The so-called Casa Ciclista in La Paz: for those who have visited or are planning to visit

[Pedaling South]

Hi everyone,

Café Chuquiaga in La Paz, operated by Cristian Conitzer, is, in our
opinion, not a “Casa Ciclista”; it offers inexpensive accommodation
for cyclists. You will be required to pay 15 bolivianos per person per
night, comparable in price with lower-range Bolivian hostels. You will
also be required to work a certain number of (unremunerated) hours in
the Café.

We write this message only to advise other touring cyclists who have
stayed, as we had, at one or more Casa Ciclistas in Latin America
before reaching La Paz. In other Casas, cyclists are sometimes
encouraged to make a donation and/or help out to keep things running
smoothly. This may include helping Lucho with his local bike races in
Trujillo, Peru, making a meal for Santiago's family in Quito, Ecuador,
or helping out on the farm with Paola and Igel in San Agustin,
Colombia. A Casa Ciclista, however, in our understanding, is not a
business and should not charge rent. Café Chuquiaga seems to be using
the term “Casa Ciclista” to draw cyclists under false pretenses.

Context: We knew ahead of time through email correspondence that we
would be expected to pay 15 bolivianos (2$) each per night. When we
arrived, Cristian explained (or at least we understood) that we could
contribute time in the Café and make a supper for him and his partner
Luisa instead of giving a monetary contribution.

We prepared breakfast for the Café's early morning customers (6:45 AM)
on four separate mornings, including two on our own, freeing up
Cristian and Luisa for several hours. We slept on the floor and
cleared our stuff out each morning at 6:00 to get the Café ready for
business. We cleared tables and did dishes when the Café was busy in
the afternoons and evenings. We threw together a supper for 6 people,
including Cristian and Luisa. We picked up fresh bread, at our own
cost, when they ran out, and went to the market for supplies. We gave
at least 16 hours of our time, and were happy to do so, as we were
under the impression that we were helping (a lot!) to keep the Casa
going. However, as we were preparing to leave, Cristian slapped us
with a bill of 30 bolivianos per night for four nights.

We expressed the fact that we were insulted at being charged rent
after all the work we'd done. We stated that he shouldn't call the
Café a Casa Ciclista. He refunded part of our money after we
threatened him with bad cred. (He still owes us over 40 bolivianos.)
We left on less than friendly terms.

We had a nice stay in La Paz all the same. We made use of the Café's
internet connection, hot shower, washroom and kitchen access and book
exchange. Cristian was helpful with directions on the Death Road and
Coroico and even gave us a ride up to La Cumbre (for US $10 gas money)
in his jeep. The Café is a good meeting point for cyclists in La Paz.
We are taking issue only with the misuse of the term “Casa Ciclista”
and the strange “work-and-pay” system that obviously profits Cristian
and the Café.

PS: Cristian also charged rent to Lucho, who is touring in Bolivia.
Lucho is the owner of Trujillo's legendary Casa Ciclista, which has
welcomed thousands of cyclists since 1988 for free. Is that tacky?

Looking forward to some comments... What is a Casa Ciclista for you?
Any impressions/feedback from those who have stayed at the Café in La
Paz? Are we crazy, unrealistic or just cheap?

Cheers from the edge of the Salar Uyuni,

Lucie & Torrey
Pedalingsouth.com

[da...@davestravelpages.com]

Hi there,
I popped into the cafe whilst i was in la paz, but have to say i didnt stay there for those exact reasons. I appreciate it when anyone puts me up of course, and will work for keep. But to work unpaid for me IS the donation, and to charge on top of that is a bit out of order.In addition, they get a constant source of free help, and in that sense, they are then not employing any locals, which isnt the greatest.
Anyhow, ramble over.

dave

Hi everyone,

Lucie & Torrey
Pedalingsouth.com

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[Axel Miguez]

Thanks for the tip, guys 

[John Benson]

From the 2 comments so far, the crux for me would be not the money or the help (these mix-ups, shall we say, are a common occurrence when you travel) but to be providing profit to someone who it seems has the means to employ local people means that the owner is in the wrong &, if s/he is aware of the fact, the traveller too.

John
www.johnbensontravels.com
www.johnbensontravels.com/currenttrip.html

[Baptiste Poncet]

Thanks for the comments.

