First book
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Michael Minutillo
Apr 20, 2010, 4:43:53 AM4/20/10
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We need to decide which book we are going to read first. Here's my list (from the poll) and my reasoning:
Design Pattern by Gamma, Helm, Johnson and Vlissides: The grand-daddy of people reading and thinking they get it. Reading this would give us the option of discussing each design pattern in some detail. Whether or not they still apply. Any alternatives, etc.
Cons: This book is pretty old and can be a little dry. Plus a lot of people have already absorbed it somewhat
The Pragmatic Programmer by Dave Thomas and Any Hunt: The book that I'd recommend to every new student, fresh out of uni. It's light, quick, easy and full of great tips.
Cons: Anyone that's been in the industry for a while will probably be saying "yes, I know" a lot. Still good to revisit despite all that
Cons: Anyone that's been in the industry for a while will probably be saying "yes, I know" a lot. Still good to revisit despite all that
Domain Driven Design by Eric Evans: DDD is a technique that I'd really like to try (properly). This could raise discussions about persistence ignorance, project and team structure, immutability, code generation
Cons: Might be a bit heavy to start with and several folks I know just finished re-reading it
Cons: Might be a bit heavy to start with and several folks I know just finished re-reading it
Clean Code by Robert C. Martin: Very similar to The Pragmatic Programmer. Some great rules and regulations with a few really great examples towards the end.
Cons: ...
Cons: ...
Refactoring by Martin Fowler: Great book about a technique that is widely misunderstood as "changing sh$t around".
Cons: This book is mostly a catalog so not sure how interesting it is to read it cover to cover
Cons: This book is mostly a catalog so not sure how interesting it is to read it cover to cover
Also Ran:
The Mythical Man Month by Fred Brooks: "Nine women cannot make a baby in a single month"
Don't Make Me Think by Steve Krug
Interested but don't own:
Agile Principles, Practices and Pattens by Robert C. Martin (I do have access to a copy and this is a fascinating read)
The Inmates Are Running The Asylum (I've read this too and it is very very good)
The Inmates Are Running The Asylum (I've read this too and it is very very good)
Patterns of Enterprise Application Architecture
Working Effectively with Legacy Code by Michael Feathers (I still wish this had a tagline of "And it's all legacy code")
Do own but unsure:
Code Complete by Steve McConnell: The developers holy book. Refer to it for guidance but it's a bit dense to read cover to cover
Anyone want to add to that list? Got a book you've been meaning to read? Got one you wish everyone else would read?
Paul Batum
Apr 20, 2010, 5:38:59 AM4/20/10
to ozdev-bookclub
My suggestions (pasted from the other thread):
- Code Complete (Steve McConnell)
- Real World Functional Programming (Tomas Petricek, Jon Skeet)
- The Passionate Programmer (Chad Fowler)
- The Little Schemer (Daniel P. Friedman, Matthias Felleisen)
- Release it! (Michael Nygard)
- The Algorithm Design Manual (Steve Skiena)
- DSLs In Boo (Ayende Rahien)
- xUnit Test Patterns (Gerard Meszaros)
- Real World Functional Programming (Tomas Petricek, Jon Skeet)
- The Passionate Programmer (Chad Fowler)
- The Little Schemer (Daniel P. Friedman, Matthias Felleisen)
- Release it! (Michael Nygard)
- The Algorithm Design Manual (Steve Skiena)
- DSLs In Boo (Ayende Rahien)
- xUnit Test Patterns (Gerard Meszaros)
I agree with the cons you've listed. Of the ones you mentioned that you were interested in but don't own, I'd definitely be keen for The Inmates are Running the Asylum as I haven't tried that one yet, and the other books are all great and I would definitely enjoy the discussion on them.
baralong
Apr 21, 2010, 12:03:52 AM4/21/10
to Australian Programmers Book Club
All this sounds good,
I read the mythical man month years ago, but don't have it.
The progmatic programmer is a great one, and inspite of your cons I
think there's enough to talk about, BTW anything from the pragmatic
book shelf (http://pragprog.com/ ) would be great, as it's very ebook
friendly
The passionate programmer sounds really good too
I've got Code complete, but haven't read it
I'd also put in a vote for The Design of Every Day Things (http://
www.amazon.com/Design-Everyday-Things-Donald-Norman/dp/0385267746 )
not a programming book, but relly good for thinking about UI
I'd generally vote for non-technology specific books at first, just to
get this going, and also non-programming books that lend themselves to
technical problems (like Design of Every Day Things)
In any case, count me in
Cheers,
Doug
On Apr 20, 5:38 pm, Paul Batum <paul.ba...@gmail.com> wrote:
> My suggestions (pasted from the other thread):
>
> - Code Complete (Steve McConnell)
> - Real World Functional Programming (Tomas Petricek, Jon Skeet)
> - The Passionate Programmer (Chad Fowler)
> - The Little Schemer (Daniel P. Friedman, Matthias Felleisen)
> - Release it! (Michael Nygard)
> - The Algorithm Design Manual (Steve Skiena)
> - DSLs In Boo (Ayende Rahien)
> - xUnit Test Patterns (Gerard Meszaros)
>
> I agree with the cons you've listed. Of the ones you mentioned that you were
> interested in but don't own, I'd definitely be keen for The Inmates are
> Running the Asylum as I haven't tried that one yet, and the other books are
> all great and I would definitely enjoy the discussion on them.
