RE: [Paraglide Pakistan 348] Flight Season 2013

[robert van den ham]

Hi Oscar,
Things change constantly in Pakistan therefor it may be still to early to say what will be the situation in June. I would suggest you contact the Ministry of tourism of Pakistan in May for the latest updates and contact Sajjad shah, the president of the PAFF, Pakistan association for free flight, who can be of great help. It is worthwhile to try and fly to Gilgit but the service is often disrupted by bad weather. The cheapest option is the ,16 hour plus, bus ride. Make sure you are properly insured for medical evacuation. This means, contact your insurer and present them the scenario of a wounded pilot in a far of valley with only helicopter access. Remember that there is only military helicopters in Pakistan and that they will only help when the money is in the bank. Your insurer has to be able to tell you their plan and procedure and who is their agent in Pakistan. Get yourself a SPOT tracking device with the supplementary live tracking so everyone in your group  can always find out where everyone is. The mountains are big and it is easy to disappear for ever. Happy planning and enjoy your trip! Rob

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Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 08:41:12 -0800
From: finge...@gmail.com
To: paraglide...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [Paraglide Pakistan 348] Flight Season 2013

Hi you all, and thanks for all the information posted here in the past. It has been a great help. 

Anyway, some spanish pilots are planning a flight trip to Pakistan on June-July 2013. Any update regarding ban for tourism, curfew, and so on in the Gilgit - Hunza region? Any recommendation about which would be the best way to travel from Islamabad to Gilgit (bus or plane)?

Thanks in advance for the information and hope to see you soon in Pakistan.

Óscar 

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[Brendan Reid]

Hi Oscar,
If you go on the googlegroup web page and search for 'faq' there are contact details that you are looking for.   Have a great trip.
Bren

On Jan 14, 2013 9:20 PM, "Oscar López" <finge...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thank you very much for your response Rob. I'll follow your advices.

Have you got an email address from Mr. Shah? Which is the best way to get in touch with him?

Best regards

Óscar

[Burair Nazir]

Hi all,

I am a pakistani paragliding pilot and hopefully will be joining you this summer in hunza for flying too and look forward to learning from you guys.

Brenden has given the best link, and if you still have trouble we can always talk to help anyone having any issues to coordinate or hook up with PAFF ( pakistan association for free flying).

Look forward to seeing you all.

Burair
00 92 333 44 263 88

Regards
Burair

---

From: Brendan Reid <bren...@gmail.com>

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Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2013 01:50:34 +0000

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Subject: Re: [Paraglide Pakistan 352] Flight Season 2013

[Oscar López]

Hi all, it seems that things are moving, thanks Ezio, Bren and Burair for your replies!

 

In my humble opinion, the two main issues that may need coordination with local partners and may be more confusing for foreign pilots would be:

1. Insurance for helicopter rescue

2. Oxygen system rent

I have started to move this and I'll keep you updated about that. 

Best regards

Óscar

[john silvester]

Hi Oscar...

I would not worry about a tourism ban in Hunza since I have never known it happen before, but the KKH has been closed for a  week a couple of times in the last few years after shootings near Chilas. Usually the Gilgit airport has still been open, but even more busy. Booni wasn't closed to pilots last year, but did seem to have a small hassle factor which kept most pilots away and in Hunza.

Heli rescue can be organised through askari aviation http://www.askariaviation.com/  . It needs a heli bond of around $6000 deposited with them. Brad has called one out, and did say it wasn't 'clockwork'!  If there is a group of you it is probably worth organising. I have done the bond on my last 3 trips...but then back in the 80's I couldn't even afford insurance and never let it stop me going. Just dont have the accident!

If you really want to visit Hunza and Booni then don't see the above as a 'put off'. Once you are there it is the most hospitable country ever, and the rewards are immense in ever way. The best 'back up plan' usually involves the very resourceful locals. So use Manzoor as a driver (he can sort out almost everything) and talk to Sajjad and Jabbar of paff in 'pindi . In fact if the plane to gilgit isn't running the best way to get up to hunza is probably to hire a mini bus since it is the Shite public buses that seem to get shot at (or take a sunni bus!) . Mini buses are not too expensive, about £100- 170 to hire from pindi the last time i did it. Have used http://www.bluskytours.com/  who were great and efficient and cheap, and also sajjad's business Cox and Kings which is obviously a brilliant way to go, and is only a little more expensive because they usually want to break the 18hr drive at Chilas for the night, which will mean you get to drive during the day and get to see the best road trip going in daylight...it also has a safety element. But if you just want to get there quick, get the driver to leave pindi at 2 or 3am, (but arrange it the day before so he can sleep) do the boring bit from pindi in the dark, and have breakfast before dropping into the gorge where the 'dangerous' tribal areas are, and you should be well past Chilas before dark. 

