Some suggestions and observations from someone who just learned about your Education Service
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blazingbiz
Dec 19, 2010, 2:41:29 AM12/19/10
to School of Webcraft
Hi,
I didn't know anything about P2P University until I read an article
mentioning it, Mozilla, and the School of Web Craft about two hours
ago. Since then I followed the link and came to this Google Group and
have been reading the messages posted here.
My first impression is that this is great and would love to take each
and every course, that's just my level of passion about web
development and IT. I didn't follow the links to the main P2PU website
yet I've been going through the messages here but one issue at this
point is that it's just too much information without organization so
far, so the feeling of being overwhelmed is probably the first
barrier. Web Development is a broad topic, it encompasses Business,
Marketing, Language, Presentation, Graphic and System Design,
Programming Principles, Logic, and probably a lot more I can't think
of off the top of my head. Having all this presented in a simplified
and step by step way is necessary, this concept is called "chunking"
in web development parlance. As I follow the link to your main site
I'll probably get a more structured presentation, but I wanted to get
that principle across that with such a broad topic having things
chunked up and easily navigated is important. It's too easy to offer
up a free flow of very interesting subject matter and associated links
and have readers just tune it out because it's just too much to digest
mentally.
My own background is in web development I've taught myself various
programming languages, database design and management, server
administration, mark up languages, and graphic design. I've also
obtained my BS in IT from AIU Online starting at the University of
Phoenix. So online learning is something I subscribe to. I've been
working for myself in IT for about 8 years now, finishing my course
work in 2005.
For people like me and others I've had the experience of working with
in this industry I think you should offer a course for people who have
advance skills but are missing pieces of the fundamentals. In my case,
I would like a refresher course in things like basic standards
compliance mark up, scripting, and CSS - but having me sit through a
basic novice class would be a waste of time. There should courses
geared for people who need to fill gaps or who want to brush up on
things not practiced often in day to day work but who are advanced
learners and work in the field. The push to get projects done and deal
with real world coding leads to bad habits and also learning things on
the fly that work in bringing in income but cement false paradigms -
getting veteran web developers to relinquish bad habits and have a
better foundation in fundamentals they might have missed or forgotten
would be a good thing to teach for the industry I think.
I didn't see this brought up in the posts I read, but courses that
deal with web business principles and techniques is important. Being
an entrepreneur in the web space is ideal, so having a a solid
business background is important. One area I think is crucial is web
analytics, ad space management, understanding pay per click, affiliate
programs, referral linking, and so forth. This can go with SEO and
copy writing. Another course would be job hunting skills, interview
skills, resume writing, job prospecting, client acquisition, contact
management, how to do consulting work, how to solicit business
requirements from clients who have no idea what the web based paradigm
is, etc. All with the scope of web industry workers doing these
things, so geared to that group.
I certainly understand the allure of programming syntax,
functionality, as well as dazzling graphics with fancy UI and
multimedia RIA's - but there's too much devotion to the latest "buzz"
technology and shiny new platforms. Something that drags down the
industry I feel is too much marketing splash not enough real life
difference making. So getting real work done, crunching real numbers
of who is visiting your site, what they want, and how you can provide
that better to them - this is what gets over looked in the chase for
the latest buzz technology. Having a counter balance to that I think
would be a huge service to the web development industry within an
Educational Institution. A place where the students learn to be
grounded in IT principles; as others fly around on hype everyone can
be reassured that the tech people who implement the nuts and bolts are
grounded in fundamentals because of where they were taught. I think
that's very important and needed in the industry today.
So I hope that helps and people can take these ideas and use them to
make your project better.
I didn't know anything about P2P University until I read an article
mentioning it, Mozilla, and the School of Web Craft about two hours
ago. Since then I followed the link and came to this Google Group and
have been reading the messages posted here.
My first impression is that this is great and would love to take each
and every course, that's just my level of passion about web
development and IT. I didn't follow the links to the main P2PU website
yet I've been going through the messages here but one issue at this
point is that it's just too much information without organization so
far, so the feeling of being overwhelmed is probably the first
barrier. Web Development is a broad topic, it encompasses Business,
Marketing, Language, Presentation, Graphic and System Design,
Programming Principles, Logic, and probably a lot more I can't think
of off the top of my head. Having all this presented in a simplified
and step by step way is necessary, this concept is called "chunking"
in web development parlance. As I follow the link to your main site
I'll probably get a more structured presentation, but I wanted to get
that principle across that with such a broad topic having things
chunked up and easily navigated is important. It's too easy to offer
up a free flow of very interesting subject matter and associated links
and have readers just tune it out because it's just too much to digest
mentally.
