Carmen @ Claro on Panoramio

[muba]

Hi
I have had and email from the above.
"We are a group of travel enthusiasts building a mobile application to inspire people to explore the world and help them plan their detailed itineraries for free. We love your photos! Would you please allow us to display some of them within our app?

If you agree, please respond "Yes" to this email.
You will remain the sole owner of the photograph(s) and will be credited by personal name or by your website directly on the photograph(s). You may at any time withdraw your authorization for use by our company, the Claro Verde Group. Our License Agreement will be effective as of your acceptance.
Thank you so much for your help! And Happy Traveling! :)"

Are these people for real, and approved by Panoramio?

Has anybody replied or declined and why?

I made an enquiry as to whether this would increase my viewing statistics, but only got a reply saying the photos would be credited to me.

Thanks

[Daniela Brocca]

I have received the PM too,but did non answer, not yet.My problem is that she is speaking of a mobile  app. I don't have a modern mobile and no internet, so, how would I see the  site?

[Tomas K☼h☼ut]

I received same PM about three days ago.

I tried to Google out more details about Claro Verde Group, but did not find anything relevant (just a brief search).

I have no problem to allow usage of my photos for anything good, but I'd like to check the purpose of use before.

Anyway, they can use API and need not to ask, if they really want.

So I did not answer so far, but I the case of reply I will ask for revealing more identity (or application preview).

[Nick Weall]

I recently received much the same message from Diane for Claro etc

I replied yes

I then received a reply thanking me and asking how I would like my name to appear for crediting the shots to me. Also got asked for my e-mail address.

That is it to date.

I'm quite happy to share my work this way.

All that remains is to see what develops. If they next ask for my bank account details, I think I'll run away :)

[Hans Sterkendries]

I got the same message and declined.

I don't think mere credits are the appropriate payment for commercial use of pictures. The Claro Verde Group is not a " group of travel enthusiasts" but a commercial company wanting to make money from selling apps. Bakeries also have to pay the flower the use to make the bread they sell.

Op dinsdag 7 januari 2014 20:31:08 UTC+1 schreef muba:

[© Tom Cooper]

At the risk of allowing the topic to drift, I have once been approached by a commercial organization that was prepared to pay, but declined when they learned that the best version was the one posted (a very old photo).

I was also once approached by a non-profit organization dedicated to permanently preserving undeveloped land for public use.  I decided in that case that allowing them to use the one photo they wanted to use was a form of personal investment, since I often used land that they secured.

Tom

[~Marlene~]

I also received this request and accepted with the caveat that I must approve the pics they select and that they use my real name. I googled them to find they are a real company. She agreed to my request and thanked me. I'm happy for the exposure!

[© Tom Cooper]

I had no sooner posted this when I saw the newsletter in the mail.  There was my photo, on the front cover.  Just a little more about it's use on the photo's page: http://www.panoramio.com/photo/36177570

[muba]

I sent this to "Carmen"

Hi Carmen

Earlier I asked ... "Before I respond with a "yes", please can you tell me if this will increase my viewing statistics. The recent changes to Panoramio have had negative effect on these. All I ask for sharing my pictures is that I receive recognition (you have addressed that) and that I receive feedback by means of the viewing statistics."

You replied "Thank you so much for writing back to us! We put the photographer's credit at the bottom right corner of each photo. For you, we can put "muba @ Panoramio" for example. This way, your panoramio profile can be easily found."

Please re-read my question and tell me if by accepting whether my viewing counts will increase.

Then today I get this reply.

Good afternoon muba,

Thank you so much for the authorization granted in you account.

We are using some of your photos and here is the link where they appear:

http://www.visitcapitalcity.com/europe/valletta-malta

The site is not finished yet and if we use more pictures, we will send the links again.

