F.O.E. (Frequently Offered Excuses) Document (beta 0.1.2014-02-11) "Why I'm Not GM'in

[Scosu PFS]

F.O.E. (Frequently Offered Excuses) Document (beta 0.1.2014-02-11)

Fixes and Responses to people of the "Why I'm not GM'ing" group of players...


E1) Not familiar with the software (ie. Virtual Table Top Gaming Tools, Voice chat, Video chat)
A) Currently, the most widely used appear to be "Roll20" by roll20.net, and "Map Tool" by http://rptools.net/.   There are many fans of both.  From PERSONAL experience, Maptools has a higher technical bar to getting started in more cases than Roll20.  It requires Java, which some computers may have issues with.  It may require port forwarding which some computers, users, networks may have issues with.  I experienced both those issues.  Upon switching to Roll20, I've experienced none of those issues.  Your mileage may vary, and a Maptools user might happily work with you on a personal basis, but that is beyond the scope of this document.  Bottom line: Choose the easy tool that works for you, and start GM'ing.


E2) Not sure if port forwarding is required (ie person thinks map tools requires it, not sure roll 20 does) / I cant port forward due to some IP difficulties in my country
A) Tools are available that do not require port forwarding.  "Roll20" works without special network changes provided you have basic internet connectivity.  If the tools are getting in your way, DO NOT USE THEM!   Bottom line: Choose the easy tool that works for you, and start GM'ing.

E3) Map prep is a pain - paizo maps never fit right. (Can we have an online data base to share maps or is it not allowed)

A) You do not need to use their maps.  Most online virtual table top software comes with on-screen drawing tools.  You are welcome to use those.  Players are hungry enough for a game, they are NOT requiring you to have excellent map making skills.   Bottom line: Choose the easy tool that works for you, and start GM'ing.  

See Example 1.1.  

                                   Example 1.1 (contains a fair-use strip of copyright Paizo map material for comparison against in application tools.  All rights reserved)

E4) I have a terrible sound system. Once long time back, I attempted to run a game without realizing my sound system was bad, and got flamed for it. Never tried again.

A) Try again.  Ask people to help you do a Technical Walk-thru.  Ask for assistance.  And, failing that - it is PERFECTLY acceptable to run a game without you speaking, or without them speaking, or without a voice chat AT ALL.  (Additionally, this would increase accessibility to the Hearing Impaired community of gamers.)    START GM'ing ANYWAY!  Just, in your title put [Roll20/-NO-VOICE-CHAT] etc.   Bottom line: Choose the easy tool that works for you, and start GM'ing.

E5) My timezone. My games would probably be at 6-7 am for Americans. Maybe even 3 am.

A) Have you put out a "Request for Interest" ?  Did you know, there are people (even in America) who work schedules that are not typical 9 am - 5 pm workdays?  I used to work rotating 12 hour shifts - a 3 am game on my day off would have been FANTASTIC.  And, since there are players globally, you need not target just for people located in America.  English and Common Pathfinder has occurrences on every continent on the globe (well, except possibly / maybe for THAT one - but we won't go there)   Bottom line: Choose the easy tool that works for you, and start GM'ing.

There, all of your excuses have been shot down.  Begin GM'ing now.

[Arthur Perkins]

I appreciate your zeal if not your methods.
To answer many of the concerns listed here, this video may help: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lc6Vn8Js2Bc

[Scosu PFS]

The video is NOT closed captioned, and is not accessible to the Deaf/ Hard of Hearing community.

My document is TEXT, and IS accessible to the Deaf community.


The books for GMing are available, for free...

Pathfinder Society: GM 101 - http://paizo.com/products/btpy8vq7
Pathfinder Society: GM 201 - http://paizo.com/products/btpy919f

[Jonathan Choy]

I will note that keyboarding roleplay for orgplay typically increases the latency of games enough that the run time of a fast 3-combat scenario goes up to the 6-8 hour mark depending on tier, and the more-frequent-fights or delvey games could go even higher.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Pathfinder Society Online Collective" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to pathfinder-society-onlin...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to pathfinder-society...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/pathfinder-society-online-collective.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.

[Scosu PFS]

And, if a longer session is a problem for you - then I would highly recommend not playing in a chat-less game.

However, I would recommend encouraging ANY GM Activity, because if (the person in the thread) GM's, likes it - he may possibly be enticed to purchase a $6.99 microphone (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16836150080) and then we would have another full-function GM running games.

