P40 Diesel Tank - Port Side

[Kevin]

Several years ago I had to replace the starboard diesel tank on my 1983 P40 when a leak developed on a bottom weld. Not fun, but at the time I was just thankful it wasn’t the port tank. Yeah, you know where this is going...

I found diesel in the space under the companionway ladder, in the area where some P40s have a battery bank. I can also see some wicking of diesel up the wood on the port side just aft of the door to the area under the cockpit.  It’s a slow seep - 24 hours after I clean it up there’s a dampness in the area - but it is definitely  a leak.

Now, what to do?  Seems I’ve three options:

1.  Live with it and keep cleaning up the seepage, hoping it won’t worsen (ha!);

2.  Empty the tank and stop using it;

3.  Replace the tank.

Anyone else have experience with this problem, and if yes how did you tackle it?  Any suggestions are welcome.

Kevin Muilman 

[John Baudendistel]

Kevin,

Check in with Eva Tanner of Bellavia who replaced both tanks.  Go in and cut out the old.  Then have a new one made about an inch smaller.  I don’t recall Eva’s material choice.  Messy job but doable.

John

On Jan 22, 2021, at 9:36 AM, Kevin <casic...@gmail.com> wrote:

Several years ago I had to replace the starboard diesel tank on my 1983 P40 when a leak developed on a bottom weld. Not fun, but at the time I was just thankful it wasn’t the port tank. Yeah, you know where this is going...

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[Dean Jones P40 112 Local Talent]

If you can reach / find / see the leak, JB Weld -a 2 part epoxy works well to seal the leak.  I used it on my starboard fuel tank and it's been holding up for 5 years now.  I could reach the problem area from inside the access port.  Otherwise...

Dean Jones

Local Talent #112

[Michael Gordon]

We have the same problem on Pangaea.  We spent two seasons in French Polynesia without the port tank, carrying 30 gallons in gerry cans on the deck to manage the large distances in the south pacific.  When we got to New Zealand I wanted to find some one to cut the old one out and build a new one.  Good boat smiths are in high demand in NZ, so I opted to seal all of the bottom corners of the tank with an epoxy metal repair (NZ JB weld). Then I mixed up and slightly thinned West Systems epoxy and covered the bottom of the tank with it.  I push the West Systems epoxy all around in the corners and let in settle in.  

We travelled home to Denver in January of 2019 to take care of our aging parents.  Then Covid hit us and we have not been able to get back to New Zealand.  I haven't been able to fill the tank to know it the fix worked.  Maybe next year I can let you know.  

Please let me know how you fix your tank.

[Kenyon Stewart]

I would personally suggest something that stays more flexible than an epoxy.  I used a sealant designed to seal the wings of aircraft to create fuel tanks.

https://www.skygeek.com/fuel-tank-fuselage-sealants.html

Kenyon

S/V Outbound

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[Marty McOmber]

Hi Kenyon,

We have some pitting in our fuel tanks (low corner where water might have collected in the past). So I'm interested in this fix. Can you tell us which specific product you used, how long ago it was applied, and how it has held up?

I'm leaning toward a replacement of our starboard tank as that is fairly easy to remove (however, I have learned the hard way that it actually doesn't fit through the finished companionway).  But something like a sealant might work great for the port tank, which as others have suggested would be a much bigger bear to wrestle.  

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[Kenyon Stewart]

We had some pitting too in the bottom of the tank where water had sat and a fairly large hole in one of the corners.  So I first had used JB weld to patch the known hole in the corner where I could stick a screwdriver through.  I was worried about longevity because the tank is the one in the keel with both sides glassed to the hull so likely to flex and work some.

I used two different 3M products, I'm not sure exactly which ones they were. I think the letter is for viscosity with A being the thinner and B being thicker.

