Rescue vs. Buy

[mirletaliz]

Just wondering what people's opinions and experiences have been with
these methods of obtaining birds?

[GINGER]

Well for me either one works. Depending on the reason for the bird
being available for rehoming and the situation the bird would be in if
I didn't succeed in negotiations for a "free" bird, then other
conditions might make buying it an option if the birds' life is in
immediate danger.

Give you an example: Going on 3 years ago I ran across an ad in a
pennysaver paper, this guy advertised a cockatoo "with yellow under
its wings" (tells me the guy didn't even know what kind of cockatoo it
was; which meant he wasn't feeding it right, caring for it right and
probably didnt want to learn how either)... so I got to the guys'
house and before I got out of the car I hear it screaming. I am
familiar with that sound... it is a terribly alone and neglected
cockatoo- it was desperate for some attention... i was sure it was
terribly neglected emotionally, and it was at that moment I decided
whether I got the bird for free or had to pay for it, it was coming
home iwth me that night. We got inside, the bird is in a huge cage,
in good condition and a few decent toys... looking hard at the bird i
see its a female umbie; she is just turned 5 years old and already I
will be her 3rd home. How sad! Anyway, I tried to talk the guy's
price down, but it was already really low ($7oo) so I paid him and he
loaded the cage in the back of his pick up truck and we headed for my
house.. I knew that if i hesitated she would have been sold for less
to a breeder and it was easy to see this bird was never going to make
the transition to a breeder; she was entirely too dependent on humans
for companionship. I found out from her seller that he had bought her
from a 7o something old woman who bought her from some flea market
dealer, raised it to weaning and then discovered that the bird was
much too needy emotionally and sold it to this man who found the bird
entirely too demanding for his wife and himself; he is an airplane
mechanic and she is one of those "little furry yapping dog persons)
Either way it went the birds' needs weren't getting met and would
never be met with them.. So I paid them $ and home we went. the very
next morning I let her out of her cage and inside four hours she had
permitted me to pick her up and snuggle with her. I kept her two and
a half years until I found a perfect home for her, and gave her away
in January this year.

Back in November 08, I used fear to get this man to turn over his
moluccan too hen to me, supposedly this guy (a very well educated
"founder of several churches" performed what he called a "rescue" of
some 40 birds, three pair of B&Gs - an eclectus male- a "pair of
cockatoos", about 10 lutino lovebirds (paired) and a bunch of the
higher class of cockatiels. Here's how it happened... a woman I
bought a baby Quaker from told me she knew someone who had a bunch of
birds he wanted to sell.. he wanted $3000 for everything.. he was
moving and he gave her charge of the birds in trade for a few sun
conures he had and two pair of quaker breeders.... she was supposed
to sell the rest of them.

She knows I do rescue, I particularly look for the most abused,
neglected, hurt, mistreated and in greatest need birds... she sent me
a picture of this bird.. and when I got it it made me so mad and hurt
at the same time that I told her that he needs to give that bird up
to a rescue and NOW. Well the next day she called me and told me to
come & get her...I"d send you a picture with this email but it does
not appear possible... Anyway, a friend and I went there the next day
and I met this man who had the audacity to say that he bought all the
birds to "rescue" them..... and ALL of them were set up to
breed!!!!!!!!!!!!! There were pairs of birds there who had been
having clutch after clutch after clutch, all of them, macaws and ekkie
to the tiels -- all of them got seeds to eat. can you believe THAT????

Well I didn't spend much time on him... I was furious with him so much
that it was nearly impossible to keep my mouth shut... only the fear
that he would change his mind about giving me the bird kept me silent
and civil... The bird I'm talking about is a female Moluccan
Cockatoo, she is an obvious import, so she MUST be a minimum of 30
years old. Her "mate" of 10 YEARS is an umbrella, NOT dna'd "male"...
kept in north Florida outdoors winter / summer... no toys, one perch,
and it is obvious that she does not want to mate with this "male" that
I strongly suspected was a female... Anyway, the umbrella literally
pulled out all the feathers from her face , neck -back & front- her
coverlets on both wings, down to the tip of the breast bone, - there
was a QUARTER sized hole in her neck which he put in her because she
obviously did not want his/her friendship... starved, abused,
neglected, all but abandoned and treated so badly that it was just
about dead from neglect and depression... once i got the bird in the
truck and a few tiels for my friend who came with me, we hauled ass
out of there & I got the bird home and put some nice warm birdie
dinner in the cage with her... well she was totally terrified of
being inside, without the other bird and in close proximity to me...
so I just let her be pretty much covered and let her alone... when I
went to bed I uncovered her only to see if she had eaten anything...
To my amazed pleasure, she had eaten it ALL! (I had given her a large
portion because she is bigger than the macaws... and I thought that IF
she ate anything, i'd give her plenty to pick and choose - just in
case she was finicky) Now you need to know that cockatoos are
omnivores; they eat meat along with everything else... and I had given
her a pretty big chunk of venison and cooked carrot chunks, sweet
potato, peas, corn this & that... her crop was so full it was
distended! I really feared for her life... but I was satisfied that
at one time someone loved that bird - someone had once cared for her
and treated her good... and I made up my mind that I was going to be
that person again and give this poor girl the life she once had... and
since early November 08, I have done just that.

