Anthology's Theme
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Leela
Feb 2, 2009, 8:52:43 AM2/2/09
to ozymandias
This thread is for discussion of what the anthology's theme should
be.
be.
Leela
Feb 2, 2009, 9:15:39 AM2/2/09
to ozymandias
Copied from "The Grand Experiment" thread, previous musings:
<gemae...@gmail.com> wrote:
>We contact these writers and tell them we'll
>publish whatever they send (therefore cutting out the
>submission/editing process, saving time and energy).
... which Jennifer D. quoted in a post today. I have
serious reservations about that, for two reasons.
First, "publish whatever they send" means that there can
be *no* theme for the anthology. Why would anyone want
an anthology with no focus at all? I sure wouldn't.
The theme may be very broad, but it should be more than
"what came over the transom".
I think the broadest theme would be one related to women.
It might be the authors are all women (my own preference),
or the stories all have strong women protagonists (or
villains), or they all deal with issues of particular
interest to women. Another possible focus could be
"quiltbag". Or "end of the world", one of the other
proposals. But we need *some* focus, IMHO. I think
that's the next thing we need to define and agree on.
Second, cutting out "the submission/editing process"
also seems risky. Last year, I worked with an old friend,
J. Ruth Gendler, on her third book, published by Marlowe
(in New York, since bought). We went through a *lot*
of drafts. I'm a very good editor/proofer, and by the
time the final MS went in, I *knew* it was clean. So
I was shocked when Marlowe's copy editor found several
little glitches I (and Ruth, and her agent, and six
other readers, and the publisher's rep) had missed.
My point is that there is no such thing as an MS that
can be put out "as-is" to save time and energy. We
cannot afford to skimp on production; and when we do
need to fix things, the author needs to be in the loop.
If our first effort has typos and grammar errors, or
even just careless writing, we will not get the chance
to do a second.
Love and Light,
--Jeremy
Jeremy H. Griffith
On Sun, 01 Feb 2009 20:30:22 -0800, "Jeremy H. Griffith"
<jer...@omsys.com> wrote:
>Another possible focus could be "quiltbag".
When I wrote that, I didn't actually realize that Nicola
and Kelley had *invented* the term. A visit with Google
established that... the only references not to a fabric
bag were in Nicola's blog and Web site. ;-)
The earliest one was last year, at:
http://www.nicolagriffith.com/warmachine.html
And there were some things Kelley said there I'd like
to bring up:
>But then there’s queer. An interesting word. An expansive
>word. Queer is not a word that assumes everyone at the
>table is the same. Vive la difference, it says.
>I don’t call myself queer any more than I call myself
>lesbian, but I'm more and more prepared to think of what
>I write as queer. That's partly because queer functions
>as a meta-descriptor for me, the word itself implying
>relativity, fluidity, defiance of categories. I feel free
>to define it any way I want.
I love that! And not just because I self-identify as
queer, either (though I do). Kelley goes on:
>As a writer, I accept the definition of queer writing
>as writing that expresses culturally non-standard sexual
>activity and identity. But I'm coming more and more to
>see that queer embraces the subtle differences as well
>as the obvious ones. And I believe that queer writing is
>anything that extends and legitimates the possibilities
>of sexual and gender identity beyond the writer's personal
>comfort zone.
Is this the focus for our first project? Nicola ends:
>Art is fiction that is beautiful, appealing, of more
>than ordinary substance and cultural longevity. It
>speaks to us across time. If we assume that good
>fiction deconstructs cultural cliché by writing about
>individual, particular characters in individual,
>particular situations, and if we define as queer any
>fiction which destabilises the assumptions that underpin
>the construction of sexual identity, then all really
>good fiction whose particulars include reference to sex
>and gender can't be anything other than queer. ...
This resonates with me. Wouldn't a book titled "Queer"
make you want to pick it up, at least to see what it's
about? Even if you were straight? It wouldn't have to
be a redux of the lovely anthologies Nicola edited before
(SF, fantasy, horror). Using the expansive definitions
Kelley and Nicola give it above, it could be quite, ah,
"different"... ;-)
Any takers?
Love and Light,
--Jeremy
*******************************************************************************************
I agree with Jeremy. Proofing, editing and the whole submissions
process is
very important. Furthermore, even the greats write crap sometimes, so
we
can't just stick any old thing together and publish it. It's not
simply a
case of hitting the spellchecker and then sending it to the printer.
I'm not keen on the 'women' angle, as I'm more of a queer-identifying
person, and I think gender categories like that are a little
misleading. I
wouldn't want to reify ostensible categories of 'womanhood' or gender
roles,
or whatever. The 'quiltbag' idea I do like, however.
--Adam Lowe
<gemae...@gmail.com> wrote:
>We contact these writers and tell them we'll
>publish whatever they send (therefore cutting out the
>submission/editing process, saving time and energy).
... which Jennifer D. quoted in a post today. I have
serious reservations about that, for two reasons.
First, "publish whatever they send" means that there can
be *no* theme for the anthology. Why would anyone want
an anthology with no focus at all? I sure wouldn't.
The theme may be very broad, but it should be more than
"what came over the transom".
I think the broadest theme would be one related to women.
It might be the authors are all women (my own preference),
or the stories all have strong women protagonists (or
villains), or they all deal with issues of particular
interest to women. Another possible focus could be
"quiltbag". Or "end of the world", one of the other
proposals. But we need *some* focus, IMHO. I think
that's the next thing we need to define and agree on.
Second, cutting out "the submission/editing process"
also seems risky. Last year, I worked with an old friend,
J. Ruth Gendler, on her third book, published by Marlowe
(in New York, since bought). We went through a *lot*
of drafts. I'm a very good editor/proofer, and by the
time the final MS went in, I *knew* it was clean. So
I was shocked when Marlowe's copy editor found several
little glitches I (and Ruth, and her agent, and six
other readers, and the publisher's rep) had missed.
