Contests going away / redesign-part-two in progress

[Adam Lasnik]

After a lot of thought about our official Panoramio contests, we've made the tough decision to discontinue them.

Given all the great submissions this month, we'll certainly still have voting in October, and then the selection of the winners in November.  But after today (September 30th), we won't have any new official Panoramio contests starting for the foreseeable future.  We do welcome you to check out the unofficial contests initiated and run by members like you, however!

Note that our team has now processed all of your (awesome and detailed!) feedback on the recent redesign and is getting ready to make small but very important fixes and improvements.  Easier to read text, better photo thumbnail presentation, and more to come :).  Right before the re-redesign goes live, I'll post another announcement, sticky it, and also create another set of threads to get your further feedback.

Thanks much, and take care.

[Draken]

Thank you Adam for the information and your announcement regarding the re-redesign. I have translated your post in the Spanish forum.

[Adam Lasnik]

Thank YOU and the other moderators for your quick and constant help in supporting the community!

[Anaconda's Adventure]

Why has the contest discontinued? This is very sad.

[Adam Lasnik]

Many reasons.  As much as we all enjoyed a lot of the amazing imagery submitted...

• We saw declining participation over the years, to the point where even the winning photos had surprisingly very few votes
  
• Similarly, comparatively few people visited the contest page, despite it being a top-level option from the front page
  
• Lastly, though it wasn't a major deciding factor, we saw an increasing number of photos submitted that weren't taken by the person entering the photo, and this became quite frustrating for the majority of honorable participants
  

Luckily, it's still quite possible (and enjoyable!) to check out the awesome diversity and quality of photos shared by talented photographers... here on Panoramio, in Google Maps, in Google Earth, and so on :).

[Lady GooGoo La La]

The current contest is not workable because:

• too many entries
• too time consuming to view
• lots of poor photos
• dont allow portraits, ie GE accepted only
• ensure a voting user doesn't see the same photos (dont display same phot 2x to same user......use pseudo random selection.

Better to have an annual contest, 

• contestants can submit ONE photo
  
• maybe five categories........therefore may 1st, 2nd , 3rd winners in each category.
• users submit limited number of votes per category
• allow user to vote for one of 5 entries at log on, after user voted a predetermined number of times, no longer shown entries at log on, and  needn't show entries for every log on.
• Voting over an extended period of time....more votes the better.

Interesting to see how many entries....display final vote stats.

[Christos Theodorou]

I agree with you about the reasons that the current contest did not work at all. After fixing all the occured problems of the site last month, the team must think about a new version of contest.

 

My ideas about a new type of contest :

• Three standard categories of contest (Landscape & Scenery, Heritage & Art, People & Customs)
• Three winners (1st, 2nd, 3rd)
• Any submission to the contest to be dome between 1st - 5th day of every month. The submitted photos must be filtered by a group of Panoramio members (50 - 100 from every part of the world), if they are appropriate for the chosen category. Each member will propose up to 50 photos for each category, except his own photos.No-one must know the names or usernames of this group, except the central team. The members of this group must change every year.
• After this filter, the first 500 photos from each category will be nominated until the 25th day of the previous month, for the contest of next month.
• The contest page must show in each category 5 photos at the same size.
• During the contest each panoramio member to be able to vote only 50 photos in every category. The vote to be secret, with no possibility of message about it.
• The awards for the winners must also be generous (ex. 1st - camera dslr, 2nd - compact camera, 3rd - tripod or flash).

With the hope to have again a monthly contest more attractive than the previous,

 

Have a nice evening from Athens,

 

Christos

 

Τη Τρίτη, 1 Οκτωβρίου 2013 8:07:15 μ.μ. UTC+3, ο χρήστης Lady GooGoo La La έγραψε:

The current contest is not workable because:

• too many entries
• too time consuming to view
• lots of poor photos
• dont allow portraits, ie GE accepted only

• ensure a voting user doesn't see the same photos......use pseudo random selection.

