Gospel of Thomas Saying 32
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Gnostic Ken
Mar 12, 2013, 7:51:21 PM3/12/13
to pagan-...@googlegroups.com
Gospel of Thomas Saying 32
What does this saying mean to you?
32 "A city built on a high hill and fortified cannot fall,
nor can it be hidden."
......................
32)
"A city being built on a high mountain and
fortified cannot fall, nor can it be hidden."
.......................
32 No city
Built upon a mountain,
and well fortified,
can fall, or conceal itself.
.........................
32.
A city being built upon a high mountain and fortified
cannot fall nor can it be hidden.(Mt 5:14)
.......................
(32)
"A city built upon a high mountain (and) fortified cannot fall,
nor can it be hidden."
..........................
32 A city on a hill cannot be hidden
JESUS said,
"A city built upon a high hill and fortified cannot fall.
Nor can it be hidden."
32 "A city built on a high hill and fortified cannot fall,
nor can it be hidden."
......................
32)
"A city being built on a high mountain and
fortified cannot fall, nor can it be hidden."
.......................
32 No city
Built upon a mountain,
and well fortified,
can fall, or conceal itself.
.........................
32.
A city being built upon a high mountain and fortified
cannot fall nor can it be hidden.(Mt 5:14)
.......................
(32)
"A city built upon a high mountain (and) fortified cannot fall,
nor can it be hidden."
..........................
32 A city on a hill cannot be hidden
JESUS said,
"A city built upon a high hill and fortified cannot fall.
Nor can it be hidden."
Gnostic Ken
Mar 12, 2013, 7:59:54 PM3/12/13
to pagan-...@googlegroups.com
Wed Dec 24, 2003 11:25 am, I said:
Show yourself for what you are.
Ken
Wed Dec 24, 2003 2:18 pm, faula4wolf@... said:
Since you are specific on the quote from Thomas rather
than Matthew; I take it to mean just what it says
"literally".
It is based on a common sight in the Near East: one
sees mounds protruding from the plain or valley floor
everywhere; they mark the sites of ancient cities.
When a city succumbed to an enemy seige, the new
occupants simply leveled off the stones and clay
bricks of which the walls and buildings of the
previous city had been constructed, and built on top
of the debris.
Over the centuries the mound would grow to
considerable height since it was held together by the
outer walls that were continually reconstructed to
fortify the city. Gnostics had no difficulties in
seeing themselves as inhabitants of a fortified city
which could not be shaken.
The saying about the fortified city on a hill is
preserved by both Greek Thomas and Coptic Thomas as an
independent saying. Since the original context has
been lost in both Matthew and Thomas, we cannot
literally determine what it meant on the lips of Jesus
but, perhaps as a teacher, Jesus meant to reassure a
student on the pupil's successful development of the
self, an understanding of the true message of Jesus or
even a reaffirmation that believers can neither be
harmed in spirit, nor could they hide their faith.
If I were to think of it in this light, it would mean
to me (with my esoteric education) As long as I stand
on the strength of my convictions & beliefs "I will
not be moved" and It Shows!
Fey
Show yourself for what you are.
Ken
Wed Dec 24, 2003 2:18 pm, faula4wolf@... said:
Since you are specific on the quote from Thomas rather
than Matthew; I take it to mean just what it says
"literally".
It is based on a common sight in the Near East: one
sees mounds protruding from the plain or valley floor
everywhere; they mark the sites of ancient cities.
When a city succumbed to an enemy seige, the new
occupants simply leveled off the stones and clay
bricks of which the walls and buildings of the
previous city had been constructed, and built on top
of the debris.
Over the centuries the mound would grow to
considerable height since it was held together by the
outer walls that were continually reconstructed to
fortify the city. Gnostics had no difficulties in
seeing themselves as inhabitants of a fortified city
which could not be shaken.