>
> On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 6:43 PM, Michael Minutillo <
>
>
>
>
>
> michael.minuti...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > We need to decide which book we are going to read first. Here's my list
> > (from the poll) and my reasoning:
>
> > *Design Pattern by Gamma, Helm, Johnson and Vlissides:* The grand-daddy of
> Subscription settings:http://groups.google.com/group/ozdev-bookclub/subscribe?hl=en- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
I read the mythical man month years ago, but don't have it.
The progmatic programmer is a great one, and inspite of your cons I
think there's enough to talk about, BTW anything from the pragmatic
book shelf (http://pragprog.com/ ) would be great, as it's very ebook
friendly
The passionate programmer sounds really good too
I've got Code complete, but haven't read it
I'd also put in a vote for The Design of Every Day Things (http://
www.amazon.com/Design-Everyday-Things-Donald-Norman/dp/0385267746 )
not a programming book, but relly good for thinking about UI
I'd generally vote for non-technology specific books at first, just to
get this going, and also non-programming books that lend themselves to
technical problems (like Design of Every Day Things)
In any case, count me in
Cheers,
Doug
On Apr 20, 5:38 pm, Paul Batum <paul.ba...@gmail.com> wrote:
> My suggestions (pasted from the other thread):
>
> - Code Complete (Steve McConnell)
> - Real World Functional Programming (Tomas Petricek, Jon Skeet)
> - The Passionate Programmer (Chad Fowler)
> - The Little Schemer (Daniel P. Friedman, Matthias Felleisen)
> - Release it! (Michael Nygard)
> - The Algorithm Design Manual (Steve Skiena)
> - DSLs In Boo (Ayende Rahien)
> - xUnit Test Patterns (Gerard Meszaros)
>
> I agree with the cons you've listed. Of the ones you mentioned that you were
> interested in but don't own, I'd definitely be keen for The Inmates are
> Running the Asylum as I haven't tried that one yet, and the other books are
> all great and I would definitely enjoy the discussion on them.
>
> On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 6:43 PM, Michael Minutillo <
>
>
>
>
>
> michael.minuti...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > We need to decide which book we are going to read first. Here's my list
> > (from the poll) and my reasoning:
>
> > people reading and thinking they get it. Reading this would give us the
> > option of discussing each design pattern in some detail. Whether or not they
> > still apply. Any alternatives, etc.
> > Cons: This book is pretty old and can be a little dry. Plus a lot of people
> > have already absorbed it somewhat
>
> > *The Pragmatic Programmer by Dave Thomas and Any Hunt:* The book that I'd
> > option of discussing each design pattern in some detail. Whether or not they
> > still apply. Any alternatives, etc.
> > Cons: This book is pretty old and can be a little dry. Plus a lot of people
> > have already absorbed it somewhat
>
> > recommend to every new student, fresh out of uni. It's light, quick, easy
> > and full of great tips.
> > Cons: Anyone that's been in the industry for a while will probably be
> > saying "yes, I know" a lot. Still good to revisit despite all that
>
> > *Domain Driven Design by Eric Evans:* DDD is a technique that I'd really
> > and full of great tips.
> > Cons: Anyone that's been in the industry for a while will probably be
> > saying "yes, I know" a lot. Still good to revisit despite all that
>
> > like to try (properly). This could raise discussions about persistence
> > ignorance, project and team structure, immutability, code generation
> > Cons: Might be a bit heavy to start with and several folks I know just
> > finished re-reading it
>
> > *Clean Code by Robert C. Martin:* Very similar to The Pragmatic
> > ignorance, project and team structure, immutability, code generation
> > Cons: Might be a bit heavy to start with and several folks I know just
> > finished re-reading it
>
> > Programmer. Some great rules and regulations with a few really great
> > examples towards the end.
> > Cons: ...
>
> > *Refactoring by Martin Fowler: *Great book about a technique that is
> > examples towards the end.
> > Cons: ...
>
> > widely misunderstood as "changing sh$t around".