Kind Regards Rute Alle Chandra

I am now wondering if this is the same group or whether 2 lots are making money off my pictures or trying to at least

[Matthew Walters]

I had a similar email from BrendaA, and replied -

Before I confirm I'd like clarification on a couple of points please -

Do you charge for the app, or is it free? What is the user licence for the app? How do you store images - will they be pulled directly from panoramio or will you take copies and use these in the app? How are photos presented in the app - is there any cropping/re-sizing? What is the purpose of the app?

I've yet to get a reply. Having seen the way they stamp the images with their website address, it's a big no for me.

[muba]

I quite agree Matthew. But I have a feeling they can do this with my current settings via the Panoramio agreement. I post up photos in order for them to be viewed, pure and simple. I don't think many of mine actually have any real financial value, so I am not worried on that score. In fact I am a bit flattered that one of mine was chosen for the 10 or so available to illustrate Valletta.

On Tuesday, January 7, 2014 7:31:08 PM UTC, muba wrote:

[Tomas K☼h☼ut]

On Wednesday, January 15, 2014 10:00:59 PM UTC+1, muba wrote:

I have a feeling they can do this with my current settings via the Panoramio agreement. I post up photos in order for them to be viewed, pure and simple. 

No, they cannot do it this way without your consent in this case. 

By agreeing with Panoramio/Google Terms of Service you allow Panoramio (Google) to host your images on Google servers and display them from here. So called API use will take photos from this storage and make it available for third parties to display. Whenever you decide to delete your photo, it shall disappear either from Panoramio and all the sites using API (Google Earth, Maps, p-Track etc.)

But site http://www.visitcapitalcity.com/europe/valletta-malta

made a copy of the image files taken from Panoramio and host it on their own servers:

http://www.visitcapitalcity.com/imagens/city/Valletta/Hidden-garden-at-Casa-Rocca-Piccola-Valletta.jpg

It's not use of API. In fact, they don't use API at all.

Moreover, they changed your photo (by inserting their logo and "your" signature. They don't link to your photo page on Panoramio (other API feature). They don't link your Panoramio user name to your photo gallery page (other API requirement... in fact, they don't put your user name beside photo at all). They don't use Panoramio logo.

[muba]

Do you have a suggestion about how to follow this up Tomas?

On Tuesday, January 7, 2014 7:31:08 PM UTC, muba wrote:

[Tomas K☼h☼ut]

On Wednesday, January 15, 2014 11:41:37 PM UTC+1, muba wrote:

Do you have a suggestion about how to follow this up Tomas?

It is up to you.

If you are happy with the things they do and the way how they do... grant them access to your photos.

Otherwise - ask them to remove your photos from their web sites (and applications, if any).

Tell them they shall use API.

Here is more info about API:  http://www.panoramio.com/api

[muba]

Thank you Tomas

On Tuesday, January 7, 2014 7:31:08 PM UTC, muba wrote:

[Lady GooGoo La La]

I maybe wrong here but as the photo is on a different website has been altered, and no longer on Panoramio, those images may no longer be protected by copyright on Panoramio.  This is a legal issue and risky to assume you retain copyright on these altered images stored on different server.

The question now is, since you shared the image do you need to change you license agreement for those photos on Panoramio or are they different images now they they have been altered so doesn't effect Panoramio licensing? 

Seem you open can of a worms, maybe not important to you  but interesting questions.

Lady GooGoo LaLa

[Erhard Bernstein]

No, AFAIK, when you took the picture you are still the copyright holder. Taking your picture and modifying it means infringement of your copyrights unless you granted the permission to do so.

Gving Google the permission to display your pictures (by uploading them to PA) does not mean at all that you have lost your copyrights in any way.

However, it is another question if you can realize your claims. Personally, I would not grant such a permission to that website for free unliss I am definitely, positively sure that it serves a purpose I want to support. All others have to negoate about a proper compensation - or ask other fotografers.