My point is that there is no such thing as an MS that
can be put out "as-is" to save time and energy. We
cannot afford to skimp on production; and when we do
need to fix things, the author needs to be in the loop.
If our first effort has typos and grammar errors, or
even just careless writing, we will not get the chance
to do a second.
Love and Light,
--Jeremy
Jeremy H. Griffith
On Sun, 01 Feb 2009 20:30:22 -0800, "Jeremy H. Griffith"
<jer...@omsys.com> wrote:
>Another possible focus could be "quiltbag".
When I wrote that, I didn't actually realize that Nicola
and Kelley had *invented* the term. A visit with Google
established that... the only references not to a fabric
bag were in Nicola's blog and Web site. ;-)
The earliest one was last year, at:
http://www.nicolagriffith.com/warmachine.html
And there were some things Kelley said there I'd like
to bring up:
>But then there’s queer. An interesting word. An expansive
>word. Queer is not a word that assumes everyone at the
>table is the same. Vive la difference, it says.
>I don’t call myself queer any more than I call myself
>lesbian, but I'm more and more prepared to think of what
>I write as queer. That's partly because queer functions
>as a meta-descriptor for me, the word itself implying
>relativity, fluidity, defiance of categories. I feel free
>to define it any way I want.
I love that! And not just because I self-identify as
queer, either (though I do). Kelley goes on:
>As a writer, I accept the definition of queer writing
>as writing that expresses culturally non-standard sexual
>activity and identity. But I'm coming more and more to
>see that queer embraces the subtle differences as well
>as the obvious ones. And I believe that queer writing is
>anything that extends and legitimates the possibilities
>of sexual and gender identity beyond the writer's personal
>comfort zone.
Is this the focus for our first project? Nicola ends:
>Art is fiction that is beautiful, appealing, of more
>than ordinary substance and cultural longevity. It
>speaks to us across time. If we assume that good
>fiction deconstructs cultural cliché by writing about
>individual, particular characters in individual,
>particular situations, and if we define as queer any
>fiction which destabilises the assumptions that underpin
>the construction of sexual identity, then all really
>good fiction whose particulars include reference to sex
>and gender can't be anything other than queer. ...
This resonates with me. Wouldn't a book titled "Queer"
make you want to pick it up, at least to see what it's
about? Even if you were straight? It wouldn't have to
be a redux of the lovely anthologies Nicola edited before
(SF, fantasy, horror). Using the expansive definitions
Kelley and Nicola give it above, it could be quite, ah,
"different"... ;-)
Any takers?
Love and Light,
--Jeremy
*******************************************************************************************
I agree with Jeremy. Proofing, editing and the whole submissions
process is
very important. Furthermore, even the greats write crap sometimes, so
we
can't just stick any old thing together and publish it. It's not
simply a
case of hitting the spellchecker and then sending it to the printer.
I'm not keen on the 'women' angle, as I'm more of a queer-identifying
person, and I think gender categories like that are a little
misleading. I
wouldn't want to reify ostensible categories of 'womanhood' or gender
roles,
or whatever. The 'quiltbag' idea I do like, however.
--Adam Lowe
Leela
Feb 2, 2009, 9:31:19 AM2/2/09
to ozymandias
I like the idea of something themed "queer", although I have
hesitations about using so broad a definition as this one from Nicola:
> if we define as queer any
>fiction which destabilises the assumptions that underpin
>the construction of sexual identity, then all really
>good fiction whose particulars include reference to sex
>and gender can't be anything other than queer. ...
because I think that "queer" means something narrower in the wide
world, and if we say the book is a collection of queer fiction and
then don't have anything identifiably gblt in there, people will be
disappointed and irritated when they discover that, which is not a
good first reaction. I do think it's broad enough to give us a good
set of work without being so diffuse as to make marketing impossible.
There's a subtopic here on "how much editing do we do" and I'll just
offer that if we stick with ALREADY PUBLISHED works, as in Nicola's
plan, then we can indeed worry much less about the editing. Big names
is half of it; reprints is the other half.
Leela
hesitations about using so broad a definition as this one from Nicola:
> if we define as queer any
>fiction which destabilises the assumptions that underpin
>the construction of sexual identity, then all really
>good fiction whose particulars include reference to sex
>and gender can't be anything other than queer. ...
world, and if we say the book is a collection of queer fiction and
then don't have anything identifiably gblt in there, people will be
disappointed and irritated when they discover that, which is not a
good first reaction. I do think it's broad enough to give us a good
set of work without being so diffuse as to make marketing impossible.
There's a subtopic here on "how much editing do we do" and I'll just
offer that if we stick with ALREADY PUBLISHED works, as in Nicola's
plan, then we can indeed worry much less about the editing. Big names
is half of it; reprints is the other half.
Leela
Kelley Eskridge
Feb 2, 2009, 9:48:58 AM2/2/09
to ozymandias
To clarify: editing is working with a writer on story structure,
character development, wordsmithing, etc. Copyediting is proofing
for mistakes of spelling, grammar and syntax. The goal, as I
understand it, is to avoid the first. We would always want to
copyedit any file we received from an author.
Are we getting our artists, cartoonists, and photographers involved
in illustrating the stories themselves, or primarily as active
participants in the marketing aspects? I realize that any visuals
make the book more expensive to produce; however, they're also a way
to differentiate the product. No agenda, just putting it out for
consideration.
If we decide to go with a quiltbag antho, there is a whole list of
authors from the Bending the Landscape anthology that we can approach
for selected reprints.
Not to be difficult, but I have to say that themed anthologies have
always left me cold. I do not buy them. I buy specifically for a
diversity of experience, not a sense of sameness, which ultimately is
what any theme antho is selling on some level ("no matter what these
stories are, they are all about X"). I think a reprint antho of
compelling stories from well-known writers, if structured properly so
there's an overall sense of movement and "journey," is more than
enough without having to squash it into a theme box.