I would add that the same questions should be considered when choosing wwoof / volunteering hosts. I have been highly disappointed by the way wwoof is used in Belize, for example. 90% of the hosts are canadian real estate agents who are just using free foreign labor instead of hiring locals, to develop estates (big orchards, mostly). More than 1 in 2 Belizeans lives with less than 2 dollars per day.

Cheers
bat

[Philipp Maitz]

Hi Guys!
I'm wondering what the highest points or passes in the Andes are that
you can access by bike.
We just cycled Abra Huayraccasa near Huancavelica, Peru which is
supposed to be the highest road pass in the Americas. The sign up there
said 5059m but my GPS indicated only 4983m (so we pushed the bikes a
few meters up a slope to reach 5000 for the first time on this trip ;-))
I only know one other point that's higher - refuguio Chacaltaya near La
Paz, Bolivia (which features a hut of the Austrian Alpenverein (alpine
club) - so I guess being Austrian I have to go there - 5200m.)
I found a file describing a few other high and bike accessible points:
http://www.passzwang.de/highroads_eng.pdf
Has anyone cycled one of the two mentioned observatories (Cerro
Chajnantor or Cerro Sairecabur) in Chile or the mining roads to Cerro
Uturuncu, Bolivia or Volc�n Aucanquilcha, Chile?
Reaching 6000 m on a bike seems tempting but not so much if you have to
carry the bike over landslides above 5000m.
So - any recent information?
cheers, Philipp

--
Philipp Maitz
Vogelsanggasse 6/22
1050 Wien
+43 650 7851122
philip...@gmail.com

[Paul Gareau]

Hey Phil! I think I almost reached 5000 on the backroads between Pasco and Morococha. Haven't decided yet if I'll take the mountains or canyon after huancayo. Guess you must have liked the mountains? How was the weather?

Paul

http://www.mtbtour.org/
http://www.panamericantour.net/

On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 5:41 PM, Philipp Maitz <philip...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Guys!
I'm wondering what the highest points or passes in the Andes are that you can access by bike.
We just cycled Abra Huayraccasa near Huancavelica, Peru which is supposed to be the highest road pass in the Americas. The sign up there said 5059m but my GPS indicated only 4983m (so we pushed  the bikes a few meters up a slope to reach 5000 for the first time on this trip ;-))
I only know one other point that's higher - refuguio Chacaltaya near La Paz, Bolivia (which features a hut of the Austrian Alpenverein (alpine club) - so I guess being Austrian I have to go there - 5200m.)
I found a file describing a few other high and bike accessible points: http://www.passzwang.de/highroads_eng.pdf

Has anyone cycled one of the two mentioned observatories (Cerro Chajnantor or Cerro Sairecabur) in Chile or the mining roads to Cerro Uturuncu, Bolivia or Volcán Aucanquilcha, Chile?

Reaching 6000 m on a bike seems tempting but not so much if you have to carry the bike over landslides above 5000m.
So - any recent information?
cheers, Philipp

--
Philipp Maitz
Vogelsanggasse 6/22
1050 Wien
+43 650 7851122
philip...@gmail.com

[Harry Kikstra, 7summits.com]

I climbed Ojos de Salado in 2003, the highest mountain of Chile (up from Copiapo, next to the border).

I think that pass to Argentina was about 4700m, but if you are looking for a high dead-end road:

 

I drove a car up to the BaseCamp hut at 5200m. The road actually continued up to 5800m, to the higher hut. I did not drive it as there were some deep snow patches on it, but 90% was clear (January) and though the “road” from the man dirt road to the Basecamp was pretty sandy (4x4), I remember the upper part being relatively cycle-able, of course in a masochistic kind of way J, so 5800m should be possible.

 

Ps: You need good cold weather gear (plastic boots) as well as climbing experience and good acclimatisation if you want to walk up to the summit at nearly 6900m. 99% is just a simple hike, but the last 50m or so is 3^rd grade scrambling which can be challenging at altitude and in this weather, so don’t try unless experienced and with a partner, the mountain is usually quite deserted.

 

Enjoy, Harry,

http://BikeTravellers.com

http://WorldOnaBike.com

[Axel Miguez]

In Casa de Ciclista Tumbaco, I met 2 french guys traveling from southamerica, heading north, and i ask´em about this issue. They told me they got there, had to sleep on the floor of the café, woke up very early and work all day long while the owner went to the cinema with his wife. They stay 2 or 3 days (i don´t remember) and the departure day he charge´em 3 dollars each per day. They had some kind of arguments but at the end they had to pay.

