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Øystein Arneson
Aug 12, 2014, 5:43:09 PM8/12/14
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Hi,
I am new to Pathfinder Society. I hope this is the correct place to post questions about how to make a character and what works/doesn't work. I was thinking to make a mounted summoner, but it is kinda hard to figure out what does/doesn't work so I have a few questions. Is there a PFS specific FAQ somewhere that lists questions for PFS?
1) Can you charge with a lance and get attacks both with the rider and the mount? Can you pounce? In what way does Ride-by-attack change what you can do?
2) Can you cast enlarge person on an Eidolon? http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fz#v5748eaic9obd this FAQ says even synthesists can do it, but for all I know things are different for pathfinder society?
3) Can you cast masterwork transformation on a heirloom weapon and hence enchant it further?
David Silver
Aug 12, 2014, 5:54:04 PM8/12/14
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1) The mount will need reach to attack, as you will have to stop away from the target to properly charge with the lance. If the mount can reach at the end of the charge then, yes, it would get its attack(s), as it DID charge.
2) Yes, there are no rules changing this.
3) Yes, there are no special rules saying you can't, just that you can only have one masterwork transformed item on your person at a time, but, once you get it to +1 or better, it stops counting.
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Øystein Arneson
Aug 12, 2014, 6:04:40 PM8/12/14
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Thanks for the swift answers. Are there any official rulings on these things, because I have seen answers in both directions to all of these questions? Even with Ride-By-Attack you need reach on all the attacks of the eidolon to be able to attack together with the rider?
On Tuesday, August 12, 2014 11:54:04 PM UTC+2, David Silver wrote:
1) The mount will need reach to attack, as you will have to stop away from the target to properly charge with the lance. If the mount can reach at the end of the charge then, yes, it would get its attack(s), as it DID charge.2) Yes, there are no rules changing this.3) Yes, there are no special rules saying you can't, just that you can only have one masterwork transformed item on your person at a time, but, once you get it to +1 or better, it stops counting.
On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 2:43 PM, Øystein Arneson <oyz...@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,I am new to Pathfinder Society. I hope this is the correct place to post questions about how to make a character and what works/doesn't work. I was thinking to make a mounted summoner, but it is kinda hard to figure out what does/doesn't work so I have a few questions. Is there a PFS specific FAQ somewhere that lists questions for PFS?1) Can you charge with a lance and get attacks both with the rider and the mount? Can you pounce? In what way does Ride-by-attack change what you can do?2) Can you cast enlarge person on an Eidolon? http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fz#v5748eaic9obd this FAQ says even synthesists can do it, but for all I know things are different for pathfinder society?3) Can you cast masterwork transformation on a heirloom weapon and hence enchant it further?
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David Santana
Aug 12, 2014, 6:16:11 PM8/12/14
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Why can you cast Enlarge Person on an Edilon? If it doesn't work on assists, it shouldn't work on Edison's. They are both outsiders
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David Silver
Aug 12, 2014, 6:19:48 PM8/12/14
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Quote: A summoner may cast spells on his eidolon even if the spells normally do not affect creatures of the eidolon's type (outsider)
David Santana
Aug 12, 2014, 6:31:19 PM8/12/14
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And again a reason why people think summoned are overpowered
David Silver
Aug 12, 2014, 6:39:45 PM8/12/14
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This only applies to spells on the summoner list. There are precious few that don't work on humanoids to start.
Can you name one besides enlarge person?
Tsriel
Aug 12, 2014, 6:45:37 PM8/12/14
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The Summoner class is very strong, but really, take away either ability
to use summon monster spells as a standard or the eidolon and it's definitely more managable.
On Tuesday, August 12, 2014 3:31:19 PM UTC-7, David Santana wrote:
Charge Rules & Universal Monster Rules
The thing here is if you're doing fancy stuff like Ride-by Attack, you need to keep in mind that both character and eidolon have their own seperate actions. You couldn't have the eidolon charge (full round action), attack with your lance as the character, then expect the eidolon to do things like pounce when it finished moving. You could give it the Trample evolution however, which would allow you to double stack tons of cheesy damage.