K
character development, wordsmithing, etc. Copyediting is proofing
for mistakes of spelling, grammar and syntax. The goal, as I
understand it, is to avoid the first. We would always want to
copyedit any file we received from an author.
Are we getting our artists, cartoonists, and photographers involved
in illustrating the stories themselves, or primarily as active
participants in the marketing aspects? I realize that any visuals
make the book more expensive to produce; however, they're also a way
to differentiate the product. No agenda, just putting it out for
consideration.
If we decide to go with a quiltbag antho, there is a whole list of
authors from the Bending the Landscape anthology that we can approach
for selected reprints.
Not to be difficult, but I have to say that themed anthologies have
always left me cold. I do not buy them. I buy specifically for a
diversity of experience, not a sense of sameness, which ultimately is
what any theme antho is selling on some level ("no matter what these
stories are, they are all about X"). I think a reprint antho of
compelling stories from well-known writers, if structured properly so
there's an overall sense of movement and "journey," is more than
enough without having to squash it into a theme box.
K
Kelley Eskridge
Feb 2, 2009, 9:48:58 AM2/2/09
to ozymandias
To clarify: editing is working with a writer on story structure,
character development, wordsmithing, etc. Copyediting is proofing
for mistakes of spelling, grammar and syntax. The goal, as I
understand it, is to avoid the first. We would always want to
copyedit any file we received from an author.
Are we getting our artists, cartoonists, and photographers involved
in illustrating the stories themselves, or primarily as active
participants in the marketing aspects? I realize that any visuals
make the book more expensive to produce; however, they're also a way
to differentiate the product. No agenda, just putting it out for
consideration.
If we decide to go with a quiltbag antho, there is a whole list of
authors from the Bending the Landscape anthology that we can approach
for selected reprints.
Not to be difficult, but I have to say that themed anthologies have
always left me cold. I do not buy them. I buy specifically for a
diversity of experience, not a sense of sameness, which ultimately is
what any theme antho is selling on some level ("no matter what these
stories are, they are all about X"). I think a reprint antho of
compelling stories from well-known writers, if structured properly so
there's an overall sense of movement and "journey," is more than
enough without having to squash it into a theme box.
K
At 06:31 AM 02/02/2009, Leela wrote:
character development, wordsmithing, etc. Copyediting is proofing
for mistakes of spelling, grammar and syntax. The goal, as I
understand it, is to avoid the first. We would always want to
copyedit any file we received from an author.
Are we getting our artists, cartoonists, and photographers involved
in illustrating the stories themselves, or primarily as active
participants in the marketing aspects? I realize that any visuals
make the book more expensive to produce; however, they're also a way
to differentiate the product. No agenda, just putting it out for
consideration.
If we decide to go with a quiltbag antho, there is a whole list of
authors from the Bending the Landscape anthology that we can approach
for selected reprints.
Not to be difficult, but I have to say that themed anthologies have
always left me cold. I do not buy them. I buy specifically for a
diversity of experience, not a sense of sameness, which ultimately is
what any theme antho is selling on some level ("no matter what these
stories are, they are all about X"). I think a reprint antho of
compelling stories from well-known writers, if structured properly so
there's an overall sense of movement and "journey," is more than
enough without having to squash it into a theme box.
K
At 06:31 AM 02/02/2009, Leela wrote:
Kelley Eskridge
Feb 2, 2009, 9:50:57 AM2/2/09
to ozyma...@googlegroups.com
Google groups does that to me sometimes...
K
Jeremy H. Griffith
Feb 2, 2009, 5:51:09 PM2/2/09
to ozyma...@googlegroups.com
On Mon, 02 Feb 2009 06:48:58 -0800, Kelley Eskridge
<kel...@kelleyeskridge.com> wrote:
<kel...@kelleyeskridge.com> wrote:
>Not to be difficult, but I have to say that themed anthologies have
>always left me cold. I do not buy them. I buy specifically for a
>diversity of experience, not a sense of sameness, which ultimately is
>what any theme antho is selling on some level ("no matter what these
>stories are, they are all about X"). I think a reprint antho of
>compelling stories from well-known writers, if structured properly so
>there's an overall sense of movement and "journey," is more than
>enough without having to squash it into a theme box.
That's precisely *why* I named the thread "The Anthology's Focus".
Unfortunately it was renamed, for no reason I can see.
I think we agree on this, Kelley. When I say "focus", I don't
mean a Procrustean Bed for the stories. I mean a unifying idea,
what you refer to as "an overall sense of movement and 'journey'".
Something that makes the collection more than a random set of
whatever arrived before the publication date.
Love and Light,
--Jeremy
Kelley Eskridge
Feb 2, 2009, 5:54:13 PM2/2/09
to ozyma...@googlegroups.com
Hey Jeremy,
Actually, no, I don't think we agree on this. I don't think we need
a antho in which every story can, for example, be somehow described
as quiltbag. I don't think a journey is the same thing as a unifying
idea. And I don't think that the only choice is "unifying idea" or
"random set."
Just one opinion in the group, I am sure we'll hear from others what
they think.
Best,
K
Actually, no, I don't think we agree on this. I don't think we need
a antho in which every story can, for example, be somehow described
as quiltbag. I don't think a journey is the same thing as a unifying
idea. And I don't think that the only choice is "unifying idea" or
"random set."
Just one opinion in the group, I am sure we'll hear from others what
they think.
Best,
K
Karina Melendez
Feb 2, 2009, 6:28:28 PM2/2/09
to ozyma...@googlegroups.com
I like themed anthologies for the same reason I enjoy cover songs, or @U2's Like a Song
section---I'm curious to see how different artists appropriate or
develop or build on a similar foundation. I'm often surprised by the
variety, rather than disappointed by the sameness.