> > Cons: This book is mostly a catalog so not sure how interesting it is to
> > read it cover to cover
>
> > *Also Ran:*
> > Cons: This book is mostly a catalog so not sure how interesting it is to
> > read it cover to cover
>
> > The Mythical Man Month by Fred Brooks: "Nine women cannot make a baby in a
> > single month"
> > Don't Make Me Think by Steve Krug
>
> > *Interested but don't own:*
> > single month"
> > Don't Make Me Think by Steve Krug
>
> > Agile Principles, Practices and Pattens by Robert C. Martin (I do have
> > access to a copy and this is a fascinating read)
> > The Inmates Are Running The Asylum (I've read this too and it is very very
> > good)
> > Patterns of Enterprise Application Architecture
> > Working Effectively with Legacy Code by Michael Feathers (I still wish this
> > had a tagline of "And it's all legacy code")
>
> > *Do own but unsure:*
> > access to a copy and this is a fascinating read)
> > The Inmates Are Running The Asylum (I've read this too and it is very very
> > good)
> > Patterns of Enterprise Application Architecture
> > Working Effectively with Legacy Code by Michael Feathers (I still wish this
> > had a tagline of "And it's all legacy code")
>
> > Code Complete by Steve McConnell: The developers holy book. Refer to it for
> > guidance but it's a bit dense to read cover to cover
>
> > Anyone want to add to that list? Got a book you've been meaning to read?
> > Got one you wish everyone else would read?
>
> > --
> > Michael M. Minutillo
> > Indiscriminate Information Sponge
> > Blog:http://wolfbyte-net.blogspot.com
>
> --
> > guidance but it's a bit dense to read cover to cover
>
> > Anyone want to add to that list? Got a book you've been meaning to read?
> > Got one you wish everyone else would read?
>
> > --
> > Michael M. Minutillo
> > Indiscriminate Information Sponge
> > Blog:http://wolfbyte-net.blogspot.com
>
> Subscription settings:http://groups.google.com/group/ozdev-bookclub/subscribe?hl=en- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Michael Minutillo
Apr 23, 2010, 7:46:21 PM4/23/10
to ozdev-b...@googlegroups.com
OK, I'm calling it.
We have 20 members which is enough for a reasonable conversation and
15 votes for The Pragmatic Programmer by Dave Thomas and Andy Hunt
http://www.pragprog.com/the-pragmatic-programmer
It's not an insanely clear winner with 14 votes each for Domain
Driven Design. Refactoring and Clean Code but it is short, reasonably
cheap and likely on many peoples bookshelves already.
I had originally intended to start one month from tomorrow but I fear
losing too much momentum. How many people already have the book? For
those that don't how long do you think it will take for you get it?
Should I set up another poll to answer this question to that the
answers remain somewhat anonymous?
P.S. Apparently if you use Redback Original with icecream you get a
"Redback Spider" which is deadly but pleasant. That might be just the
thing for whoever has the vomit-covered baby.
Regards,
Mike
We have 20 members which is enough for a reasonable conversation and
15 votes for The Pragmatic Programmer by Dave Thomas and Andy Hunt
http://www.pragprog.com/the-pragmatic-programmer
It's not an insanely clear winner with 14 votes each for Domain
Driven Design. Refactoring and Clean Code but it is short, reasonably
cheap and likely on many peoples bookshelves already.
I had originally intended to start one month from tomorrow but I fear
losing too much momentum. How many people already have the book? For
those that don't how long do you think it will take for you get it?
Should I set up another poll to answer this question to that the
answers remain somewhat anonymous?
P.S. Apparently if you use Redback Original with icecream you get a
"Redback Spider" which is deadly but pleasant. That might be just the
thing for whoever has the vomit-covered baby.
Regards,
Mike
Stonie
Apr 23, 2010, 10:58:42 PM4/23/10
to ozdev-b...@googlegroups.com
I have Pragmatic Programmer and read some time ago, but in light of this group I will skim read it as a refresher. Keen for a discussion about it too.
I went out and bought the dead tree version of DDD $69 from dymocks, and so far it's good read and a nice solid book.
Having read "Patterns of Enterprise Application Architecture" and "Applying Domain-Driven Design and Patterns" I'm looking forward to discovering what lies within DDD.
BTW I found the GOF pattern book really dry, instead I enjoyed "Design Patterns Explained: A New Perspective on Object-Oriented Design" (Alan Shalloway)
Stonie.
On Sat, Apr 24, 2010 at 9:46 AM, Michael Minutillo <michael....@gmail.com> wrote:
OK, I'm calling it.
We have 20 members which is enough for a reasonable conversation and
15 votes for The by Dave Thomas and Andy Hunt
Gareth Marshall
Apr 24, 2010, 1:44:29 AM4/24/10
to ozdev-b...@googlegroups.com
Hi
--
There's only one everything
I have the book and am good to go.