Better to have an annual contest, 

• contestants can submit ONE photo
  
• maybe five categories........therefore may 1st, 2nd , 3rd winners in each category.
• users submit limited number of votes per category 

Interesting to see how many entries....display final vote stats.

On Tuesday, October 1, 2013 8:17:42 AM UTC+7, Adam Lasnik wrote:

[Draken]

Correct me if I am wrong but I am under the strongest impression the Team are by no means asking how to improve the contest. The decision has been made. There was a lot of discussions about how to improve the contest and very few admitted the contest was a failure. Now is too late. 

[Lady GooGoo La La]

You're wrong!    〔ツ〕 

Not only did you not ask me, but by the way, how am I to assess the contest when I have no statistical data to work with?

I'll forgive you this time....since you weren't informed.

I wasnt invited! OK...i give up  where is the discussion thread?   ツ 

Lady GooGoo La La 

La La La  〔ツ〕〔ツ〕 

[Draken]

Since when you need an invitation to participate in a thread? Ha

My search engine is as good as yours... (maybe yours is even better).

[Pierre Mirosa]

I was afraid of it.
but No Prize, No Competition. Don't forget that the human being plays to win something I think that Google and his team know it...
Do not take badly what I have just said, it is just my opinion.

But i will continue to post photos !! panoramio is the best !!

Pierre

[Sparx]

That's too bad to hear that the photo competition is being completely abandoned, as I have received a lot of international visits to my photo gallery via exposure from the competition. I have also been introduced to wonderful galleries and have had interactions with users I would otherwise have never been aware of if it were not for the competition. I'm sure you have your reasons, as you have stated. There is, however, the proverbial smell of blood in the water with this latest development.

[davidcmc58]

I also feel sad that the contest is going away. It has been the best way that my gallery gets exposure from random Pano members that do not "know" me or my gallery. One visit to my photo and gallery just popped up in the last hour for example - http://www.panoramio.com/photo/95915729#c73707187 Well, it is what it is. Accept the changes in Google / Panoramio and move on. Google is making many changes these days. Picasa Web Album has been merged into Google+, Google map got a new version, Panoramio is going through a crazy redesign, and my darling IGoogle has been sentenced to death by Oct 31. What next?

[Draken]

A rhetorical question indeed. Googlers will not disclose future changes/improvements/new features/discontinued features, etc.. Nor will people under NDA.

El jueves, 3 de octubre de 2013 15:52:46 UTC-3, davidcmc58 escribió:

What next?

[sixten_imgs]

It is very understandable why the team has not been very eager to continue the contest: too much difficulties to find and publish the winner, stolen photos, wrong photos, negative atmosphere etc., etc.

However the posting and voting system has seemed to be working very smoothly, it surely has boosted the photo uploading, has given a handy way to show and find interesting photos etc. Compared to the groups the contest has had one fantastic feature: the monthly limit of uploading.

A suggestion:  Instead of dumping the system totally why not just develop it a little and change it to some kind of "Themes of the month" feature?

The users could go on uploading the photos in given themes but all the hassle with the winners and thieves would be left to history. It would be the team's decision how and when to present the photos that have received the "votes" (wows, likes or whatever). The main thing would be that the users still had one nice place where to find interesting photos. 

[Tomas K☼h☼ut]

I see pros and cons of contest termination.

Contest was nice (?) engine driving (some) users to contribute good photos in the false hope of victory (although the chance to win something material was close to nil). Former organization of the contest encouraging "social interaction" (where you could vote directly from photopage) drove users to provide some input - giving their votes, which can be used in photo quality and popularity ranking. Well, perhaps I shall say votes exchange instead of votes giving. ;-) And this also generates a lot of traffic on Panoramio... I hope you can see some irony in my words - I was not a friend of former contest organization.

At the moment when friendly votes could not be exchanged, many users lost their interest in real or pretended voting. Bad conclusion - there seems to be relative abundance of participants entering the contest compares to number of voters. No wonder - browsing contest gallery became quite boring task, too many off-topic photos, too many poor quality photos...

