Sailing a P40 on Mainsail Alone, Heaving To
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Ian Macrae
Nov 27, 2010, 11:02:30 PM11/27/10
to Passport Owners
I was reading John Kretschmer's review of the P40 in Sailing Magazine
and noticed that he said: "A sloop rig was standard, although almost
all boats have been fitted with a staysail stay, usually the removable
type. Part of the original design objective was to allow the boat to
be sailed under main alone and be easily sailed singlehanded."
http://www.sailingmagazine.net/boats/6-used-boat-notebook/523-passport-40
Is there any truth to the statement about a design objective having
been to sail under the main alone? And if so, when would you want to
do that and why? Running down wind, but why not with something flying
up front, too?
How many of you guys have some sort of staysail stay rigged, and can
you describe the rigging? Perry said the boat wasn't designed to
carry a staysail.....
Secondly, what configuration of sail works best for heaving to in a
P40? I'm going to go out into Banderas Bay and experiment tomorrow,
but here I am this evening, wondering....... Hopefully the weather
guys calling for some wind tomorrow will be right.
Ian
and noticed that he said: "A sloop rig was standard, although almost
all boats have been fitted with a staysail stay, usually the removable
type. Part of the original design objective was to allow the boat to
be sailed under main alone and be easily sailed singlehanded."
http://www.sailingmagazine.net/boats/6-used-boat-notebook/523-passport-40
Is there any truth to the statement about a design objective having
been to sail under the main alone? And if so, when would you want to
do that and why? Running down wind, but why not with something flying
up front, too?
How many of you guys have some sort of staysail stay rigged, and can
you describe the rigging? Perry said the boat wasn't designed to
carry a staysail.....
Secondly, what configuration of sail works best for heaving to in a
P40? I'm going to go out into Banderas Bay and experiment tomorrow,
but here I am this evening, wondering....... Hopefully the weather
guys calling for some wind tomorrow will be right.
Ian
Jon Ash
Nov 28, 2010, 7:25:39 AM11/28/10
to Ian Macrae, Passport Owners
When caribbean soul heaves to we just tack and don't touch the working jib
sheet. Seems to work with a 110 or 135 headsail. I put a innerforestay on
for upwind sailing in 23 + kts of wind. 110 on head stay and working jib on
innerforestay. I use kevlar rings to hold a snatch block for sheeting the
110. the innerforestay is attached to a knee bolted to the bulkhead at the
chainlocker. the stay lives at the shrouds when not in use.Also useful for a
storm jib. Photos Available.
sheet. Seems to work with a 110 or 135 headsail. I put a innerforestay on
for upwind sailing in 23 + kts of wind. 110 on head stay and working jib on
innerforestay. I use kevlar rings to hold a snatch block for sheeting the
110. the innerforestay is attached to a knee bolted to the bulkhead at the
chainlocker. the stay lives at the shrouds when not in use.Also useful for a
storm jib. Photos Available.
good luck
fair winds
caribbean soul
Jim Melton
Nov 28, 2010, 1:37:49 PM11/28/10
to Jon Ash, Ian Macrae, Passport Owners
Jon,
That's helpful information to me as well. I would be very interested
to see pics of the innerforestay deck hardware as well as of the
knee/etc in the chainlocker, as well as where you attach that snatch block.
Thanks!
Jim
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Bill Schmidt
Nov 28, 2010, 10:04:15 PM11/28/10
to Jon Ash, Jim Melton, Ian Macrae, Passport Owners
Great pictures, Jon! Do you use running backstays when using the inner
staysail in heavy weather? The picture of the underside of the deck fitting
for the inner staysail tack gives me apprehension....many people have this
plate connected to a turnbuckle which courses downward to attach to the
stem - the problem being that it courses through the toilet bowl or through
the forward bunk, depending on the boat! The "local logic" is that your
setup will cause the foredeck to rip off in a storm (which I never have
heard of). Comments?
Billy Manana, Wind Witch P40 # 53 (no inner staysail ever rigged).
staysail in heavy weather? The picture of the underside of the deck fitting
for the inner staysail tack gives me apprehension....many people have this
plate connected to a turnbuckle which courses downward to attach to the
stem - the problem being that it courses through the toilet bowl or through
the forward bunk, depending on the boat! The "local logic" is that your
setup will cause the foredeck to rip off in a storm (which I never have
heard of). Comments?
Billy Manana, Wind Witch P40 # 53 (no inner staysail ever rigged).
Bill Morrison
Nov 29, 2010, 1:40:26 PM11/29/10
to versin...@gmail.com, passpor...@googlegroups.com
Ian,,I am in Melaque...fuel and engine problemss...might be more then away for 3 weeks...your questions are exactly what Iwant to know.