I'm not exactly a fan of Arthuriana-type fiction, and yet I've found myself delighted by stories such as Garth Nix's "Under the Lake"---which Nix wrote after asking himself questions about the Lady of the Lake: "What would it be like living way down deep? Why would she choose to live there? What if she wasn't actually a lady? or, better still, not even human? And why would she help Arthur? What if she wasn't good at all? What if she was a real monster,like a very smart psychopath?". Nix's is a dark tale, while Neil Gaiman's "Chivalry"---in which Mrs. Whitaker finds the Holy Grail in a second-hand shop, and Galahad must trade something for it that will look just as good on her mantle---is completely hillarious. These two short stories, for example, have not been compiled under the same volume yet, but they would certainly fit well in an anthology of Arthuriana.
This is what I had in mind when I voiced my preference for a themed anthology: a show of alternatives, explorations, talent, wit, etc. The instigating sentence/theme could be anything like: The Book Is Dead, Long Live the Book, (I just threw that here, it's not my official theme proposal) or whatever tickles us. And then the quest would be for us to go find stories, published stories, that showed the many ways one can talk about that.
-karina
I'm not exactly a fan of Arthuriana-type fiction, and yet I've found myself delighted by stories such as Garth Nix's "Under the Lake"---which Nix wrote after asking himself questions about the Lady of the Lake: "What would it be like living way down deep? Why would she choose to live there? What if she wasn't actually a lady? or, better still, not even human? And why would she help Arthur? What if she wasn't good at all? What if she was a real monster,like a very smart psychopath?". Nix's is a dark tale, while Neil Gaiman's "Chivalry"---in which Mrs. Whitaker finds the Holy Grail in a second-hand shop, and Galahad must trade something for it that will look just as good on her mantle---is completely hillarious. These two short stories, for example, have not been compiled under the same volume yet, but they would certainly fit well in an anthology of Arthuriana.
This is what I had in mind when I voiced my preference for a themed anthology: a show of alternatives, explorations, talent, wit, etc. The instigating sentence/theme could be anything like: The Book Is Dead, Long Live the Book, (I just threw that here, it's not my official theme proposal) or whatever tickles us. And then the quest would be for us to go find stories, published stories, that showed the many ways one can talk about that.
-karina
mord...@gmail.com
Feb 3, 2009, 9:20:56 AM2/3/09
to ozymandias
Well-- I really like the term "quiltbag" & wouldn't mind seeing it
sort of championed; it is a nice turn of phrase. Heck, there could be
a "quiltbag" approach to a variety of subjects-- quiltbag Arthurian,
quiltbag Sci-Fi, quiltbag mystery, whatever; a series of anthologies.
On Feb 2, 6:28 pm, Karina Melendez <simula...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I like themed anthologies for the same reason I enjoy cover songs, or @U2's
> *Like a Song* <http://www.atu2.com/news/search.src?Key=like+a+song&Cat=12>section---I'm
> Live the Book*, (I just threw that here, it's not my official theme
sort of championed; it is a nice turn of phrase. Heck, there could be
a "quiltbag" approach to a variety of subjects-- quiltbag Arthurian,
quiltbag Sci-Fi, quiltbag mystery, whatever; a series of anthologies.
On Feb 2, 6:28 pm, Karina Melendez <simula...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I like themed anthologies for the same reason I enjoy cover songs, or @U2's
> curious to see how different artists appropriate or develop or
> build on a similar foundation. I'm often surprised by the variety, rather
> than disappointed by the sameness.
>
> I'm not exactly a fan of Arthuriana-type fiction, and yet I've found myself
> delighted by stories such as Garth Nix's "Under the Lake"---which Nix wrote
> after asking himself questions about the Lady of the Lake: "*What would it
> build on a similar foundation. I'm often surprised by the variety, rather
> than disappointed by the sameness.
>
> I'm not exactly a fan of Arthuriana-type fiction, and yet I've found myself
> delighted by stories such as Garth Nix's "Under the Lake"---which Nix wrote
> be like living way down deep? Why would she choose to live there? What if
> she wasn't actually a lady? or, better still, not even human? And why would
> she help Arthur? What if she wasn't good at all? What if she was a real
> monster,like a very smart psychopath?*". Nix's is a dark tale, while Neil
> she wasn't actually a lady? or, better still, not even human? And why would
> she help Arthur? What if she wasn't good at all? What if she was a real
> Gaiman's "Chivalry"---in which Mrs. Whitaker finds the Holy Grail in a
> second-hand shop, and Galahad must trade something for it that will look
> just as good on her mantle---is completely hillarious. These two short
> stories, for example, have not been compiled under the same volume yet, but
> they would certainly fit well in an anthology of Arthuriana.
>
> This is what I had in mind when I voiced my preference for a themed
> anthology: a show of alternatives, explorations, talent, wit, etc. The
> instigating sentence/theme could be anything like: *The Book Is Dead, Long
> second-hand shop, and Galahad must trade something for it that will look
> just as good on her mantle---is completely hillarious. These two short
> stories, for example, have not been compiled under the same volume yet, but
> they would certainly fit well in an anthology of Arthuriana.
>
> This is what I had in mind when I voiced my preference for a themed
> anthology: a show of alternatives, explorations, talent, wit, etc. The
> Live the Book*, (I just threw that here, it's not my official theme
Leela
Feb 3, 2009, 9:28:06 AM2/3/09
to ozymandias
Hi, Jeremy,
I'm sorry, I didn't see the rename in the old thread--google groups
seems to handle the subject changes oddly--and this was a new thread.
I don't know if I can change the whole thread title or not. Focus,
theme, whatever you like. I'm not trying to be controlling about it.
I was just casting about for language to describe the discussion. "No
Theme" is a perfectly reasonable conclusion.
Leela
I'm sorry, I didn't see the rename in the old thread--google groups
seems to handle the subject changes oddly--and this was a new thread.
