Military Archaeology? Army tanks converted to ag/mine machinery

[Steve Corsini]

David Baylis asked " Just out of interest . . . is anybody on this list involved-with/specialising-in Military Archaeology?"

I'm not, but I once came across two old tanks at an abandoned 1950's minesite near Pilgangora (in the middle of the Pilbara district). In a bit of a twist on "Swords into ploughshares ..." both the vehicles had been completely stripped of their turrets and superstructures, etc. but retained tracks engines drive train and steering etc

From the wheel configuration, one was 

an M3 Stuart/Honey which had been converted to a bulldozer.

The other was an M3 Lee/Grant which had been converted into an ore crusher. 

 

Both of these types of tanks were US manufactured but they were used by Australia during WW2,

so I presume they were Australian army surplus

 

Are there more of these sorts of vehicles in less remote parts of the country?

 

cheers

Steve Corsini

 

 

[IainS]

The answer is yes, there are quite a few M3 Stuarts and M3 Lee/Grants
around. The ANZAC Steel website lists 2621 Medium tanks as being
brought to Australia and 370 Stuarts. There were also a considerable
number of "Bren Gun" carriers which were locally produced. A careful
google search will find their locations.

Regarding Military Archaeology there is a discussion list whose
details are below:

Military archaeology and architecture

A discussion list on military archaeology and military architecture.
This list relates to the physical remains of military activity from
all periods of history. The subject also includes civil defence.

MILI...@JISCMAIL.AC.UK

[Jeannette Hope]

Back in the 1990s, we recorded at Lake Victoria some fragments of crashed
Wirraways from the RAAF No 2 OTU based at Mildura in 1942. Only fragments,
because they had a crash recovery unit which removed the planes. There were
a lot of crashes, and 52 deaths in training (there's a military cemetery at
Mildura). One plane which crashed into Lake Victoria has never been
recovered. There are also the remains of a 'mock battleship' - a bombing
target near Wentworth, which I haven't got round to yet.

There are a number of WW2 locations along the Murray - the Lake Boga flying
boat base, and another bombing range somewhere near Nhill (near the Little
Desert, Vic), as well, as the internment camps at Tatura and Loveday.

Just in passing, whatever happened to all those big guns that used to sit in
every suburban park when I was a child (in the 40s and 50s)? The only place
I've seen one recently is at Ivanhoe in western NSW.

Jeannette

Military archaeology and architecture

MILI...@JISCMAIL.AC.UK

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[John]

Hello,

There's a part-time "diamond mining" landowner beyond Lithgow, towards
Capertee Valley, whose mine is atop of a big mountain.

He has at least one old tank which he has praised as being good for some
aspects of this activities - that include his making of roads up to the top
of the mountain, his getting diamond wash down from there to a washery,
and/or his farming work.

He has been shown in varous travelogue/documentaries I believe.

If anyone is interested and cannot easily find the details of this, I might
be able to find a lead to him in my notes. However he is likely a well
known user of old ex-army tank or tanks and Steve/David may already have
his details(?).

I know nothing about tanks but can imagine that with a blade stuck on front
they could be powerful bulldozers.

Cheers,

John Byrnes

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

At 04:50 PM 16/03/2010 -0700, Iain wrote:

>The answer is yes, there are quite a few M3 Stuarts and M3 Lee/Grants
>around. The ANZAC Steel website lists 2621 Medium tanks as being
>brought to Australia and 370 Stuarts. There were also a considerable
>number of "Bren Gun" carriers which were locally produced. A careful
>google search will find their locations.

>Regarding Military Archaeology there is a discussion list whose
>details are below:

>Military archaeology and architecture

>A discussion list on military archaeology and military architecture.
>This list relates to the physical remains of military activity from
>all periods of history. The subject also includes civil defence.

>MILI...@JISCMAIL.AC.UK

>--

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[John]

Hello,

Re what happened to guns.

I understand that a lot of guns, aircraft engines and all sorts of things,
were dumped offshore .. and that a lot of this is fairly well documented.

But I know of a story of "Guns in mine" that has been persistent for
decades now .. I've heard it from many independent sources.

Some say there were many guns, in working conditions, put/hidden in a mine
in central NSW .. some say near Parkes or Tomingley.

I've looked into this before .. have asked all the Councils for that shire
and adjacent ones.