On Tuesday, August 12, 2014 3:31:19 PM UTC-7, David Santana wrote:
And again a reason why people think summoners are overpowered
Charge Rules & Universal Monster Rules
The thing here is if you're doing fancy stuff like Ride-by Attack, you need to keep in mind that both character and eidolon have their own seperate actions. You couldn't have the eidolon charge (full round action), attack with your lance as the character, then expect the eidolon to do things like pounce when it finished moving. You could give it the Trample evolution however, which would allow you to double stack tons of cheesy damage.
David Silver
Aug 12, 2014, 6:50:39 PM8/12/14
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Your words are contradictory. You say: You couldn't have the eidolon charge (full round action), attack with your lance as the character, then expect the eidolon to do things like pounce when it finished moving.
But the eidolon already charged. Pouncing is part of a charge and does not take more or less time than a charge. The trick is that a lance is a reach weapon, and if you're mounted up on a large creature, that means there's 10' of dead space between you and they, which means your eidolon needs a lot of reach to attack at the end of its charge with you up there keeping it from closing in during its charge.
On the other hand, if you're using a long sword or dagger or other non-reach weapon, then you have no issue. Your beast leaps up on someone and starts mauling them while you get in a slice/stab/swing.
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Jonathan Choy
Aug 12, 2014, 7:47:08 PM8/12/14
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There's a faq about this you might want to review....
Tsriel
Aug 12, 2014, 7:47:24 PM8/12/14
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Welcome to the contradictory and ambiguous world of charger builds. ^_^
(No, seriously though, the web is full of debates on this.)
I've no shame in admitting now that I tend to shy away from such builds for two reasons: 1) The damage output is usually gratuitous overkill. 2) I, personally, don't think its worth the frustration that does arise from table variance for organized play. (i.e. the dreaded rule 0).
Nonetheless, I want to help you as best as I can so I'm digging through things. Let's see p.201 of the CRB (5th Printing):
Mounted Combat
These rules cover being mounted on a horse in combat but can also be applied to more unusual steeds, such as a griffon or dragon.
Mounts in Combat: Horses, ponies, and riding dogs can serve readily as combat steeds. Mounts that do not possess combat training (see the Handle Animal skill) are frightened by combat. If you don’t dismount, you must make a DC 20 Ride check each round as a move action to control such a mount. If you succeed, you can perform a standard action after the move action. If you fail, the move action becomes a full-round action, and you can’t do anything else until your next turn. Your mount acts on your initiative count as you direct it. You move at its speed, but the mount uses its action to move.
A horse (not a pony) is a Large creature and thus takes up a space 10 feet (2 squares) across. For simplicity, assume that you share your mount’s space during combat.
Combat while Mounted: With a DC 5 Ride check, you can guide your mount with your knees so as to use both hands to attack or defend yourself. This is a free action.
When you attack a creature smaller than your mount that is on foot, you get the +1 bonus on melee attacks for being on higher ground. If your mount moves more than 5 feet, you can only make a single melee attack. Essentially, you have to wait until the mount gets to your enemy before attacking, so you can’t make a full attack. Even at your mount’s full speed, you don’t take any penalty on melee attacks while mounted. If your mount charges, you also take the AC penalty associated with a charge. If you make an attack at the end of the charge, you receive the bonus gained from the charge. When charging on horseback, you deal double damage with a lance (see Charge).
You can use ranged weapons while your mount is taking a double move, but at a –4 penalty on the attack roll. You can use ranged weapons while your mount is running (quadruple speed) at a –8 penalty. In either case, you make the attack roll when your mount has completed half its movement. You can make a full attack with a ranged weapon while your mount is moving. Likewise, you can take move actions normally.
Casting Spells While Mounted: You can cast a spell normally if your mount moves up to a normal move (its speed) either before or after you cast. If you have your mount move both before and after you cast a spell, then you’re casting the spell while the mount is moving, and you have to make a concentration check due to the vigorous motion (DC 10 + spell level) or lose the spell. If the mount is running (quadruple speed), you can cast a spell when your mount has moved up to twice its speed, but your concentration check is more difficult due to the violent motion (DC 15 + spell level). If Your Mount Falls in Battle: If your mount falls, you have to succeed on a DC 15 Ride check to make a soft fall and take no damage. If the check fails, you take 1d6 points of damage.