What was good about contest:

- it attracted new and regular members

- voting in contest provided quite strong input to popularity ranking (yes, I see my good photos are much more popular in the case they were entered into the contest)

- contest with prizes was unique feature, not available at rival photo sites (Flickr etc.) and thus giving Panoramio some popularity

Cons about contest:

- false quality input (social voting, activities of "professional" players)

- motivation to upload stolen photos

- contest spam in comments (reduced by introduction of new contest organization)

- problems with delivery of material prizes and finalization of contest results

Terminating the contest when there is no enough qualified votes seems to be logical step. Let's see how it affects Panoramio overall attractivity for users in long terms. Other solution is to "gamified" voting process to attract more votes.

[Sparx]

I have made a monthly habit out of going to the contest page on the 1st of each month and setting the goal of capturing the best pictures I can in each contest category, then submitting the results. My goal was to someday be good enough to win the Panoramio Photo Contest. As a result, each month my pictures have improved (look at my gallery to see the progression for yourself). I have sacrificed my personal safety to go out at night and photograph urban settings at 2 AM in the morning, simply to have a photo to submit to the current photo contest. THAT'S how much the Panoramio contest has meant to me. It pains me that you simply toss it aside because there are some difficulties. Have you no creativity? Do you not see any way to improve the contest as it stands without abandoning it entirely? I challenge you to be more than you think you can be.  

[Tomros]

there were many solutions suggested how to improve the contest. In the last incarnation, it was bound to fail. Closing it, make sense to me.

It was irrelevant, not really part of Panoramio. 

You can not make dead horse run! This horse died long time ago!

------------------------------

Recently the city council in my city decided to close some swimming pools. Over the years they made it more and more difficult to go.

Rented it out to birthday parties, special need groups. Making constant changes to schedules so people could not rely on certain days.

water was too cold or  too warm. Repairs were done on slow priority, dragging them out for month on end.

Council said, that statistics show, public do not use these pools enough. 

----------------------------------------------

If you set up things to fail, they will fail. 

Ask your self a question: Who killed the Panoramio contest?

[RoarX]

Hello Sparx.
Winning in the contest with a good photo has always been difficult. In the old contest, before you joined I think, the winners where people who went from gallery to gallery, dropping copy paste spam comments with fake "Voted!" message. They did this in a hope that they would get real votes back. It worked, their often average photos won the prize. In this new contest (current) the number of votes per winner photo is very low, making it  more like a lottery. On thop of that, people are entering the contest with stolen photos, stealing votes from real players. I suggest you try the no price contests in the games forum. There is some real competition there and right now there is the entry period on the most popular ones ;)

Tomros, I think the cheaters did, they made the contest unfair both now and in the old contest.

[Sparx]

RoarX,

Thank you for that concise explanation. I will check out the contest in the Games forum. 

[Vassilis L.]

I totally agree with my panoramio friend Christos Theodorou, but I have only one objection. I think the contest categories should be much more than three, and not fixed / standard at all. Brand new categories in every contest will increase the participants interest and there won't be any "lets-shoot-it-for-the-next-contest" photos.
Also, please examine the possibility to participate with older photo entries (older than one or more months) as well as with new ones.
However, mr Adam Lasnik, I susspect that you Panoramio admins wont reorganize any official contest at all, wich makes me sad... Hope I'm wrong!
Continue the good work.
Best wishes from Athens, Vassilis.

[hvbemmel]

Adam Lasnik wrote:

we won't have any new official Panoramio contests starting for the foreseeable future

Which means that there will be no more official contests any more for now. 

Please check out our games and competitions forum where there are several contests every month, all organized by users themselves.

[Draken]

Let me reinforce hvbemmel's words: The Team are not asking for suggestions about how to change the contest. This contest is over.