Now about paying and "free" birds, there is a good argument for both.
Everything depends on the birds' situation, if the people are
genuinely concerned for the birds welfare and are demanding $ because
they believe that paying for the bird would gurantee its good life
(which is absolutely NOT true!!!)... but if they are determined to put
the bird in a good home, - provided they KNOW what a good home IS...
then I won't swoop in and buy the bird... my money is very hard to
come by and by dropping a big chunk on a bird that is likely to get a
good home, I will let it go... But a bird like Cookie, my Moluccan
rescue, I would have paid thousands for her, IF i HAD it- just to save
her life and get her the hell away from there.

I claim to be a "rescue" but if I told the truth, I am not. Rescues
will "rescue" an animal, care for it and then find it as good a home
as is possible, charge a flat fee in most cases and with some
investigation and "rules of adoption" that each potential adoptee must
sign that says generally that they promise to care for the animal in
accordance to the rules set by the agency and promise that if for ANY
reason they cannot abide by this agreement, they must return the
animal back to the rescue... sometimes this works, sometimes it
doesnt, people lie. People cheat. Some "rescues" procure "free"
birds, turn around and SELL them as a "rescue", and couldn't care less
about the birds welfare, they are in it for the $. There are
thousands of animals, not just birds that go through shelters like
this... private homes, garages, sheds... back porches... some are
concerned about the animals and do go pretty far to care for the
animals, others don't care... and they are very difficult to go
through and find the good ones... We have to listen to our "gut"....
let keep your emotions in check and check out the facts, assess your
ability to deal with the problems this animal is going to come
with.... and if you can see that its going to need more veterinary
care than you can comfortably afford, WALK AWAY!!!! OR- go into debt
and pay thousands of dollars for a bird that is never going to pay you
back... but will give you so much satisfaction and good feelings to
save its life and find a "perfect" home for it after perhaps years of
time in your home... only to see it bond to a stranger.... and in your
heart you KNOW that if you don't let it go with them, you will then be
the "bad guy" in the birds' life.

At the moment, right now, I have 7 parrots here. NONE of them are up
for adoption, sale, trade, loan or anything. They are home. Some I
paid big dollars for, some were given to me for nothing. All of them
are not fit for adoption under ANY circumstances for one reason or
another... and a few of them are birds that I have developed an
intense bond with and will not consider letting them go for ANY
reason. There is no real answer to this question because each
individual situation is unique. Each animal or birds' needs MUST be
at the very top of the list, nothing can be above this! If the
"rescue/rescuer" has any OTHER priority over this then every effort
must be taken to prevent them from obtaining the animal.

I will definitely accept any bird that its owner has chosen to give
up, but because I have reached my financial limit with the ones I now
posess, I cannot and will not pay for any more birds... because if
they should require medical attention I havent got any money left to
pay for their care. I am presently at Zero balance with the vet and
feed store; I can pay for all the birds pellets, greens, fruits and
seed mixture that I put together myself according to the needs I know
my birds require... it leaves me with no cushion at the end of the
month now and to take on another animal or bird with this situation as
it is would be terribly wrong. But should I run across an animal in a
life or death situation I will surely take it in and deal with it...
but that might not be the right answer for you.
Ginger

[Liz Hiles]

WOW Ginger, thanks for the great response!  I definitely appreciate the examples....wish some other folks would reply too, for their opinions. I am undecided still....although I am not a novice bird person, I'm not an expert either, so I don't know how "damaged" or "neglected" I would be willing to invest in. Having witnessed the "pet world" for all of my life, I still find it utterly unbelievable at how many people spend so much time and energy on picking an animal for the animals aesthetics or owner-prestige only to find out that they can't deal with the animal at all and must get rid of it...then they "get rid of it" to over populated shelters OR to other irresponsible owners. What I find even more unbelievable is that there are "reputable breeders" who still don't screen homes and sell animals without contracts...especially without contracts with clauses that if for some reason, the buyer cannot maintain the animals' care, they come back to the breeder.  That's how my mother sold all her dogs and she honored that clause to the bitter end. I don't get why more breeders don't do that. And the ultra religious people tend to be worse pet owners than most it sometimes seems....funny how it works that way. I know what you mean about calling yourself a rescue and ending up to be an adoptive home...that's how our house was as well...it is rare that a rescue would come to our house and actually leave in a decent amount of time.  I think I would be a little better than my mother at it, but I would still be a finicky screener and would prefer adoption. I definitely appreciate your in put...and it does help give me a little direction for what I might consider in the future. ~Liz
"Everyone needs beauty...places to play in and pray in where nature may heal & cheer & give strength to the body & soul alike." ~John Muir

