Am I misunderstanding the point of this group?
TwoSpirits
group. Is it to point at those with PA and tell them how wrong they
are? How sick they are? To try to change a behavior that was developed
as a way to protect ourselves when we were at the most impressionable?
For those who claim experience in the psychology field, you know that
your personality is set by the time you are 5-6 years of age. That PA,
for most, is a part of us by then. We spend the rest of our lives
learning to deal with it, which is a life long process.
I am a PA and that bad little disorder has protected me through many
dangerous life experiences (drug dealing, being homeless, biker
lifestyle, alcoholism). I do accept the consequences of my choices and
do the best I can. Yes, I have problems with authority figures, So?
Could I learn ways to adapt? Sure and I do, to a point.
But... I also learned through life that I like myself. I'm a good man
and if I cannot be accepted as I am, those who cannot accept me can
shut up or move on. The idea that I would have to change to make my
wife happy, is ridiculous. I keep reading about PA's needing to accept
responsibility for their choices. What about those who spend years
with us and then leave because they FINALLY decided to quit trying to
change us? We were who you married long before you knew us and YOU
married us. Did you think you would have more luck than the best
psychologists?
I do believe that any person, PA's included, should strive to do their
best but that "best" should not be dictated by others because then you
are trying to do their best. Don't beat yourself up because you didn't
get it right everytime (and you know you do).
And for those who have encountered PA's and left unsatisfied, look
inside for the issue, not at them. Who was it who kept you in that
relationship so long? How about accepting responsibility for your own
behavior?
So, if I am mistaken and this group is not for PA's to have a place to
vent and feel safe and is just another place to point at the PA and
say "Ewwwww" then I am out of here.
Alan Howard
are you being passive aggressive in trying to find a way to avoid dealing, so you blame others for creating something that you've perceived, to give yourself an excuse to back out?
:)
TwoSpirits
responses to those with PA so the logic of your response leaves me
scratching my head. You haven't noticed the trend of people "finding
out" about PA and how they've either pointed out how "it's been hell"
or other such reactions to those with PA or they beat themselves up
for having developed PA?
Am I being passive aggressive in trying to do something? Again, are
you kidding? You make it sound like something you can intentionally
do. I don't need an excuse to do anything and there's nothing to back
out of. So, I'm really not getting what you are trying to say.
You did miss the point of my post anyway. I wanted to know what the
point of this group is. I thought it might be a place where PA's can
be around those who understand them because they are "there" too. So
far, I haven't seen it so maybe I am in the wrong place. It's not an
attack, just an observation.
Howard, Alan
Passive aggression is a trait that is shared by everyone at some stage of their life, but in quite a few people it's a disorder because it significantly and negatively impacts their life. A lot of PAs don't even realise they have it, but those who do and are looking for others to share with, well, that's what this group is for.
I've found a lot of information about PA which suggests those who have it as a personality disorder never get over it. I'm not sure how true that is. It's a behavioural pattern, usually programmed into us by our childhood experiences. Like any behaviour, it can be modified.
However, I think the issue of passive aggression often works against those who suffer from it and are trying to look for a fix, especially since PA consists of procrastination, self-denial, avoidance of responsibility, etc etc. Those traits really don't help the PA make the decision to do something, to accept they have an issue, and to accept responsibility for their behaviour.
I'm trying to do that, but it's incredibly hard. It's easy to say 'just make different choices', but when you're in the heat of an emotion and pre-programmed patterns, clear thinking and conscious choice-making is not something that comes easy...
So I hoped this group would be a means by which others who suffer PA can share their experiences, their frustrations, their anger, and even their solutions to help themselves and others overcome the negative patterns.
Does that help?
In order for this group to be successful in its purpose, it needs everyone (where possible) to discuss their experiences with passive aggression (either as a sufferer of it, or as someone who is affected by someone with it) and get out in the open those things that frustrate and upset them. I've tried to do that a few times, but I get little response or participation from the other members, so I just wait for this to become a little busier.