My own background is in web development I've taught myself various
programming languages, database design and management, server
administration, mark up languages, and graphic design. I've also
obtained my BS in IT from AIU Online starting at the University of
Phoenix. So online learning is something I subscribe to. I've been
working for myself in IT for about 8 years now, finishing my course
work in 2005.
For people like me and others I've had the experience of working with
in this industry I think you should offer a course for people who have
advance skills but are missing pieces of the fundamentals. In my case,
I would like a refresher course in things like basic standards
compliance mark up, scripting, and CSS - but having me sit through a
basic novice class would be a waste of time. There should courses
geared for people who need to fill gaps or who want to brush up on
things not practiced often in day to day work but who are advanced
learners and work in the field. The push to get projects done and deal
with real world coding leads to bad habits and also learning things on
the fly that work in bringing in income but cement false paradigms -
getting veteran web developers to relinquish bad habits and have a
better foundation in fundamentals they might have missed or forgotten
would be a good thing to teach for the industry I think.
I didn't see this brought up in the posts I read, but courses that
deal with web business principles and techniques is important. Being
an entrepreneur in the web space is ideal, so having a a solid
business background is important. One area I think is crucial is web
analytics, ad space management, understanding pay per click, affiliate
programs, referral linking, and so forth. This can go with SEO and
copy writing. Another course would be job hunting skills, interview
skills, resume writing, job prospecting, client acquisition, contact
management, how to do consulting work, how to solicit business
requirements from clients who have no idea what the web based paradigm
is, etc. All with the scope of web industry workers doing these
things, so geared to that group.
I certainly understand the allure of programming syntax,
functionality, as well as dazzling graphics with fancy UI and
multimedia RIA's - but there's too much devotion to the latest "buzz"
technology and shiny new platforms. Something that drags down the
industry I feel is too much marketing splash not enough real life
difference making. So getting real work done, crunching real numbers
of who is visiting your site, what they want, and how you can provide
that better to them - this is what gets over looked in the chase for
the latest buzz technology. Having a counter balance to that I think
would be a huge service to the web development industry within an
Educational Institution. A place where the students learn to be
grounded in IT principles; as others fly around on hype everyone can
be reassured that the tech people who implement the nuts and bolts are
grounded in fundamentals because of where they were taught. I think
that's very important and needed in the industry today.
So I hope that helps and people can take these ideas and use them to
make your project better.
Pippa Buchanan
Dec 19, 2010, 5:18:06 PM12/19/10
to p2pu-w...@googlegroups.com
Hi Blazing Biz,
thank you for your response! As it was a long post I'll send you a long reply.
thank you for your response! As it was a long post I'll send you a long reply.
- First up - this are some really great points - would you like to come on the community call to discuss them?
- Community Call details: http://pad.p2pu.org/webcraft
- What was the article that you read about us in? Can you send us a link?
- Thanks for your feedback on both the website and the mailing list - the Peer 2 Peer University (P2PU) website is being redeveloped at the moment and will have increased support for tagging and "chunking" of information. You're welcome to get involved with this process by joining in the Development list for P2PU
- As we use this mailing list as our primary discussion environment we don't have the control over topics that forum software would allow. If you have suggestions of some more manageable, free and (ideally) open source ways to run discussions and keep topics in order, please suggest them.
- You may want to read through the draft School of Webcraft charter which outlines the approach that Mozilla and P2PU are taking.
- We do have a primarily technology focus. Subjects around business and project management would be relevant to SoW but as they have a broader appeal would be better presented within our parent learning project Peer 2 Peer University.
- Peer 2 Peer University is a peer-lead learning project -if you want to learn a particular topic we suggest that you propose to lead a study group, or perhaps you could partner up with someone else on the mailing list to organise a course together.