--

[Aaron Lisco]

It sounds like the word is getting out and hopefully if there biz slows to a crawl they will see the error of their ways, A friend in Texas just went to a woofing volunteer "farm" and it was not a work farm but a private house were they had to do chores for the owners nothing farm related seems to be hit or miss with this stuff

[Jeff]

I rode up to the 5059m pass myself and got the exact same GPS reading
of 4983m (see http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/page/?o=RrzKj&page_id=72674&v=2il).
So they should probably update that sign. Although the sign itself
looks like it hasn't received any maintenance in decades. Did you
continue down the other side towards Ayacucho? Just wondering what
that road is like.

A couple from Portugal who I'd ridden with earlier managed to get
their bikes up to 6000m (not confirmed with GPS, just with a VDO
cyclecomputer altimeter) on the road to Cerro Uturuncu in southwest
Bolivia in 2008. You can read about it on their blog,
http://www.ontheroad.eu.com/English/New%20Blog/UK-Blog.htm. The
Uturuncu blog entry is the latest one (even though they continued
riding for several months... the Portuguese blog has a few newer
entries that they never translated). Besides being a very difficult
road for biking, it is also very difficult to acquire and carry enough
food for yourself to get there. There is a village nearby (Quetana
Chico) but they apparently don't have much of a food market or
anything.



On Dec 10, 5:38 am, "Harry Kikstra, 7summits.com" <ha...@7summits.com>
wrote:

> http://www.mtbtour.org/http://www.panamericantour.net/
>
> On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 5:41 PM, Philipp Maitz <philipp.ma...@gmail.com>

> wrote:
>
> Hi Guys!
> I'm wondering what the highest points or passes in the Andes are that you
> can access by bike.
> We just cycled Abra Huayraccasa near Huancavelica, Peru which is supposed to
> be the highest road pass in the Americas. The sign up there said 5059m but
> my GPS indicated only 4983m (so we pushed  the bikes a few meters up a slope
> to reach 5000 for the first time on this trip ;-))
> I only know one other point that's higher - refuguio Chacaltaya near La Paz,
> Bolivia (which features a hut of the Austrian Alpenverein (alpine club) - so
> I guess being Austrian I have to go there - 5200m.)
> I found a file describing a few other high and bike accessible points:http://www.passzwang.de/highroads_eng.pdf
> Has anyone cycled one of the two mentioned observatories (Cerro Chajnantor
> or Cerro Sairecabur) in Chile or the mining roads to Cerro Uturuncu, Bolivia
> or Volcán Aucanquilcha, Chile?
> Reaching 6000 m on a bike seems tempting but not so much if you have to
> carry the bike over landslides above 5000m.
> So - any recent information?
> cheers, Philipp
>
> --
> Philipp Maitz
> Vogelsanggasse 6/22
> 1050 Wien
> +43 650 7851122

> philipp.ma...@gmail.com

>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "PanAm Riders" group.
> To post to this group, send email to panam-...@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
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> <mailto:panam-riders%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com> .
> For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/panam-riders?hl=en.

[John Benson]

I've never been anything like as high on a bike. But having summited the pass on the road up to Durango at 2810m I told everyone that it was the highest I'd ever ridden. Then, I read the document attached by Philipp & realized that I was wrong.

I cycled up the Sani Pass from South Africa to Lesotho a few years back ... so that's my highest ... and I also didn't know that it's the highest non-paved road in Africa.

Made me laugh, that's all. Maybe I should pay more attention to my cycling.

For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/panam-riders?hl=en.

--
John
www.johnbensontravels.com
www.johnbensontravels.com/currenttrip.html

[Aaron Lisco]

[Aaron Lisco]

Hand held GOS units are not an exact science almost all of the GPS handheld units are only accurate to a a few meters and are dependent on barometric pressure for elevation , the actual reading you are getting may be wrong because your GPS is wrong, if the engineer was using a trimble or equivalent it can be as accurate as a few centimeters

On Sat, Dec 11, 2010 at 12:01 PM, Jeff <jkr...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Philipp Maitz]

