Dyneema Rigging

[David Pawley]

Hi, My boat has the original rig so its 1990, my insurance is not covering the rig if I cannot prove its less than 10yo.. The only rigger in town happens to be enthusiastic about Dyneema and is pushing me in that direction, My insurance company has no problem with it. Only issue is the price increase.

Further details are I intended changing the inner forestay to Dyneema to aid disconnect, and apparently as I have a profurl on the forestay, this must remain Stainless steel. 

Your thoughts on this change is encouraged. Thanks

[John Baudendistel]

My personal opinion is that it's a cruising boat and designed as such.  Sunlight deteriorates most all  synthetics.  I'm confident in stainless rigging as designed.  Too many things to go wrong with chafe, sun, etc for anything else.  Just an opinion.  

John

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[psherwood]

I agree totally. Also, David, what town are you in? Not Seattle, surely.
Riggers abound here.

Phil

On Wed 3/1/17 20:11, John Baudendistel wrote:
> My personal opinion is that it's a cruising boat and designed as such.
> Sunlight deteriorates most all synthetics. I'm confident in stainless
> rigging as designed. Too many things to go wrong with chafe, sun, etc
> for anything else. Just an opinion.
>
>
> John
>
>
> On Mar 1, 2017, at 7:39 PM, David Pawley <paw...@gmail.com

> <mailto:paw...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>> Hi, My boat has the original rig so its 1990, my insurance is not
>> covering the rig if I cannot prove its less than 10yo.. The only
>> rigger in town happens to be enthusiastic about Dyneema and is pushing
>> me in that direction, My insurance company has no problem with it.
>> Only issue is the price increase.
>>
>> Further details are I intended changing the inner forestay to Dyneema
>> to aid disconnect, and apparently as I have a profurl on the forestay,
>> this must remain Stainless steel.
>> Your thoughts on this change is encouraged. Thanks
>>
>> --
>> --
>> Passport Owners Association http://passportyachts.org
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[Michael Moradzadeh]

Steel is the way to go.  These boats were designed for that.  The mast is a big massive thing, and the relative weight savings you'd get from dyneema are minimal.

Plus, if you get a lot less stretch (as the dyneema promises) you put pressure on the boat.  I've seen rod rigging pull the knees up through the deck of one boat.  Steel rope.

Dang, I feel like a curmndgeon

Michael

EX-Cayenne

Now racing a Santa Cruz 50

On Wed, Mar 1, 2017 at 8:11 PM, John Baudendistel <jo...@ets247.com> wrote:

My personal opinion is that it's a cruising boat and designed as such.  Sunlight deteriorates most all  synthetics.  I'm confident in stainless rigging as designed.  Too many things to go wrong with chafe, sun, etc for anything else.  Just an opinion.  

John

On Mar 1, 2017, at 7:39 PM, David Pawley <paw...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi, My boat has the original rig so its 1990, my insurance is not covering the rig if I cannot prove its less than 10yo.. The only rigger in town happens to be enthusiastic about Dyneema and is pushing me in that direction, My insurance company has no problem with it. Only issue is the price increase.

Further details are I intended changing the inner forestay to Dyneema to aid disconnect, and apparently as I have a profurl on the forestay, this must remain Stainless steel. 

Your thoughts on this change is encouraged. Thanks

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[Marty McOmber]

I too am considering Dyneema (or similar). Had a number of discussion with rigger Brion Toss (I'm from Seattle, so he is local and a great guy to boot) who is also a fan of considering hi-mod fiber rigging. The cost differential shouldn't be much -- he figured it was maybe 15 percent more. There are pros and cons. I like the ability to do most of the work myself.  But I'm also pretty conservative when it comes to the boat, so may chicken out in the end.  I did upgrade my chainplates to titanium.   I'll be writing about that on my website threesheetsnw.com soon -- wanted to have a season or two with them before I did that.

On Thu, Mar 2, 2017 at 6:51 AM, Michael Moradzadeh <mic...@yachtpc.com> wrote:

Steel is the way to go.  These boats were designed for that.  The mast is a big massive thing, and the relative weight savings you'd get from dyneema are minimal.

Plus, if you get a lot less stretch (as the dyneema promises) you put pressure on the boat.  I've seen rod rigging pull the knees up through the deck of one boat.  Steel rope.

Dang, I feel like a curmndgeon

Michael

EX-Cayenne

Now racing a Santa Cruz 50

On Wed, Mar 1, 2017 at 8:11 PM, John Baudendistel <jo...@ets247.com> wrote:

My personal opinion is that it's a cruising boat and designed as such.  Sunlight deteriorates most all  synthetics.  I'm confident in stainless rigging as designed.  Too many things to go wrong with chafe, sun, etc for anything else.  Just an opinion.  

John

On Mar 1, 2017, at 7:39 PM, David Pawley <paw...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi, My boat has the original rig so its 1990, my insurance is not covering the rig if I cannot prove its less than 10yo.. The only rigger in town happens to be enthusiastic about Dyneema and is pushing me in that direction, My insurance company has no problem with it. Only issue is the price increase.

Further details are I intended changing the inner forestay to Dyneema to aid disconnect, and apparently as I have a profurl on the forestay, this must remain Stainless steel. 