[hvbemmel]

Unless you´ve put a Creative Commons on your photos anywhere in the web, the photo will be copyrighted "all rights reserved" by you . This is not a Panoramio / Google feature this is just your legal right. The fact Panoramio has a separate section on the photo page is just to show who the copyright owner is  and there is a possibility to show an other copyright as "all rights reserved", which I strongly want to discourage. In that CC license you can tell if someone can multiply the photo as is or even has the right to alter it. With CC however you will never know where it ends up eventually, because everybody can use it without asking. So again, I advise to stick to "all rights reserved".

On this particular occasion you can allow an app to use a piece of art (your photo) on that particular place . They can then use your photo as is under the conditions you both agreed. 

In fact you do that with every photo you upload to Panoramio; you agree that Panoramio hosts it (which means making copies in different sizes for the use in PA), displays it and makes it available through API. Panoramio credits you and your copyright and that´s it. This agreement ends when you delete your photo.  

Op vrijdag 17 januari 2014 04:35:23 UTC+1 schreef Lady GooGoo La La:

[Autofan1515]

I've got an email from her as well in May. Haven't replied yet, due to some traveling. What's the outcome of this? Have they taken your pictures offline after you complained about it?

I'm just a little curious about this. I'm not a professional photographer at all, but I don't want someone else to use my pictures for commercial purposes as well. I'd be a lot easier for them and for us if they would just use the API.

[across.5.continents]

Hi as well,

it looks like a new round is up as I've got a message from 'francis @ claro' these days. Most things already mentioned. Searching the net with the company's name it pops up as a Delaware Corporation without further contact details. Additionally a free app for smartphones can be related and has been released by mid-year following the structure of the discussed website. I will not give away my Panoramios for anonymous 'travel enthusiasts' as at least Francis does not contribute to Panoramio at all (user 8073432).

All the best for Panoramio!

[gphe]

Active again in Nov 2014.  My email  was from BrendaA user 8073251. There is a similar pattern here of the person asking you to participate not posting any images themselves, which is weird for a group of travel enthusiasts who want to develop an app with images - wouldn't you try to highlight your own first.

I wonder if there is something going on other that wanting to use your images.

I have asked for more details, such as whether the app is free, whether there is any association with the website www.visitcapitalcity.com - which does credit the photographer, but is  not the mobile app that permission is being asked for.

Brenda Arnot if you are out there, please reply so we all know what is going on - and get onboard if it is a legitimate way to help fellow travellers. 

Cheers,

Geoff

 

[hvbemmel]

The user http://www.panoramio.com/user/8073251 has the PM function activated so you can write her a mail. Calling on her in this forum will not bring you much I think

[smithg22]

I too have had the same email from BrendaA earlier thismonth.  I did a search on the Claro Verde Group and was led to a page on credibility.com, showing a residential address in Plano Texas, and indicating that the Claro Verde Group Inc employs 1 person and generates an income of $64,000.
Given the number of different names of apparent sources of this email, I think that even this info is bogus.
I've PM'd BrendaA, stating that in the absence of any Ts & Cs, and for use outside of the Panoramio umbrella, my photos would not be available to her or her group for free.  I've given her a starting price per image, and invited her to respond if she is still interested in discussing terms any further.
I somehow doubt if she will respond.

[gphe]

PM sent as well :-)

[Annette Rawling]

https://credibility.com/computer-systems-design-services/us-tx-plano/claro-verde-group-inc

Received the same email today 2 dec 2014  copied the details from credibility.com (see above)  seems a bit suss to me 1 person only employed name given in email is English but yet credibility give an Asian name??  check it out. will be declining as it doesn't seem to be legit & yes even tho recognition is one thing earning something from the photos would be better.

[Annette Rawling]

Replied with a NO as per the email and its bounced backvia  Panoramio

On Wednesday, January 8, 2014 3:31:08 AM UTC+8, Steve Tandy wrote:

[Tomas K☼h☼ut]

On Wednesday, December 3, 2014 6:45:37 AM UTC+1, Annette Rawling wrote:

Replied with a NO as per the email and its bounced backvia  Panoramio

Of course. 