[mbe21]

Re: redesign-part-two in progress - It appears to be taking a long time to fix some of the bugs in this new design (which I feel is a giant step backward for photographers), simple things like adding to a group with a long name, names over photos (check out Flikr for a much better option) should be put right straight away while larger design considerations are being mulled over.  It should be fairly obvious from all the comments and suggestions received what needs doing NOW and what can wait for the redesign.

Cheers  Mick

[thailon]

Just a question. Hopefully, do you plan to add access to my favorite photographs? I was possible in old design, now there is no choice.
Thanks
Peter

[Tomas K☼h☼ut]

Peter (Thailon), this topic is about Contest going away, not about other features removed/bugged in new Panoramio design!

For feedback about new design please follow this thread:

http://www.panoramio.com/forum/view/panoramio-group-__root__?place=topic%2Fpanoramio-questions-support%2F3JMJRwQTfpo%2Fdiscussion

Favourite photos are accessible even with new design template - try this link:

http://www.panoramio.com/favorites/3181113

You can change 3181113 to your user ID and put it into your bookmarks.

You are right, link to favourite photos is not present at new design.

[thailon]

Uf you are right, sorry for bad thread from my side.

Thanks for help anyhow,

thailon

On Friday, October 18, 2013 6:33:34 PM UTC+2, Tomas K☼h☼ut wrote:

Peter (Thailon), this topic is about Contest going away, not about other features removed/bugged in new Panoramio design!

For feedback about new design please follow this thread:

http://www.panoramio.com/forum/view/panoramio-group-__root__?place=topic%2Fpanoramio-questions-support%2F3JMJRwQTfpo%2Fdiscussion

Favourite photos are accessible even with new design template - try this link:

http://www.panoramio.com/favorites/3181113

You can change 3181113 to your user ID and put it into your bookmarks.

You are right, link to favourite photos is not present at new design.

On Friday, October 18, 2013 5:20:42 PM UTC+2, thailon wrote:

[mbe21]

Thomas The heading for this thread is 'Contests going away / redesign-part-two in progress' so thailon  and I were quite right to post our comments here.  If Adam wanted this thread for Contest going away only he should have posted his redesign comments separately somewhere more appropiate.
From what I can see these forums are not well organised as it is necessary to read several different threads to find out what people are saying.

Mick

On Friday, October 18, 2013 5:33:34 PM UTC+1, Tomas K☼h☼ut wrote:

Peter (Thailon), this topic is about Contest going away, not about other features removed/bugged in new Panoramio design!

For feedback about new design please follow this thread:

http://www.panoramio.com/forum/view/panoramio-group-__root__?place=topic%2Fpanoramio-questions-support%2F3JMJRwQTfpo%2Fdiscussion

Favourite photos are accessible even with new design template - try this link:

http://www.panoramio.com/favorites/3181113

You can change 3181113 to your user ID and put it into your bookmarks.

You are right, link to favourite photos is not present at new design.

On Friday, October 18, 2013 5:20:42 PM UTC+2, thailon wrote:

[Tomas K☼h☼ut]

Right Mick, problem is - we (moderators) don't have tools in this forum for moving posts between threads or to join the threads. :(

And some users keep on posting into wrong threads or keep on opening new threads when active thread about the discussed topic already exists. Anyway - thanks for all feedback!

Don't make me wrong, but Adam's post was more like announcement than query for feedback. One thread for new design suggestions and one for bugs is pretty enough, I think. ;-)

[mbe21]

Another job for the Pano design team when they are done with the redesign of the main site.  Judging by how long that is taking it could be a while before we have a properly organised forum ;>) - Mick

On Friday, October 18, 2013 6:41:04 PM UTC+1, Tomas K☼h☼ut wrote:

Right Mick, problem is - we (moderators) don't have tools in this forum for moving posts between threads or to join the threads. :(

And some users keep on posting into wrong threads or keep on opening new threads when active thread about the discussed topic already exists. Anyway - thanks for all feedback!