Cheers from Mexico!
Where you go,there you are.
William S. Morrison
Passport 40, "Fai Yin".
"VE7-XYU"
> Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2010 20:02:30 -0800
> Subject: [Passport] Sailing a P40 on Mainsail Alone, Heaving To
> From: versin...@gmail.com
> To: Passpor...@googlegroups.com
Cheers from Mexico!
Where you go,there you are.
William S. Morrison
Passport 40, "Fai Yin".
"VE7-XYU"
> Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2010 20:02:30 -0800
> Subject: [Passport] Sailing a P40 on Mainsail Alone, Heaving To
> From: versin...@gmail.com
> To: Passpor...@googlegroups.com
Michael Moradzadeh
Nov 29, 2010, 1:55:12 PM11/29/10
to Bill Morrison, versin...@gmail.com, passpor...@googlegroups.com
I've found that Cayenne (P40, sloop rig, no staysail) heaves to very nicely using the simple method described above, just tacking without moving the sheets.
Generally, she'll continue to move forward at a knot or two, but will be a very stable platform to sit and sort things out on, or have lunch, or wait for a storm to pass, or go up the mast.
I've done this with everything from a 95% to a 155%, though the boat is better behaved with the smaller sail.
Of course, the sailmaker loves the amount of chafe this does on the larger sails, but better a little chafe than the alternative.
Generally, she'll continue to move forward at a knot or two, but will be a very stable platform to sit and sort things out on, or have lunch, or wait for a storm to pass, or go up the mast.
I've done this with everything from a 95% to a 155%, though the boat is better behaved with the smaller sail.
Of course, the sailmaker loves the amount of chafe this does on the larger sails, but better a little chafe than the alternative.
rhp...@verizon.net
Nov 29, 2010, 2:08:41 PM11/29/10
to Michael Moradzadeh, passpor...@googlegroups.com, Bill Morrison, versin...@gmail.com
Anthem is sloop rigged.
To heave to, we use the same technique as others, sheet the main to leeward, reef the genny to a comfortable size and sheet it to windward (or tack it). Works great.
I initially planned to install an inner stay, but have yet to see the need. Admittedly, my sailing on Anthem has been coastal, never more than 40 knots.
Bob Peahl
Anthem P40-70
To heave to, we use the same technique as others, sheet the main to leeward, reef the genny to a comfortable size and sheet it to windward (or tack it). Works great.
I initially planned to install an inner stay, but have yet to see the need. Admittedly, my sailing on Anthem has been coastal, never more than 40 knots.
Bob Peahl
Anthem P40-70
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
From: Michael Moradzadeh <cayen...@gmail.com>
Sender: passpor...@googlegroups.com
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 10:55:12 -0800
To: Bill Morrison<billmo...@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Passport] Sailing a P40 on Mainsail Alone, Heaving To
Ian Macrae
Dec 2, 2010, 10:18:50 AM12/2/10
to Passport Owners
Jon, thanks for the great pictures and description of your staysail
rigging!
Bill, bummer, man...... Do you have a specific diagnosis of your fuel/
engine problem yet? Can you could make it into the Barra lagoon to
its more sheltered anchorage? Hopefully just a little dirty fuel, eh?
My original question asked about Kretschmer's statement that the boat
was designed for sailing "under mainsail alone". Any ideas about what
he was talking about? Why and when would a person want to do this in
a P40? Just a sort of "ease of handling while going downwind" thing?
I played with heaving to a couple of days ago, but with only 15 knots
of wind I don't think the boat was reacting the same way it might with
more of a breeze.
Ian
rigging!
Bill, bummer, man...... Do you have a specific diagnosis of your fuel/
engine problem yet? Can you could make it into the Barra lagoon to
its more sheltered anchorage? Hopefully just a little dirty fuel, eh?
My original question asked about Kretschmer's statement that the boat
was designed for sailing "under mainsail alone". Any ideas about what
he was talking about? Why and when would a person want to do this in
a P40? Just a sort of "ease of handling while going downwind" thing?
I played with heaving to a couple of days ago, but with only 15 knots
of wind I don't think the boat was reacting the same way it might with
more of a breeze.
Ian
Donal Botkin
Dec 2, 2010, 10:54:12 AM12/2/10
to Ian Macrae, Passport Owners
View[+]Finder here.
Sailing under main alone is not something that is enjoyable on a P40; sailing with just the jib (roller-furling) is pure pleasure. Both upwind and down, easy to rig and stow with no boom to whack the crew. My boat balances the helm nicely in winds of up to 25kts with 150 jib, furled to suit wind. 'Nuf said.