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Aakash Sigdel
Dec 21, 2010, 8:01:12 PM12/21/10
to p2pu-w...@googlegroups.com
I am really confused here who will be teaching the course and who will
be learning it. I am really interested on learling the business
related courses mentioned bove. But I am not sure who would be
teaching it. Really confused.
be learning it. I am really interested on learling the business
related courses mentioned bove. But I am not sure who would be
teaching it. Really confused.
On 12/20/10, Pippa Buchanan <Pippa.B...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Blazing Biz,
>
> thank you for your response! As it was a long post I'll send you a long
> reply.
>
>
> - First up - this are some really great points - would you like to come
> on the community call to discuss them?
> - Community Call details: http://pad.p2pu.org/webcraft
> - What was the article that you read about us in? Can you send us a link?
> - Thanks for your feedback on both the website and the mailing list - the
> Peer 2 Peer University (P2PU) website is being redeveloped at the moment
> and
> will have increased support for tagging and "chunking" of information.
> You're welcome to get involved with this process by joining in the
> Development list for P2PU
> - http://groups.google.com/group/p2pu-dev
> - As we use this mailing list as our primary discussion environment we
> don't have the control over topics that forum software would allow. If
> you
> have suggestions of some more manageable, free and (ideally) open source
> ways to run discussions and keep topics in order, please suggest them.
> - You may want to read through the draft School of Webcraft charter which
> outlines the approach that Mozilla and P2PU are taking.
> - http://etherpad.mozilla.org:9000/webcraft-charter
> - We do have a primarily technology focus. Subjects around business and
> project management would be relevant to SoW but as they have a broader
> appeal would be better presented within our parent learning project Peer
> 2
> Peer University.
> - Peer 2 Peer University is a peer-lead learning project -if you want to
>> p2pu-webcraf...@googlegroups.com<p2pu-webcraft%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>
blazingbiz
Jan 24, 2011, 6:35:44 AM1/24/11
to School of Webcraft
Hi Pippa,
Thank you for your response, I will follow up on your suggestions and
look into the things you suggested. I am short on time and work most
hours, that being the reason for this long delay in response but I'm
very interested in this approach to learning and this topic. Since it
has been a while since this post I want to just touch bases with you
do you still need a forum for School of Web Craft and P2PU because I
can supply that. The disorganized nature of these topics on the Group
framework makes it hard to follow a topic in a cohesive fashion. I
think a forum for all your classes and students to post in, keep track
of questions, answers, and have one central place to look up topics
that all have a thread that can be built upon is important for this
offer. It can be an integral part of the class and learning experience
as well for people to have a long running thread on a particular topic
or subject matter and have a central place people can check in to get
updated on that topic. People can assign homework, do projects, and
have a reference to check over time and see the growth of the topic -
this forum format would be a great tool for your school endeavors. I
can supply that for you, and I have a free open source forum I can set
up for this, I just want to check to see that you haven't already
included this your dev plans, since it is a great fit I figured you
already have.
I would like to get involved to in the things you listed here, I can
probably offer a lot to them, my time constraints with work being the
only thing in my way. For now I'd like to ask to keep in touch with
you and be able to keep a dialog with you going so I can keep updated
with what's going on with P2PU and School of WebCraft and when I get a
break in time can send of a message to you and let you know what I can
offer. If you don't mind being a bit of a liaison for me to balance my
time constraints with getting up to date with what's going on and
being able to send you my contributions I think I can help your school
endeavor quite a bit. I'll send you a message with the Reply to Author
link and see if we can get in touch.
Thanks,
Rafael
On Dec 19 2010, 2:18 pm, Pippa Buchanan <Pippa.Bucha...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> - What was the article that you read about us in? Can you send us a link?