If You Are Dropped: If you are knocked unconscious, you have a 50% chance to stay in the saddle (75% if you’re in a military saddle). Otherwise you fall and take 1d6 points ofdamage. Without you to guide it, your mount avoids combat.
I think to better clarify myself and to give it a final understanding from my own perspective, Charging is a full round action, both you and eidolon count as charging. I haven't found anything further clarifying whether or not you can both pounce and overrun, so I'm doing a little R.A.I. here in saying that's a no since it's assumed your mount will have to stop its movement to use its pounce ability. Trample is an Overrun action which is a special action that can be done as part of the charge. I think you could either pounce or trample with a charge, but not both.
If anyone out there has a charger build or two with a book reference or FAQ to say otherwise, please chime in.
I've no shame in admitting now that I tend to shy away from such builds for two reasons: 1) The damage output is usually gratuitous overkill. 2) I, personally, don't think its worth the frustration that does arise from table variance for organized play. (i.e. the dreaded rule 0).
Nonetheless, I want to help you as best as I can so I'm digging through things. Let's see p.201 of the CRB (5th Printing):
Mounted Combat
These rules cover being mounted on a horse in combat but can also be applied to more unusual steeds, such as a griffon or dragon.
Mounts in Combat: Horses, ponies, and riding dogs can serve readily as combat steeds. Mounts that do not possess combat training (see the Handle Animal skill) are frightened by combat. If you don’t dismount, you must make a DC 20 Ride check each round as a move action to control such a mount. If you succeed, you can perform a standard action after the move action. If you fail, the move action becomes a full-round action, and you can’t do anything else until your next turn. Your mount acts on your initiative count as you direct it. You move at its speed, but the mount uses its action to move.
A horse (not a pony) is a Large creature and thus takes up a space 10 feet (2 squares) across. For simplicity, assume that you share your mount’s space during combat.
Combat while Mounted: With a DC 5 Ride check, you can guide your mount with your knees so as to use both hands to attack or defend yourself. This is a free action.
When you attack a creature smaller than your mount that is on foot, you get the +1 bonus on melee attacks for being on higher ground. If your mount moves more than 5 feet, you can only make a single melee attack. Essentially, you have to wait until the mount gets to your enemy before attacking, so you can’t make a full attack. Even at your mount’s full speed, you don’t take any penalty on melee attacks while mounted. If your mount charges, you also take the AC penalty associated with a charge. If you make an attack at the end of the charge, you receive the bonus gained from the charge. When charging on horseback, you deal double damage with a lance (see Charge).
You can use ranged weapons while your mount is taking a double move, but at a –4 penalty on the attack roll. You can use ranged weapons while your mount is running (quadruple speed) at a –8 penalty. In either case, you make the attack roll when your mount has completed half its movement. You can make a full attack with a ranged weapon while your mount is moving. Likewise, you can take move actions normally.
Casting Spells While Mounted: You can cast a spell normally if your mount moves up to a normal move (its speed) either before or after you cast. If you have your mount move both before and after you cast a spell, then you’re casting the spell while the mount is moving, and you have to make a concentration check due to the vigorous motion (DC 10 + spell level) or lose the spell. If the mount is running (quadruple speed), you can cast a spell when your mount has moved up to twice its speed, but your concentration check is more difficult due to the violent motion (DC 15 + spell level). If Your Mount Falls in Battle: If your mount falls, you have to succeed on a DC 15 Ride check to make a soft fall and take no damage. If the check fails, you take 1d6 points of damage.
If You Are Dropped: If you are knocked unconscious, you have a 50% chance to stay in the saddle (75% if you’re in a military saddle). Otherwise you fall and take 1d6 points ofdamage. Without you to guide it, your mount avoids combat.
I think to better clarify myself and to give it a final understanding from my own perspective, Charging is a full round action, both you and eidolon count as charging. I haven't found anything further clarifying whether or not you can both pounce and overrun, so I'm doing a little R.A.I. here in saying that's a no since it's assumed your mount will have to stop its movement to use its pounce ability. Trample is an Overrun action which is a special action that can be done as part of the charge. I think you could either pounce or trample with a charge, but not both.
