the case on Eastern Road, Chestnut, etc. The sign is one we developed based on a project that was installed in Hanover NH. As a combined facility, they provide a way to accommodate vulnerable users on roads where something is needed but ROW or other considerations ($$) prohibit sidewalks etc. I presented at the 2021 Walk Bike Place conference on using advisory lanes for bike AND ped accommodation. 

I agree that more communication might have been helpful, but really, the striping should be enough. It is dashed to indicate that the line can be crossed so that cars can make room for each other (solid lines are not supposed to be crossed). They basically make Ludlow into a smaller feeling roadway without a center line, which should encourage drivers to slow down. 

Happy to answer questions on this type of facility--nice job Portland! 

Director, Maine Bicycle and Pedestrian Safety Education Program

Past President, Greater Portland Chapter, New England Mountain Bike Association

Support better walking and biking in Maine, donate today!

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[George Rheault]

Honestly, the sign is not that helpful absent further explanation (especially if a driver is whizzing past it and unfamiliar with any of the discussion/history behind it).

Since this is a very recent innovation, I assume virtually no drivers out there ever had this covered in their driver education courses [SIDE NOTe: why the hell don't we make drivers do refresher courses every 3-5 years especially when license renewals come due?  OH yeah, because the drivers would ABSOLUTELY FREAK OUT AT THE INCONVENIENCE AND HAVE A MELTDOWN like they did with redlight/speed cameras and our politicians would come running to their defense in the most craven ways possible]

I don't know if BCM has ever done it, but stationing some volunteers in some strategic places where this stuff is being deployed to do some education would go a long way towards helping raise driver awareness about what is going on here.  Identifying some good times to do that (with volunteers doing one hour shifts) and give volunteers safety vests, maybe a tent, some highly visible signage and a brochure/pamphlet handout of some kind as a takeaway would do wonders to help neighbors and drivers understand what they are supposed to do with these markings and why everyone should be on-board with it.  I am sure it would be an interesting community-building exercise as well, especially understanding why kind of feedback is generated (both positive and potentially hostile).  City DPW and Portland Police could help arrange this including setting up a safe checkpoint where drivers have to effectively slow down in the travel journey and engage with volunteers instead of blowing them off at will.

While not necessarily true "tactical urbanism," it is effectively just that: an opportunity to engage drivers in their natural habitat while emphasizing bike/ped safety initiatives and deeply needed education.   

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[Maya Lena]

I emailed Jeremiah Bartlett directly to ask him to help me understand the project. I will paste the text of his email below. I am adding some highlighting for some points specific to this project. I responded to his email to clarify that the sharrows will be placed in the CENTER lane, as opposed to bike lane icons in the shoulders and he confirmed YES, the sharrows will be in the center of the roadway so as not to force cyclists to the edges.

-----------

Hi Maya,

Thanks for checking in.  We've been working on some outcomes for Ludlow based on input from residents over the past year or so.

The goal here is to provide what is called an advisory (or sometimes, "edge") treatment which is being done in a number of communities in the area, including Scarborough, North Yarmouth, and Yarmouth.  Portland has been a bit behind on their implementation.  The intent is to narrow the perceived width of the roadway to address complaints about vehicle behavior.  The south side of the street will be posted No Parking, and a cyclists can elect to ride either outside the dashed markings or use the center of the street.

This decision was arrived at, in part, due to the fact that despite the speed and crash frequency of the roadway not satisfying criteria for physical traffic calming devices, the level of resident concern was high.  After some research, and check-ins with Michael Williams, the deviser of this design, and Dr. Peter Furth of Northeastern University, another transportation expert with great familiarity of this treatment, it seemed like the best way to place additional striping and make a difference on the street.

To that point: I'm not sure if you are aware, but Ludlow Street is part of the City's Neighborhood Byway, but the pavement marking guidance is not really there.  As such, Traffic Operations will be placing sharrows (i.e. shared lane markings for bikes) in the roadway as well, and additional signage is forthcoming.  

As this treatment is only paint, however, we are treating it as a test case and will be collecting additional speed and crash data.  If it makes a difference, we will make it permanent and extend the treatment along more of Ludlow to the west.  If not, we will likely adjust and/or remove the striping.

Here's more information on the City's Bikeways:

https://www.portlandmaine.gov/699/Bicycle-Pedestrian-Planning

I hope you find this information helpful.