Your thoughts on this change is encouraged. Thanks

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Marty McOmber 

Editor

Three Sheets Northwest 

Local boating news, community and resources for the Pacific Northwest

 

Follow us @

Facebook.com/threesheetsnw

Twitter.com/ThreeSheetsNW

 

206-335-9263

[David Pawley]

My boat "Sierra" is in Cairns, Qld, Aus. not to many riggers around, but he did say he would do it with me, so that I increase my understanding.

[gw62469]

When we bought our P42 in 2006 the topping lift needed replacement and I went with Dyneema at the suggestion of the folks at Fisheries Supply.  It still looks good, except the nylon thimble in my eye splice has distorted, but I will replace it soon anyway to be conservative.  Next, I would consider Dyneema for the inner forestay because it would be easier to remove and stow on the mast.  I'm still on the fence about the other rigging, but willing to be convinced if/when I need to replace it. 

Gary Wilson

P42 Sidetrack

Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: Marty McOmber <ma...@threesheetsnw.com>
Date: 3/2/17 9:03 AM (GMT-08:00)
To: Michael Moradzadeh <mic...@yachtpc.com>
Cc: John Baudendistel <jo...@ets247.com>, David Pawley <paw...@gmail.com>, Passport Owners <Passpor...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Passport] Dyneema Rigging

I too am considering Dyneema (or similar). Had a number of discussion with rigger Brion Toss (I'm from Seattle, so he is local and a great guy to boot) who is also a fan of considering hi-mod fiber rigging. The cost differential shouldn't be much -- he figured it was maybe 15 percent more. There are pros and cons. I like the ability to do most of the work myself.  But I'm also pretty conservative when it comes to the boat, so may chicken out in the end.  I did upgrade my chainplates to titanium.   I'll be writing about that on my website threesheetsnw.com soon -- wanted to have a season or two with them before I did that.

On Thu, Mar 2, 2017 at 6:51 AM, Michael Moradzadeh <mic...@yachtpc.com> wrote:

Steel is the way to go.  These boats were designed for that.  The mast is a big massive thing, and the relative weight savings you'd get from dyneema are minimal.

Plus, if you get a lot less stretch (as the dyneema promises) you put pressure on the boat.  I've seen rod rigging pull the knees up through the deck of one boat.  Steel rope.

Dang, I feel like a curmndgeon

Michael

EX-Cayenne

Now racing a Santa Cruz 50

On Wed, Mar 1, 2017 at 8:11 PM, John Baudendistel <jo...@ets247.com> wrote:

My personal opinion is that it's a cruising boat and designed as such.  Sunlight deteriorates most all  synthetics.  I'm confident in stainless rigging as designed.  Too many things to go wrong with chafe, sun, etc for anything else.  Just an opinion.  

John

On Mar 1, 2017, at 7:39 PM, David Pawley <paw...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi, My boat has the original rig so its 1990, my insurance is not covering the rig if I cannot prove its less than 10yo.. The only rigger in town happens to be enthusiastic about Dyneema and is pushing me in that direction, My insurance company has no problem with it. Only issue is the price increase.

Further details are I intended changing the inner forestay to Dyneema to aid disconnect, and apparently as I have a profurl on the forestay, this must remain Stainless steel. 

Your thoughts on this change is encouraged. Thanks

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[Rob Raymond]

I've been thinking about installing an removable inner stay or solent stay for a storm jib. Solent being preferred since I assume I wouldn't need running back stays if the stay terminates near the top of the mast. I wonder how Dyneema would hold up to a hank on sail. Would there be special low chafe hanks specifically for Dyneema?

--

Marty McOmber 

Editor

Three Sheets Northwest 

Local boating news, community and resources for the Pacific Northwest

 

Follow us @

Facebook.com/threesheetsnw

Twitter.com/ThreeSheetsNW

 

206-335-9263

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[Marty McOmber]

Use soft shackles and make sure the dyneema is a covered braid?

[Gary Wilson]

I have read that Dyneema hanks would be required.  A company in Grover Beach, CA (Colligo Marine) has some technical info on their website.

[Jim Henerberry]

Passporters,

I'm also in for some standing rigging replacement this season.  My main issue is the cap shrouds right now, so I did some research and found a guy who did a full synthetic replacement on a 45 footer and found his boat heals half as much in twice the wind speed.  

See here:  https://www.riggingdoctor.com/life-aboard/2015/8/10/synthetic-rigging-conversion

So, I did some calculations to see if he could be telling the truth or exaggerating.  I found that two 50' cap shrouds in stainless (just the wire) weigh approximately 21 lbs.  The same amount of 9mm Dyneema weighs in at 4.1 lbs.  I'm sure a marine eye vs the light thimble at the top would also be a weight savings.

I've got a call into Colligo Marine (http://www.colligomarine.com  check out the "Rig Builder" button at the top right of the screen) to check on what size Dyneema would be right for the P40.  If the 9mm will work, they can build a shroud (minus the turnbuckle) for around $650.  That's just about twice what it would cost me to do it in stainless 1x19 using HiMod mechanical fittings (and wouldn't you know it, I've already bought a full set of HiMod rods to go into the tops of the turnbuckles--I'll be happy to pass them on for half their original price to anyone staying with the 1x19 if I make the switch).

Does anyone know your exact pin-to-pin cap shroud length?  My boat is under cover up hear in Massachusetts at the moment, but I may take the cover off early this year to get this project rolling.

Anyway, I'm getting excited about the possibilities and will fill you all in once I hear back from Colligo.

Jim Henerberry

1987 P40 Lottie B, #123