I don't know if I can change the whole thread title or not. Focus,
theme, whatever you like. I'm not trying to be controlling about it.
I was just casting about for language to describe the discussion. "No
Theme" is a perfectly reasonable conclusion.
Leela
Leela
Feb 3, 2009, 9:31:05 AM2/3/09
to ozymandias
Moved from orphan thread with same title:
As I have said before, the main talent I have is as a reader. I like
complex psychological adventure filled with menace, danger, unique
love stories, etc. I don't ask much, do I. You people have already
gotten far beyond me in contacts with authors and publishing
expertise, but I am willing to help in any way I can.
--barbara sanchez
As I have said before, the main talent I have is as a reader. I like
complex psychological adventure filled with menace, danger, unique
love stories, etc. I don't ask much, do I. You people have already
gotten far beyond me in contacts with authors and publishing
expertise, but I am willing to help in any way I can.
--barbara sanchez
JenniferD
Feb 3, 2009, 2:45:49 PM2/3/09
to ozymandias
I think it's good that you started this thread Leela (whatever it's
called). It was my mistake to start discussing this in another
thread.
I don't think I can contribute much to the theme/no theme/focus
discussion since I rarely even buy anthologies.
I was thinking of a theme being a good thing from a marketing aspect -
thinking that it might be easier to promote that way.
However, since we are looking to attract new people as readers, then
maybe my opinion is relevant. I don't buy anthologies much because
I'm generally not a short story fan. Call me shallow or whatever, but
I hate it when I'm just getting into a story and then it's over.
Notable exceptions are Kelley's Dangerous Space and Nicola's
collection. I love them both. They certainly work well, but they
have a reason for being together as they are all by the same author.
Anyway, I just think we need a hook - both for readers and for
authors. What is the reason for this anthology? Best damn stories of
the year? A collection of quiltbag stuff? It's to be something more
than 'this is the people we know who would contribute.' IMO. Or at
least we have to make up a reason after we see the stories.
I'm not thrilled about the queer thing, but I'm ok with it. I'm
definitely queer, but I get tired of hearing about it sometimes....
At first I thought it might eliminate too many people, but that's dumb
- we can't be afraid to eliminate readers. We just need a lot of
people to like what we are doing - not everyone.
Jennifer
called). It was my mistake to start discussing this in another
thread.
I don't think I can contribute much to the theme/no theme/focus
discussion since I rarely even buy anthologies.
I was thinking of a theme being a good thing from a marketing aspect -
thinking that it might be easier to promote that way.
However, since we are looking to attract new people as readers, then
maybe my opinion is relevant. I don't buy anthologies much because
I'm generally not a short story fan. Call me shallow or whatever, but
I hate it when I'm just getting into a story and then it's over.
Notable exceptions are Kelley's Dangerous Space and Nicola's
collection. I love them both. They certainly work well, but they
have a reason for being together as they are all by the same author.
Anyway, I just think we need a hook - both for readers and for
authors. What is the reason for this anthology? Best damn stories of
the year? A collection of quiltbag stuff? It's to be something more
than 'this is the people we know who would contribute.' IMO. Or at
least we have to make up a reason after we see the stories.
I'm not thrilled about the queer thing, but I'm ok with it. I'm
definitely queer, but I get tired of hearing about it sometimes....
At first I thought it might eliminate too many people, but that's dumb
- we can't be afraid to eliminate readers. We just need a lot of
people to like what we are doing - not everyone.
Jennifer
JenniferD
Feb 3, 2009, 3:33:23 PM2/3/09
to ozymandias
Forgot to respond to Kelley's question about illustrating. I'm for it
as long as it doesn't take to long and cost too much. Even if we
can't afford to illustrate every story, I think it would be a good
idea to do at least part of them. But maybe we need to work that out
before we approach the authors - that might be a factor for them.
Jennifer
as long as it doesn't take to long and cost too much. Even if we
can't afford to illustrate every story, I think it would be a good
idea to do at least part of them. But maybe we need to work that out
before we approach the authors - that might be a factor for them.
Jennifer
Jeremy H. Griffith
Feb 5, 2009, 5:06:25 PM2/5/09
to ozyma...@googlegroups.com
On Mon, 02 Feb 2009 14:54:13 -0800, Kelley Eskridge
<kel...@kelleyeskridge.com> wrote:
<kel...@kelleyeskridge.com> wrote:
>Actually, no, I don't think we agree on this. I don't think we need
>a antho in which every story can, for example, be somehow described
>as quiltbag. I don't think a journey is the same thing as a unifying
>idea. And I don't think that the only choice is "unifying idea" or
>"random set."
This intrigues me. What other choices do you see?
Personally, I buy an anthology based on the authors in it.
If one or more of my faves are there, I buy it. I couldn't
care less about the anthology theme or lack of one. And
I really don't buy that many anthologies; I bought the
"Bending the Landscape" ones because Nicola's name was
on the cover, and another because Patricia Briggs had a
story in it, but that's about it in the last few years.
Of course, I do buy single-author collections regularly,
like Dangerous Space, Carol Emshwiller's one, and a few
of the Aqueduct little ones. But mainly I buy novels.
With one of Nicola's stories (and hopefully one of yours)
in the project, I'd certainly buy *that*, regardless.
But I already know I'm idiosyncratic <g>, and think we
need a broader appeal than I'd need myself. So maybe
the real question here isn't what we like ourselves,
but what our target audience would like. And who are
they, anyway? We need to define that first.
Love and Light,
--Jeremy
Bear aka HNU
Feb 6, 2009, 11:40:01 AM2/6/09
to ozymandias
First, we need to know if we want a genre anthology. And, if we decide
on genre, will it be science fiction only? Or fantasy only? Or horror?
Or do we want a mix of all these? I think it's one of the things that
needs to be in the manifesto/pitch letter/whatever.
