Rule questions

[Colby Holland]

Just read this in the rule book.  Not totally sure if this is what we saw between Blaine and Adam, but it would seem to me to be so:

Fouls (II.E): It is the responsibility of all players to avoid contact in every way possible .

1. A foul can be called only by the fouled player and must be announced by loudly calling foul immediately after it occurs.
2. Contact resulting from adjacent opposing players simultaneously vying for the same unoccupied position, is not in itself a foul.
3. Some fouls carry some extra provisions, as listed below.
   1. Throwing Fouls:
      1. A throwing foul may be called when there is non-incidental contact between the thrower andmarker . The disc in a thrower's possession is considered part of the thrower.
      2. In general, any contact between the thrower and the extended (i.e., away from the midline of the body) arms or legs of a marker is a foul on the marker, unless the contacted area of the marker is completely stationary and in a legal position.
      3. Any contact that occurs due to the marker setting up in an illegal position (XIV.B.3) is a foul on the marker. Once the marker has set up in a legal marking position, it is the responsibility of both players to respect this legal position. However, contact resulting from the thrower and the marker both vying for the same unoccupied position is a foul on the marker.
      4. Any contact initiated by a thrower with the body (excluding arms and legs extended from the midline of the body) of a legally positioned (XIV.B.3) marker is a foul on the thrower.
      5. Although it should be avoided whenever possible, incidental contact occurring during the follow-through (after the disc is released) is not a foul .
      6. Any references above to a marker also apply to any defensive player within three meters of the thrower's pivot.

https://www.usaultimate.org/resources/officiating/rules/11th_edition_rules.aspx

[Mathew Swenson]

What I saw was them make a play on the disc, the disc was going away from Blaine, and as Adam swiped at the disc, his follow-through hit Blaine. If Blaine had been in contact with the disc, or if the disc was still in his reach, I think it would have been a foul. But, from my perception, it was out of his reach, and the contact happened after he tried to catch it, so it didn't affect the play. Getting hit in the ribs while outstretched is less than awesome, but I think it was incidental and not affecting the play, so no foul. But, just my perception, and I would have been fine with a contested foul if Blaine said his hand was still on the disc, or if he thinks he still had a play on it.

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[Woodard, Frankie B (Blane) SMSgt USAF DISA EU (US)]

Below is what I am talking about.

 

Receiving Fouls:

1.     If a player contacts an opponent while the disc is in the air and thereby interferes with that opponent's attempt to make a play on the disc, that player has committed a receiving foul. Some amount of incidental contact before, during, or immediately after the attempt often is unavoidable and is not a foul.

2.     If XVI.C.2.b.1 of the continuation rule applies: if the call is uncontested, the fouled player gains possession at the spot on the playing field closest to the spot of the infraction. If the foul is contested, the disc reverts to the thrower.

3.     The Principle of Verticality: All players have the right to enter the air space immediately above their torso to make a play on a thrown disc. If non-incidental contact occurs in the airspace immediately above a player before the outcome of the play is determined (e.g., before possessionis gained or an incomplete pass is effected), it is a foul on the player entering the vertical space of the other player .

 

 

The big thing is there has been a lot of contact lately due to a combination of new folks and congestion on the field and we need to establish what contact fouls are.  Do we say that everything is fair if both players are trying to catch the disc, or do we say that the defender must at least hit part of the disc?  Either way, I don’t like seeing things like last week when Colby was running across the field and someone threw a blatant shoulder into him as he was running by.  On today’s play, the disc did hit me in the hands as contact was made, not sure if Adam hit the disc or not but I do know that he was not intentionally trying to hit me.

 

Blane

 

 

From: patch-barra...@googlegroups.com <patch-barra...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Colby Holland
Sent: Tuesday, October 9, 2018 3:20 PM
To: patch-barra...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Rule questions

 

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Just read this in the rule book.  Not totally sure if this is what we saw between Blaine and Adam, but it would seem to me to be so:

 

Fouls (II.E < Caution-https://www.usaultimate.org/resources/officiating/rules/11th_edition_rules.aspx#II.E > ): It is the responsibility of all players to avoid contact in every way possible .