Regards
Regards
Gareth Marshall
--
There's only one everything
Peter Gfader
Apr 25, 2010, 3:59:57 AM4/25/10
to ozdev-b...@googlegroups.com
>>How many people already have the book?
Don't have it so far...
>>For those that don't how long do you think it will take for you get it?
I guess 1 week. plus another 4 weeks to read it... (its hard to estimate on how long it takes this kind of books...)
just ordered from bookdepository UK (got link from booko)
$33.40 (AUD)
>>Should I set up another poll to answer this question to that the answers remain somewhat anonymous?
ManiacD
Apr 26, 2010, 7:19:36 PM4/26/10
to ozdev-b...@googlegroups.com
--
Never trust a man who, when left alone in a room with a tea cozy, doesn't try it on. ~Billy Connolly
Never trust a man who, when left alone in a room with a tea cozy, doesn't try it on. ~Billy Connolly
Xerxes Battiwalla
Apr 26, 2010, 8:24:19 PM4/26/10
to ozdev-b...@googlegroups.com
yah that was me.
not a pleasant evening.
On Sat, Apr 24, 2010 at 9:46 AM, Michael Minutillo <michael....@gmail.com> wrote:
Michael Minutillo
Apr 26, 2010, 9:28:45 PM4/26/10
to ozdev-b...@googlegroups.com
Which was you? The beer/icecream or the baby? Either way my condolences, I've been there.
Stephen Price
Apr 26, 2010, 10:02:16 PM4/26/10
to ozdev-b...@googlegroups.com
The beer and icecream was me. I don't drink anymore. Coincidence? Perhaps...
piers7
Apr 29, 2010, 9:46:33 AM4/29/10
to Australian Programmers Book Club
Design Patterns Explained is a pretty good explanation in this area,
as is the intro chapter to Fowler's Patterns of Enterprise
Architecture. The GOF book is starting to show it's age.
> BTW I found the GOF pattern book really dry, instead I enjoyed "Design
> Patterns Explained: A New Perspective on Object-Oriented Design" (Alan
> Shalloway)
>
> Stonie.
If you want dry, read Refactoring. After many early nights I gave up
attempting to read it, and watched paint dry instead. Perhaps I should
give it another go...
Did anyone read Refactoring Databases? Any good?
as is the intro chapter to Fowler's Patterns of Enterprise
Architecture. The GOF book is starting to show it's age.
> BTW I found the GOF pattern book really dry, instead I enjoyed "Design
> Patterns Explained: A New Perspective on Object-Oriented Design" (Alan
> Shalloway)
>
> Stonie.
attempting to read it, and watched paint dry instead. Perhaps I should
give it another go...
Did anyone read Refactoring Databases? Any good?
piers7
Apr 29, 2010, 9:52:31 AM4/29/10
to Australian Programmers Book Club
Got it, read it, forgot it. But happy to bluff based on chapter
titles...
The interesting discussion here is the various merits of the smaller,
more opinionated Pragmatic Programmer, compared to the more extensive,
analytical approach that Code Complete takes. I'm not saying that
Thomas and Hunt didn't do their reseach, but McConnel has the raw
numbers right there on every page. I found that a more compelling
argument (and better ammo for upwards management)
opps - started talking about the book already
On Apr 24, 7:46 am, Michael Minutillo <michael.minuti...@gmail.com>
wrote:
titles...
The interesting discussion here is the various merits of the smaller,
more opinionated Pragmatic Programmer, compared to the more extensive,
analytical approach that Code Complete takes. I'm not saying that
Thomas and Hunt didn't do their reseach, but McConnel has the raw
numbers right there on every page. I found that a more compelling
argument (and better ammo for upwards management)
opps - started talking about the book already
On Apr 24, 7:46 am, Michael Minutillo <michael.minuti...@gmail.com>
wrote:
Mitch Wheat
Apr 29, 2010, 9:56:05 AM4/29/10
to ozdev-b...@googlegroups.com
I had such high hopes for "Refactoring Databases". I really didn't enjoy it.
Someone read it and please tell me I was wrong...!
Stonie
Apr 30, 2010, 5:54:22 AM4/30/10
to ozdev-b...@googlegroups.com
I agree, I tried to read Fowlers refactoring. it's getting crusty. so I skim read it. (It's about my workplace if I need to double check any ideas)
Having said that... In it's day... a great work, I suspect that today we may owe more to it than we realise... I'm thinking most people that use resharper have a fair section of the book auto prompted in VS.
Not saying that it's not worth the read... just that you may have to skip some stuff to avoid being reminded of things that might be common knowledge today.
Stonie.
Having said that... In it's day... a great work, I suspect that today we may owe more to it than we realise... I'm thinking most people that use resharper have a fair section of the book auto prompted in VS.
Not saying that it's not worth the read... just that you may have to skip some stuff to avoid being reminded of things that might be common knowledge today.
Stonie.
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