"Nobody can be exactly like me. Even I have trouble doing it." ~Tallulah Bankhead

“I always have to break a song over my back. … I just can’t sing a song; it has to be part of my marrow and bones and everything.” ~Libby Holman, Hughes HS Class of 1920

[Ginger]

I'll tell you about contracts, they have wonderful intentions but the bottom line is unless the one demanding the contract is honored has enough $ to take to court the buyer who breaks the contract, the contract is meaningless.  The only contract I ever ask people to sign is the give up contract.  Where they either give me their pet bird or sell it to me.  I will generally not offer anyone a contract to adopt a bird or pet, mostly because 99% of the people who sign them don't honor them and I don't have cash to chase them through the legal system.   Which is a BIG reason why I don't give up the "rescues" I have easily.   Something else, I am not able to take back any pets that people don't want; another reason to just rescue the ones I have, and keep them.  I DO rehome smaller birds more often because most people can cope with little birds much easier than the big birds.   What really bothers me is how many people actually believe that birds are as easy to live with as a dog or cat.  They actually act as if the bird should come running when they call it, or do tricks on command...(I HATE seeing birds do crap like that!!!)  I love my birds be birds!   Regarding "Christians" who are supposed to be leaders in "do it right", too often are the ones that all too loudly defend their poor ways of animal care.  I am a Christian, and believe me you can tell.  I don't have to puff up my chest and thump a bible at anyone.  While I live a clean life and only have "clean' friends- I don't judge people.  I DO judge their actions because actions speak louder than words...   I pay particular attention to how their children behave and how they treat their pets.  If there is no respect toward others, you can be sure there won't be kindness toward the pets either.  Those are the ones I don't even consider adoption to.  I've seen more ungodly people love their pets good than people I share pews with.    Our country is about to collapse because these same people are at peace in Zion, we should be out in the streets demanding honesty in our representatives, our bankers, our insurance carriers, our doctors, our PASTORS...  Our prez...  But everybody has their little comfort zone, they can see that the threat of takeover by the Muslims is at the door, but they got their heads stuck in sand up to their shoulders and got one heck of a case of denial going for themselves.  Our country is on the verge of collapse because we, each one of us has not rained our politicians in, we have not made them be honest, we pay them a lifetime pension for four or six years of their lives as a help themselves "servant" of the people, NOT!!!!  We did nothing when we saw them pay themselves huge gifts...  All we do is complain.  Our preachers hardly ever mention Hell or sin; when was the last time your pastor said the wages of sin is DEATH???  When did they warn you about lying, or stealing, or manipulating people to get something you cant get honestly...  If its like at my church, its been quite a while since you've heard mention about a God who demands His people to be "peculiar", and "different" from the "world"...  There is three generations of adults out here who don't really know God, they do not respect Him and they certainly don't "fear" him.    They don't care about others, they don't care about their partner, they will lie, steal, cheat, close their eyes when they see someone who is in desperate straits...  And then there's those who think others are supposed to support them while they lay around smoking, drinking, hooking up with a different partner every time or two...  Cant keep a job, refuse to be educated, dress like pigs... Act like they are better than everyone else, who would knock you in the head and steal everything you have on you if given the chance...  On disability, welfare, food stamps...  And they are more fit to earn their own living on a job than I am... Yet we are paying them to do nothing.   Is it any wonder the united states is in the mess its in? .. Ok getting off my soapbox now. Ginger   -------Original Message-------

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[Liz Hiles]

It sounds like you've had bad experiences with contracts. All my experiences have been good and I've been fortunate enough to have seen only good examples I guess. We would always have gone through with the legal actions, regardless, but have never had to actually follow through. I think some people I've known have had to threaten legal action, but that alone was enough for people to comply with their agreement. We were also in a position where we could always take back animals or had friends who could foster for us.

You are right...living with birds is different than living w/ dogs or cats. But I never saw an issue w/ training a bird to do things that they naturally do, or to respond to their name. Yes, we let them be birds, but we also wanted to interact with them as well.

As for the religious issues, I don't agree with all you said. I don't consider myself Christian and I have many friends, of many religions...including Muslim. Islam is not the problem and Muslims are not the enemy. Anyone who knows anything about the religion know that terrorism, hatred and violence are NOT what that religion (or any religion) is about. It is a few people that construe words to fit their purposes. I believe in a higher power, but choose not to name it...and I definitely would not fear a God that is supposed to be all-loving and all-forgiving.  I just try to live by the Golden Rule and be a positive person.  That's all I'll say on that. ~L!

"Everyone needs beauty...places to play in and pray in where nature may heal & cheer & give strength to the body & soul alike." ~John Muir

"Nobody can be exactly like me. Even I have trouble doing it." ~Tallulah Bankhead

“I always have to break a song over my back. … I just can’t sing a song; it has to be part of my marrow and bones and everything.” ~Libby Holman, Hughes HS Class of 1920