drinking potions without wasting time and/or getting AoO'd

[Matthew Paluch]

So i have seen a few tricks to help with weapons and wands (weapon strings, some quick spring loaded wand deal), but as a melee i am axe and shield.

What can i buy or do to more easily free up a hand, get the potion out, and drink it, minimizing both actions and AoO please?  I have ultimate equipment, adventurers armory, and a ton of other books but it seems like my skimming them is not working for finding the sweet items.

any help on a melee trying to drink potions?

[Arthur Perkins]

Adventurers armory, spring loaded wrist sheath. Swift action remove item, no provoke.

[Matthew Paluch]

thanks!

On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 5:58 AM, Arthur Perkins <wvpol...@gmail.com> wrote:

Adventurers armory, spring loaded wrist sheath. Swift action remove item, no provoke.

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Matthew Paluch
404.375.8898

"The fair Ophelia! Nymph, in thy orisons

Be all my sins remember'd." - Hamlet, Act 3, Scene 1

[at.rob...@gmail.com]

I would be careful with those. I've certainly had GMs claim that only the items specifically listed under wrist sheaths are the only things that work in there (dagger, dart, wand, arrows, bolts, ammunition)

[Matthew Paluch]

maybe ill stick to my wand and just do potions 'the hard way', thx for reply

On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 6:02 AM, <at.rob...@gmail.com> wrote:

I would be careful with those. I've certainly had GMs claim that only the items specifically listed under wrist sheaths are the only things that work in there (dagger, dart, wand, arrows, bolts, ammunition)

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[Matthew Paluch]

ive also wondered if weapon strings work on shields too (technically can be used as a weapon and take up same hand mechanic as a weapon) so could free action drop shield, swift get want out, std use wand, move put wand away.  next round, swift shield up

[Brandon]

As a DM, I might let that work on a light shield, but not a heavy or tower.

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[Matthew Paluch]

i dont think its required on a light shield as you can hold stuff in the off hand.  you could just spring the wand into the off hand.  im not saying that means it should work on a heavy, just that its a wasted string on a light =)

[Andrew Roberts]

Not an item, but there's the Cheliax faction trait Accelerated Drinker that makes drinking a potion a move action.

[Jonathan Choy]

Not many ways to do this. This is by design .... melee aren't supposed to be drinking potions in melee.

[Arthur Perkins]

Spring loaded wrist sheath doesn't list items it can specifically only carry, but gives examples. http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2o0wj&page=2?Wrist-Sheaths-and-NotDaggers For the discussion. Unless you believe potions are larger than your forearm, they would fit in the sheath. It also specifically lists up to a pound of ammunition, lets assume this is the max amount of weight it can carry.

Physical Description: A typical potion or oil consists of 1 ounce of liquid held in a ceramic or glass vial fitted with a tight stopper. The stoppered container is usually no more than 1 inch wide and 2 inches high.

[Brandon]

Wands, ammo, and other such items aren't as breakable as a glass or ceramic vial, either.

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[Andrew Roberts]

I'm just saying there will be table variance on that one without an official ruling of what exactly is or isn't allowed.

On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 8:32 AM, Arthur Perkins <wvpol...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[Jonathan Choy]

a SLWS and purchasing metal potion vials would get you there on my tables. Still be an AOO standard action getting it unstoppered and drunk without being one of the good guys (i.e. Cheliax faction trait fast drinker). 

The action economy intentionally makes it very hard to get a potion down the throat of a melee without provoking, as this is supposed to be a team game where your spells are coming off of another players' actions.

(There's a somewhat deeper analysis of how PFRPG combat is structured, and the short version of its implications are the sentence above...)

[Labrat]

No matter what you do you will be spending an entire turn using a potion.

Retrieving a potion: Quickest it can be done is a move action that doesn't draw a AoO - Handy haversack

Drinking potion: The best you can do is a move action - Accelerated drinker, Drunken Brute Barbarian

The benefit of fast drinking is that you can split the actions over 2 turns and still take both standards.

As far as the spring loaded wrist sheath goes: It will not work with potions.

"The sheath can hold one forearm-length item such as a dagger, dart, or wand, or up to five arrows or crossbow bolts. "

I, as a GM, also extend this to a scroll with 1 spell on it so that scrolls of breath of life can be used in an emergency.

[Ian S]

IMO it would be very easy for players to abuse such a system, so there would need to be real limitations to avoid someone going commando and making his teammates less effective.

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Ian S

[David Silver]

What, everyone forgets the tieflings?