Thank you,

Jeremiah

Jeremiah J. Bartlett, PE, PTOE

Transportation Systems Engineer

Department of Public Works

212 Canco Road, Suite B

Portland, Maine 04103

jbar...@portlandmaine.gov

(207) 874-8891

He/Him/They

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[Maya Lena]

A neighbor just sent this to me.  It’s a sign on Ludlow. This doesn’t make sense to me based on Jeremiah’s description that the center lane is meant to be a shared lane. I’m wondering what others think?

[Scsmedia]

The idea is that there is one lane shared in both directions and the cars are suppose to go into the bike lane only to pass other cars.  It is a terrible graphic.  This sign makes it appear that two cars can fit in the one lane which defeats the point of the facility.  They should have used the one used in Scarborough which properly describe the use.  

Steven Scharf

https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/PBPAC/CAB1EHnsGOy0CdNQEvVDJX7p0doKLv8NAX3ktMxaGEWBZ1n5bog%40mail.gmail.com

.

[Zack Barowitz]

I don't think this is  a bad striping pattern for this context (although I agree with Steven that the sign's graphic is poor), what makes it strange is the lack of a center line (denoting two-way traffic) while having two dashed bike lanes (which is also unusual); but given the width–and volume of traffic–the center line was neither practicable nor necessary so it was scraped in favor of bike lanes. Overall it is almost like a long, lineal, woonerf.

Zack

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[Maya Lena]

I don’t think the concept of the striping on Ludlow is inappropriate, but I do think it is very confusing for most motorists, even those of us who regularly bike on this road.  

My main concern is the lack of explanation coupled with this now confusing graphic is just not a great way to educate road users of what is supposed to happen here. 

Maya

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[Winston Lumpkins]

Hmm, it seems like that sign is pretty standard, for an Advisory bike Lanes/ Edge Lane Roads, except that the cars are really small, so it looks like they don't actually have to move over to pass.  Seems like that could be fixed with a pair of slightly larger car stickers? 

I'm generally in favor of this design pattern, as I think it sort of codifies what people do on narrow roads anyway (drive in the middle & yield to oncoming traffic) and can make things safer for pedestrians when there isn't a sidewalk. 

I'm delighted to see the no parking sign, as I am against using this design pattern with street parking, though, perhaps with a clear enough marked door zone I'm over reacting there.

According to the document in the website Thomas shared above, both shared lane markings & bike lane markings have been used, and there hasn't seemed to be much of a difference- shared lane markings are a little more rare, only 2 instances are reported, but soon to be 3 I suppose.  Due to the dashed line, both should be fine in my opinion, though if bicycles have already been mostly riding in the middle of Ludlow, the shared lane marking might indeed be better.  I don't think there's a sign design that really explains how the street could be used that reflects a shared lane marking, certainly there isn't in the document.

Perhaps a diagram with a cargo bike & car yeilding, with text saying "yield to bikes & pedestrians in edge lane"?  I can't picture a top down view of a bike or cargo bike which would be instantly recognizable though.

~Winston

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[Scsmedia]

The city needs to use EXCATLY what is on the sign that Scarborough is using from the website I posted previously.

Jeremiah, can you pass this on to Kevin Thomas to have his sign guy fix the sign?

For those that missed my original email, the document at this link is a very succinct description of these with the sign.

This website has has a description of the purpose of the stripping at the Eastern Road Pilot Project Survey link. Every other place I have seen this stripping has signage explaining its use. Without the signage, these are pretty useless. 

https://www.scarboroughmaine.org/departments/planning-codes/planning/complete-streets

Steven Scharf

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[Scsmedia]

Jeremiah

The sign you are actually using tells a different story then the Scarborough sign which matches other signs across the country.  The verbiage on the sign is telling people to "keep right" when the intent of the facility is to encourage vehicles to use the center of the road unless they need to yield to bikes or other vehicles.   The guidance you posted says share center lane.  That is the goal and it should be stated as such so that there is no confusion.

Steven Scharf

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeremiah Bartlett <jbar...@portlandmaine.gov>
To: Scsmedia <scsm...@aol.com>
Cc: PB...@googlegroups.com <PB...@googlegroups.com>; bhy...@portlandmaine.gov <bhy...@portlandmaine.gov>; Murray, Mike <m...@portlandmaine.gov>
Sent: Fri, Aug 19, 2022 11:43 am
Subject: Re: [PBPAC] Striping on Ludlow

Hi Steve,

Thank you for your input.  

The goal of this striping is to force as much roadway sharing as possible on Ludlow, hence the language.  The City elected to adhere as closely as possible to the guidance provided for these treatments; I can't speak to the specific design that Scarborough elected to undertake. Here is the direction our signage was based upon, with a removal of pedestrian references, due to the presence of a sidewalk:

The idea of sharing space between motorized and non-motorized modes is much more demanding of guidance and direction in our "traditional" hierarchically-focused transportation system, rather than keeping to the right, which is always a legal requirement in any public way.  