And have also asked a number of mining exploration companies currently or
previously active in the area.

Some have at least heard about the story .. but none so far can confirm it.

Has anyone else here heard of the "Guns in mine" story for central NSW too?

Cheers,

John

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Matthew Kelly]

Dear All

There are the remains of a Bren gun carrier at Rouse Hill House, Sydney.

It was apparently used as a general farm tractor/carrier, obviously post war.

Now derelict as you can see in the attached image.

Its serial plate notes it was constructed in Australia.

Cheers

 

Matthew Kelly
Archaeologist

AHMS	ARCHAEOLOGICAL & HERITAGE MANAGEMENT SOLUTIONS PTY LTD

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[Jeannette Hope]

Just out of curiosity, I checked Picture Australia for 'gun display park'
and found only 3 examples.

1. A gun in Gregson Park, Hamilton, NSW, installed in 1905(the Boer War? -
did they use big guns there?
2. One originally in a park in Ballarat. Manufactured in 1869, for HMVS
Cerberus, sent to Ballarat for repair in 1884, moved to HMAS Cerberus in
1986.
3. Undated image from Kings Park, Perth, of a ca 1843 gun that may have been
used in the Crimean War.

I'm forwarding this because I am amazed at (a) how few turned up, and (b)
how old they are - I would have assured most would be WW1 related.

Jeannette

Hello,

Cheers,

John

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[iain.d...@live.com.au]

Of course, lots of guns were given to councils to put in their towns. IN
Uralla, this so outraged the artists in town that they painted it in bright
colours. That was labelled sick by the said councillors. I thought it
would have been a nice bit of adaptive re-use of heritage to have left it.
Certainly would have made Uralla distinctive. (Well, not for long, because
I suspect every town would have wanted to follow suit.) One of the artists
let me copy this photograph. Actually this is the first time I have looked
at it carefully. My memory of it is that it was much more fully covered
with painting. Much of it mauve.

Iain

Iain Davidson
Visiting Professor, Flinders University
Emeritus Professor, University of New England
http://une-au.academia.edu/IainDavidson
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Mailing address
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last upload 3 February 2010

--------------------------------------------------
From: "John" <john...@ozemail.com.au>
Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 12:00 PM
To: <oza...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: RE: {OzArch} Re: Military Archaeology? Army tanks converted to

ag/mine machinery (+ what happened to guns)

>
>

[Jeannette Hope]

Here are a couple more:

1. The Emden Gun in Hyde Park, Sydney, photographed in 1993 - is it still
there?
2. A wonderful Crimean war gun in Centennial Park, Sydney. Photo has no date
but colour - still there? This a spoils of war gun - made in St Petersburg
c 1832, placed in the park 1920s.

How/when did the Crimean guns get to Australia? Why Australia? There are a
lot of Crimean war related placenames here and probably many Crimean vets
emigrated - including one of my gt gt grandfathers (in the Royal Navy at the
time).

Surely someone's done a heritage list of these old guns?

Jeannette

[David Bayliss]

Thank you for the replies.

I find it interesting that there is little general-information regarding
the "war trophies" in towns and shires. There were records-of-issue
kept (and presumably all are available through the NAA, or AWM) however
one aspect that probably would have been overlooked by trophy recipients
is the "ongoing maintenance" of each trophy. This is amazing as the
trophies were a mark of respect to those townsfolk that paid the
ultimate-price and also toward those that supported the war-fighters
through civil-contributions.

Many "Tanks" were (and still are) configured for engineering purposes:
such as Combat-Dozers, Flails (for mine clearing), Bridge-Layers etc..
So it is not surprising to find that some (whether originally
battle-tanks or not) have survived and are being employed within the
mining/rural industries.

Several hobby-groups, RSL Sub-Branches, and unit-associations have
recently taken an interest in resurrecting discarded-war-trophies. One
that I am aware of having undergone a "restoration" (not too bad,
however they liked the natural-wood look of the wheels, so did not
complete the restoration by painting-over the timber) is of a Krupp
7.7cm Feldkanone currently located at Sherwood-Indooroopilly RSL
Sub-Branch (Corinda, Queensland).

The Military Vehicle Collectors Australia (MVCA) have a web-site that
contains a little information of war-trophies in varying condition (see
thread: http://www.mvca.com.au/forum/index.php?showforum=175). There are
quite a few photographs; including images of colonial-era weapons used
during the Crimean-era and the post-Crimean "Russian Threat" of the
1870s-1880s.