Swift draw everything, no sheaths required, no arbitrary limits!

[Labrat]

For those that think that Darts are small and thus potions should work too: These are not Bar darts you throw at a target, these are big land darts (Bigger than an arrow/smaller than a javalin)

[Brandon Cecil]

My solution:

[Arthur Perkins]

So what you are saying is that an object that fits the size requirements of the spring loaded wrist sheath cant be loaded, despite a lack of ruling on the part of paizo, simply from gm fiat? The description does not limit you to the items listed, it merely gives examples. Potions easily fit the size, weight, and shape requirements listed. I suppose you can handwave it at your table, but Id immediately call for a ruling after the game. 

[Andrew Roberts]

This is exactly what happens locally to us. People get in massive arguments about wrist sheaths, and we never come to a conclusion because there's no official ruling.

[Jonathan Choy]

... and you'd be left with no answer, based on there having been repeated calls for clarification in the general rules section, and Mike and Mark having better things to do than make rules minutiae calls.

Hell, we can't even get a good answer on how lighting is supposed to work in the game, let alone whether a VTT is correctly running said rules...

On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 11:32 AM, Arthur Perkins <wvpol...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Arthur Perkins]

There was a thread a month ago about how lighting works, that was endorsed repeatedly. But I can see that both John and Labrat posted in it already, so know of its existance. Oh well, suppose I have better things to do than beat my head against a wall. For my tables at least, I'd let wrist sheaths work as intended, storing potives of appropriate size; for anyone reading this thread that still cares~

[Matthew Paluch]

1) items.  it very clearly says 'forearm sized'.  "Such as" is just giving you a few examples, definitely not a list.  surely you arent saying that a single coin or a tiny gemstone would not fit because it isnt dagger shaped.

2) Fragility of the item itself.  An excellent point.  This reminds me of a mike brock quote on a couple topics, something along the lines of "the rule do not prohibit it.  However, GM discretion could disallow".  not to claim he agrees with me, but yeah.  

So i definitely think a potion sized item will fit, unless you are playing a race with tiny tiny forearms.  but the subject of how forceful the ejection is adds an element of gm wiggle room.

ps i had forgotten about haversack, thanks.

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[Paul Harries]

Hi

Tieflings have a simpler time of it - they can just draw potions as a swift action with their tails. Saves the move action, at least.

Thanks

Paul H

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From: Ian S <00i...@gmail.com>
To: pathfinder-society...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Monday, 20 May 2013, 16:06
Subject: Re: drinking potions without wasting time and/or getting AoO'd

IMO it would be very easy for players to abuse such a system, so there would need to be real limitations to avoid someone going commando and making his teammates less effective.

--

Ian S --

[Andrew Roberts]

Cheliax Tiefling. Potion every round without standard action, just make sure to have potion in hand.

Round:
Standard Action: Whatever.

Move Action: Drink Potion w/ Accelerated Drinker.

Swift Action: Pull out another potion!

[Ian S]

I would allow a potion to be stored anywhere it could physically fit, but there would be little or no benefit to such a mechanism bc it must still be unstoppered and drunk.

If rubber/plastic exists in the game-world, some sort of feeding tube might be workable.

On May 20, 2013 11:32 AM, "Arthur Perkins" <wvpol...@gmail.com> wrote:

So what you are saying is that an object that fits the size requirements of the spring loaded wrist sheath cant be loaded, despite a lack of ruling on the part of paizo, simply from gm fiat? The description does not limit you to the items listed, it merely gives examples. Potions easily fit the size, weight, and shape requirements listed. I suppose you can handwave it at your table, but Id immediately call for a ruling after the game. 

On Monday, May 20, 2013 11:07:00 AM UTC-4, Labrat wrote:

For those that think that Darts are small and thus potions should work too: These are not Bar darts you throw at a target, these are big land darts (Bigger than an arrow/smaller than a javalin)

On Monday, May 20, 2013 10:02:46 AM UTC-5, Labrat wrote:

No matter what you do you will be spending an entire turn using a potion.

Retrieving a potion: Quickest it can be done is a move action that doesn't draw a AoO - Handy haversack

Drinking potion: The best you can do is a move action - Accelerated drinker, Drunken Brute Barbarian

The benefit of fast drinking is that you can split the actions over 2 turns and still take both standards.

As far as the spring loaded wrist sheath goes: It will not work with potions.

"The sheath can hold one forearm-length item such as a dagger, dart, or wand, or up to five arrows or crossbow bolts. "

I, as a GM, also extend this to a scroll with 1 spell on it so that scrolls of breath of life can be used in an emergency.