Hi Jeff!
I didn't even know you are in this group but we read your blog before we
rode up to Abra Huayraccasa ;-) We had more luck with the weather and
didn't get snowed in. We made it down past the Caudalosa mine to a few
km before Huachocolpa where we found an ideal campsite on an old and
blocked mining road.
The road down through the mining area is in good shape although the
landscape is kind of spoilt because of all the digging. It's the only
place so far though where we saw a lot of chinchillas (or at least
animals that we thought were chinchillas).
Down from Huachocolpa the road gets a lot worse and it didn't exactly
help that it was raining all day when we were riding the stretch - had
some nasty mud there(@Paul still not as bad as before San Ignacio) but
the valley is beautiful - one of the few places where we saw different
trees than Eucalyptus and very little agriculture. Lircay is quite a big
town and has plenty of hospedajes and friendly people. I guess we were
the only gringos coming through in the last few months.
From Lircay (3300m) you climb up to another 4500m pass that is so far
my favorite on this trip.
On the way to this pass people started telling us it's all downhill to
Ayacucho once you reach the cumbre which is of course not true - we
climbed at least another 1000m between the Pass and Ayacucho and
sometimes on quite bad roads.
I don't know what the stretch between Abra Chonta and Ayacucho via Santa
In�s is like - just saw some nice looking lagunas from Abra Chonta but
I'm still happy that we continued east of Abra Huayraccasa since the
Valley below the mine and the stretch between Lircay and Julcamarca were
very beautiful and seem to be much less traveled by cyclists than the
Santa In�s route so it was kind of exploring new terrain.
@Harry We are definitely not going to climb any high mountains since we
are not in shape for hiking but the road to the hut on Ojs de Salado at
5800 seems tempting if doable on a bike.
cheers Philipp

On 11.12.2010 14:01, Jeff wrote:
> I rode up to the 5059m pass myself and got the exact same GPS reading

> of 4983m (seehttp://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/page/?o=RrzKj&page_id=72674&v=2il).

> So they should probably update that sign. Although the sign itself
> looks like it hasn't received any maintenance in decades. Did you
> continue down the other side towards Ayacucho? Just wondering what
> that road is like.
>
> A couple from Portugal who I'd ridden with earlier managed to get
> their bikes up to 6000m (not confirmed with GPS, just with a VDO
> cyclecomputer altimeter) on the road to Cerro Uturuncu in southwest
> Bolivia in 2008. You can read about it on their blog,
> http://www.ontheroad.eu.com/English/New%20Blog/UK-Blog.htm. The
> Uturuncu blog entry is the latest one (even though they continued
> riding for several months... the Portuguese blog has a few newer
> entries that they never translated). Besides being a very difficult
> road for biking, it is also very difficult to acquire and carry enough
> food for yourself to get there. There is a village nearby (Quetana
> Chico) but they apparently don't have much of a food market or
> anything.
>
>
>
> On Dec 10, 5:38 am, "Harry Kikstra, 7summits.com"<ha...@7summits.com>
> wrote:
>> I climbed Ojos de Salado in 2003, the highest mountain of Chile (up from
>> Copiapo, next to the border).
>>
>> I think that pass to Argentina was about 4700m, but if you are looking for a
>> high dead-end road:
>>
>> I drove a car up to the BaseCamp hut at 5200m. The road actually continued
>> up to 5800m, to the higher hut. I did not drive it as there were some deep

>> snow patches on it, but 90% was clear (January) and though the �road� from

>> the man dirt road to the Basecamp was pretty sandy (4x4), I remember the
>> upper part being relatively cycle-able, of course in a masochistic kind of
>> way J, so 5800m should be possible.
>>
>> Ps: You need good cold weather gear (plastic boots) as well as climbing
>> experience and good acclimatisation if you want to walk up to the summit at
>> nearly 6900m. 99% is just a simple hike, but the last 50m or so is 3rd grade
>> scrambling which can be challenging at altitude and in this weather, so

>> don�t try unless experienced and with a partner, the mountain is usually

>> or Volc�n Aucanquilcha, Chile?

>> Reaching 6000 m on a bike seems tempting but not so much if you have to
>> carry the bike over landslides above 5000m.
>> So - any recent information?
>> cheers, Philipp
>>
>> --
>> Philipp Maitz
>> Vogelsanggasse 6/22
>> 1050 Wien
>> +43 650 7851122
>> philipp.ma...@gmail.com
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "PanAm Riders" group.

>> To post to this group, send email topanam...@googlegroups.com.

>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> panam-riders...@googlegroups.com
>> <mailto:panam-riders%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com> .
>> For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/panam-riders?hl=en.
>>
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Dr. Philipp Maitz

Vogelsanggasse 6/22
1050 Wien
+43 650 7851122

philip...@gmail.com