The first was thick like a caulk which i used to seal all the seams like this:

https://www.skygeek.com/3m-aerospace-ac-236-class-b-non-sag-polysulfide-fuel-tank-sealant.html

The second was a bit thinner, brushable, but self levelling which I used to coat the insides.

https://www.skygeek.com/3m-aerospace-ac-350-a-2-gray-sealant-2-oz-kit.html

Also, I could only get to one side of the tank because of the baffle, so I had to cut a hole in the top and add an inspection plate to the other side.

I still want to do my other tanks at some point as a preemptive solution.

Kenyon

[Jeff and Jane Woodward]

Hello all,

I understand the desire to attempt repairs rather than replace failed fuel tanks.  And I won't try to dissuade your attempts.  But I will tell how we replaced both fuel tanks in Adagio.

We were cruising the west coast of Mexico and experienced fuel line clogging due to rust in the tanks.  We thought (or hoped) we could just clear the clogged fuel lines, have the fuel polished and be on our merry way.  But during the fuel polishing exercise we noted the size and number of rust particles.  We quickly realized that we could probably go forward with the plan to clean the lines, polish the fuel, and be on our way.  But the root of the problem would remain and grow.  So, we bit the bullet and made a permanent fix rather than live with a ticking time bomb.

Each tank presented separate problems.

To remove the port tank, we had to have the port cockpit locker cut out.  This sounds scarier than it ended up being.  Not for the faint of heart for sure, but a competent yard with skilled fiberglass workers can replace the locker in such a way that the repair becomes invisible.  Once the locker is cut away, the tank lifted out easily even with all sorts of equipment installed right up against the tank.  The tank was tabbed to the hull with fiberglass.  The tabbing was easily cut.

The starboard tank was actually more difficult.  The tank comes out from under the quarter berth with minimal effort. The problem is that the tank will not fit out the companionway.  So it had to be cut into pieces to fit.  And since the old tank would not fit going out, a new tank the same size and shape will not fit going back in.  We solved this problem by building two tanks as explained below. 

We used the old tanks as patterns for the new tanks, and we used fiberglass and epoxy to build them.  All materials were specked to be compatible with diesel.  We hope that these materials will be a permanent fix and avoid the problems of black iron, stainless steel, and aluminum.  Time will tell.  We are five years down the line.  So far all is well.  

The port tank was a twin of the old tank.  The new starboard tank was built in two sections.  Each tank was as long as the original, but half as wide and connected together with 1-1/2" elbows and fuel hose at the bottom of the tanks.  This allowed us to use the original deck fuel fill and engine fuel supply lines.  The outboard tank is always higher than the inboard tank because it follows the shape of the hull.  So, fuel flows through the elbows at the bottom of the tanks to equalize the fuel levels in each tank. 

We had to move off the boat during the repairs.  We also had to be careful to protect the inverter, refrigeration, auto pilot and other items in the "man cave" from fiberglass dust.  Basically wrapped each item in plastic.  While the tanks were out, we took advantage of the access to do some clean up, some painting, and some other work that was impossible with the tanks in place.

From start to finish the job took about a month.

We hope this is useful information to the fleet.

Jeff and Jane Woodward

Adagio, P-40 #109, 1986

Boat on the hard in San Carlos, Mexico/  Crew waiting out COVID in Portland, OR

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From: passpor...@googlegroups.com <passpor...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Marty McOmber <mmco...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2021 11:00 AM
To: Kenyon Stewart <ken...@sailoutbound.com>
Cc: Michael Gordon <alpine.d...@gmail.com>; Passport Owners <Passpor...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Passport] P40 Diesel Tank - Port Side

 

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[Michael Gordon]

Jeff and Jane,

This is very helpful, thank you!  Our leak in the port tank is a small pin hole, I could not even find it.  In a perfect world with unlimited funds I would do just as you described, replace both tanks.  So the big debate is will my epoxy fix get me through the next five years?  Maybe, maybe not...

