Bilge Pump Specs

[Chris - Pelican]

Hi All -

Just opened up Pelican (P40 #76) after the Winter and the primary bilge pump seems to have died. We don't see ANY markings on it to determine what kind it is or model info (pump + separate switch). Does anyone know, generally, if this was a highly customized item on P40's or if most P40's have a common bilge outlet size and pump size (gph). Any recommendations for replacement units before I start my research?

Thanks!

Chris

Pelican 1984 P40 #76

[Rob Raymond]

We have a Rule 3700 in the bilge on our P40. I also put a union in the hose near the top of the bilge so the pump can be taken out for service without wrestling with the hose.

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[John Baudendistel]

Generally speaking they might have a rule 2800-3200 GPh  pump,  usually with a flipper float switch mounted to a piece of fiberglass board which sinks.  I removed the board and have mine such that I can remove either the pump or the switch.    I’ve put in a aqua alarm switch with a connection which pumps another 20 seconds to empty the hose after the float disconnects.  Look at the ID of your hose and purchase accordingly.  I put a SS splice in my discharge hose, so I can pull the pump and service it.  I like the round West Marine Water Witch switches.  I mount mine on an alum 1” wide stick to pull out.  So leave an extra 5’ if bilge wire on the float and pump, So you can pull them up for service.  It is not if but when they will fail. And how easy it will be to access them.   I get about 10 years and running out of the Water witches. They are also oil Resistant and clog proof.  Because nothing can get under the float switch.   The aqua alarm also has wiring included for a high water alarm circuit.  My .05 cents worth.

John B 

Dream Keeper P 42

On May 24, 2020, at 2:08 PM, Rob Raymond <wind...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Ernie Reuter]

We’ve used rigid pvc for our plumbing throughout Iemanja. The bilge is no exception. There are no odors, the rigid pipe provides a nice solid attachment to the pump which can be used to pull the pump up and out of the deep well for service. At the top we have a separating union which when separated provides easy servicing. We do convert to flexible hose to get to the thru hull but only at the last logical location. Has worked very well for us.

The float switch is also on a long aluminum extension.....3’ or so....to allow it to be pulled out for service.

Ernie on Iemanja 

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[Bill Schmidt]

One of the real joys of Passport ownership, which I have written about before, is the episode where you hang your head inside the cabinet over the transmission, inhaling the delightful aromas of the putrefying bilge contents while trying to extract that greasy/grimy stiff hose and the corroded wiring of the pump and float switch.And then there's the fun of grasping that god awful mounting plate, only to have it slip from your hands and splash back down into the bilge showering your face with excrement.

    Are you with me so far? Don't know what I'm talking about? We don't have a bilge pump, nor a bilge float switch down there on Wind Witch.And haven't for over 20 years. The only thing in the bilge is a plastic hose strainer and a Groco bilge "diving bell (also plastic). The pump is mounted above the engine in the engine compartment, as is a diaphragm pump switch. The pump is a 3000 gph commercial water pump which can suck start a diesel (Yanmar of course). The pump, pump switch, all the wiring and even the impellor are serviceable with your head held high and no nose clip in place.

    I'm just saying....

Billy Manana

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[Guilherme Salgado]

I'm a bit confused as to why you have a diaphragm switch in this setup. Shouldn't the diving bell (I assume it's a pressure switch) switch the pump on and off?

[William Ennis]

Hello,

The Johnson 2200gph pump comes with a back-flow flapper valve that prevents a problem that our P40 has had for years.  The pump trips from the bilge switch, the water fills the hose overboard, and when the pump quits, the water in the hose can, on occasion, re-trip the pump.  We’ve lost more than one pump this way:  the water keeps recycling.  The Johnson flapper prevents the problem.  It’s a large capacity pump that’s well made.

We also use an Ultra Junior pump switch which attaches to the pump:  Good switch, well fabricated.

With our Beta engine, it’s impossible to service, or even see, the bilge pump without removing an exhaust hose.  We can neither see it nor remove it.  We decided to get the best stuff we could and think that it’ll survive.

Bill

1984 P40

"Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies."  Friedrich Nietzsche

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[Donal Botkin]

Hello POA,

During View[+]Finder conversion to electric motor + generator in 2018, the yard reworked the water-lift muffler and the anti-siphon tank in the upper cabinet. We also took the opportunity to review the bilge pump situation, beginning with “why have one?” Two reasons: normal and emergency. One pump cannot deal with both, hence the complaints about ‘cycling’ and check valves. 