> - Thanks for your feedback on both the website and the mailing list - the
> - As we use this mailing list as our primary discussion environment we
> - We do have a primarily technology focus. Subjects around business and
> > p2pu-webcraf...@googlegroups.com<p2pu-webcraft%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>
Thank you for your response, I will follow up on your suggestions and
look into the things you suggested. I am short on time and work most
hours, that being the reason for this long delay in response but I'm
very interested in this approach to learning and this topic. Since it
has been a while since this post I want to just touch bases with you
do you still need a forum for School of Web Craft and P2PU because I
can supply that. The disorganized nature of these topics on the Group
framework makes it hard to follow a topic in a cohesive fashion. I
think a forum for all your classes and students to post in, keep track
of questions, answers, and have one central place to look up topics
that all have a thread that can be built upon is important for this
offer. It can be an integral part of the class and learning experience
as well for people to have a long running thread on a particular topic
or subject matter and have a central place people can check in to get
updated on that topic. People can assign homework, do projects, and
have a reference to check over time and see the growth of the topic -
this forum format would be a great tool for your school endeavors. I
can supply that for you, and I have a free open source forum I can set
up for this, I just want to check to see that you haven't already
included this your dev plans, since it is a great fit I figured you
already have.
I would like to get involved to in the things you listed here, I can
probably offer a lot to them, my time constraints with work being the
only thing in my way. For now I'd like to ask to keep in touch with
you and be able to keep a dialog with you going so I can keep updated
with what's going on with P2PU and School of WebCraft and when I get a
break in time can send of a message to you and let you know what I can
offer. If you don't mind being a bit of a liaison for me to balance my
time constraints with getting up to date with what's going on and
being able to send you my contributions I think I can help your school
endeavor quite a bit. I'll send you a message with the Reply to Author
link and see if we can get in touch.
Thanks,
Rafael
On Dec 19 2010, 2:18 pm, Pippa Buchanan <Pippa.Bucha...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Hi Blazing Biz,
>
> thank you for your response! As it was a long post I'll send you a long
> reply.
>
> - First up - this are some really great points - would you like to come
>
> thank you for your response! As it was a long post I'll send you a long
> reply.
>
> on the community call to discuss them?
> - Community Call details:http://pad.p2pu.org/webcraft
> - What was the article that you read about us in? Can you send us a link?
> - Thanks for your feedback on both the website and the mailing list - the
> Peer 2 Peer University (P2PU) website is being redeveloped at the moment and
> will have increased support for tagging and "chunking" of information.
> You're welcome to get involved with this process by joining in the
> Development list for P2PU
> -http://groups.google.com/group/p2pu-dev
> will have increased support for tagging and "chunking" of information.
> You're welcome to get involved with this process by joining in the
> Development list for P2PU
> - As we use this mailing list as our primary discussion environment we
> don't have the control over topics that forum software would allow. If you
> have suggestions of some more manageable, free and (ideally) open source
> ways to run discussions and keep topics in order, please suggest them.
> - You may want to read through the draft School of Webcraft charter which
> have suggestions of some more manageable, free and (ideally) open source
> ways to run discussions and keep topics in order, please suggest them.
> outlines the approach that Mozilla and P2PU are taking.
> -http://etherpad.mozilla.org:9000/webcraft-charter
> - We do have a primarily technology focus. Subjects around business and
> project management would be relevant to SoW but as they have a broader
> appeal would be better presented within our parent learning project Peer 2
> Peer University.
> - Peer 2 Peer University is a peer-lead learning project -if you want to
> appeal would be better presented within our parent learning project Peer 2
> Peer University.
> learn a particular topic we suggest that you propose to lead a study group,
> or perhaps you could partner up with someone else on the mailing list to
> organise a course together.
>
> or perhaps you could partner up with someone else on the mailing list to
> organise a course together.
>
Pippa Buchanan
Jan 25, 2011, 12:15:20 AM1/25/11
to p2pu-w...@googlegroups.com
Thanks Rafael,
Here's some updated information about the technical team at P2PU
http://wiki.p2pu.org/w/page/31978748/Development-and-tech-team
It's best if you ask these community members on the development list about the forum software as they'll be able to give you a more accurate answer. I'm pretty sure that some type of discussion management is in the plans, but I wasn't involved in the most recent conversations around the new site.
Best,
Pippa
Here's some updated information about the technical team at P2PU
http://wiki.p2pu.org/w/page/31978748/Development-and-tech-team
It's best if you ask these community members on the development list about the forum software as they'll be able to give you a more accurate answer. I'm pretty sure that some type of discussion management is in the plans, but I wasn't involved in the most recent conversations around the new site.
Best,
Pippa
--
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blazingbiz
Jan 26, 2011, 5:05:03 AM1/26/11
to School of Webcraft
OK,
I'll ask them in that google group.
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