Don't make me wrong, but Adam's post was more like announcement than query for feedback. One thread for new design suggestions and one for bugs is pretty enough, I think. ;-)

On Friday, October 18, 2013 7:29:43 PM UTC+2, mbe21 wrote:

[davidcmc58]

Adam Lasnik  (August 29) - Please post your feature requests and general feedback below (for new design).        

Adam Lasnik (September 30) - Note that our team has now processed all of your (awesome and detailed!) feedback on the recent redesign and is getting ready to make small but very important fixes and improvements. 

Guys, please be patient. Based on the history of this redesign process, the new design version 2 could be announced before the end of the month. Let's keep our fingers crossed that "small" is not tiny.            

[sistuccio]

I was very disappointed to see that from this month, is taken off the Panoramio official contest . In my opinion in this way the [history](http://www.panoramio.com/contest) of Panoramio will be taken off. For this reason  I'm loosing interest on this site!!

 

Sistuccio

[Phil Tremblay]

I am with you sistuccio: Without a (properly managed) contest, I am loosing interest on this site!

And pulling it off cannot be the solution! 

-The lack of votes is due to the poor voting/awarding process...not the lack of interest in the contest;

-The lack of visits is due to the unfriendly viewing/browsing process...not the lack of interest in the contest;

-The frustration surrounding the stolen photos was because it did show the lack of "policing" of that contest...not for a lack of interest in the contest!

I think Panoramio got away for a while with simply putting up a contest out there without affecting enough resources to it. All the issues we see now are simply the natural backlash of this. 

And until I die, I will refuse to believe Google/Panoramio don't have the capacity ($) to address the issues.

Therefore, it is now your choice to decide if you want to move that great site one step forward...or one (huge) step back!

Thanks,

Phil

[Wim Constant]

To be perfectly honest: I couldn't care less.

I even think Panoramio isn't the place for a contest.

There are hundreds of sites where you can participate in all kinds of contests.

I don't need Panoramio for that.

Panoramio is for everybody. From amateur to professional photographer.

Op vrijdag 25 oktober 2013 16:34:50 UTC+2 schreef Phil Tremblay:

I am with you sistuccio: Without a (properly managed) contest, I am loosing interest on this site!

And pulling it off cannot be the solution! 

-The lack of votes is due to the poor voting/awarding process...not the lack of interest in the contest;

-The lack of visits is due to the unfriendly viewing/browsing process...not the lack of interest in the contest;

-The frustration surrounding the stolen photos was because it did show the lack of "policing" of that contest (and of the overall site if you want my humble opinion)...not for a lack of interest in the contest!

I think Panoramio got away for a while with simply putting up a contest out there without affecting enough resources to it. All the issues we see now are simply the natural backlash of this. 

And until I die, I will refuse to believe Google/Panoramio don't have the capacity ($) to address the issues.

Therefore, it is now your choice to decide if you want to move that great site one step forward...or one (huge) step back!

Thanks,

Phil

On Monday, September 30, 2013 3:17:29 PM UTC-4, Adam Lasnik wrote:

After a lot of thought about our official Panoramio contests, we've made the tough decision to discontinue them.

Given all the great submissions this month, we'll certainly still have voting in October, and then the selection of the winners in November.  But after today (September 30th), we won't have any new official Panoramio contests starting for the foreseeable future.  We do welcome you to check out the unofficial contests initiated and run by members like you, however!

[Sparx]

For some, who have other intersts, the Competition doesn't seem to have been very important. For others, like myself, it provided a vehicle for self-improvement. Without the Contest, I have certainly been exploring the multitude of other sites that do offer one form of competition or another. It seems an odd business model for Panoramio to require some of its more motivated Users to have to search elseware for what they are looking for. 

[© Tom Cooper]

I would be interested in knowing how a contest that:

* was manipulated

* was filled with stolen photos

* was filled with off-topic photos

* you had no idea how many votes you got

* you had no idea what your standing was

How did that help you become a better photographer?