If anyone out there has a charger build or two with a book reference or FAQ to say otherwise, please chime in.
Tsriel
Aug 12, 2014, 7:48:50 PM8/12/14
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Well don't be shy, hit us up with some references!
Octave Antoni
Aug 13, 2014, 4:37:32 AM8/13/14
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Hello,
I thought I could put my five cents in this thread since I'm playing a level 7 PFS mounted summoner. I'm on my phone so I can't link it to you but the FAQ previously mentionned is very useful.
1) There is a lot of debate about this but essentially you can make your attack at the first point during the charge at which you can hit your target, that is 10ft away from it.
Contrary to what's being said, making your attack does not interrupt your mount's charge and she (my eidolon's a she) may then get close up and make her full pounce attacks. It makes sense because in real life you'd be impaling your target.
How RBA interacts with that is that it allows you to make a "sideways charge" in which you can attack the RBA target, your mount however can't, but you may choose to have her use pounce on another target which would have to be in the straight line of the charge (very unlikely) or when using wheeling charge she will have much more options.
Keep in mind that when fighting a strong enemy your eidolon's attacks are unlikely to hit and/or to bypass DR so ride by attacking at every round then getting away can be very useful.
Also the feat "charge through" allows you to charge through allies (as well as bullrushing ennemies) which can be very useful especially in PFS where players don't get to learn the others' tactics.
2) Yes you can.
3) Can't help you with that, it's not mounted summoner related.
If you want any help with your build don't hesitate to send me an email.
Best regards,
Octave
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Robert S
Aug 15, 2014, 9:07:46 PM8/15/14
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As Tsriel posted, expect a LOT of table variance. I currently have a
level 11 'Paladin' with a Griffon as a Divine Bond; I carry a lance, but
rarely use it do to Mounted Combat confusion (trust me, don't waste
your time). I also have a level 7 Summoner with a Serpentine Eidolon,
which will probably become mounted at level 8, when the Eidolon is
permanently large (both have reach and 1 attack each on a charge).
When I was new to PFS, I asked the silly question about 3.5 errata being legal in the absence of a ruling by PF staff. The answers I was given all agreed, and usually on both of these points (as contradictory as they sound). a) they are COMPLETELY separate games and anything issued by WotC had nothing to do PF. b) While most base 3.5 stuff issued by WotC was OGL, their errata was not. Any company using their errata could face legal issues by using copyrighted material
If you notice, OGL material 'borrowed' from WoTC (at least what I've found) is identical. Year after year, many questions continually surface; these questions are never addressed by Paizo and all have answers in 3.X FAQ. The only Errata that Paizo has issued on it has be contradictory to that issued by WotC; which is OK, since it doesn't agree with WotC copyrighted material. You do the math, but never expect an official answer.
In addition, there are numerous updates and changes by Paizo staff that are to be considered official. That is, until Stephen Radney-MacFarland put out a statement that said everything they posted was opinion and nothing was official, except the "official" FAQs, which they rarely update. *facepalm* http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2r5a2?Designer-quotes-youd-like-to-see-in-the-FAQ
Official FAQs: http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm
Issues I've encountered.
New rules for a "Mounted Charge" state that for the rider to charge, the mount must charge as well (although, the mount can charge without the rider charging, as per old rules). Charge rules state that movement ends in the first square you can legally make an attack; since the rider must end movement, all DMs I've played with have also interpreted this that the mount must end movement (since the rider cannot move without the mount). If your reach is longer then your mount's, mount doesn't get to attack. I haven't found any rules that grant exceptions, other then feats.
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2prmb&page=2?Vital-Strike#93
now, for your questions...
1)
There is ambiguity on how you 'count' as occupying a mount's square(s). Most DMs have ruled that you count as being in all of the mount's squares; while this disagrees with how every other 'occupying your enemy's square' ability works (underfoot assault, swarms, etc), this is the generally accepted rule. Some DMs will play this like other similarly worded abilities, re: you choose 1 square of your mount and count as occupying it for making attacks. If you're playing with this type of DM, then you can count as being in a square (say, rear left) and charge adjacent to the enemy, with you getting reach attacks, and mount getting 5' attacks. This was how it was handled in 3.5 (but see above as to why this will never be official).