I know you weren't attacking, and I was being silly about trying to find a PA reason for your comments. My apologies to you. Maybe I was being a little PA myself... :)
Cheers
Alan
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TwoSpirits
I've been seeing shrinks off and on since I was 11 years old and they
have spent years trying to put a label and its attendent traits and
manifestations on me. During all that time, I never thought of myself
as "suffering" (at least from PA). Now, I do understand that one can't
truly label a teen since their personality is still in flux but then
so is the field of psychology as well as societal norms.
The reason I still question the term "suffering" is that while I agree
that most PA's (such as myself) have the traits of Procrastination,
Self-Denial and Avoidance of Responsibility, those are also the tools
we learned to use as ways to achieve our goals. I know it sounds weird
and one normally doesn't look at those as good qualities but, looking
at it from my point of view, my thought processes tend to say "wait a
little, maybe they really want it done some other way and will change
their mind." If I wait (called procrastinating) until the very last
minute, then I know for sure it isn't going to change and then I won't
look stupid for doing it wrong.
That type of thinking is definitely birthed from being brought up in
fear of failure. In my childhood, if you failed you were beaten
severely. But do I still think like that? Not consciously. That fear
of failure is still there and sometimes I do fall into old behavior as
a means to an end (one tends to do what they know works). In my case,
most of my behavior traits started as fear-based responses.
Now, I'm a big ol' boy and sadly, many people tend to react to me out
of fear. I try to not foster it and have changed my appearance, my way
of talking and even tried to change the way I walk but, regardless
what I try, whatever it is that causes that fear is ingrained. At
first, I created that persona as a way to protect myself in the
lifestyle I live. I have finally gotten others to be honest with me
because I tire of people hiding their true feelings. Having done
hidden my feelings all my life, I know it sucks.
I do not think there is a cure for PA because many times those traits
still serve us well so we keep them locked up but available, just in
case. But one can gain tools that help face life on life's terms. Most
importantly, don't beat yourself up for developing PA...you had to.
But the past is over. For those who choose to be with us, understand
that we are who we are. There was some reason you chose one of us.
Focus on that. If you can't, move on. No big deal. But if you try to
force us to change, prepare for a very long battle which you most
likely will lose. After all, another trait of PA's is that we are
pretty smart and are quick-thinkers.
Alan Howard
And yes, I want to change it. I'm not happy that I sabotage the relationships in my life. I'm not happy that I screw things up for myself with my work. I'm not happy that I prevent my own success because of some screwed up attitudes that developed to protect myself as a child.
I'm not a child any more, and I have to face up to my responsibilities. There's no need to protect myself from those parents of mine who no longer are relevant in my life. All I'm doing is screwing up my life, and that's something that's in my control.
My own childhood had some severe beatings, just like yours. I never got broken bones or anything, but my mum had a horse strap, and when she was angry she didn't care which end she swung. I just remember cowering in corners and trying to protect myself from the flailing buckle. I used to be punished for expressing myself, for being angry or upset. I learnt that any form of expression was a punishable offence, and so I stopped being so expressive.
I've been the 'rebellious teenager' for about 25 years now. I really am sick of it, and I want to grow up.
I've had a few relationships in my life, with the last one being the longest, and that only lasted 3 years. I've been engaged twice now, and both the engagements were to women who had high expectations of me, which I failed to live up to. I set myself up for failure by choosing to be with and get engaged to women I could never be suitable for.
My last relationship was the most incredible one, and was my 2nd engagement. It ended only a few months ago. We still love each other, but I can't bring myself to be in a relationship with her. It was incredible because she's the only one who's come the closest to understanding me, and doing her best to accept me for who I am, but it didn't work. She had demands and expectations of me that I just couldn't satisfy, and I really didn't want to.
I've come to a point where I don't think I should be in any relationships for quite a while. I don't want to be tied down. I don't want someone expecting me to be a particular way, when I can't or don't want to be.
My life has been one of unhappiness, failure, denial and loneliness, all because of my behaviour and attitudes. You and many others might be happy with being PA because it still serves you, but for me, it's not serving me and never really has.
I'm over it, and I want to GET over it. That's the struggle I face, and I know it's not an easy one. I've come a long way in the past 2 years, but there's such a long way still to go.
Sorry for rambling, there's a lot inside of me trying to be expressed, and I'm not so sure how to express it...
Alan