By re-enforcing the "well, it takes longer" (just shouldn't GM) excuse, we exclude more people from stepping up.

My first Pathfinder Society game AS A PLAYER was in person, January 17th 2014.  My first PFS online game AS A PLAYER was Mon, Jan 20, 2014.  

My first PFS GM'ing was online Sun, Feb 2, 2014.

I had no-one telling me "Oh, you can't do that - it's too hard - it will be too slow".  And, I think that was a benefit.  By NOT shooting down people right away, I was able to start GM'ing.  Since then I've had 3 successful tables and one abortion.

So - what if we, as a community- worked on saying "YES, GO FOR IT!" rather than perpetuating an attitude of "No one will go for it, because they aren't X, and Y, and Z out of the gate, so just give up" ???

[Arthur Perkins]

Can you find a single instance of someone telling someone else not to GM? You greatly misrepresent this community. As has not only been stated, but done and shown, members here are always willing to help new gm's find their feet. They simply need to take the first step.

[Keht]

ahh, I remember the days when all online games were in text and we used the worst program ever made... OpenRPG.   People who think roll20 is hard should try and deal with drawing out maps that get deleted two seconds after your done because of a program bug.

Can deaf people use mics?  #irony - ROFL, Oh, and blind people can't see your map even if they were using a TTS program, just saying.... 

To summarize the drama... there is plenty of info out there for people who have a desire to GM make it happen.  Sadly no text write-up's or video's can change people's desires.  All this is great information people should use it.

lulz, all these threads to day have been fantastic, my day has been brightened threefold. 

[Jonathan Choy]

Did I say anything about "it will take too long so don't do it"? 

No. I said it has, from experience in this and other orgplay environments, taken longer to complete a voice-less game. 

I'm glad you're enjoying PFS and have leapt in. Have fun, spread it around. Be an awesome advocate... we always like having new people to share our favorite adventures with.

Just be aware that your enthusiasm seems to be causing you to project things onto the statements of others. If I want someone to refrain from GMing or to step back from a thread.... Trust that I know how to use the contact tools to do so.

Voice-less games take a lot longer and are more energy intensive for the GM and the players. Many players who would be fine with a voice game and Roll20 may find a voiceless game taxes their ability to type to a sufficient degree that it becomes a distraction from RP. Players who have enjoyed active PbP games may find a voiceless game more natural than a voice + VTT dice game. 

I want groups that enjoy a certain way of playing online to find each other and have fun. I want people to have fun. That's why I'm hanging out in this group. 

[Prethen]

I, for one, would really not want to play online if the GM and players couldn't talk due to technical issues. I think the game would be very frustrating and tedious to do in chat (hence why I'm also not terribly interested in play-by-post). The dynamics would be completely different and not nearly as fun if you don't have everyone communicating verbally. I've done a bunch of these games now, all of them Roll20 and all of them via Google Hangouts and all them them were quite successful and very fun. Group dynamics via the Hangouts is a must have in my opinion. I've never heard of a situation yet where a GM throws up their hands and says forget about voice and couldn't get it to work.

[Keht]

yeah, mic's are required in my games... but that is just me, if someone wants to run a text game and players are good with it then go for it... I think that was the point here.

On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 4:33 PM, Prethen <bgolds...@hotmail.com> wrote:

I, for one, would really not want to play online if the GM and players couldn't talk due to technical issues. I think the game would be very frustrating and tedious to do in chat (hence why I'm also not terribly interested in play-by-post). The dynamics would be completely different and not nearly as fun if you don't have everyone communicating verbally. I've done a bunch of these games now, all of them Roll20 and all of them via Google Hangouts and all them them were quite successful and very fun. Group dynamics via the Hangouts is a must have in my opinion. I've never heard of a situation yet where a GM throws up their hands and says forget about voice and couldn't get it to work.

--

[Jonathan Choy]

Keht and I, among others here, remember the bad old days of the OpenRPG client and maybe-voice-maybe-not games on Blackstar.

There's a lot more description possible if you have a group of veteran keyboard-roleplay types, and sometimes not having to voice the Heroic Dialog can make it easier for your character's voice to come through. It's a different sort of dynamic, but it's easier to get a record of after the fact.