How does all this affect Eidolons? Lots of variation. First, only a quadraped can get pounce. Second, only a biped can have 'natural' reach on all attacks when it is large; non-bipeds get 'natural' reach when they become Huge. Third, while an Eidolon can purchase the reach evolution, it can only do so ONCE (the evolution does NOT say it can be purchased multiple times) and only applies to a single attack, aka, 1 bite or 1 claw, even if the eidolon has multiples of both. My Eidolon, for example, will have 3-5 heads (with bite), but only 1 bite attack will have 5' extra reach, since the evolution cannot be chosen more then once.
If you want to use a lance, the only guaranteed way to give the Eidolon an attack is if you give it reach. That said, if you play with a DM that allows you to count as being in only 1 square, charging still won't give your mount full attacks if it does have reach.
Giving a Quad pounce and reach evolution is a waste of time; when it charges, it must end its movement in the first square from which it can attack, which will be with only the reach attack. When it is Huge, all attacks will have 10' reach.
If you want to charge over allies, give your mount Dragon Style (highly recommended). This lets you charge through difficult terrain and allies. Charge Through isn't recommended, since it is an attack on an ally (per PFS, PvP only allowed if player agrees). Since it requires Improved Overrun, the ally cannot avoid the Overrun attempt, which means there is a chance it will fail or ally will be knocked prone. Expect table variation as to whether or not the maneuver will automatically succeed.
Search through the rules forums, there is a LOT on this topic, going back years. Mounted Combat rules were some of the most poorly implemented in 3.5 and PF has made things worse. At least WotC issued errata that Paizo will/can never do.
How does this work with Ride-by-attack? RBA requires the rider to continue movement in a straight line. Usually, you make a sideways charge (as Octave pointed out) and move away. As it is currently worded, it allows a charge to move, attack, and move again. Note that this does not specify the mount attacking in this sequence. YMMV as to whether or not a DM will allow the mount to attack after the second move.
2) Yes, you can cast Summoner spells from the Summoner list on your Eidolon. This includes Enlarge Person.
that said... expect table variation! Most DMs interpret this that you can only cast the EP if you're casting it from your personal spell allotment. The only exception I've encountered is one of our Online VLs, told me that he allows Share Spells to work through wands.
3) Yes, you can Masterwork Transform a Heirloom weapon... just be aware that it has changed it isn't nearly as good as when it was first printed.
When I was new to PFS, I asked the silly question about 3.5 errata being legal in the absence of a ruling by PF staff. The answers I was given all agreed, and usually on both of these points (as contradictory as they sound). a) they are COMPLETELY separate games and anything issued by WotC had nothing to do PF. b) While most base 3.5 stuff issued by WotC was OGL, their errata was not. Any company using their errata could face legal issues by using copyrighted material
If you notice, OGL material 'borrowed' from WoTC (at least what I've found) is identical. Year after year, many questions continually surface; these questions are never addressed by Paizo and all have answers in 3.X FAQ. The only Errata that Paizo has issued on it has be contradictory to that issued by WotC; which is OK, since it doesn't agree with WotC copyrighted material. You do the math, but never expect an official answer.
In addition, there are numerous updates and changes by Paizo staff that are to be considered official. That is, until Stephen Radney-MacFarland put out a statement that said everything they posted was opinion and nothing was official, except the "official" FAQs, which they rarely update. *facepalm* http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2r5a2?Designer-quotes-youd-like-to-see-in-the-FAQ
Official FAQs: http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm
Issues I've encountered.
New rules for a "Mounted Charge" state that for the rider to charge, the mount must charge as well (although, the mount can charge without the rider charging, as per old rules). Charge rules state that movement ends in the first square you can legally make an attack; since the rider must end movement, all DMs I've played with have also interpreted this that the mount must end movement (since the rider cannot move without the mount). If your reach is longer then your mount's, mount doesn't get to attack. I haven't found any rules that grant exceptions, other then feats.