Mike

[Kevin]

After 18 months of trying to ignore the decrepit port tank and mulling over the approaches other Passport owners have shared (thank you all), I decided to take the plunge and deal with the now-empty-but-useless port diesel tank.  The two paths to port tank bliss mentioned by others were:  A) cut through the cockpit area to access the tank; B) dismantle the aft end of the galley.  Given my pocketbook this needed to be a DIY job, and based on my skill set both solutions gave me some sleepless nights.

Based on my constraints (money and skills) I decided to cut the old tank out from under the cockpit in pieces that would fit through the cave’s accessway, and replace it with the largest new tank I can fit back through the accessway.  Cutting the old tank out was not difficult, but it was miserable.  My wife stayed out of earshot as much as possible, and I’m pretty sure that some neighbors consider me less civilized than before I started.  Regardless, it is out.  I tried to keep the pieces as large as possible to be able to use them as templates for the new tank’s bottom, since the hull’s slope will be the most difficult part to fabricate accurately.

The new tank will have less tankage, but since the aft end of the original tank tapers back as the beam narrows, I think I’ll be able to keep about 70% of the old tank’s capacity by building it to fit in athwartship, taking advantage of the fact that the forward end of the tank is the largest.   Since I installed a more efficient engine and prop a couple of years back, I hope I’ll not lose much motoring range by giving up the gallons of diesel (I’m rationalizing, so please don’t clip my wings).

The task now it to have a new tank built, which involves some design decisions.  Most are straightforward, but a couple are elusive and any thoughts will be appreciated.

1.      The old tank was glassed into place, not ideal when keeping moisture off the tank is critical to avoiding pit corrosion.  I’m thinking about having flanges welded onto several points along the new tank and bolting the tank down (glass or use 5600 to put G10/Coosa board against hull/base as anchor points for bolts).  I can manage this for six of the eight corners, but the last two are not accessible when the tank in is place.  Will this matter much?  

2.     Since the tank’s low point will be readily accessible is it worth having a petcock installed to be able to check for/drain water?  Obviously, every additional hole is another possible leak, but getting water out of the tank any other way will be a PITA.

3.     The old tank had no baffles and one access port on top, accessible through the aft cabinet in the galley.   I’m leaning to one baffle in the new tank and two access ports, but they will have to be high up on the side of the tank to be useful.  Everything I’ve read tells me that this is not uncommon and that properly built, will not leak.  Thoughts?

As usual I appreciate the time and insights of this group.

Kevin Muilman

Casi Cielo, 1983 P40

[Marty McOmber]

Thanks for sharing! This is a project we haven’t needed to do yet, but we are probably going to replace the starboard tank this winter as I’ve found some pitting in the low point and want to have at least one reliable tank.  

Here’s a great resource on fuel tanks. Steve D’Anotnio is a well-respected systems guy and has great info on his site, especially fuel and corrosion issues. And he shares a great deal of knowledge.  

This post on fuel tanks and cleaning will be invaluable in your tank design: https://stevedmarineconsulting.com/cleaning-diesel-tanks/

In fact, just search his site under “fuel tanks” and you will get a lot of really good information to help in your design and installation.  

I subscribe to his free newsletter and it is one of the few that has a lot of value and is definitely worth your time. 

Hope that helps. 

Marty McOmber

Sent from my iPad

On Jul 25, 2022, at 11:54 AM, Kevin <casic...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Kevin]

Here are a couple of pics of the new tank installed.  It's about 30 gallons, the largest I could manage to get through the access under the cockpit.

Kevin

 

[Kenyon Stewart]

That's a really nice looking installation Kevin, great work!

Kenyon

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[JEAN-MARC ARCANGELI]

Sent from my iPad

On 28 Jan 2023, at 04:23, Kevin <casic...@gmail.com> wrote:

Here are a couple of pics of the new tank installed.  It's about 30 gallons, the largest I could manage to get through the access under the cockpit.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/PassportOwners/15b30a32-02bb-4854-b9c1-886583b8085fn%40googlegroups.com.