Heaving-to comes in two flavors: when you want and when you need. My experience with the latter was two days of 40+ between New Zealand and Tonga. With a backed storm jib as the staysail and main double-reefed, we made about 2kts to weather (pointed to Tonga) with the helm lashed midships and the autopilot off! Seas were above the lower spreader with much spray, but not dangerously breaking. I wouldn't want to do this every day, but down below was comfortable. Note that it was impossible to keep watch as there was nothing visible beyond about a boat length and not much that could have been done anyway. NZ to Tonga is not an area with ship traffic and I used the radar periodically, but sea clutter was max.
Sailing under main alone is not something that is enjoyable on a P40; sailing with just the jib (roller-furling) is pure pleasure. Both upwind and down, easy to rig and stow with no boom to whack the crew. My boat balances the helm nicely in winds of up to 25kts with 150 jib, furled to suit wind. 'Nuf said.
Heaving-to comes in two flavors: when you want and when you need. My experience with the latter was two days of 40+ between New Zealand and Tonga. With a backed storm jib as the staysail and main double-reefed, we made about 2kts to weather (pointed to Tonga) with the helm lashed midships and the autopilot off! Seas were above the lower spreader with much spray, but not dangerously breaking. I wouldn't want to do this every day, but down below was comfortable. Note that it was impossible to keep watch as there was nothing visible beyond about a boat length and not much that could have been done anyway. NZ to Tonga is not an area with ship traffic and I used the radar periodically, but sea clutter was max.
The "want to" version of heaving-to is nice if one wants to stop for a while, but has nothing in common with the other kind but the backed sail. Some headway is necessary to maintain steerage, of course.
View[ + ]Finder
Donal Botkin
1 Peninsula Rd, Gate-B
Belvedere, CA. 94920
Michael
Dec 2, 2010, 11:15:22 AM12/2/10
to Passpor...@googlegroups.com
Gotta agree with Donal here. Sure, you can sail under main alone, but
under jib alone is only a knot slower that both, and points surprisingly
well, if you MUST point.
under jib alone is only a knot slower that both, and points surprisingly
well, if you MUST point.
Another remarkable combination is 155% + reefed main on a reach. Huge
performance and easy management in a big blow.
Michael
Ernie Reuter
Dec 2, 2010, 11:20:33 AM12/2/10
to Donal Botkin, Ian Macrae, Passport Owners
Great information and well stated Donal.....thanks for help.
Ernie
S/V Iemanja
BTV
Louis Raphael
Dec 2, 2010, 7:25:22 PM12/2/10
to Passport Owners
Thom Wagner once told me that the P40 heaves to best under mainsail alone.
Louis Raphael
Ian Macrae
Dec 2, 2010, 11:07:09 PM12/2/10
to Passport Owners
Great input from all of you. Thanks, Donal. And Louis, I'll try
following Wanger's suggestion and see what happens.
Nice to think of the concepts of "155%" and "easy management" and "big
blow" in the same sentence! That sounds like some good fun.
Ian
following Wanger's suggestion and see what happens.
Nice to think of the concepts of "155%" and "easy management" and "big
blow" in the same sentence! That sounds like some good fun.
Ian
Bill Schmidt
Dec 2, 2010, 11:33:36 PM12/2/10
to Louis Raphael, Passport Owners
In my opinion, the Passport 40 under mainsail alone sails and heaves to
(both) like a half sunk bathtub going sideways.
(both) like a half sunk bathtub going sideways.
Ian Macrae
Dec 11, 2010, 9:53:56 AM12/11/10
to Passport Owners
Well, so much for John Kretschmer's review of the P40 in Sailing
Magazine saying how great sailing with the mainsail alone is!
However, I tried heaving to the other day and it seemed to work best
with only a double reefed mainsail. This assumes that the best result
is the one urged by Lin and Larry Pardy - essentially stopping in your
tracks rather than making some forward progress (which sorta sounds
like how a half sunken bath tub would behave). I only had 15 knots of
wind to play with, however, so will try with the backed head sail when
I get a chance with more wind.
Ian
P40
Magazine saying how great sailing with the mainsail alone is!
However, I tried heaving to the other day and it seemed to work best
with only a double reefed mainsail. This assumes that the best result
is the one urged by Lin and Larry Pardy - essentially stopping in your
tracks rather than making some forward progress (which sorta sounds
like how a half sunken bath tub would behave). I only had 15 knots of
wind to play with, however, so will try with the backed head sail when
I get a chance with more wind.
Ian
P40
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