On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 4:33 PM, Prethen <bgolds...@hotmail.com> wrote:

I, for one, would really not want to play online if the GM and players couldn't talk due to technical issues. I think the game would be very frustrating and tedious to do in chat (hence why I'm also not terribly interested in play-by-post). The dynamics would be completely different and not nearly as fun if you don't have everyone communicating verbally. I've done a bunch of these games now, all of them Roll20 and all of them via Google Hangouts and all them them were quite successful and very fun. Group dynamics via the Hangouts is a must have in my opinion. I've never heard of a situation yet where a GM throws up their hands and says forget about voice and couldn't get it to work.

--

[David Santana]

How about vthe day of aol chat to run ganes? That was what we ghost ad to use

[Joe Jungers]

Played a lot of Living Kalamar via AOL Chat.

I swear, that dice roller was anything but a random number generator...

Cats - Can't live with us.
Can't rule the world without us.

[Carlos Clements]

I myself have access to google hangout, team speak and ventrillo. I'm sure there are many many more different types of online chat programs out there to use so you might want to have more then one incase you run into problems. As for this excuses thread is Scosu mad that we don't have more gm's and so many are using some of the excuses listed above?

[Jason Buch]

It's hard to figure out which thread to respond to, as this discussion seems to be happening three places. But I felt like it was worth saying...

I was part of one (the only?) game Mort ran using mostly text, which I think was the post that prompted all of this, and personally, I had no problem with it at all. So Mort, if you're out there still, there's at least one person who enjoyed the game you ran (Prince of Augustana, if I remember right), and would be happy to be part of another.

I'm in agreement that posting if a game is going to be text-only, or the GM is going to be text-only, is a good idea, in the same way that posting if it's going to be using Google Hangouts or Ventrillo or Teamspeak and Roll20.net or Maptool or Fantasy Grounds or whatever is a good idea. Just because some players don't want to use a particular tool, or only want to play voice games, doesn't mean that everyone will feel that way.

[Scosu PFS]

For the "Too Long; Did Not Read" crowd, a summary and short responses.
---------

I will note that keyboarding roleplay for orgplay typically increases
the latency of games enough that the run time of a fast 3-combat
scenario goes up to the 6-8 hour mark depending on tier, and the
more-frequent-fights or delvey games could go even higher.

* noted

--

Can you find a single instance of someone telling someone else not to GM?

* In those words, no. However, I have spoken with people who get that
FEELING - the feeling "they should not GM if they can not do it
perfectly to everyone's standards right out of the gate."
* Rule #BROADCASTING - These comments in reply are not just to the
person who wrote them, but for a general audience.

You greatly misrepresent this community.

* Rule #1000101 - IF this does not apply, THEN feel free to ignore.

As has not only been stated, but done and shown, members here are
always willing to help new gm's find their feet.

* Rule #1000101 - IF this does not apply, THEN feel free to ignore.
* Rule #1000101-B - IF someone thinks this may apply, THEN maybe they
can think about it.

They simply need to take the first step.

* Noted, and encouraged.

--

Can deaf people use mics? #irony

* Some can for speaking. Late deafened adults are the most likely to
have fully developed and unimpared speech. No #irony needed.

ROFL, Oh, and blind people can't see your map even if they were using
a TTS program, just saying....

* If you are refering to fully blind, then correct. If you are
refering to people meeting the legal standard of blindness, then you
may be incorrect. Screen Magnifyers, extra large screens, projections
all may be used. However, typically the fully sight impared would
benefit more from an in-person game. (One of my live players has
vision issues)


All this is great information people should use it.\
* Agreed

--

Did I say anything about "it will take too long so don't do it"?

* Rule #1000101 - IF this does not apply, THEN feel free to ignore.
* Rule #1000101-B - IF someone thinks this may apply, THEN maybe they
can think about it.

Just be aware that your enthusiasm seems to be causing you to project
things onto the statements of others. If I want someone to refrain
from GMing or to step back from a thread.... Trust that I know how to
use the contact tools to do so.

* Rule #BROADCASTING - These comments in reply are not just to the
person who wrote them, but for a general audience.
* Rule #1000101 - IF this does not apply, THEN feel free to ignore.
* Rule #1000101-B - IF someone thinks this may apply, THEN maybe they
can think about it.

--

yeah, mic's are required in my games... but that is just me, if
someone wants to run a text game and players are good with it then go
for it... I think that was the point here.