I have two pumps now: the original pump mounted about a foot (30cm) above the bottom of the deep bilge and a diaphragm pump (positive displacement) with its suction strainer/float switch at the bottom of the deep bilge. Now if there is a little water in the bilge, the PD pump sucks it out; if a lot of water—as from a hole in the boat—the centrifugal pump kicks in to deal with the flood.  

Problem solved.

View[+]Finder

Donal B. Botkin

556 Shagbark St

Windsor, CA  95492

415 497-5411

On Oct 6, 2022, at 10:05, William Ennis <benn...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hello,

The Johnson 2200 gph pump comes with a back-flow flapper valve that prevents a problem that our P40 has had for years.  The pump trips from the bilge switch, the water fills the hose overboard, and when the pump quits, the water in the hose can, on occasion, re-trip the pump.  We’ve lost more than one pump this way:  the water keeps recycling.  The Johnson flapper prevents the problem.  It’s a large capacity pump that’s well made.

We also use an Ultra Junior pump switch which attaches to the pump:  Good switch, well fabricated.

With our Beta engine, it’s impossible to service, or even see, the bilge pump without removing an exhaust hose.  We can neither see it nor remove it.  We decided to get the best stuff we could and think that it’ll survive.

Bill

1984 P40

"Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies."  Friedrich Nietzsche

On Oct 6, 2022, at 8:53 AM, Guilherme Salgado <gsal...@gmail.com> wrote:

I'm a bit confused as to why you have a diaphragm switch in this setup. Shouldn't the diving bell (I assume it's a pressure switch) switch the pump on and off?

On Monday, 25 May 2020 at 12:12:41 UTC-5 Billy Manana wrote:

One of the real joys of Passport ownership, which I have written about before, is the episode where you hang your head inside the cabinet over the transmission, inhaling the delightful aromas of the putrefying bilge contents while trying to extract that greasy/grimy stiff hose and the corroded wiring of the pump and float switch.And then there's the fun of grasping that god awful mounting plate, only to have it slip from your hands and splash back down into the bilge showering your face with excrement.

    Are you with me so far? Don't know what I'm talking about? We don't have a bilge pump, nor a bilge float switch down there on Wind Witch.And haven't for over 20 years. The only thing in the bilge is a plastic hose strainer and a Groco bilge "diving bell (also plastic). The pump is mounted above the engine in the engine compartment, as is a diaphragm pump switch. The pump is a 3000 gph commercial water pump which can suck start a diesel (Yanmar of course). The pump, pump switch, all the wiring and even the impeller are serviceable with your head held high and no nose clip in place.

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[Kenyon Stewart]

I like it Donal!  I am reworking the bilge pumps on Outbound this winter and we will actually have 3 pumps.  The "primary" pump already has a 1" starboard riser under it to keep it out of the bilge water.  Then we have a Whale diaphragm pump that mostly empties the bottom of the bilge.  I'm adding the "emergency" pump which is mounted on a nice little shelf that our boat has above where the ballast is glassed in about three feet up from the bottom of the bilge, just under the front of the engine.  I am considering wiring the emergency pump switch with a Dreamkeeper style "Oh Shit" alarm so that everybody within 100 yards will hear it when it goes off.  The hard part is figuring out where to run the hose for the large emergency pump...

Kenyon

S/V Outbound

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[Bill Schmidt]

The "bell" is simply a plastic cup with a spigot on the bottom. A plastic tube attaches to the spigot and then to the diaphragm switch out of the bilge. That switch is an off/on switch which activates the pump. The whole idea is to get all mechanical/electrical stuff out of the bilge area. The bell is mounted bottom up to a plate (wooden/plastic ) which rests at the bottom of the bilge. The hose strainer is also mounted to the plate.Water collecting in the bilge creates pressure in the bell and activates the switch. The bell is mounted such that it is about 2" higher on the plate than the strainer.This allows the pump to easily prime itself with water when activated...much faster.

b.

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[Jeremy Dinsel]

Silly question -- but would anyone mind sharing a few pictures of their bilge pump setup?

[Keith York]

   Jeremy - I'm going to post some pictures of what I'm ABOUT to do. If anyone has serious concerns about this setup let me know.  