It is never boring in pakistan!!!

Isn't that why we travel?

And the flying!!!!

have a good one

john

---

Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 08:41:12 -0800
From: finge...@gmail.com
To: paraglide...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [Paraglide Pakistan 348] Flight Season 2013

Hi you all, and thanks for all the information posted here in the past. It has been a great help. 

Anyway, some spanish pilots are planning a flight trip to Pakistan on June-July 2013. Any update regarding ban for tourism, curfew, and so on in the Gilgit - Hunza region? Any recommendation about which would be the best way to travel from Islamabad to Gilgit (bus or plane)?

Thanks in advance for the information and hope to see you soon in Pakistan.

Óscar 

--

[Burair Nazir]

Dear john,

I think no one could have said it better. Thanks for your great support of pakistan and its north which always welcomes with open arms any guests .

Cheers
Burair

Regards
Burair

---

From: john silvester <johns...@hotmail.com>

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Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2013 13:27:04 +0000

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Subject: RE: [Paraglide Pakistan 355] Flight Season 2013

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[Oscar López]

Dear John,

Thanks a lot for your reply. As you probably know you and your trips to Pakistan are a great source of inspiration to all of us, thus I really appreciate your message. : )

We really want to travel this year, so if no big difficulties come about we will spend a few weeks in Hunza and other flying sites. By the way, we are just two spanish pilots so far, so it's not a big group!

Regarding the heli, we can't afford the full bond, but once the travel dates approaches maybe we will try to coordinate with some other foreign pilots. This Google group seems to work fine for this. Stay tuned, guys! ; )

And talking about the bus transport, of course security is a big issue, so it sounds great to me to hire a mini bus, but I don't want to discard the plane option. Will see...

As you can imagine, there are hundreds of questions still to be answered, but I don't want to bore you or abuse from the kindness of all the members of the group. So, I will "do my job", reading blogs & posts, studying guides, maps, videos and so on (as I have been doing for weeks now, there is a lot of material on the net!) and will keep you updated of our plans. In parallel, any additional info or comments from you or other members of the group will be greatly appreciated!.

Blue skies!!

Óscar

paraglide-pakistan+unsub...@googlegroups.com

[IFTY]

Hi guys,

Hopefully I'll be travelling to Hunza in June or July from the UK so will probably be able to act as a fellow pilot and interpreter :). Cannot wait to fulfill my dream of flying in the Karakorum.

Regards
IFTY.

[Brendan Reid]

Great info John - thanks.

In summer 2011 the cost of a heli from Gilgit to Islamabad to rescue an injured pilot was $64,000.

No competition means Askari charge what they want.

From a remote valley, say Charpursan, it might be a lot more.

I don't think a $6000 dollar bond is much use anymore.

Maybe Brad has something to say on that.

The pilot got out after 3 days (was it only 3 days it seemed like a lifetime) on chartered jet arranged by his friends.

Rob's advice earlier in this thread about checking insurance stuff is very important....

a) who is your insurance company's agent is in Pakistan (they do have an agent in Pakistan, right???)

b) how fast can they transfer money to Pakistan.   2 days is not acceptable for someone in critical condition and the heli won't fly until the money arrives.

c) do they have a proper round the clock accident line who can take *medical* and *financial* decisions out of office hours (not just a message taker out of hours, very important when the clocks are very different for Pak and EU and office hours co-incide for a limited time each day)

If you do get in big trouble and nobody knows where you are (no GSM reception, no SPOT or sat phone), I hope you have made sure in advance that your parents won't sell their house to pay for 4 days of Askari heli time to look for you.     This would be worse than seeking a needle in a very large haystack and nothing more than a waste of money (and has happened a couple of times in Bir now).   

Sorry to be so morbid.

PG risks in Pak are just the same as mountains everywhere - more or less.   Like John says - just don't crash :)

Knowing you won't crash is a powerful placebo (personal opinion).

PG rewards in Pak are ... worth it

Bren 

[Jabbar Bhatti]

Hi,

 

You may contact Mr Sajjad Shah (President)  through PAFF at in...@paff.org.pk or only ask for any assistance from PAFF or call at +92 51 5529474, +92 300 8568568, +92 346 5120186.

 

Most welcome to Pakistani Skies!