* 100 % AGREED.

--

As for this excuses thread is Scosu mad that we don't have more gm's
and so many are using some of the excuses listed above?

* Not mad. There is a problem, there are fixes available. There is
also the power of open and honest discussion not only for the benefit
of those who click "Reply" - but for those who read and absorb.

* Rule #BROADCASTING - These comments in reply are not just to the
person who wrote them, but for a general audience.

--

I was part of one (the only?) game Mort ran using mostly text, which I
think was the post that prompted all of this, and personally, I had no
problem with it at all.

* AWESOME, Excellent example.

So Mort, if you're out there still, there's at least one person who
enjoyed the game you ran (Prince of Augustana, if I remember right),
and would be happy to be part of another.

* Thank you for coming forward with that, for everyone's benefit.

* Rule #BROADCASTING - These comments in reply are not just to the
person who wrote them, but for a general audience.
* Rule #1000101-B - IF someone thinks this may apply, THEN maybe they
can think about it.

--

I'm in agreement that posting if a game is going to be text-only, or
the GM is going to be text-only, is a good idea, in the same way that
posting if it's going to be using Google Hangouts or Ventrillo or
Teamspeak and Roll20.net or Maptool or Fantasy Grounds or whatever is
a good idea.

* Agreed

Just because some players don't want to use a particular tool, or only
want to play voice games, doesn't mean that everyone will feel that
way.

* Agreed, and an excellent summary.
* Find the tools that work, and use them. Simply because you don't
draw maps as well as "Person X", or are not the Golden Narrator Voice
of "Person Y", should not stop people from TRYING.
* Yoda was wrong - there is a "TRY". And that should be encouraged.

SS

[Informed Opinion]

On Tuesday, February 11, 2014 4:38:46 PM UTC-5, David Santana wrote:

How about vthe day of aol chat to run ganes? That was what we ghost ad to use

My first OP experience was with the Procampur Project offshoot of the RPGA's Living City campaign.

Some games used AOL itself, and this had some "bells and whistles" that were nice to have, but these games were only accessible to AOL subscribers.  IRC games probably happened then too, but I lacked the software to participate in them.

Other games used AIM (AOL Instant Message) or privately run (by gaming clubs or individual gamers) browser-based chat clients.  Dice rolls were limited to the very basic #d# + #.  If you have multiple dice it took multiple commands, and there were no BUTTONS to press for dice, just text commands to invoke them.

Maps?  We didn't even have graphics!  If you REALLY wanted someone to know what your character looked like then you maintained your own personal web pages with images, or you mailed an image to everyone at the start of the game.

If a map was absolutely necessary we'd use a spreadsheet as a clunky kluge.  The best kluge had the GM mail out the initial "room" set-up and we'd each be responsible individually for keeping our local version up to date with each player's moves.  We'd also have to cite our "moves" by grid co-ordinates so others could make the correct update. Somehow, we managed to make our moves tactically and legally without having to see each 5-foot increment of the move.

Voice wasn't ever an option.  VOIP didn't exist, and a lot of people still had analog phones and purely copper wire infrastructure, so compressing voice enough to make it viable with dial-up bandwidths was just not possible...or would have cost a fortune!

Things *were* slower, but honestly, not that much slower than today.  For whatever reason, people stayed engaged and on point even with nearly all participants having typical dial-up lags!

By the time things had progress to OpenRPG we had tons more functionality, but stability was an issue.  Also, Windows had now completely replaced DOS as what people considered their "basic" operating system, and the years of "doubling every six months" meant that bandwidth, RAM and screen "territory" had improved drastically.  Attention spans had shortened and video games had proliferated into one of the largest of the entertainment industries.  These might be related, but even if they aren't, more RPGers now felt "under-stimulated" by playing pen and paper RPGs online.  So they multitasked with whatever was at hand.  All the speed gains realized by technology had been squandered by the pervasiveness of distractions.