1.     A foul can be called only by the fouled player and must be announced by loudly calling foul immediately after it occurs.

2.     Contact resulting from adjacent opposing players simultaneously vying for the same unoccupied position, is not in itself a foul.

3.     Some fouls carry some extra provisions, as listed below.

a.     Throwing Fouls:

1.     A throwing foul may be called when there is non-incidental contact between the thrower andmarker . The disc in a thrower's possession is considered part of the thrower.

2.     In general, any contact between the thrower and the extended (i.e., away from the midline of the body) arms or legs of a marker is a foul on the marker, unless the contacted area of the marker is completely stationary and in a legal position.

3.     Any contact that occurs due to the marker setting up in an illegal position (XIV.B.3 < Caution-https://www.usaultimate.org/resources/officiating/rules/11th_edition_rules.aspx#XIV.B.3 > ) is a foul on the marker. Once the marker has set up in a legal marking position, it is the responsibility of both players to respect this legal position. However, contact resulting from the thrower and the marker both vying for the same unoccupied position is a foul on the marker.

4.     Any contact initiated by a thrower with the body (excluding arms and legs extended from the midline of the body) of a legally positioned (XIV.B.3 < Caution-https://www.usaultimate.org/resources/officiating/rules/11th_edition_rules.aspx#XIV.B.3 > ) marker is a foul on the thrower.

5.     Although it should be avoided whenever possible, incidental contact occurring during the follow-through (after the disc is released) is not a foul .

6.     Any references above to a marker also apply to any defensive player within three meters of the thrower's pivot.

 

Caution-https://www.usaultimate.org/resources/officiating/rules/11th_edition_rules.aspx < Caution-https://www.usaultimate.org/resources/officiating/rules/11th_edition_rules.aspx > 

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[Mathew Swenson]

Adam asked me to send this, he was unable to respond from his work account. Schlagel would be proud that we are legislating the game. Ever since the painted lines took away most of the in/out calls, we have had to resort to attempted murder.

From Adam: From my perspective it was "contact resulting from adjacent opposing players simultaneously vying for the same unoccupied position" so it is not in itself a foul. I think it was #1 in receiving fouls. Since neither of us where jumping straight up #3 doesn't apply.

 

Receiving Fouls:

 

1.If a player contacts an opponent while the disc is in the air and thereby interferes with that opponent's attempt to make a play on the disc, that player has committed a receiving foul. Some amount of incidental contact before, during, or immediately after the attempt often is unavoidable and is not a foul.

 

2.If XVI.C.2.b.1 of the continuation rule applies: if the call is uncontested, the fouled player gains possession at the spot on the playing field closest to the spot of the infraction. If the foul is contested, the disc reverts to the thrower.

 

3.The Principle of Verticality: All players have the right to enter the air space immediately above their torso to make a play on a thrown disc. If non-incidental contact occurs in the airspace immediately above a player before the outcome of the play is determined (e.g., before possession is gained or an incomplete pass is effected), it is a foul on the player entering the vertical space of the other player.

 

4.Force-out Foul: If an airborne player catches the disc and is contacted by an opposing player before landing, and that contact causes the player to land out-of-bounds instead of in-bounds, or out of the end zone instead of in the end zone, it is a foul on the opposing player and the fouled player retains possession at the spot of the foul. If an uncontested force-out foul results in an in-bounds player landing outside the end zone being attacked when they would have landed in the end zone without the foul, a goal is awarded    

[Mathew Swenson]

I agree with Blaine that there has been a lot more contact recently, and some of it is definitely due to having so many people on the field. Should we consider doing 7v 7 and having a few folks on the side? We could rotate every point (or couple of points). It would be up to the team to keep it equitable that folks are getting roughly equal playing tim, i.e., even the best players would have to sit out a couple points, you can't just rotate the new guys in/out.

In a typical game, most folks would miss 2 points. Thoughts?