Perhaps it is time for a national-audit of surviving/discarded
"trophies".

Regards,

Dave Bayliss
Southeast Queensland

[Janice Wegner]

This wouldn't be the same type of story as the fleets of vehicles and planes
hidden in huge caverns under Castle Hill and Mt Louisa in Townsville or
(more modestly) army surplus equipment hidden under Red Hill in Cairns? If
it is, I'm fascinated - I always thought this was a north Queensland
phenomenon.
All the best
Jan

-----Original Message-----
From: oza...@googlegroups.com [mailto:oza...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of

John
Sent: Wednesday, 17 March 2010 11:00 AM
To: oza...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: {OzArch} Re: Military Archaeology? Army tanks converted to
ag/mine machinery (+ what happened to guns)

[Shaun Canning]

Or the thousands of crates of .303 Lee Enfield Rifles buried near Bandiana, and armoured vehicles at the bottom of Lake Hume.

Urban Military Myths.

Regards,

Dr Shaun Canning  MAACAI, FAAS, MAIPM*
BA, B.App. Sci (Hons), PhD
Principal Heritage Adviser
General Manager - Victoria
Australian Cultural Heritage Management (Vic) Pty Ltd
GPO Box 5112, Melbourne, VIC, 3000
Phone: 1300 724 913 Fax: (03) 5781 0860 Mobile: 0400 204 536
Email: shaun....@achm.com.au
website: www.achm.com.au

*Full Member, Australian Association of consulting Archaeologists Inc.
*Fellow, Australian Anthropological Society
*Member, Australian Institute of Project Management

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Hello,

Cheers,

John

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[Jeannette Hope]

This reminds me of a story I heard in the 1960s of a tank sinking in a swamp
at Wilsons Promontory, Victoria, during WW2. Apparently it was part of a
unit, or maneuvers, aimed at defending the south coast from Japanese
invasion. I remember hearing about or even seeing a Japanese map of the
area. The person to ask is Geoff Hope, who did his Honours thesis there,
coring swamps, including. I think, the one containing the purported tank.

Jeannette

Urban Military Myths.

Regards,

Hello,

Cheers,

John

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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[IainS]

As I recall there are studies of surviving ordinance in NSW and Vic.

Victoria was dotted with guns from HMVS Nelson parcelled out to
various regional towns to encourage martial spirit.

Post WWI numerous guns were used as part of war memorials - mostly
these were captured German guns.

Post WWII the guns seems to be 25 pounders (Mk 1, Mk 3 and the Short
version) and Bofors 40mm anti aircraft guns (such as the one in Iain
D's photo). mostly these were associated with RSL clubs. As for
vehicles I can recall only seeing a Matilda (MK 3), a Centurion and a
White Scout car other than as gate guardians at military bases.

The interesting question is whether any of this surviving ordinance
has been looked at from a technological point of view - yes the guns
and tanks are of inherent interest but in the mid-19th C the colonies
were importing some advanced technology and the question is how much
of it survives fir us to look at. For example the construction of a
gun tube is a rather complex procedure which had to alter in the late
19th c to deal with the introduction of the nitro-based explosives I
wonder how different the construction of the guns from the Cerberus
were from the later disappearing guns (such as can be found at
Northcote).

Iain

[Steve Corsini]

There is a similar tale regarding an old airfield on Coruna Downs Station
near Marble Bar. The airfield is a registered historical site built and used
as a joint base by RAAF Wellington and USAAF Liberator squadrons during WW
2.
It had concrete runways 7000 and 5000 feet long which are still there.
I'm told that it is used as a drag strip by the local hoons.

Story goes that various military equipment including Harley Davidson
motorcycles, 50 calibre machine guns, complete jeeps and 500lb bombs were
buried in several secret underground bunkers around the base.

In the 1970's there was a Matilda Mk3, painted bright yellow, in the
playground at the Floreat Forum shopping centre. That was a fun toy - not
like the super safe plastic swings and rubber matting in playgrounds now!

SJC

Hello,

Cheers,

John

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Sean winter]

A military colleague of mine regularly mentions Coruna Downs and how he wants to go and dig up all this stuff. He regularly talks about the ordnance and equipment buried around this site.