From my experience, today's delays come mainly from rare tech glitches and interactions, or the further escalation of participant drift (distractions, unannounced AFKs, lack of preparation, etc.).  Voice use doesn't make it better or worse, as it affects individuals differently.  Adding voice may keep one person sufficiently engaged for them to eliminate (or minimize) their need for distractions, while at the same time may cause another person to lose focus.  If that sounds counter-intuitive to you, consider this detail.  LOTS of people completely forget to look at the VTT and text communication channels outside their turn, relying completely on the voice channel.  Unfortunately, given the fact that the voice channel is pretty much ALWAYS limited to ONE user at a time (digital sound sampling, compression and reconstruction makes multiple input streams extremely difficult to understand as a listener) MANY people will use the OTHER channels while the voice channel is occupied, so relying on voice only means losing LOTS of information.  It's less of a tech issue than a misuse of tech, but when you get right down to it there's really no functional difference.  Tech is only as good as the way it is used.

Tech shouldn't be a barrier for participation, but then again, in an ideal world people wouldn't misuse or abuse tech either.  Debating the matter doesn't do much good.

On Tuesday, February 11, 2014 1:19 PM UTC-5, Arthur Perkins wrote:

Can you find a single instance of someone telling someone else not to GM?

For what it's worth, I don't believe Mort's issue with GMing had anything to do any of the matter that have been discussed so far, at least this has been my take on things.  I consider Mort a good friend and very good company so perhaps I'm biased, but my interpretation of people's reactions, responses and actual words, during and after games, amount to these distilled points, including the one above that we seem to think is inconceivable!


* Mort's family is loud.  At times they have not been very considerate of Mort's needs for a relatively quiet environment when gaming.  When this occurs it makes it harder for Mort to use voice effectively.  Mort is not the only one who deals with this issue as there are gamers who game from Internet cafes, Starbucks, university public halls and other noisy environments.  It's not ideal, but people can only use what options/forums they have available to them.

* English isn't Mort's primary language, so an accent is present.  Many might call it significant.  Personally?  I have little to NO issue understanding Mort.  In fact, I don't think I've experienced difficulties any more often with Mort than I have with other people speaking via the Internet.  Voice-only communication is harder than F2F for several reasons including lip-reading, body language and in this case, completely avoiding the analog-digital-analog conversion process!  That said, I've lived my entire life in large and HEAVILY multicultural cities, so I've been exposed to somewhere between dozens and hundreds of DISTINCT accents.  Perhaps that means I'm more practiced than some at listening to English spoken in different ways, and perhaps it's just an obscure and non-lucrative talent I have.  People with less experience with foreign accents, people who themselves speak English with a DIFFERENT accent, and people who just don't have an ear for accents may have more difficulty gaming with people from other countries and cultures.  It should be noted that Aussie, Kiwi, Cockney, Bostonian, Southern Drawl, Midwest (nasal), South African, Canajun-Eh? and New Yawker are NOT "foreign" accents, and experience dealing with local flavors of English like these, no matter how bizarre or alien they seem, may or may not be helpful preparation for understanding English spoken as a second language.  It's also worth noting that neither the fluency of the speaker nor that of the listener have much of an effect on this communication issue.

There are scores of places around the world (e.g. India, Pakistan, Singapore, Hong Kong, much of the Middle East and Africa, etc.) that have English as an *official* language but that doesn't mean that it is the primary language.  Actually, there are probably more people on the planet living with English as an official but secondary language than there are native speakers!  It might not even be the first language for ANY members of the local population!  For whatever reason, political, geographical, historical, corporate/economic, (etc.) English has special status and/or is used by the government there.  English pronunciation in these places is almost always affected by the local majority language(s).

We game on the Internet so we should be prepared for this and tolerant of it.  Even if we didn't, travel and inter-continental migration is ubiquitous and has been for more than a generation.  Accents are a fact of life and we should be learning to cope with them for our own personal benefit.  Still, some would prefer to avoid anything that isn't effortless.  See the fabulous Homer Simpson quote here:  http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m5wwdtYit51qaobbko1_500.png

Fortunately, when people encounter difficulties in this area they are usually diplomatic or apologetic.  Those that find the issue problematic usually steer clear of the issue by avoiding anyone they find hard to comprehend.  That is certainly a valid choice, GOING FORWARD, but it doesn't help us when we get caught by surprise.  Sadly, one or more people were a tad too inherently intolerant, xenophobic, or discriminatory, and they mustered a less than diplomatic response before engaging strategy #2 and that negative feedback has clearly had an affect on Mort.  The fact that the negativity has on occasion shown up since then when Mort has participated as a player has made the felling worse.

I've spoken with Mort about this issue several times and it is just a reality that it is somewhere between difficult and impossible to "unring" a bell.