Tom

[Sparx]

To be honest, Tom, I wasn't initially aware of any of the many corrupt things that you and so many others have brought to the attention to this post that were going on with this Contest. I'm simply saying that, despite those things, I have become a better photographer because of the Contest. It is my opinion that a healthy and honest Contest would benefit the User experience within Panoramio. I know that it would take resources and focused intention to heal the Contest as it stands. My point is that I feel it is a fight worth fighting.  

[Tomas K☼h☼ut]

Sparx, I understand your disappointment.

No matter how much was the contest flawed (yes, it was!) it was a kind of motivation for many users and it was quite unique feature comparing others photo sharing sites. Most of the flaws of the contest could be fixed by the better contest organization and design.

But instead of fixing the flaws of the contest, the site admins decided to discontinue it. Their choice. :-(

If you like some kind of contests as motivation for your photography skills improvement, I suggest you to look at monthly NPC, SPC and TTT user organized contests in the forum. Less participants, but higher quality of submitted photos and many of flaws described by Tom C. are not present (so far) there!

Current TTT

Current NPC

Current SPC

[sistuccio]

I think I interpreted the thought of Sparx which is moreover also my :
I am very conscious that 90 % of the photos in the official contest was of little value ! But in the remaining 10% could find really good pictures both for quality and  building technique also made ​​by unknown users . No doubt could be used as an example to improve own photographic knowledge . Considering all the faults and the problems that were mentioned, in the last two years , however, the photos turned out winning are definitely high quality and worthy of winning (Obviously other beautiful photos have not had the good fortune to be) . It has been reported minor contests TTT , NPC , SPC : I always participate in these contests , and I agree that the average quality is superior , but we are talking about contests where participating some  decines of competitors ( It is difficult to get to 100) and where you can hardly find really beautiful pictures for quality and technique (Those previously mentioned) . I repeat a concept that I have expressed to Adam : I think it was taken to Panoramio the only positive difference he had in comparison to many other photo sites and that surely will be paid.

Sistuccio

[Edison McCullen]

If the major cause of the contests stop is the usurpation, why not taking the contests over without material reward ?

Indeed, these usurpers are attracted by the cameras they think they can win. But us, the photographers, don’t participate for the material rewards, we participate for the visibility the contests provide, even if we aren’t in the 7 firsts.

I specify that the unofficial contests don’t provide the same visibility.

[Tomas K☼h☼ut]

Edison, last rounds of the official contest were without a material reward. Nevertheless, the contest was terminated anyway.

But you brought interesting idea - can be photos getting votes in NPC, SPC etc. somehow promoted?

Yes, sometimes they appear at random presentation on Panoramio landing page, but some "boost" in popularity would be fair too. I'll try to get admins attention for this idea.

[Daniela Brocca]

In the forum is not possible to have games with thousands of participants, Tomas. I can tell you.

[Tomas K☼h☼ut]

On Thursday, November 14, 2013 6:08:16 PM UTC+1, Daniela Brocca wrote:

In the forum is not possible to have games with thousands of participants, Tomas. I can tell you.

You are right,  Daniela.  I can imagine... But some  promotion of these contests is for good, what do you think?

[Daniela Brocca]

Yes, if is not too much, Tomas ;-)  When we changed the forum we lost  half of  the people, they never came back, or only few are coming back in the last times.

We have the problem or bug of the post not long enough for the rank. Nobody has done something for this. That is anyway a bug in the forum, or if not a bug, a problem.

[Tomros]

VMC is a contest, which is fully automatic and capable of processing hundreds of photos.

If Google would buy this program from his inventors, this could become an official program!  [I get 10% for this idea] ;-)

SPC from my recent experience can handle max 40-50 participants, if there are any more, nobody would like to be a moderator!

too much work.

[Edison McCullen]

Right, I’ve just seen they’ve already decided that the 2 july.

Yes, it could be unofficial but in a specific section, not in the forums anymore, with a vote button and then, the honour lists would be posted.