The saying about the fortified city on a hill is
preserved by both Greek Thomas and Coptic Thomas as an
independent saying. Since the original context has
been lost in both Matthew and Thomas, we cannot
literally determine what it meant on the lips of Jesus
but, perhaps as a teacher, Jesus meant to reassure a
student on the pupil's successful development of the
self, an understanding of the true message of Jesus or
even a reaffirmation that believers can neither be
harmed in spirit, nor could they hide their faith.
If I were to think of it in this light, it would mean
to me (with my esoteric education) As long as I stand
on the strength of my convictions & beliefs "I will
not be moved" and It Shows!
Fey
Oct 10, 2006 07:34 PDT, slvan-@... said:
Once begun, a person being awakened will ultimately receive the Fulness..
Once begun, a person being awakened will ultimately receive the Fulness..
Wed Apr 9, 2008 2:29 pm, evwheeler@... said:
We of the gnosis experience are not hidden, our kingdom has been built by our
experience. we seem at times hidden from the world but we are not. for the most
of us we are the outcast of society. Our own understanding and our world is
hidden in a sense that no-0ne can understand it. but the fact remains we are
the strange ones with the happiness that some would call insane. Our kingdom is
fortified by our gnosis that no-one can take the precious pearl from us. Our
song no longer flows with there and we have left all and given all up in fact we
have done a rare thing for I have not seen but a few willing to give there life
for Jesus Christ. imo
ed
Wed Apr 9, 2008 4:11 pm, jill.sanders23@... said:
Oh, I have just joined and this is the first mail I read and now I am
confused. Where does Jesus figure in the gnosis experience? I
thought he was just somebody else who spoke about it. Could you
explain please?
Jill.
Wed Apr 9, 2008 5:56 pm, rosiolady@... replied to Jill:
Those who know Ed know he is not speaking of giving your life for Jesus
Christ in the literalist sense. He is speaking of Jesus Christ as "all
men/women
who become enlightened or achieve gnosis" and "giving your life for" meaning
dedicating all your energies to that end. Of course it's confusing if
that's the first thing you come across on our list. For the greatest part, if
you
see "anything" written on our list that sounds like literalist Christianity,
it is not meant that way. Welcome to the list. I hope you'll stick around
and read some more. There's a lot here and your ideas are very welcome too.
Rosalie
Wed Apr 9, 2008 8:35 pm, Gnostic Tom said:
Jesus is the poster child
of the gnostic experience
of becoming Christ.
Sun Apr 13, 2008 11:22 am, evwheeler@... replied:
Yes my friend, I don't like labels but they seem appropriate at times I am of
the christian gnostic tradition and so I use the words jesus christ for
consciousness which for me is what the name implies. The giving up ones life is
realization that your identity is not what you appear to be or simply put "Deny
thyself , take up your cross and follow me" (Jesus) Please my pagan friends
don't puke but I do quote the book from time to time. LOL imo
ed
Wed Apr 9, 2008 8:23 pm, Gnostic Tom said:
a gnostic having risen up above the herd
can no longer fall back into that herd mentality,
which means that the gnostic can no longer
just blend in with the herd anymore,
but will stand out like a misfit alien.
G n o s t i c . T o m
Wed Apr 9, 2008 9:27 pm, "Brian Joseph" author of "The Gift of Gabe" available
at amazon.com said:
I like that Tom ! I think the gnostic can appear to blend in, like
being in the world but not of it, but that isn't real blending in,
more like play. I like the "misfit alien" phrase. Sometimes I feel
like a joint in a pack of cigarettes.
Brian
Thu Apr 10, 2008 11:03 am, rosiolady@... said:
I like that simile! LOL Even though I've felt different from early in my
life, for a long time now I've not minded it. If I were not different, well,
then I'd be just like the masses and I think I have more fun. :-)
Rosalie
Thu Apr 10, 2008 12:29 pm, eugnostos2000@... said:
It cannot fall. It cannot be hidden. It is always right before
our eyes. What is It? When we can answer this, then we can climb
down off that cross and break bread with The Living Jesus.