On Tue, Oct 9, 2018 at 4:29 PM Woodard, Frankie B (Blane) SMSgt USAF DISA EU (US) <frankie.b....@mail.mil> wrote:

[Aaron Manzo]

After the first email in this thread, I had the same thought as Matthew. Schlagel would tear up if he saw this email discussion. Hahaha.

Also, who dared to challenge Colby the Frisbarian's reign? 

As for me, I enjoy the rules discussions too, as I tend to err on the side of never calling a foul against me because I'm not totally clear on the rules. 

My example would be when Blane and I collided in the endzone. My interpretation of that one would be by rule of verticality I would have been able to call a foul as he came into the space I was occupying. However, I could also see it as we were both vying for unoccupied space maybe since we were both running for the disc. 

I say we hire refs for Tuesday and Thursdays. hahaha. Problem solved!

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Aaron T. Manzo

aaron....@gmail.com

[Mathew Swenson]

Ok, we have 50 minutes to parse the rules before game time. Everyone should take this time to read a short snippet of the rules, out of context, and then come prepared to assert your position in the middle of the game.

Legislate on, my friends. 

[Espinosa, Alberto (Panda) SSgt USAF EUCOM ECJ2 (US)]

You're all wrong when I step on that field.

-Pandamonium

-----Original Message-----
From: patch-barra...@googlegroups.com [mailto:patch-barra...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mathew Swenson
Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2018 10:54 AM
To: patch-barra...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Rule questions

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Ok, we have 50 minutes to parse the rules before game time. Everyone should take this time to read a short snippet of the rules, out of context, and then come prepared to assert your position in the middle of the game.

Legislate on, my friends.

On Wed, Oct 10, 2018 at 9:35 AM Aaron Manzo <aaron....@gmail.com < Caution-mailto:aaron....@gmail.com > > wrote:


After the first email in this thread, I had the same thought as Matthew. Schlagel would tear up if he saw this email discussion. Hahaha.

Also, who dared to challenge Colby the Frisbarian's reign?

As for me, I enjoy the rules discussions too, as I tend to err on the side of never calling a foul against me because I'm not totally clear on the rules.

My example would be when Blane and I collided in the endzone. My interpretation of that one would be by rule of verticality I would have been able to call a foul as he came into the space I was occupying. However, I could also see it as we were both vying for unoccupied space maybe since we were both running for the disc.

I say we hire refs for Tuesday and Thursdays. hahaha. Problem solved!

On Tue, Oct 9, 2018 at 5:46 PM Mathew Swenson <mjbsw...@gmail.com < Caution-mailto:mjbsw...@gmail.com > > wrote:


I agree with Blaine that there has been a lot more contact recently, and some of it is definitely due to having so many people on the field. Should we consider doing 7v 7 and having a few folks on the side? We could rotate every point (or couple of points). It would be up to the team to keep it equitable that folks are getting roughly equal playing tim, i.e., even the best players would have to sit out a couple points, you can't just rotate the new guys in/out.

In a typical game, most folks would miss 2 points. Thoughts?

On Tue, Oct 9, 2018 at 4:29 PM Woodard, Frankie B (Blane) SMSgt USAF DISA EU (US) <frankie.b....@mail.mil < Caution-mailto:frankie.b....@mail.mil > > wrote:


Below is what I am talkingabout.



Receiving Fouls:

1. If a player contacts an opponent while the disc is in the air and thereby interferes with that opponent's attempt to make a play on the disc, that player has committed a receiving foul. Some amount of incidental contact before, during, or immediately after the attempt often is unavoidable and is not a foul.

2. If XVI.C.2.b < Caution-https://www.usaultimate.org/resources/officiating/rules/11th_edition_rules.aspx#XVI.C.2.b > .1 of the continuation rule applies: if the call is uncontested, the fouled player gains possession at the spot on the playing field closest to the spot of the infraction. If the foulis contested, the disc reverts to the thrower.