Some other ex-military friends of mine actually did some excavations for buried ordnance in the 1980s. They were in the army at the time and their orders were to try to dig up buried ordnance in and around the military barracks in Midland WA. They dug there for about 6 weeks but never found anything.

I'm friends with a lot of ex and current military people and because I'm an archaeologist they regularly talk to me about buried army gear of all shapes and sizes, suggesting it would be great for me "to go dig it all up". I tell them it's not that simple, but clearly there is a standard belief within the armed forces of buried military treasure being located all over the place.

Thanks

Sean Winter

[Janice Wegner]

Talking of creative uses for WWII equipment, Richmond, North Qld was a
storage depot for poison gas shells (mustard gas and phosgene). When the
Army left they burned all the shells which left the casings behind. For
years afterwards these casings could be found all around the town doing duty
as post boxes and the like. Some military spoilsport found out and rounded
them all up for proper destruction. However I'm fairly sure the Anglican
Church Hall, which was built on a foundation of those casings set into the
ground, still has them.
Regards

[IainS]

Ah.... The RAAF Wellington squadrons were all based in the UK weren't
they?

Despite Geoff Hope's expertise, I doubt there was a tank at Wilson's
Promontory to get buried in a swamp as the units based there were all
commandos or ex Divisional reconnaissance units converting to
commandos. There is however a saw mill site there that is located in
an area classified as untouched "pristine wilderness" which is almost
amazing.

There are always secret underground bunkers which your mates want to
dig up to get brand new Harleys or whatever buried at the end of the
war.

The best story I heard was a syndicate was selling shares in a cache
of WWII USN aircraft pushed off an aircraft carrier at the end of the
war into a lagoon where divers had found them. For a modest and
reasonable price you could buy in and get your own aircraft to restore
in pristine condition having been thrown 50ft off an aircraft carrier
into the sea and resting in a salt environment for 50 odd years.

In my experience, the only buried caches on Defence sites I've seen is
buried cordite on a Base Ammunition Depot and believe me when I say
you don't want to see that.

yours

Iain

[cameron...@gmail.com]

Regarding the construction of the guns, that information is reasonably
easy to find through the historical gun manuals and handbooks. for
example the 10-inch RMLs mounted on the HMVS Cerberus were made using
a steel core tube with larger iron hoops shrunk over the barrel to
provide additional strength to ensure that they did not burst in
firing. The 6-inch BLs mounted on the hydro-pneumatic ('disappearing
guns') carriages around the various fortifications of the colonies
which were of an all steel construction, following the same basic
pattern. so steel core with steel hoops shrunk over it for strength.
The other main method of construction used was wire wrapping where the
steel core was wrapped with steel wire and then had hoops of either
iron or steel shrunk over them again.

interestingly, one of the 9-inch RMLs located at Fort Gellibrand in
Melbourne is still capable of being fired. With its age and unknown
reliability of the casting it cannot be loaded with a full charge and
shell. It is however able to be loaded with partial charges, and no
shell, and fired following proper procedure.

Also regarding buried ordnance stories. one I have heard is that
somewhere in NSW the army buried tons of surplus ww2 weapons under
concrete to preserve them so they could be dug up at a later date. I
do like that one for the complete impracticality of the scenario and
the absolute belief of it by the group of people who told it to me.

[Gary Vines]

I have a small personal experience with recycled WWII military
hardware. A family friend in Barnawartha (halfway between Wangaratta
and Wodonga) (who was himself a WWII MIG Pilot (I think with the Free
Czech forces) had a Churchill tank that he converted to a bulldozer
with an electric winch gable operated blade. I got to drive around on
it piggy back when I was a kid. It still had a lot of its armour in
place, and while the gun turret was missing, it had to be driven from
within the original drives compartment so was pretty cramped. But you
could stand in the gunners position (I think the seating was carried
in the turret so the gunner spun around with the gun). the bulldozer
was used to clear a large block near the Magenta Mine and was rented
out to other farmers, mainly for clearing private land. don't know
what happened to it though.

Gary Vines

[Steve Corsini]

Yes, Ian, my mistake,

In January 1945, 25 RAAF squadron was re-equipped with B-24 Liberator heavy
bombers and flew its first bombing mission two months later out of
Cunderdin � refuelling in northern WA at Corunna Downs and/or Truscott � to
bomb targets in the Dutch East Indies. For the rest of the war, 25 Squadron
was tasked with attacking Japanese shipping and base facilities in the Dutch
East Indies. The Squadron assisted in the allied landings at Brunei Bay in
northern Borneo. In the months following the end of the war, No 25 Squadron
aircraft evacuated POWs to Australia from Morotai and Borneo. The squadron
was disbanded in July 1946.