-Steve
Thu Apr 10, 2008 12:41 pm, fwevans@... said:
IMO, it says to me that a city built well in a fortified position can't fall
but neither can it remain hidden from the world is an allegory for a person
whose foundation (Gnosis) is strong can't be assailed but neither can that
person hide that fact and be a hermit to the world.
Fred
Sun Apr 13, 2008 12:39 am, itzerat1@... said:
To me it means that home of the Perfect Light has been built "high on
a hill" and will never fall. It surrounds us. It has been and always
is there for us. It can not be hidden from those that will see it.
Itzerat
Mon Apr 14, 2008 10:24 am, tbelow@...
Hi, Ed. =)
I laughed when you said, "Please, my pagans friends don't puke" . LOL! I
walk a pagan path, but believe in the deity of Jesus. Nothing wrong with
quoting the book .. there's truth in all things if we just look for it.
And that "Christ consciousness" is something we should all strive to achieve
(imo).
I love your original post here . Are we happy, insane or insanely happy?
**smile** Even though this path gets lonely, I'd rather be here than
joining ranks with the mindless drones being programmed every Sunday
morning..
Blessings
Tracey
We of the gnosis experience are not hidden, our kingdom has been built by our
experience. we seem at times hidden from the world but we are not. for the most
of us we are the outcast of society. Our own understanding and our world is
hidden in a sense that no-0ne can understand it. but the fact remains we are
the strange ones with the happiness that some would call insane. Our kingdom is
fortified by our gnosis that no-one can take the precious pearl from us. Our
song no longer flows with there and we have left all and given all up in fact we
have done a rare thing for I have not seen but a few willing to give there life
for Jesus Christ. imo
ed
Wed Apr 9, 2008 4:11 pm, jill.sanders23@... said:
Oh, I have just joined and this is the first mail I read and now I am
confused. Where does Jesus figure in the gnosis experience? I
thought he was just somebody else who spoke about it. Could you
explain please?
Jill.
Wed Apr 9, 2008 5:56 pm, rosiolady@... replied to Jill:
Those who know Ed know he is not speaking of giving your life for Jesus
Christ in the literalist sense. He is speaking of Jesus Christ as "all
men/women
who become enlightened or achieve gnosis" and "giving your life for" meaning
dedicating all your energies to that end. Of course it's confusing if
that's the first thing you come across on our list. For the greatest part, if
you
see "anything" written on our list that sounds like literalist Christianity,
it is not meant that way. Welcome to the list. I hope you'll stick around
and read some more. There's a lot here and your ideas are very welcome too.
Rosalie
Wed Apr 9, 2008 8:35 pm, Gnostic Tom said:
Jesus is the poster child
of the gnostic experience
of becoming Christ.
Sun Apr 13, 2008 11:22 am, evwheeler@... replied:
Yes my friend, I don't like labels but they seem appropriate at times I am of
the christian gnostic tradition and so I use the words jesus christ for
consciousness which for me is what the name implies. The giving up ones life is
realization that your identity is not what you appear to be or simply put "Deny
thyself , take up your cross and follow me" (Jesus) Please my pagan friends
don't puke but I do quote the book from time to time. LOL imo
ed
Wed Apr 9, 2008 8:23 pm, Gnostic Tom said:
a gnostic having risen up above the herd
can no longer fall back into that herd mentality,
which means that the gnostic can no longer
just blend in with the herd anymore,
but will stand out like a misfit alien.
G n o s t i c . T o m
Wed Apr 9, 2008 9:27 pm, "Brian Joseph" author of "The Gift of Gabe" available
at amazon.com said:
I like that Tom ! I think the gnostic can appear to blend in, like
being in the world but not of it, but that isn't real blending in,
more like play. I like the "misfit alien" phrase. Sometimes I feel
like a joint in a pack of cigarettes.