As for theme ideas... A couple years ago I edited an anthology of
mostly F novellas and novelettes, a little nice thing centered around
the idea of "transformation". It was a reprint anthology (but the
stories were translated for the first time in Romanian) and it had
stories by Jeff VanderMeer ("Transformation of Martin Lake"), Nicola
("Yaguara"), K.J. Bishop ("Maldoror in the world") and Marian Coman (a
very talented Romanian author who had just received the EuroCon
award). Aside from the idea of transformation, all authors were
realtively young, had at least one book recently translated in Romania
and had at least one major award in their pocket. I know these are
kind of "made-up" criteria, but the result was quite balanced and not
at all repetitive. And all the reviewers saw it as a "fresh book".
What I'm trying to say is that we don't need avery focused theme, but
something more like a unifying one. This will allow us to include a
wider range of stories... I think.
My best to you from far away Romania and have a great weekend!
Horia
on genre, will it be science fiction only? Or fantasy only? Or horror?
Or do we want a mix of all these? I think it's one of the things that
needs to be in the manifesto/pitch letter/whatever.
As for theme ideas... A couple years ago I edited an anthology of
mostly F novellas and novelettes, a little nice thing centered around
the idea of "transformation". It was a reprint anthology (but the
stories were translated for the first time in Romanian) and it had
stories by Jeff VanderMeer ("Transformation of Martin Lake"), Nicola
("Yaguara"), K.J. Bishop ("Maldoror in the world") and Marian Coman (a
very talented Romanian author who had just received the EuroCon
award). Aside from the idea of transformation, all authors were
realtively young, had at least one book recently translated in Romania
and had at least one major award in their pocket. I know these are
kind of "made-up" criteria, but the result was quite balanced and not
at all repetitive. And all the reviewers saw it as a "fresh book".
What I'm trying to say is that we don't need avery focused theme, but
something more like a unifying one. This will allow us to include a
wider range of stories... I think.
My best to you from far away Romania and have a great weekend!
Horia
Leela
Mar 12, 2009, 10:01:28 AM3/12/09
to ozymandias
We seem to have stalled. Do we need a deadline for a decision on this
so we can move forward?
so we can move forward?
Adam Lowe
Mar 12, 2009, 10:20:46 AM3/12/09
to ozyma...@googlegroups.com
I think it should be something to do with the name Ozymandias. Or
maybe it should just be the name, and we let writers interpret that
how they want?
On 3/12/09, Leela <ell...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> We seem to have stalled. Do we need a deadline for a decision on this
> so we can move forward?
> >
>
--
Sent from Google Mail for mobile | mobile.google.com
Regards
Adam Lowe
Features Editor
Bent [http://mag.bent.com]
Editor-in-Chief
Polluto [http://www.polluto.com]
Publisher/Editor
Dog Horn Publishing [http://www.doghornpublishing.com]
Mobile: +44 (0) 7906 242 232
Office: +44 (0) 113 279 3573
If you would like to stop receiving these emails, please reply with
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maybe it should just be the name, and we let writers interpret that
how they want?
On 3/12/09, Leela <ell...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> We seem to have stalled. Do we need a deadline for a decision on this
> so we can move forward?
> >
>
Sent from Google Mail for mobile | mobile.google.com
Regards
Adam Lowe
Features Editor
Bent [http://mag.bent.com]
Editor-in-Chief
Polluto [http://www.polluto.com]
Publisher/Editor
Dog Horn Publishing [http://www.doghornpublishing.com]
Mobile: +44 (0) 7906 242 232
Office: +44 (0) 113 279 3573
If you would like to stop receiving these emails, please reply with
UNSUBSCRIBE in the subject.
barbara sanchez
Mar 18, 2009, 12:19:38 PM3/18/09
to ozyma...@googlegroups.com
| Yes, we need a deadline, especially for "just" readers like me. Nicola seems content to let us run this. Maybe we should have --- On Thu, 3/12/09, Leela <ell...@gmail.com> wrote: |
Adam Lowe
Mar 19, 2009, 1:10:45 AM3/19/09
to ozyma...@googlegroups.com
Hmmm . . . well I agree. Shall we say end of the month? So by April 1st we need a theme. And if we can't agree, majority wins. If there's only one suggestion, then that's automatically chosen.
Deal?
--
Deal?
2009/3/18 barbara sanchez <sanchez...@att.net>
--
Jennifer Durham
Mar 19, 2009, 1:23:32 AM3/19/09
to ozyma...@googlegroups.com
I’m with you. End of month.
But theme or no them first. If theme wins, then we vote on theme – one week to vote on that if necessary.
And yes, majority wins, no quorum.
I think we are all just slammed with stuff/work lately.
Jennifer
But theme or no them first. If theme wins, then we vote on theme – one week to vote on that if necessary.
And yes, majority wins, no quorum.
I think we are all just slammed with stuff/work lately.
Jennifer
On 3/18/09 10:10 PM, "Adam Lowe" <bey...@gmail.com> wrote:
Hmmm . . . well I agree. Shall we say end of the month? So by April 1st we need a theme. And if we can't agree, majority wins. If there's only one suggestion, then that's automatically chosen.
Deal?
2009/3/18 barbara sanchez <sanchez...@att.net>
Yes, we need a deadline, especially for "just" readers like me. Nicola seems content to let us run this. Maybe we should have
--- On Thu, 3/12/09, Leela <ell...@gmail.com> wrote:
From: Leela <ell...@gmail.com>
Subject: [ozymandias:224] Re: Anthology's Theme
To: "ozymandias" <ozyma...@googlegroups.com>
Date: Thursday, March 12, 2009, 9:01 AM
We seem to have stalled. Do we need a deadline for a decision on this
so we can move forward?