Thank you,

Jeremiah

Jeremiah J. Bartlett, PE, PTOE

Transportation Systems Engineer

Department of Public Works

212 Canco Road, Suite B

Portland, Maine 04103

jbar...@portlandmaine.gov

(207) 874-8891

He/Him/They

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[John Clark]

I decided to take a detour on my way home today and ride the section, as well as sit and watch traffic for 10 minutes or so. At the start of the section (coming from Stevens), drivers can't even see the sign that was placed there due to branches in the way. Obviously not something that will not be an issue long-term, but just thought it was a little strange that drivers can't see the explanation for the new traffic pattern as they approach. 

I didn't get a picture, but the bicycle stencils were painted in the center lane rather than the edge lanes. From my understanding, these should have been in the edge lanes? 

Just about every driver I observed was driving dead center over the dashed lines, with one tire in the center lane and one in the edge lane (this was when there wasn't a car going the other direction). I'm sure it will take time for drivers to get used to, but it clearly wasn't working as designed.

Side note: I wish the signage used "cars" or "motor vehicles" share center lane, instead of vehicles, since bikes are vehicles as well. Oh well.

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[Maya Lena]

My understanding is that the shoulders are NOT meant to be “bike lanes”.

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[Maya Lena]

Another confused neighbor. 

[John Brooking]

Thank you for your attention to the "vehicles" terminology, John. I agree! Unfortunately, part of the issue is that Maine law excludes bicycles in the legal definition of "vehicle", so the sign is technically accurate from both a legal and traffic engineering perspective. But I still don't like it.

I'm struggling to understand the point of shared lane markers in the center lane. I've never seen that done, and it's exactly the opposite of what the signage implies. No wonder people are confused. I am too. Stencils are meant to guide bicyclists, even shared lane markers, so where am I supposed to be? Schrodinger's Bicycle, both in the edge lane and in the center lane simultaneously?

I will make it a point to ride back to Westbrook on Ludlow after band practice next Tuesday evening.

John Brooking

Cyclist, Cycling Educator, Technologist

http://cyclingsavvy.org

On Fri, Aug 19, 2022 at 5:51 PM John Clark <jmcla...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[John Brooking]

> My understanding is that the shoulders are NOT meant to be “bike lanes”.

But the signs imply that they are.

John Brooking

Cyclist, Cycling Educator, Technologist

http://cyclingsavvy.org

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[John Clark]

Looks like the city must have realized the error in the bicycle stencils, they all have been covered over. The new ones in the edge lanes have not been installed yet, however.

[Maya Lena]

As a rider on Ludlow I don’t feel comfortable riding in the edge lanes especially as one is designated as parking and the other is very narrow and goes over storm drains.  

Do others have thoughts on this type of treatment using one of the edge lanes as parking and the other not being very safe for bikes?

Maya

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[John Brooking]

Honestly, I don’t see the point of this treatment on Ludlow at all. I never found bike travel there to be a problem. Bicyclists were free to choose their own position, and motorists generally had plenty of room to pass. Why micro-manage it, especially if it is complicated by other infrastructure like drain grates and (perceived) need for parking? What’s the return on the effort?

--

[George Rheault]

John - I would have to believe it is politics - much like the Park Avenue bike lane.

A stretched city, short-staffed, under the usual (and unusual) budget strains, and short-cutted at every turn by anti-growth sentiment, wants to show some incremental additions to bicycle "infrastructure" to prove THEY ARE AT LEAST DOING SOMETHING.  The politicians need to talk about something!

The problem with this "let us find some easy wins" approach is it pleases and appeases no one.  Those who have special knowledge (like many posters here) see it as a transparent attempt to win favor without really doing much to move the ball forward and those who are pro-car see it as a provocation that proves their point that this stuff is fluffy counterproductive nonsense.

All made worse, in this case anyway, when the implementation is poor and clumsy.

     

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[thomas nosal]

"What’s the return on the effort?"

According to a study from 2021, an expected 44% reduction in the crash rate for motor vehicles. Ludlow may not be Portland's highest priority in terms of crashes but it's a relatively low-cost treatment. I expect the City will learn from this installation and think there are additional locations where it could work well. I agree with Maya that allowing parking is not ideal but demand seems pretty low. 