Brian
Thu Apr 10, 2008 11:03 am, rosiolady@... said:
I like that simile! LOL Even though I've felt different from early in my
life, for a long time now I've not minded it. If I were not different, well,
then I'd be just like the masses and I think I have more fun. :-)
Rosalie
Thu Apr 10, 2008 12:29 pm, eugnostos2000@... said:
It cannot fall. It cannot be hidden. It is always right before
our eyes. What is It? When we can answer this, then we can climb
down off that cross and break bread with The Living Jesus.
-Steve
Thu Apr 10, 2008 12:41 pm, fwevans@... said:
IMO, it says to me that a city built well in a fortified position can't fall
but neither can it remain hidden from the world is an allegory for a person
whose foundation (Gnosis) is strong can't be assailed but neither can that
person hide that fact and be a hermit to the world.
Fred
Sun Apr 13, 2008 12:39 am, itzerat1@... said:
To me it means that home of the Perfect Light has been built "high on
a hill" and will never fall. It surrounds us. It has been and always
is there for us. It can not be hidden from those that will see it.
Itzerat
Mon Apr 14, 2008 10:24 am, tbelow@...
Hi, Ed. =)
I laughed when you said, "Please, my pagans friends don't puke" . LOL! I
walk a pagan path, but believe in the deity of Jesus. Nothing wrong with
quoting the book .. there's truth in all things if we just look for it.
And that "Christ consciousness" is something we should all strive to achieve
(imo).
I love your original post here . Are we happy, insane or insanely happy?
**smile** Even though this path gets lonely, I'd rather be here than
joining ranks with the mindless drones being programmed every Sunday
morning..
Blessings
Tracey
Mon Apr 20, 2009 8:22 pm, I said:
I think the city is knowledge and the high hill and
fortifications are direct experience. Knowledge built on direct experience is
stronger than a house built on sand. Faith is built on shifting sand. It cannot
be hidden means Gnostics will recognize each other even when we hide within
faith systems as we sometimes have to do when the literalists try to kill us
out.
IMO.
Ken
Thu Apr 23, 2009 7:29 am, Gnostic Tom said:
The "on a high hill" to me means being up and away from it all.
As if a war is going on down there and it is safe up here.
You are up and away, you've built a wall around yourself and
you are relatively safe from the war of the world out there.
This isn't the same as hiding, because you stand out like a
sore thumb. Like saying, in the world but not of the world.
That's what I get out of it.
G n o s t i c . T o m
http://www.geocities.com/gnostictom/
Sat Apr 25, 2009 8:32 am, I replied to Tom:
Right. You are there for everyone to see, but they can ignore you if they so
choose. You aren't in their face nor are you hiding.
Ken
Thu Jan 1, 2004 2:19 am, heir_of_enoch@... said:
Hello
Building one's city on a mountain is an expressive allegory, that
had man's effort been correctly directed and wisely exploited -
he will become worthy of reaping the fruits of that effort in the
best form ever envisaged by man, namely, a reposeful eternal
life secure from all the hazards that can threaten his safety.
Prophets had incessantly called attention to the fact that man can
never find a secure abode except through the spiritual quest, thus
calling man to devote his heart to that saving chance as it is
quite enough for worldly pursuits to engage his intellect which
is cultivated - in the first place - to deal with worldly
matters. But unfortunately the glamour of the worldly adored maxims
proved to be far more attractive to man than the calls of the
prophets to the extent of compelling him to choose the other way
round, that is, to devote his heart to his worldly pursuits,
leaving just his intellect, lukewarmly dallying over the spiritual
affairs - which are quite out of reach by definition - in the form
of performing some silly rituals, thus dooming himself to
perdition. Amazingly enough, man had not only preferred to
consolidate his transient chaotic earthly life at the expense of
an eternal blissful life, but tried also - naively enough - to
use his same material world of ignorance as a shortcut to a
substitute illusory after life manifest in laying the foundation of
a wide reputation for himself as a benefactor through building
empires of charitable institutions carrying his name, as if
the views of his contemporary mortals are able to benefit him the
least bit. That state of affairs shows how man's bewitchment by
worldliness can transcend all bounds of common sense - conducive
to his total ignoring of the fact that he is bound to be
bereaved of all what he has built on his fragile jerky material
world of ignorance through death - the thing that ought to guide
any sensible person to do his utmost in the spiritual quest
which represents the sole way of salvation.