--
barbara sanchez
Mar 19, 2009, 1:41:18 AM3/19/09
to ozyma...@googlegroups.com
| I vote for theme. Something to do with apocalypse now, maybe. --- On Thu, 3/19/09, Jennifer Durham <in...@jenniferdurham.com> wrote: |
Jennifer Durham
Mar 19, 2009, 1:53:56 AM3/19/09
to ozyma...@googlegroups.com
I vote no theme.
But I know some people were discussing focus as well as theme. So maybe we need to say theme/no theme and focus/no focus?
Jennifer
But I know some people were discussing focus as well as theme. So maybe we need to say theme/no theme and focus/no focus?
Jennifer
Realmcovet
Mar 19, 2009, 8:44:08 AM3/19/09
to ozymandias
I will go with whatever the general consensus here is. I'm just happy
to be on board with you all. We still haven't heard how Nicola feels
about all this except that she's not crazy about theme, or was it
Kelley who said that? Either way, I'm with whatever's going to make
everyone the most agreeable. To be honest, I really like Adam's idea
of utilizing the whole of "Ozymandias" as theme, but I will go with
whatever majority rules.
On Mar 19, 12:53 am, Jennifer Durham <i...@jenniferdurham.com> wrote:
> I vote no theme.
>
> But I know some people were discussing focus as well as theme. So maybe we
> need to say theme/no theme and focus/no focus?
>
> Jennifer
>
> >> From: Jennifer Durham <i...@jenniferdurham.com>
> >>>>> From: Leela <elle...@gmail.com>
>
> - Show quoted text -
to be on board with you all. We still haven't heard how Nicola feels
about all this except that she's not crazy about theme, or was it
Kelley who said that? Either way, I'm with whatever's going to make
everyone the most agreeable. To be honest, I really like Adam's idea
of utilizing the whole of "Ozymandias" as theme, but I will go with
whatever majority rules.
On Mar 19, 12:53 am, Jennifer Durham <i...@jenniferdurham.com> wrote:
> I vote no theme.
>
> But I know some people were discussing focus as well as theme. So maybe we
> need to say theme/no theme and focus/no focus?
>
> Jennifer
>
> On 3/18/09 10:41 PM, "barbara sanchez" <sanchez-barb...@att.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > I vote for theme. Something to do with apocalypse now, maybe.
>
> > --- On Thu, 3/19/09, Jennifer Durham <i...@jenniferdurham.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > I vote for theme. Something to do with apocalypse now, maybe.
>
> >> From: Jennifer Durham <i...@jenniferdurham.com>
> >> Subject: [ozymandias:230] Re: Anthology's Theme
> >> To: ozyma...@googlegroups.com
> >> Date: Thursday, March 19, 2009, 12:23 AM
>
> >> I¹m with you. End of month.
>
> >> But theme or no them first. If theme wins, then we vote on theme one week
> >> to vote on that if necessary.
>
> >> And yes, majority wins, no quorum.
>
> >> I think we are all just slammed with stuff/work lately.
>
> >> Jennifer
>
> >> To: ozyma...@googlegroups.com
> >> Date: Thursday, March 19, 2009, 12:23 AM
>
> >> I¹m with you. End of month.
>
> >> But theme or no them first. If theme wins, then we vote on theme one week
> >> to vote on that if necessary.
>
> >> And yes, majority wins, no quorum.
>
> >> I think we are all just slammed with stuff/work lately.
>
> >> Jennifer
>
> >> On 3/18/09 10:10 PM, "Adam Lowe" <beyo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>> Hmmm . . . well I agree. Shall we say end of the month? So by April 1st we
> >>> need a theme. And if we can't agree, majority wins. If there's only one
> >>> suggestion, then that's automatically chosen.
>
> >>> Deal?
>
> >>> 2009/3/18 barbara sanchez <sanchez-barb...@att.net>
>
> >>> Hmmm . . . well I agree. Shall we say end of the month? So by April 1st we
> >>> need a theme. And if we can't agree, majority wins. If there's only one
> >>> suggestion, then that's automatically chosen.
>
> >>> Deal?
>
> >>>> Yes, we need a deadline, especially for "just" readers like me. Nicola
> >>>> seems content to let us run this. Maybe we should have
>
> >>>> --- On Thu, 3/12/09, Leela <elle...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> seems content to let us run this. Maybe we should have
>
> >>>>> From: Leela <elle...@gmail.com>
> >>>>> Subject: [ozymandias:224] Re: Anthology's Theme
> >>>>> To: "ozymandias" <ozyma...@googlegroups.com>
> >>>>> Date: Thursday, March 12, 2009, 9:01 AM
>
> >>>>> We seem to have stalled. Do we need a deadline for a decision on this
> >>>>> so we can move forward?
>
> --http://www.lightcomingback.comhttp://www.jenniferdurham.com- Hide quoted text -
> >>>>> To: "ozymandias" <ozyma...@googlegroups.com>
> >>>>> Date: Thursday, March 12, 2009, 9:01 AM
>
> >>>>> We seem to have stalled. Do we need a deadline for a decision on this
> >>>>> so we can move forward?
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
Adam Lowe
Mar 19, 2009, 8:58:08 AM3/19/09
to ozyma...@googlegroups.com
Ozymandias could be interpreted quite widely as well. It could deal
with ancient societies, creative works, pride, fall, legacy,
sculpture, antiquity, ancient artefacts, indiana jones-style
adventures, world domination.
--
Sent from my mobile device
with ancient societies, creative works, pride, fall, legacy,
sculpture, antiquity, ancient artefacts, indiana jones-style
adventures, world domination.
Sent from my mobile device
Jennifer Durham
Mar 19, 2009, 9:57:05 AM3/19/09
to ozyma...@googlegroups.com
We will all go with whatever the consensus turns out to be, but first we must have a consensus. Yes, we need your honest opinion/vote.
If theme wins, then we can pick a theme. First we have to have the decisions theme/no theme.
I like the Ozy idea, but I think it might be better to do it after the first test run. If we are ever actually going to do this.