SJC

[Jeannette Hope]

Iain

It was a rumour we heard, comparable to the other rumours of buried stuff.
Geoff may just have a better memory than I do of the source of the rumour,
or the particular swamp. I do remember walking about on a quaking bog, and
thinking, yes, a tank would sink in this.

Re disposing of war equipment, there's a documentary (1970s?) about Margaret
Mead on Manus Island, which includes US army footage of the Americans
bulldozing huge amounts of stuff into the ocean. Geoff and I spent a few
days on Manus in late 1969, staying in an inland village built and furnished
entirely of 'pipia bilong America' - American rubbish. The visit was
particularly memorable because we joined the entire village in listening to
and translating the broadcast from the second moon walk, while gazing at the
full moon above us.

Jeannette

-----Original Message-----
From: oza...@googlegroups.com [mailto:oza...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of
IainS
Sent: Thursday, 18 March 2010 9:46 AM
To: OzArch
Subject: Re: {OzArch} Re: Military Archaeology? Army tanks converted to
ag/mine machinery (+ what happened to guns)

yours

Iain

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[Ashley Matic]

While quite often these rumors of buried equipment turn out to be just
that, sometimes they turn out to be the real deal. Two examples that
spring to mind; the first being Archerfield quarry in QLD, where a
whole bunch of surplus air force components (Aircraft spares, weapons,
etc) were turfed into a disused quarry that filled with water. This
was emptied in the 1990s by a local man for no real purpose, from what
I understand the bits not taken by the military are floating about in
various museums around the place. The other is the dumping of large
numbers of Aircraft from RN aircraft carriers off the coast of QLD, I
think it's somewhere up by Brisbane. At least a few have been
positively identifed in the waters up there, a company wanted to
salvage some of them but all I've seen are a few bits of Corsairs that
appear to have been badly damaged in the salvage process.

I think there is a webpage out there that has pics from each of these
if anyone is interested, can't remember the address off the top of my
head.

[Shaun Canning]

Pretty common practice in the years immediately after WW2 - lots of farms had tank hulls or Bren gun carriers converted into dozers.

It wasn't Victor Mucia who was the family friend was it?

Regards,

Dr Shaun Canning  MAACAI, FAAS, MAIPM*
BA, B.App. Sci (Hons), PhD
Principal Heritage Adviser
General Manager - Victoria
Australian Cultural Heritage Management (Vic) Pty Ltd
GPO Box 5112, Melbourne, VIC, 3000
Phone: 1300 724 913 Fax: (03) 5781 0860 Mobile: 0400 204 536
Email: shaun....@achm.com.au
website: www.achm.com.au

*Full Member, Australian Association of consulting Archaeologists Inc.
*Fellow, Australian Anthropological Society
*Member, Australian Institute of Project Management

ACHM has offices in Adelaide, Melbourne and Perth, and provides services throughout Australia.

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-----Original Message-----
From: oza...@googlegroups.com [mailto:oza...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Gary Vines
Sent: Thursday, 18 March 2010 11:18 AM
To: OzArch

Gary Vines

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[David Bayliss]

From Alex McDougall on the MVCA Forum:

 

Hi David,

The tanks referred to were both M3 Medium Grants. Both were sans upper armour. The dozer had the centre 1/3rd of the lower hull cut out and the front and rear sections joined. The 'crusher' was a dryblower, the dozer pushing aluvial dirt into the mouth of an elevator on the front of the dryblower. I've been told that Lang Hancock had their conversion commissioned. They were last positioned on the Western side of the range and I'm told the dew point had a negative effect on dryblowing. Would have been extremely dusty to work around at various times! Both appear to have had AEC 6 cylinder diesels probably from Valentines or imported Valentine spares stocks. The dryblower still had its motor when I saw it in '93 but I can't remember about the dozer. I found out that the remains of both tanks were purchased and recovered into preservation in the last few years but I don't know those involved.

They, and the ex Ragged Hills lead mine Valentine, were fairly unique in their remote locations. I doubt that many other tanks were distributed so.