Community members frequently mention that the community is very forgiving and inclusive, but the fact is that this doesn't always hold true for all issues.  It is extremely probable that on a great many occasions 7 participants have met for a game, and 6 people went away thinking that everyone behaved wonderfully and that everyone had a grand time, with one person walking away having felt mistreated or otherwise had a terrible time.  Humans are much better at noting things directed at us as individuals than noting them when they are directed at others.  There are likely several people in the community reading this now and thinking "yeah, I know exactly how that feels"... and many more that left the community due to their bad experiences with others.  Some might even consider the naive commendations of the community as a whole as supportive as a further insult and marginalization of the slights, rudeness and abuses they experienced, be they perceived or real.

So, in effect, people DID tell Mort not to GM!  In fact, some people said those exact words...ABOUT Mort rather than to Mort.  I guess that's what amounts to tact for some people.

I can honestly say that I don't recall specifically who said what.  I can even say that it may not have been people that are primarily PSOC members (as opposed to primarily participants of another Online PFS community) or people that REMAIN part of PSOC.  Mort might have better recollection of these matters, but I strongly suspect that Mort won't see any value in naming names.  For that matter, that kind of reporting is culturally inconsistent so even had these experiences been fresh and fully documented they'd probably stay with Mort.  That may not be helpful for the VOs if they wanted to be punitive, but that isn't why I'm airing this issue.  I'm trying to dismiss the notion that everyone has been perfect ladies, gentlemen and hosts and that no one has a legitimate reason to avoid GMing.  It's just not true, even if the problem doesn't affect that many people and hasn't been perpetrated by that many people.

Again, Mort is NOT alone in this issue.  I only mention Mort because Mort's name has ALREADY been bandied about in these concurrent discussions of GMing.  Mort is certainly NOT the only person I've heard cite language or accent as their primary reason to not GM Online.  Further, both Mort and these unnamed others GM F2F among others with similar linguistic skills, so they ARE giving back, they are just avoiding US.

I've heard the same critical sentiments made about others as well, and I'm completely discounting those complaints I've heard about people who have been jerks, fudged or ignored rules (or scenarios), or reneged on promises once too often.  I'm strictly speaking about criticisms based on accents, cultures, opinions, attitudes, styles, manners, genders, expectations and the like.  (This list is neither comprehensive, nor have I necessarily heard complaints about ALL factors mentioned.  They are merely representative of the category of complaints.)

What is the difference between the two groups of reasons?  One group describes factors that are part of life and are, or at the very least can be, completely consistent with giving one's utmost effort to providing an entertaining experience for the other participants.  The other group of factors not only don't seem to be consistent with people concerned with giving effort or providing an experience, they seem to be opposed to it.  As far as you can tell, when those factors crop up, you aren't getting an experience, just an experience point.

I don't understand complaining about people that are clearly trying, nor about gossiping about whatever perceived gripe one may have.  If anyone feels that there is an area that needs improvement, and it isn't clear that the person in question is intentionally, apathetically or inconsiderately causing the issue, why wouldn't you tell that person in a constructive manner?  Even better, offer them whatever advice and assistance you can to help them overcome this perceived weakness.

On the other hand, when intent, apathy, a lack of empathy or any other matter of conscious choice seems to be the root cause of a problem, then I can see why people would have reason to be upset and choose to be just get as far away as possible, as soon as possible, rather than make any attempt to address the concerns.  Conventional wisdom states that those showing these root causes wouldn't be receptive to any input or feedback, so maybe that's best.  I've made the mistake of assuming that consistent "problem people" were problematic due to a lack of awareness rather than a lack of interest in being pleasant and more often than not I've seen it make bad situations worse.

The bottom line?

We all need to be more aware of our behavior and treatment of others, more sensitive to the needs of others, and more tolerant of differences we encounter.  It is just too hard to unring that bell, so it is far preferable to get it right the first time.

I still hope that those that bear scars from bad experiences will find enough encouragement from a broad array of people that they will try again, or for the first time if that is their situation.  That said, I will completely understand if they remain "gun-shy" and won't "get back on the horse".  All I can really hope is that I don't see this kind of traumatic reaction happen again.

Thanks for slogging through this rant.

And yes, perhaps it is crass to talk about what could be considered a "political" issue, but addressing it is better than having people dance around it endlessly and getting us nowhere.

Oren