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2prmb&page=2?Vital-Strike#93
now, for your questions...
1)
There is ambiguity on how you 'count' as occupying a mount's square(s). Most DMs have ruled that you count as being in all of the mount's squares; while this disagrees with how every other 'occupying your enemy's square' ability works (underfoot assault, swarms, etc), this is the generally accepted rule. Some DMs will play this like other similarly worded abilities, re: you choose 1 square of your mount and count as occupying it for making attacks. If you're playing with this type of DM, then you can count as being in a square (say, rear left) and charge adjacent to the enemy, with you getting reach attacks, and mount getting 5' attacks. This was how it was handled in 3.5 (but see above as to why this will never be official).
How does all this affect Eidolons? Lots of variation. First, only a quadraped can get pounce. Second, only a biped can have 'natural' reach on all attacks when it is large; non-bipeds get 'natural' reach when they become Huge. Third, while an Eidolon can purchase the reach evolution, it can only do so ONCE (the evolution does NOT say it can be purchased multiple times) and only applies to a single attack, aka, 1 bite or 1 claw, even if the eidolon has multiples of both. My Eidolon, for example, will have 3-5 heads (with bite), but only 1 bite attack will have 5' extra reach, since the evolution cannot be chosen more then once.
If you want to use a lance, the only guaranteed way to give the Eidolon an attack is if you give it reach. That said, if you play with a DM that allows you to count as being in only 1 square, charging still won't give your mount full attacks if it does have reach.
Giving a Quad pounce and reach evolution is a waste of time; when it charges, it must end its movement in the first square from which it can attack, which will be with only the reach attack. When it is Huge, all attacks will have 10' reach.
If you want to charge over allies, give your mount Dragon Style (highly recommended). This lets you charge through difficult terrain and allies. Charge Through isn't recommended, since it is an attack on an ally (per PFS, PvP only allowed if player agrees). Since it requires Improved Overrun, the ally cannot avoid the Overrun attempt, which means there is a chance it will fail or ally will be knocked prone. Expect table variation as to whether or not the maneuver will automatically succeed.
Search through the rules forums, there is a LOT on this topic, going back years. Mounted Combat rules were some of the most poorly implemented in 3.5 and PF has made things worse. At least WotC issued errata that Paizo will/can never do.
How does this work with Ride-by-attack? RBA requires the rider to continue movement in a straight line. Usually, you make a sideways charge (as Octave pointed out) and move away. As it is currently worded, it allows a charge to move, attack, and move again. Note that this does not specify the mount attacking in this sequence. YMMV as to whether or not a DM will allow the mount to attack after the second move.
2) Yes, you can cast Summoner spells from the Summoner list on your Eidolon. This includes Enlarge Person.
that said... expect table variation! Most DMs interpret this that you can only cast the EP if you're casting it from your personal spell allotment. The only exception I've encountered is one of our Online VLs, told me that he allows Share Spells to work through wands.
3) Yes, you can Masterwork Transform a Heirloom weapon... just be aware that it has changed it isn't nearly as good as when it was first printed.
On Wednesday, August 13, 2014 2:37:32 AM UTC-6, Octave Antoni wrote:
Hello,I thought I could put my five cents in this thread since I'm playing a level 7 PFS mounted summoner. I'm on my phone so I can't link it to you but the FAQ previously mentinnned is very useful.