 

Best regards.

 

Jabbar Bhatti  

[Brad Sander]

Good info all, thanks for your replies. To address 2 questions of Oscar

1) Oxygen- I have 7 systems to rent or sell that are stored in the PAFF office. They are Summit Oxygen and the advantage is if something breaks or needs replacing I have spares on hand in Islamabad to be shipped up to Chitral or Hunza within 1-2 days. Rental price is 200 euro. Buying price is 800 Euro. This includes use of manifold for filling. 

2) Helibond- I haven't figured out what to do this year. In the past I put up my money and shared the bond with whoever wanted and could prove they had insurance. Current bond is 10,000 USD. As Brenden points out Askari quoted 64,000 for a simple ride from the Airport in Gilgit to Islamabad in 2012 on an Mi-17. In 2008 the only time I used a helicopter having the bond in place was essential to getting the Helicopter to come in time. That year it cost 17,500 USD for a ride from Booni to Islamabad on Mi-17. 

With the increase in Askari's rates and the fact it's not guaranteed, for example you could ask for a ship and if it gets turned back due to weather you still pay the full rate quoted. The question is what value is the Bond at all? I've asked this myself a lot recently. Basically your buying the chance to speed things up should it be needed.  

Many mountaineering parties use the Helibond system through Askari, some don't. Any interesting example here.

http://dawn.com/2012/03/28/was-it-the-hidden-peak-that-killed-2/

Basically Askari has us over a barrel if we need a helicopter, and playing games with them can cost valuable time.

I suppose I would propose doing the same thing I've done the last few years. Someone puts up the 10k and everyone else pays for the service. Last year I charged $100 per pilot. This helps offset the cost of wire transfer and Askari's non refundable fee of $300. http://www.askariaviation.com/CharterRates/RescueBriefing.pdf

And I guess that's me putting up the 10k unless someone else would like to volunteer? Or has a better idea?

Brad

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[Oscar López]

Thanks to all for your replies. 

Brad, regarding your comments:

1) Oxygen. We are interested in renting two systems. Once we get the flying tickets I'll keep you updated about the final dates. One additional question: these Summit Oxygen are "pulse demand systems" or "continuous oxygen flow systems"?
2) Helibond. What an issue! Regarding Askari fees, it seems that if we "play their game" they will do whatever they want with the prices on incoming years, but of course not having their service available may be fatal... I don't have a clear opinion about that yet...  Now I am trying to figure out what's the precise cover of my current insurance. 

Keep talking. 

Best regards

Oscar

[Siraj Ulmulk]

Dear Brad
I am presently in UK. When I get back I shall look for alternatives to Askari Helicopters for you guys. Will let you know if I make any progress.
Regards
Siraj

Hindukush Heights Chitral www.hindukush.com.pk ph 03449700800, 03449700024

---

From: Oscar López <finge...@gmail.com>

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Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 02:57:19 -0800 (PST)

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ReplyTo: paraglide...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: [Paraglide Pakistan 363] Flight Season 2013

[robert van den ham]

Hi Oscar,
Be aware that one is not allowed oxygen bottles on the plane in Pakistan. You will have to get them couriered out to Karimabad. Brad will tell you how I guess.

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Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 02:57:19 -0800
From: finge...@gmail.com
To: paraglide...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: [Paraglide Pakistan 363] Flight Season 2013

[Ezio]

Hi Brad,

I will arrive in Islamabad Tue 04 June and stay for 8 weeks. I would be interested to rent one of your oxygen systems for the first few flights or so. 

Regarding the Helibond I want to check coverage of my insurance first, but as the Askari thing sounds quite shaky, I will probably follow John's advice (i.e. try not to crash).

Thank you for your most valuable information and support

Ezio

[Abm Faisal]

Hi all pilots. 

Im witness that every year pilots from paragliding world visit Pakistan to fly and every year we hear a new world record. Credit goes to all pilots from all continents. As in Pakistan security situation which is not stable and every year so many questions arises in the minds who r planing to visit Pakistan. 

As PAFF the official platform to help out visiting pilots. As well as so many local pilots in diffrent areas like chitral, gilgit, hunza etc,... Everyone is putting their share in their capacity. For wat everyone is doing .... " to promote this sport and to show the soft image of the country ". And im really thankful to all Foriegn pilots who visit Pakistan every year or visited once. I consider and own them as Pakistani Paragliding Community. They hav played a major role. 

I want to put my suggestion infront of all pilots and specially Sajjad Shah, Jabbar bhatti.