I think the city is knowledge and the high hill and
fortifications are direct experience. Knowledge built on direct experience is
stronger than a house built on sand. Faith is built on shifting sand. It cannot
be hidden means Gnostics will recognize each other even when we hide within
faith systems as we sometimes have to do when the literalists try to kill us
out.
IMO.
Ken
Thu Apr 23, 2009 7:29 am, Gnostic Tom said:
The "on a high hill" to me means being up and away from it all.
As if a war is going on down there and it is safe up here.
You are up and away, you've built a wall around yourself and
you are relatively safe from the war of the world out there.
This isn't the same as hiding, because you stand out like a
sore thumb. Like saying, in the world but not of the world.
That's what I get out of it.
G n o s t i c . T o m
http://www.geocities.com/gnostictom/
Sat Apr 25, 2009 8:32 am, I replied to Tom:
Right. You are there for everyone to see, but they can ignore you if they so
choose. You aren't in their face nor are you hiding.
Ken
Thu Jan 1, 2004 2:19 am, heir_of_enoch@... said:
Hello
Building one's city on a mountain is an expressive allegory, that
had man's effort been correctly directed and wisely exploited -
he will become worthy of reaping the fruits of that effort in the
best form ever envisaged by man, namely, a reposeful eternal
life secure from all the hazards that can threaten his safety.
Prophets had incessantly called attention to the fact that man can
never find a secure abode except through the spiritual quest, thus
calling man to devote his heart to that saving chance as it is
quite enough for worldly pursuits to engage his intellect which
is cultivated - in the first place - to deal with worldly
matters. But unfortunately the glamour of the worldly adored maxims
proved to be far more attractive to man than the calls of the
prophets to the extent of compelling him to choose the other way
round, that is, to devote his heart to his worldly pursuits,
leaving just his intellect, lukewarmly dallying over the spiritual
affairs - which are quite out of reach by definition - in the form
of performing some silly rituals, thus dooming himself to
perdition. Amazingly enough, man had not only preferred to
consolidate his transient chaotic earthly life at the expense of
an eternal blissful life, but tried also - naively enough - to
use his same material world of ignorance as a shortcut to a
substitute illusory after life manifest in laying the foundation of
a wide reputation for himself as a benefactor through building
empires of charitable institutions carrying his name, as if
the views of his contemporary mortals are able to benefit him the
least bit. That state of affairs shows how man's bewitchment by
worldliness can transcend all bounds of common sense - conducive
to his total ignoring of the fact that he is bound to be
bereaved of all what he has built on his fragile jerky material
world of ignorance through death - the thing that ought to guide
any sensible person to do his utmost in the spiritual quest
which represents the sole way of salvation.
Oct. 15, 2010, I said:
I'm thinking this is talking about Gnosis. If you have it
you know what you have experienced and nobody is ever going to tell you you
didn't, and you can't hide it. People will see there is something different
about you.
Ken
I'm thinking this is talking about Gnosis. If you have it
you know what you have experienced and nobody is ever going to tell you you
didn't, and you can't hide it. People will see there is something different
about you.
Ken
May 14, '11, Clive said:
In Kabbalah a mountain equals egoism, when moses climbed mount sinai Kabbalists say he rose above his ego.
For me this saying means that spirituality is something we build on top of our ego,
I suppose it can't be hidden because if we are living in a spiritual state above our ego then we are going to talk and act differently to those who only know egoism, we would stick out like sore thumbs.
Best wish's.
Clive
For me this saying means that spirituality is something we build on top of our ego,
I suppose it can't be hidden because if we are living in a spiritual state above our ego then we are going to talk and act differently to those who only know egoism, we would stick out like sore thumbs.
Best wish's.
Clive
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