On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 10:09 AM John Brooking <johnbr...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[John Brooking]

I’m not a statistician, so I’m not prepared to get into the weeds, but I wonder (1) how this road compares to the typical road examined by that study, and (2) if there is enough traffic and crashes on it to document a statistically significant crash reduction from this treatment.

[Winston Lumpkins]

This morning I rode over to Ludlow to check it out, which gives me a little more context. 

My understanding is that this treatment was chosen because it's relatively cheap, and residents along Ludlow have complained about people speeding.  This has been proven to reduce vehicle speed, even if just by confusing them. 

From what I could tell, parking is not allowed on either side of the section with the Edge Lane Road treatment, though, there may have been someone parked there illegally, but it was clear when I was there.  I would encourage those who ride through there regularly to report parking violations via c-click fix.  Certainly, there are no parking signs. 

If there is parking & an edge lane road, a 3 foot door zone marker with cross hatching should be present between the parking &  the edge lane.  This may be safer on low traffic streets than 2 travel lanes with bike lanes, as there might not be enough space for wide bike lanes & a 3 foot warning area. 

I found the outbound side to be just fine, with enough space to avoid storm drains.  I noticed that the inbound side looks narrower, so I broke out my tape measure.  The outbound lane is a nice 7 feet wide.  The Center lane is 16 feet wide.  The inbound lane is 5 feet wide.  

I would encourage anyone wishing to best understand best practices to read through the document found here: https://www.advisorybikelanes.com/design-guidance.html

The Author recomends using ELRs for lanes between 20 & 30 feet.  Ludlow is 28 feet wide.

In regards to width, pages 10 through 20 are relevant. 

The authors recomendations are:

"I recommend allocating a minimum of six to seven feet for each of the edge lanes and the remainder for the center travel lane to allow for a comfortable riding experience."

"If the center travel lane width exceeds 10 to 12 feet, consider widening the edge lanes to maintain the visual narrowness of the center travel lane. More frequent placement of bicycle or pedestrian symbols may be required on ELRs with wide edge lanes."

He's considerably concerned with ELRs with center lanes with lane widths between 12.5 & 15.8 feet, as they can apear wider than they are, thus causing cars to run into each other.  Many american instalations do use lanes between 12.5 & 15.8 feet however, and they are still safer & lead to lower vechile speeds than the alternatives. 

It seems like the best practice for ludlow would be 2 edge lanes 8  feet wide, with frequent bicycle markings, and a center lane 12 feet wide.

Since this is a pilot project, perhaps we should recommed that in future instalations, they follow that pattern. 

~Winston

On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 11:40 AM thomas nosal <thomas...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[Maya Lena]

I went for a ride on Ludlow yesterday and I’d just like to confirm that there are only “No Parking”

Signs on the southwest side of the street. The northeast side does NOT have any “no parking signs”. Parking in the edge lane on that side would not be a violation. 

[Winston Lumpkins]

Thanks for that clarification!  I should have taken a little more time to make sure- I'll confess that since I don't drive I'm probably not the best at identifying no parking zones/signs... 

I don't like under-utilized parking.  Let's say a "friend" of mine has run into multiple parked cars over the years, parked in legal parking spots that were usually empty...  Marking one out like it's a bike lane might be dangerous for people who don't always look where they're going/the distraction prone.

I wonder if it's used by any residents overnight? 

~Winston

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[John Brooking]

Not trying to victim blame here, but I really don't understand running into parked cars. Even before I had formal bicycling education that emphasized situational awareness, I have a hard time imagining just not seeing that coming from a long way off, right in front of you, at bike speed. At least in the daytime. Did your "friend"'s collisions happen at night? Parked cars are harder to see at night, particularly if you don't have a headlight.

There are places around town that have under-utilized parking lanes, some of them here in Westbrook, and one also on Brighton between Rosemont and Stevens, and I think they're great for bicyclists. They work well as a de-facto wide bike lane. The only challenge I have with them is if there are actually parked cars (or the occasional construction sign or barrel), you have to think about moving out around them, either into the travel lane, or some people would use the sidewalk, or just slow down until the moving cars have passed.

John Brooking

Cyclist, Cycling Educator, Technologist

http://cyclingsavvy.org

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[Winston Lumpkins]

I don't think I indicated that that friend had anyone to blame but himself...  I'm thinking of the crest of the hill on Veranda street.  Feels like a bike lane, isn't.  I suppose it doesn't make sense to be against something just because you're a space cadet.  Ludlow is a straight shot, so it's not easy to miss something in the way.   I'm not against bollards, and I've hit a few of those over the years...  There's a reason I don't drive. 

~Winston

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[John Brooking]

Sorry, I didn't mean to call anyone out.