" as every year pilots from all over the world visit Pakistan and everyone fills the bond of Askari Aviation. If We all pilots raise a fund and all pilots comming to Pakistan put their share in it and collectively we deposit one or two bonds in askari aviation that in case of emergency this heli service can b provided to anyone. As it will not be a burdan on anyone and this will remain with askari aviation. As PAFF is already a platform. It will talk to askari aviation. And every year pilots comming to Pakistan will provide their names to paff and then paff will inform askari. 

What do u all say abt this suggestion????

 

Sent from my iPhone

--

[Ezio]

Hi Faisal,

 

I understood from the other posts, that it is not quite clear what you get from the Helibond and that Askari, being the only provider of such a service, can dictate it's conditions at will.

In that background your solution sounds brilliant to me, as

- PAFF, being a local organization has certainly a better negociating position and more negociating power than singles

- the bonds are shared among many more pilots making the service available and affordable for everyone

- as a consequence, the service will become more stable and predictable

 

Regards

Ezio

[Jabbar Bhatti]

Hi Ezio,

 

I believe where some advance is no harm on one side, on other side Askari Aviation plays being the only service provider.

 

On behalf of PAFF, I would request views of other pilots also, on ABM Faisal suggestion. I suggest pooling of an initial amount (Required deposit with Askari Aviation USD 10,000.00 or so) by pilots visiting this year, with a decided non refundable like Brad had already arranged and every pilot pays that amount for every visit (deducted from contribution or as fresh case). This arrangement shall be required only if Brad withdraws the facility.

 

I feel this way, pilots will have no unnecessary burdon. However pilots must be insured for accidents/evacuation.  This responsibility can be handled by Sajjad and his Company on behalf of PAFF if he agrees, like many other services he has been providing to pilots already.

 

Jabbar Bhatti

  

Ezio

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[Oscar López]

Dear friends,

Finally we get our visas yesterday. Soon we will update you about our trip plan, that will take place in July. : )

Best regards

Óscar

[grey hamilton]

Great news about your visa Oscar, best wishes for your epic flying to come!..cheers...Grey

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Date: Tue, 28 May 2013 01:15:01 -0700
From: finge...@gmail.com
To: paraglide...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [Paraglide Pakistan 396] Re: Flight Season 2013

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[Siraj Ulmulk]

Just for everyone's information foreign travellers to Chitral on a tourist visa no longer require an NOC (No Objection certificate) from the Pakistan Army to visit Chitral . Siraj

Hindukush Heights Chitral www.hindukush.com.pk ph 03449700800, 03449700024

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From: Oscar López <finge...@gmail.com>

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Date: Tue, 28 May 2013 01:15:01 -0700 (PDT)

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Subject: [Paraglide Pakistan 396] Re: Flight Season 2013

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[Dmitry Enkov]

Thanks Siraj
It's good news :)

[Abm Faisal]

Great news

Welcome to Pakistan air space

Pakistan association of free flying warmly welcomes

Cheers

Sent from my iPhone

[Oscar López]

Very good news! Thank you very much! : )

2013/5/29 Abm Faisal <abmf...@gmail.com>

[Oscar López]

Dear friends,

Regarding the terrible news about the climbers killed near Nanga Parbat, we are wondering about what impact could this make in our trip through the Northern Areas in July. Should we expect reduced mobility through the Northern areas? Whould it be advisable to avoid the KKH from Rawalpindi to Gilgit  (our initial plan) and travel by plane instead?... 

Although we have not decided to cancel our trip, we would really appreciate any information and update that you may find interesting for us. Please notice that our initial idea was to stay in Hunza as "base camp" but then try to fly (paragliding) and/or travel (car) to such far villages as Booni and Skardu.

Thanks in advance to all of you for your kind response.

Óscar

[ezio.s...@bluewin.ch]

hi oscar,

i have been flying on nanga parbat last friday (on the tareshing side) and have then moved to Hushe through
Deosai. So far I have not noticed any additional security measures or any particular problems.
The Bus trip from Pindi
to gilgit took me 24 hours due to additional police escorts, so I think it is still quite safe to travel the KKH.
For
sure, the plane option is the best. For Hunza, Skardu, Hushe i think that the security situatio has not changed.
Feel
free to call me on +92 313 523 14 85.
Hope this helps a bit.
Ezio

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Von:
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Datum: 24.06.2013 15:47
An: <paraglide...@googlegroups.com>
Betreff: [Paraglide Pakistan
404] Re: Flight Season 2013