3. The Principle of Verticality: All players have the right to enter the air space immediately above their torso to make a play on a thrown disc. If non-incidental contact occurs in the airspace immediately above a player before the outcome of the play is determined (e.g., before possessionis gained or an incomplete pass is effected), it is a foul on the player entering the vertical space of the other player .





The big thing is there has been a lot of contact lately due to a combination of new folks and congestion on the field and we need to establish what contact fouls are. Do we say that everything is fair if both players are trying to catch the disc, or do we say that the defender must at least hit part of the disc? Either way, I don’t like seeing things like last week when Colby was running across the field and someone threw a blatant shoulder into him as he was running by. On today’s play, the disc did hit me in the hands as contact was made, not sure if Adam hit the disc or not but I do know that he was not intentionally trying to hit me.



Blane





From: patch-barra...@googlegroups.com < Caution-mailto:patch-barra...@googlegroups.com > <patch-barra...@googlegroups.com < Caution-mailto:patch-barra...@googlegroups.com > > On Behalf Of Colby Holland
Sent: Tuesday, October 9, 2018 3:20 PM
To: patch-barra...@googlegroups.com < Caution-mailto:patch-barra...@googlegroups.com >
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Rule questions



All active links contained in this email were disabled. Please verify the identity of the sender, and confirm the authenticity of all links contained within the message prior to copying and pasting the address to a Web browser.

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Just read this in the rule book. Not totally sure if this is what we saw between Blaine and Adam, but it would seem to me to be so:

Fouls (II.E < Caution-Caution-https://www.usaultimate.org/resources/officiating/rules/11th_edition_rules.aspx#II.E < Caution-https://www.usaultimate.org/resources/officiating/rules/11th_edition_rules.aspx#II.E > > ): It is the responsibility of all players to avoid contact in every way possible .

1. A foul can be called only by the fouled player and must be announced by loudly calling foul immediately after it occurs.

2. Contact resulting from adjacent opposing players simultaneously vying for the same unoccupied position, is not in itself a foul.

3. Some fouls carry some extra provisions, as listed below.

a. Throwing Fouls:

1. A throwing foul may be called when there is non-incidental contact between the thrower andmarker . The disc in a thrower's possession is considered part of the thrower.

2. In general, any contact between the thrower and the extended (i.e., away from the midline of the body) arms or legs of a marker is a foul on the marker, unless the contacted area of the marker is completely stationary and in a legal position.

3. Any contact that occurs due to the marker setting up in an illegal position (XIV.B.3 < Caution-Caution-https://www.usaultimate.org/resources/officiating/rules/11th_edition_rules.aspx#XIV.B.3 < Caution-https://www.usaultimate.org/resources/officiating/rules/11th_edition_rules.aspx#XIV.B.3 > > ) is a foul on the marker. Once the marker has set up in a legal marking position, it is the responsibility of both players to respect this legal position. However, contact resulting from the thrower and the marker both vying for the same unoccupied position is a foul on the marker.

4. Any contact initiated by a thrower with the body (excluding arms and legs extended from the midline of the body) of a legally positioned (XIV.B.3 < Caution-Caution-https://www.usaultimate.org/resources/officiating/rules/11th_edition_rules.aspx#XIV.B.3 < Caution-https://www.usaultimate.org/resources/officiating/rules/11th_edition_rules.aspx#XIV.B.3 > > ) marker is a foul on the thrower.

5. Although it should be avoided whenever possible, incidental contact occurring during the follow-through (after the disc is released) is not a foul .

6. Any references above to a marker also apply to any defensive player within three meters of the thrower's pivot.

Caution-Caution-https://www.usaultimate.org/resources/officiating/rules/11th_edition_rules.aspx < Caution-https://www.usaultimate.org/resources/officiating/rules/11th_edition_rules.aspx > < Caution-Caution-https://www.usaultimate.org/resources/officiating/rules/11th_edition_rules.aspx < Caution-https://www.usaultimate.org/resources/officiating/rules/11th_edition_rules.aspx > >

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[Mathew Swenson]

Will there be a special screening today of "Disc Wars, Ep IX: Return of the Lobber?"