Jennifer
If theme wins, then we can pick a theme. First we have to have the decisions theme/no theme.
I like the Ozy idea, but I think it might be better to do it after the first test run. If we are ever actually going to do this.
Jennifer
Jeremy H. Griffith
Mar 19, 2009, 4:21:24 PM3/19/09
to ozyma...@googlegroups.com
On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 22:53:56 -0700, Jennifer Durham
<in...@jenniferdurham.com> wrote:
<in...@jenniferdurham.com> wrote:
>I vote no theme.
>
>But I know some people were discussing focus as well as theme.
>So maybe we need to say theme/no theme and focus/no focus?
I think I'm the one who offered "focus". I did that in
response to Kelley's unhappiness with "theme", mainly in
an attempt to work out what she meant by "no theme". But
she told me I was still not getting her point, and when
I asked her to explain, said no more...
Since you also want "no theme", perhaps you can explain
what you *do* want. Frankly, I cannot imagine an anthology
with no theme at all. What would we title it? "Book"?
Even "bottom of the slush pile" is a theme... ;-)
My last two posts were of calls for submission for anthologies,
both from feminist SF lists (Laura Quilter's and BroadUniverse).
Both seem to have distinct themes; in fact, I've never seen
a call that didn't, nor an anthology on the shelf that didn't.
If anyone here *has*, please post the call/title; I'd like
to *understand* the alternatives before voting. ;-)
Just as an aside.... this numbering in the subject header
completely prevents my mail client from threading; each post
is a new thread, which makes following discussions difficult.
Is it actually helpful to anyone? If not, can we please shut
it off? Thanks!
-- Jeremy H. Griffith <jer...@omsys.com>
http://www.omsys.com/
Kelley Eskridge
Mar 19, 2009, 4:34:42 PM3/19/09
to ozyma...@googlegroups.com
Sorry, thought I had responded. Must have just had the conversation
in my head and forgotten the actual "communication" part. :) Sorry, Jeremy.
I think that if we're talking, for example, about a reprint anthology
of stories from speculative fiction authors, that's enough of a theme
for me. If the editorial selection process is a good one, then the
taste of that person or group guides a selection of interesting,
varied, compelling stories. An anthology of well-written, "oh look,
isn't it cool to have all these great stories by people in one book"
antho is more than enough for me. I don't need it to be LGBT or
Alien Visitations or Alternate History or anything else.
Find a bunch of really good stories that authors are willing to
donate for reprint to an experiment in new media/multimedia marketing
(that's us). Find a cool title. And then spend our real energies on
the marketing, PR, and correlary art/media that we've been talking about.
My 2+ cents. Jeremy, let me know if I have answered this in
sufficient depth. I'm in a rush right now and so may not be as clear
as I'd like...
K
in my head and forgotten the actual "communication" part. :) Sorry, Jeremy.
I think that if we're talking, for example, about a reprint anthology
of stories from speculative fiction authors, that's enough of a theme
for me. If the editorial selection process is a good one, then the
taste of that person or group guides a selection of interesting,
varied, compelling stories. An anthology of well-written, "oh look,
isn't it cool to have all these great stories by people in one book"
antho is more than enough for me. I don't need it to be LGBT or
Alien Visitations or Alternate History or anything else.
Find a bunch of really good stories that authors are willing to
donate for reprint to an experiment in new media/multimedia marketing
(that's us). Find a cool title. And then spend our real energies on
the marketing, PR, and correlary art/media that we've been talking about.
My 2+ cents. Jeremy, let me know if I have answered this in
sufficient depth. I'm in a rush right now and so may not be as clear
as I'd like...
K
karina
Mar 20, 2009, 12:24:46 AM3/20/09
to ozymandias
I'll give you a glimpse of the shelves (and mind) of this anthology
slut called Karina. If I'm going to buy an anthology, I need theme and
focus; the more defined, the better. I will also fall for those whose
editors I trust: Nicola, Michael Moorcock, etc. In my opinion, if we
don't have a specific, rather narrow theme, we need a superstar editor
to set the tone of the anthology.
When I was younger, I did go for Best of Whatever anthologies, but
I've long since given them away to the library because they feel too
broad and the stories are often reprinted elsewhere---I extend this
perception of mine to anthologies of poetry as well.
These is a sampling of the anthologies I did keep, and continue to
spend time with every now and then: http://kemotes.com/anthologies.html
slut called Karina. If I'm going to buy an anthology, I need theme and
focus; the more defined, the better. I will also fall for those whose
editors I trust: Nicola, Michael Moorcock, etc. In my opinion, if we
don't have a specific, rather narrow theme, we need a superstar editor
to set the tone of the anthology.
When I was younger, I did go for Best of Whatever anthologies, but
I've long since given them away to the library because they feel too
broad and the stories are often reprinted elsewhere---I extend this
perception of mine to anthologies of poetry as well.
These is a sampling of the anthologies I did keep, and continue to
spend time with every now and then: http://kemotes.com/anthologies.html
Adam Lowe
Mar 20, 2009, 12:38:33 AM3/20/09
to ozyma...@googlegroups.com
Okay, well 'Ozymandias' as a title still allows us the focus of spec
fic reprints by established authors. We can set out a mission
statement of 'unearthing rare, old, lost, classical or beautiful
treasures', which would fit the title nicely, methinks. This first
project could be 'Ozymandias 1' and that would be enough. It also
establishes that these aren't just any old reprints, but valuable ones
hard to find elsewhere. Otherwise, where's the attraction to buyers?
fic reprints by established authors. We can set out a mission
statement of 'unearthing rare, old, lost, classical or beautiful
treasures', which would fit the title nicely, methinks. This first
project could be 'Ozymandias 1' and that would be enough. It also
establishes that these aren't just any old reprints, but valuable ones
hard to find elsewhere. Otherwise, where's the attraction to buyers?
--
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