Regards

Alex

 

-----Original Message-----
From: oza...@googlegroups.com [mailto:oza...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Corsini
Sent: Wednesday, 17 March 2010 08:57
Subject: {OzArch} Military Archaeology? Army tanks converted to ag/mine machinery

…

I'm not, but I once came across two old tanks at an abandoned 1950's minesite near Pilgangora (in the middle of the Pilbara district) ..." both the vehicles had been completely stripped of their turrets and superstructures, etc. but retained tracks engines drive train and steering etc From the wheel configuration, one was an M3 Stuart/Honey which had been converted to a bulldozer. The other was an M3 Lee/Grant which had been converted into an ore crusher. Both of these types of tanks were US manufactured but they were used by Australia during WW2, so I presume they were Australian army surplus

Are there more of these sorts of vehicles in less remote parts of the country?cheers Steve Corsini

 

 

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[Brad Duncan]

There are a number of small caches of ammunition which were dumped into the water off Swan Island in Victoria.  I have seen some really interesting cases oif bullets wrapped in wax paper underwater in this area, which could be regularly seen when diving this area (until some smart cookie raised one of them and took them to Fort Queenscliffe, where the bomb squad was called in to dispose of them - apparently they were highly unstable after so long underwater according to the army sources).   I am also following up on a reported ammunition dump in one of the channels near Mud Islands. 

Some more fanciful caches.  There were also stories in WA when I was living there at one time of a secret war time strategy whereby trucks/ Harleys and other equipment was packed in grease in crates and dumped offshore in the Kimberley area, so that if the Japanese ever invaded, the army could come in behind them once they had passed and cut them off form the rear.   Townsville was also supposed to have had a highly secret airbase under the top of Castle Hill and another hill nearby, whereby planes land on the peak and were concealed in a hidden subterranean hanger.  Gee they were clever in those days weren't they!!

 

Brad Duncan

 

On Thu 18/03/10 10:12 , "cameron...@gmail.com" cameron...@gmail.com sent:

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[Brad Duncan]

Talking about recycling  of military hardware, I have come across many instances of this around Queenscliff, Victoria.  Swan Island once boasted a sea mine assembly plant, and when the war finished,  the charges were removed from the the mines (and used fro channel deepening) and the mine cases were used as rubbish bins all around the region.  One was found recently at Ocean Grove (and the bomb squad called in) and I have documented another still being used as an incinerator near Lake Connewarre!  The local fihsermen extensively exploited old military sites.  They accessed former rifle ranges to get bullet heads to make sinkers, used the rifling bands from artillery shells to amke rubbing strakes for their boats, and pulled out Jarrah supporting beams from Fort Queenscliff Tunnel and South Channel Fort to make keels for their boats (explaining why those structures have started to collapse!.

 

Brad

On Thu 18/03/10 11:17 , Gary Vines gvi...@biosisresearch.com.au sent:

I have a small personal experience with recycled WWII military
hardware. A family friend in Barnawartha (halfway between Wangaratta
and Wodonga) (who was himself a WWII MIG Pilot (I think with the Free
Czech forces) had a Churchill tank that he converted to a bulldozer
with an electric winch gable operated blade. I got to drive around on
it piggy back when I was a kid. It still had a lot of its armour in
place, and while the gun turret was missing, it had to be driven from
within the original drives compartment so was pretty cramped. But you
could stand in the gunners position (I think the seating was carried
in the turret so the gunner spun around with the gun). the bulldozer
was used to clear a large block near the Magenta Mine and was rented
out to other farmers, mainly for clearing private land. don't know
what happened to it though.

Gary Vines

[Convict Trail]

I have been following this thread with interest, and it has just occurred to me that perhaps some of the urban myths like to one about stuff to be collected behind a Japanese invasion were deliberately started to keep up moral on the home front, with Japan on the doorstep. There were I understand army small units scattered about to help with this, there was  a small transport unit in Waitara, and talking to persons who were in Sydney during the war they have said they never knew ships were sunk off the east coast of Australia. This was kept silent. Lots of stories about bridges and roads leading up from the Hawkesbury river being loaded with explosives charges to be set off incase of a Japanese invasion in the Hawkesbury. All the small boats on the lower Hawkesbury were collected and hidden up Berowra waters, then damaged in a storm.

Regards

Elizabeth Roberts

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