[Brandon]

Constant potion IV drip, just change the bag.

 

"I need 30cc of CLW, Stat!"

[Brandon Cecil]

Be a real man!  Bite through the glass vial and chew glass with your Cure Light Wounds.  Then ask the cleric to cast Cure Serious Wounds on your mouth.

[Arthur Perkins]

The benefits of still having a move action and only provoking one AoO instead of two

On Monday, May 20, 2013 12:00:20 PM UTC-4, Ian S wrote:

I would allow a potion to be stored anywhere it could physically fit, but there would be little or no benefit to such a mechanism bc it must still be unstoppered and drunk.

If rubber/plastic exists in the game-world, some sort of feeding tube might be workable.

On May 20, 2013 11:32 AM, "Arthur Perkins" <wvpol...@gmail.com> wrote:

So what you are saying is that an object that fits the size requirements of the spring loaded wrist sheath cant be loaded, despite a lack of ruling on the part of paizo, simply from gm fiat? The description does not limit you to the items listed, it merely gives examples. Potions easily fit the size, weight, and shape requirements listed. I suppose you can handwave it at your table, but Id immediately call for a ruling after the game. 

On Monday, May 20, 2013 11:07:00 AM UTC-4, Labrat wrote:

For those that think that Darts are small and thus potions should work too: These are not Bar darts you throw at a target, these are big land darts (Bigger than an arrow/smaller than a javalin)

On Monday, May 20, 2013 10:02:46 AM UTC-5, Labrat wrote:

No matter what you do you will be spending an entire turn using a potion.

Retrieving a potion: Quickest it can be done is a move action that doesn't draw a AoO - Handy haversack

Drinking potion: The best you can do is a move action - Accelerated drinker, Drunken Brute Barbarian

The benefit of fast drinking is that you can split the actions over 2 turns and still take both standards.

As far as the spring loaded wrist sheath goes: It will not work with potions.

"The sheath can hold one forearm-length item such as a dagger, dart, or wand, or up to five arrows or crossbow bolts. "

I, as a GM, also extend this to a scroll with 1 spell on it so that scrolls of breath of life can be used in an emergency.

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[Sean Smith]

Sipping Jacket could be a fun solution to this issue.

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Thanks,

Sean

[Matthew Paluch]

well you are limited to two wrists.  

i will investigate metal vials because thats just a good 'gm trump card' if your whole build relies on being able to heal yourself and youre at a table at 2hp and the gm disallows your 30pt heal.

power-wise, i dont see a small bonus (you still get AoO'd which if i didnt state was the main thrust of my inquiry - my dwarf in melee constantly with potions h wants to use)

compared to the commonly accepted 2sp weapon strings this doesnt seem that much different (power level wise).

but i am bailing on the thread, having gotten the effective answer of 

(shakes magic 8-Ball):  "Reply Hazy, ask again later"

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[Matthew Paluch]

by the way, every time i ask a question it ends up costing my character gold for exotic items and me real $$ to buy the book its in LOL.  I am suspecting thats the Paizo plan haha!

lovingly. 

matt/molgrin

[Mathwei]

If you are really serious about it then you should buy a Sipping Jacket, This will let you drink a potion as a swift action (once per day) and you don't ever need to bother with retrieving it (saves you a crap-ton on action economy) and can be done anytime you want in 24 hours.
Also, the best part of it is to put a multi-round duration potion in there and just use it as needed (Paladin only spells are the best option for this.  My personal favorite is to put Righteous Vigor into it.  Gives me 4 rounds as needed of a stacking bonus to hit as well as up to 20 free temp hitpoints.  Mix that with a full attack and you can usually ignore a full round of attacks from one mid-level or lower opponent, and in PFS you can start doing this around 5th level.  It's REALLY worth it.


On Monday, May 20, 2013 3:41:34 AM UTC-5, Matthew Paluch wrote:

So i have seen a few tricks to help with weapons and wands (weapon strings, some quick spring loaded wand deal), but as a melee i am axe and shield.

What can i buy or do to more easily free up a hand, get the potion out, and drink it, minimizing both actions and AoO please?  I have ultimate equipment, adventurers armory, and a ton of other books but it seems like my skimming them is not working for finding the sweet items.

any help on a melee trying to drink potions?

[Matt Beatty]

Another great option is a potion of lesser restoration for a Barbarian. It's a quick and dirty method of rage cycling.