John Brooking

Cyclist, Cycling Educator, Technologist

http://cyclingsavvy.org

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[Zack Barowitz]

Interesting discussion. I don’t have much to add other than that vehicles run into fixed objects all the time. For example, I heard the DoT word for “tree” if DFO (deadly fixed object). 

Zack 

[Maya Lena]

Hello PBPAC,

At 9:00am this morning, I received a text from a neighbor telling me that a Deering High School student was hit by a motor vehicle on Ludlow Street between Wayside Street and Hamblet Street at around 8:15am. The driver fled the scene. My neighbor was driving home after the crash occurred and there were already other adults on the scene helping and that the child was OK.

My husband biked through this area around 8:40am and said there was a police officer at the scene "talking with someone in a truck" so it appears that the incident was reported. I had biked through that area around 8:50am and did not see anything.

I do not have any information about whether the child was riding in one of the advisory lanes, or in the center lane, but as we can see the advisory lanes did nothing to protect this child from the dangerous driving that occurs on Ludlow Street.

Maya

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[Michael Dixon]

Thank you, Maya.

Appalling.

Also a route for students walking and riding to and fro Rowe, Breakwater, Longfellow, Lincoln, The Children's Center, and probably more.

On a personal note, I bike this route with my kids nearly daily.  Can't tell you how many times I have seen cars using this as a drag strip and, rather than slowing for the Keep Right island, just speed by on the wrong side of the island.

Enough with the infinite pilot programs and test paint strips.

How many more kids need to be injured--or worse—before the City takes authentic, effective action to ensure a safe route to and from school and home for every child and a safe street for everyone in every neighborhood?

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[Bridget Huber]

Thanks for letting us know, Maya. This is awful. My family and I also use Ludlow daily and the amount of reckless driving is shocking, as is the lack of protection for kids (and everyone else), considering all of the schools that Michael mentioned, plus the sports fields and skating pond. There is only a sidewalk on one side of the street, the crosswalks are poorly placed and the street's width really seems to entice people to speed. I also would like to see lanes go all the way to Stevens Ave, it's not clear why the experimental lanes stop before they get to such a high-use area.  

So, what do we do? Should a group of us ask for a meeting with someone at the city? 

Bridget

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[Damon Yakovleff]

Sorry to hear about this, thanks for sharing Maya. The Councilor Ride this weekend will provide an opportunity to highlight Ludlow Street issues and opportunities for improvements.

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[John Brooking]

I assume that speed humps or whatever they want to call them have been discussed in the past, and I know engineers tend to resist them and plow drivers complain, but it really sounds like nothing else is working. They seem to work pretty well on Pierce Street here in Westbrook, in my experience.

John Brooking

Cyclist, Cycling Educator, Technologist

http://cyclingsavvy.org

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[Amy Oberlin]

Late to the conversation, but I recently experienced an advisory bike lane for the first time while visiting Ann Arbor MI and then was made aware of Ludlow St. & this thread! I wanted to co-sign this guidance on lane widths just from that experience --

I had never heard of an advisory bike lane before when we came across the one driving around our old neighborhood in Ann Arbor -- we were confused, but I was absolutely convinced we were on a one-way street, because where would the other cars go?? We drove (cautiously) in the center lane, still confused.

The primary difference with Ludlow St. that is clear right away is the width of the center lane. I scrounged around for a photo of the Ann Arbor lane to show just how much narrower it was: link

This feels like sacrilege but I would almost propose adding a lane of painted street parking spots in order to narrow an overly wide street where advisory bike lanes were being added. The effects of traffic calming from the visual narrowing of the street and sense that as a driver you might encounter oncoming traffic head on at any time can't be overstated -- with a street wide enough to feel like two travel lanes, I would think you'd lose nearly all the benefit. You'd have all the same confusion but far less traffic calming.

[Maya Lena]

Amy,

Wow, thank you for sharing this image. I do think that the width of the center lane on Ludlow, plus one side of the advisory lanes being designated as parking are major factors in the confusion.

I am curious as to how others think a paint application as shown in the image shared by Amy (posted below for easier visibility) would change the experience on Ludlow.

Maya

Maya

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[Derek M. Strout]

Thanks for sharing your experience, Amy. I’ve never been to Ann Arbor, so I’m not familiar with this example, but here’s another perspective, heading east from State Street:

https://maps.app.goo.gl/Z64x9pBoZ5ywuntv5?g_st=ic

Derek

On Wed, Sep 28, 2022 at 12:47 PM Amy Oberlin <agob...@gmail.com> wrote:

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