You cannot reply to messages sent by Panoramio (Panoramio here acts as the man in the middle, communication agent).

If the message you received does not contain direct email address for reply (something @ claro), you shall go to sender's profile (link in mail) and end him private message (click envelope icon on that user  profile).

Don't reply to this email by directly (via "Reply to" function)!

 

[fiee.visuelle]

I also got approached by "Ashley the Traveler" (who doesn’t have any pictures of her own on Panoramio).

Besides the entries in different business sites, I found their trademark application for an app named "TRVL GENIUS": http://trademarks.justia.com/862/87/trvl-86287083.html

I don’t see as suspective that this company apparently only employs one person – it’s probably a startup, and the others are either really enthusiasts or freelancers.

But the Whois record for "visitcapitalcity.com" has a Portuguese company:

Registrant Name: mora feria

Registrant Organization: moraferia

Registrant Street: Jardimsol - Quinta de Valverde

Registrant City: Almancil

Registrant State/Province: Algarve

Registrant Postal Code: 8100

Registrant Country: Portugal

Registrant Phone: +351.098888

I see no relationship to "Claro Verde Group" in Texas.

I will answer that they can use my pictures within the given license(s) – Google API or Creative Commons.

[AZZakwan]

I replied yes, took her almost 1 day to reply. i'll mark this as spam.

Ashley the Traveler sent you a new message on Panoramio:

Thank you soooo much! How would you like to be credited on the photographs? Your full name for example? We will certainly update you when our app is ready to launch! (Hopefully in the next couple of months :) What’s your email address? thanks, Ashley

[A Murder Of Dreams]

I received a similar message on Jan 29 from Carmen @ Claro but didn't follow up on it. The message was:

We are a group of travel enthusiasts building a mobile application to inspire people to explore the world and help them plan their detailed itineraries for free. We love your photos! Would you please allow us to display some of them within our app?

If you agree, please respond "Yes" to this email.

You will remain the sole owner of the photograph (s) and will be credited by your name or your website directly on the photograph (s). You may at any time withdraw your authorization for use by our company, the Claro Verde Group. Our License Agreement will be effective as of your acceptance.

Thank you so much for your help! And Happy Traveling! :)

From the discussion in this group it looks like a commercial company building an app and wanting to use photos published on Panoramio. I'm guessing the app won't be free.

What bothers me is the number of different aliases used by this company (Carmen, BrendA, Diane, etc.) Obviously this is just the same person or couple of persons sending these messages. So why are they hiding behind fake aliases? I smell something fishy there. If they're already dishonest in approching us, then their ulterior motives can't be very honest either.

Also, writing my blog's address on a picture of a mobile app won't drive any traffic to my photo blog, unless there's a link that people can click.

And also, I couldn't find their License Agreement on their website. Do they expect people to sign up for something that hasn't been written yet???

[Alunfoto - Jostein Øksne]

Today it was my turn to receive an invite from an employee at Claro Verde Group.
So I googled the company name, found this conversation and a lot of other info that I thought I'd share.

Claro Verde Group is registered as one-person businesses in various states in the US.
None of the employee or owner names match the aliases mentioned in this discussion.

It's been a year and a half since the first mail reported in this thread. So far, nobody has seen a finished product. The "visitcapitalcity.com" is stale, and on visiting today, Valetta is still the only capital for which the photos are watermarked with photographers' name or alias. Their alledged mobile app has been stale for just as long.

Like fiee.visuelle writes, there's something fishy about the data trail too.

My conclusion is that this is a scam. Stay away.

Also, it could be a good idea to use services like TinEye from time to time, to check the net for unauthorised use of your Panoramio uploads.

[Noisette]

I got this message a couple of days ago fom "Hans @ Claro".  Having read this thread I don't feel inclined to answer.  18 months later and they are still building this app?  Sounds odd.  And as others have said, why wouldn't they use the API for "visitcapitalcity.com"?