My boat P40 hull # 129, formally Cynosure soon to be Papasierra, had one automatic bilge pump and the whale gusher in the cockpit.  The automatic pump was a high volume (3700 I think but there are no markings) located in the deep bilge that I was only able to remove because I'm in the yard and we pulled the propeller shaft.  When I removed it all of the wires fell out of it.  Scary.  I, like Billy Manana, choose not to go through that again so I've pulled the 1.5" pipe out of the deep bilge and dropped a 3/4" pipe with a strainer and an independent float down there.  That 3/4" pipe will be attached to a Jabsco 36600 belt driven pump installed in the port side cabinetry just under the water lift muffler. Easy to access and maintain as needed.  Picture #1.  I'm going to run the outbound 3/4" pipe through a new vented loop (not installed yet) just next to the 1.5" loop from the old setup and out a new through hull.  Picture #2 (excuse all the extra hose - I'm still in process).  That will be my primary.  It's only a 480 GPM pump but the fact that it sits outside of the bilge makes me very happy.

I'm also installing a new high water, high volume secondary pump, a Rule 3700 automatic, with an alarm that will sound if/when it comes on, in  a spot forward of the engine next to the sump pump.  I have run a new 1.5" hose from there, under the engine (Pictures 3 and 4 - I'll tidy up the hose run) and into the old vented loop and existing through hull that the old pump used, also in the cabinet next to the water lift muffler. Picture 2 again.  So essentially both pump outlets will be next to each other and right next to the exhaust.  I feel much better about having 2 pumps and about being able to easily access and service both of them.   The only thing down in the hole will be a hose and a float.

Y'all let me know your thoughts.

[Donal Botkin]

Hello Keith,

Jabsco 36600 belt driven pump? There are alternatives. You will learn to hate the Jabsco. View[+]Finder had one for potable water and it was  the first thing to be replaced. The Loran stayed longer.

I have a positive displacement diaphragm pump for the bilge to do the easy work and a centrifugal pump for emergencies. {see earlier post} The ‘lite’ bump is mounted in the space under the sink for ease of access. You could buy several for the price of the Jabsco.

Just sayin’

Donal

View[+]Finder

Donal B. Botkin

556 Shagbark St

Windsor, CA  95492

415 497-5411

[Bill Schmidt]

I couldn't have said it better myself.

Billy Manana

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[Brenton Piercy]

On this setup did you run the diaphragm pump to a separate thru hull or did you run it into the line that's the exhaust and bilge (on Perla this is how it is at least). I'm adding in a diaphragm pump as a way to get out the last bits of water like you mentioned and will be plumbing it into the same outlet as the 2000gph centrifugal pump just below the anti-siphon section on the discharge end so that it won't backflow into the big pump. 

[Dave J]

I purchased my 1986 Passport 40 last spring and, for all practical purposes, it is a very fine boat.  I have spent a considerable amount of money updating everything I think I need for a circumnavigation, but at every turn, there is something else to deal with.  My most recent "black hole" is the bilge pump. Normally on the Passport, the pump is very difficult to access. Mine, however, is additionally complicated by a new engine installed a few years before I bought her.  The  myriad of hoses and pipes under the transmission makes it almost impossible for me to get to it.  Using a wire hook, I have managed to retrieve the old bilge pump (which I don't think has worked in many years) and will replace it with a new one.  Following the plumbing diagram, I have located the 2  inch evacuation hose and where it exits the boat. Unless I'm mistaken, there is a metal object in the line that I believe is a back flow preventer.  Since it is impossible for me to access the start of the hose, I am contemplating cutting the hose before the back flow preventer and using  a reducing coupling to join the 1 1/4 inch bilge pump hose to the 2 inch hose. Then, using the smaller hose as a handle, I intend to lower the new pump in place at the bottom of the sump hole.  I hope this makes sense, but I would welcome any advice from members who have weathered this task. 

[Bill Schmidt]

Well, I was going to refer you to my prior diatribe about bilges and pumps, but I see you already have that epistle. For the life of me I cannot understand why any reasonable, intelligent person would want to put a replacement pump back in the bilge of a Passport 40. I stand on my prior remarks. BTW, the setup on Wind Witch still works great.

Billy Manana

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[Kenyon Stewart]

For the bottom of the bilge, you could always put one of these. I would still add a bigger pump that sits up somewhere dry with an alarm hooked to it.

Kenyon

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