1) There is a lot of debate about this but essentially you can make your attack at the first point during the charge at which you can hit your target, that is 10ft away from it.Contrary to what's being said, making your attack does not interrupt your mount's charge and she (my eidolon's a she) may then get close up and make her full pounce attacks. It makes sense because in real life you'd be impaling your target.How RBA interacts with that is that it allows you to make a "sideways charge" in which you can attack the RBA target, your mount however can't, but you may choose to have her use pounce on another target which would have to be in the straight line of the charge (very unlikely) or when using wheeling charge she will have much more options.Keep in mind that when fighting a strong enemy your eidolon's attacks are unlikely to hit and/or to bypass DR so ride by attacking at every round then getting away can be very useful.Also the feat "charge through" allows you to charge through allies (as well as bullrushing ennemies) which can be very useful especially in PFS where players don't get to learn the others' tactics.2) Yes you can.3) Can't help you with that, it's not mounted summoner related.If you want any help with your build don't hesitate to send me an email.Best regards,Octave
Hi,--I am new to Pathfinder Society. I hope this is the correct place to post questions about how to make a character and what works/doesn't work. I was thinking to make a mounted summoner, but it is kinda hard to figure out what does/doesn't work so I have a few questions. Is there a PFS specific FAQ somewhere that lists questions for PFS?1) Can you charge with a lance and get attacks both with the rider and the mount? Can you pounce? In what way does Ride-by-attack change what you can do?2) Can you cast enlarge person on an Eidolon? http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fz#v5748eaic9obd this FAQ says even synthesists can do it, but for all I know things are different for pathfinder society?3) Can you cast masterwork transformation on a heirloom weapon and hence enchant it further?
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Octave Antoni
Aug 16, 2014, 5:04:41 AM8/16/14
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Honestly, I've never played with a GM not allowing my eidolon/mount to make her attacks during a mounted charge, even though she only has 5ft reach. I'm quite surprised by what you say.
Whatever the new FAQ says, which is more confusing than anything, its the mount that charges not the rider (even though he had to use a charge action, which is the only thing that makes sense), so the charge should end when the mount can make her attacks. Any other interpretation is pure rule lawyering that has nothing to do with reality, who would be able to make, say a wolf, stop charging when he's just out of reach of his target?
In the case of a lance charge the rider would just prop his lance straight before impact and spear throug his foe.
If a simple reality check does not work, and that's really worse case scenario, you could just say that youre sitting on the rear of your mount and I challenge anyone to find something's that's wrong with that in the rules.
But then you're playing a paladin, so I don't think it really matters to you if your mount can attack or not, so of course you don't need to challenge a decision that would prevent her to do so. But for a mounted summoner it's quite the opposite ^^
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Octave Antoni
Aug 16, 2014, 5:10:02 AM8/16/14
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One another thing, I think it would be wrong of a GM to allow the mount to make her attacks during the RBA.
The rider can swivel on his saddle to make his RBA attack but the mount has to continue running straight I don't see how she could attack.
The rider can swivel on his saddle to make his RBA attack but the mount has to continue running straight I don't see how she could attack.
David Bross
Aug 16, 2014, 5:46:47 AM8/16/14
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Simply put RAW doesn't allow you to make a lance attack from the back of a large creature with a 5' reach, ever. You AND the mount must charge, you would stop in different squares, you can't charge together!
This is something that needs to be addressed, and there is a faq awaiting answers
Octave Antoni
Aug 16, 2014, 6:19:25 AM8/16/14
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So if we agree that RAW doesn't allow a lance mounted charge, even though that's what lances are made for, we have to agree that RAW is illogical and use RAI. I'm not saying I agree that RAW says that it just depends how you interpret the wording.
Honestly I'm not even waiting for a FAQ on this I have posted multiple times for mounted charge related problems and I have a .txt file on my computer in which I have stored official quotes on the subject. But that's only if push comes to shove, who would want to have his game stopped to discuss rules that are so obviously misleading.
My reading of the FAQ is that the mount is charging but the rider has to use a charge action to make his attack if his mount is charging. Saying that both are charging is just nonsense, the rider isn't running alongside his mount. Maybe I've only played with no nonsense GMs on this group but I don't see why a GM would uphold such a failed attempt at cleating up the rules by insisting that the wording of RAW disallows mounted charges.
Honestly I'm not even waiting for a FAQ on this I have posted multiple times for mounted charge related problems and I have a .txt file on my computer in which I have stored official quotes on the subject. But that's only if push comes to shove, who would want to have his game stopped to discuss rules that are so obviously misleading.
My reading of the FAQ is that the mount is charging but the rider has to use a charge action to make his attack if his mount is charging. Saying that both are charging is just nonsense, the rider isn't running alongside his mount. Maybe I've only played with no nonsense GMs on this group but I don't see why a GM would uphold such a failed attempt at cleating up the rules by insisting that the wording of RAW disallows mounted charges.
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