Request for point of clarification

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Pip Padden

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Oct 6, 2017, 12:12:31 PM10/6/17
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May I get a point of clarification on ordained priests

Packet language reads (emphasis added) -A former Pack Priest is allowed to continue to practice Ritae within the Sect. This position is known as “Ordained Priest.” This Status trait must be awarded by a Bishop or higher within the Clergy. o An Ordained Priest is allowed to keep his Enlightened Status Trait as a Reputational Trait, as well as continue to practice the Ritae (though he/she is not to teach the Ritae to others).

So first is it a postion that gives no status and allows practice of Ritae, or is it a status trait.

Second, must an “ordained priest” keep their  “enlightened” status trait as a reputational status trait, thus using one of there five, to be viewed as holding the non status granting position in the sabbat?  If so can we just call the reputational status trait (and pack priest positional trait) “ordained” instead to not add confusion with path level related traits?  

Pip
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Pip Padden

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Oct 6, 2017, 1:06:46 PM10/6/17
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And I just saw that there is the ordained status trait too so I guess the question should also include must they have that and or enlighted as one of their five reputational 

Retired Sabbat Coord

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Oct 6, 2017, 1:24:27 PM10/6/17
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If you are a pack priest you hold a sect position and thus the status trait you get is positional for that.

If you stop being a pack priest and still want to practice Ritae you may shift the enlightened status trait from positional to reputational as you no longer hold the position of pack priest.

Make sense?

Adam

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Pip Padden

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Oct 6, 2017, 1:32:07 PM10/6/17
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No.   that does not address the ordained trait later in the packet.  Or if it was your intent that to continue practicing Ritae the former pack priest must use one of their five reputational status?  Or if a character could be an ordained priest without also having some reputational trait denoting it.  

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Retired Sabbat Coord

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Oct 6, 2017, 2:08:49 PM10/6/17
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My intent was as I said above

Adam

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Lex Lopez

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Oct 6, 2017, 2:19:36 PM10/6/17
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To clarify, you must use one of your reputation slots to continue practicing Ritae.

Lex

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Chris Haffly

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Oct 6, 2017, 2:21:49 PM10/6/17
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Be Free Sabbat! Do what you want!
Chris Haffly

Pip Padden

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Oct 6, 2017, 2:26:51 PM10/6/17
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Your answer is still unclear because you’re not addressing the ordained trait in the packet.

To continue practicing Ritae do they need to use one of their 5 reputational traits, yes or no?      I read your reply as Yes 

So One simple follow up for clarity.  

If yes, which reputational trait do they use, “enlightened”,  “ordained”, or either one?




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Pip Padden

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Oct 6, 2017, 2:27:58 PM10/6/17
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Thanks lex

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Lex Lopez

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Oct 6, 2017, 2:32:40 PM10/6/17
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No problem. 

Lex

Thanks lex

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Retired Sabbat Coord

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Oct 6, 2017, 2:32:57 PM10/6/17
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Yes to able to practice Ritae means you are clergy.

Clergy is pack priest, bishop, archbishop, cardinal etc

If you aren't one of those you are not supposed to be practicing Ritae per books and packet.

IF you were at one time one of those positions and still want to practice Ritae you can move your enlightened status to rep status (yes taking up one of your max 5) you hence known in character as an "ordained priest but it's NOT an actual sect position you get status for. As long as you have that status you can practice Ritae.

Ordained just means ordained as a rep status per it's wright up in the packet.  Remember the packet also allows you to just make up status traits.

Adam

Thanks lex

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Pip Padden

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Oct 6, 2017, 2:47:35 PM10/6/17
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So are you saying none priests can receive the “ordained” trait?  Because to be ordained is to be made a priest?  


Thanks lex

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Kat Flottemesch

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Oct 6, 2017, 2:55:20 PM10/6/17
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No - to be considered an Ordained Priest you must have been a Pack Priest, Bishop, Archbishop etc, who, for whatever reason, stepped down from the Clergy position, but opted to move the Enlightened Positional Status to be a Reputational one, thus allowing you to still perform Ritae.

You must have been part of the Clergy in order to perform ritae.

Thanks lex

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Pip Padden

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Oct 6, 2017, 3:01:38 PM10/6/17
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That is not what Adam just said.  He said ordained was independant and to follow the write up. 

This is what the “ordained” trait says in the packet.

“Having been trained in Ritae to the satisfaction of the Clergy, you have been formally ordained and are given license to practice the sect’s sacred Ritae. Requirement:  Granted IC by a member of the clergy. Ordination is typically not granted to those who have fewer than 3 levels of the Rituals ability.“

Nothing about have had to have been a pack priest.

Thanks lex

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Kat Flottemesch

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Oct 6, 2017, 3:04:25 PM10/6/17
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I was going based on what was said in the discussion, I haven't looked at the packet. If that's what the packet says, then I assume that's correct.

Thanks lex

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Pip Padden

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Oct 6, 2017, 3:12:17 PM10/6/17
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This is why I think their is confusion and wanted clarification.

It seems adam is saying there are non clergy/priests who can practice Ritae and are ordained and have the “ordained” reputational status trait. And there are former pack priests who are called “ordained priests” and have the “enlightened” reputational status trait.

Thanks lex

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Erika

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Oct 6, 2017, 3:58:05 PM10/6/17
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How I understand this from review, excuse the repitition: 

1 . One is a Status trait granted, thus naming said clergy as "Ordained Priest" - meaning they Hold Status granted from a Clergy Position, and practice/teach Ritae etc. 

2. The other is a "Former Ordained Priest" that no longer holds the Status trait because they no longer hold a Clergy position, but would like to keep practicing the Ritae (But no longer allowed to teach Ritae).

In my opinion, we should not place these two under the same title of "Ordained Priest" because it would be incorrect - one holds status w/ position and ability to teach and practice the Ritae, while the other doesn't, and is only allowed to practice Ritae.

Erika
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Thanks lex

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Pip Padden
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Pip Padden
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Pip Padden
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Erika

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Oct 6, 2017, 4:02:58 PM10/6/17
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Clarification: Ordained or Ordained Priests feel like it would cause more confusion since Ordained follows Priests as defacto to many who read ordained. But again, that's just my opinion.

Erika
Team Moderates

Retired Sabbat Coord

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Oct 6, 2017, 4:09:29 PM10/6/17
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1. Ordained the status trait is just a status trait. It doesn't mean u can practice Ritae. See it's write up in the packet.

2.practicing Ritae; you are either clergy or ex clergy. If u are clergy u get positional status for that. If you are ex clergy u keep your old positional status and now reputational and u can keep practicing Ritae.

Adam

Pip Padden

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Oct 6, 2017, 4:38:00 PM10/6/17
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Here is the "Ordained" write up in the packet with emphasis added.  Which along with "ordained priest" being called a position in the pack priest write up part of the source of the confusion.

Ordained
Having been trained in Ritae to the satisfaction of the Clergy, you have been formally ordained and are given license to practice the sect’s sacred Ritae.
Requirement: Granted IC by a member of the clergy. Ordination is typically not granted to those who have fewer than 3 levels of the Rituals ability.
Awarded by: Bishop or Higher
Removal: Subject to removal by an Archbishop when an individual is placed on the Black List.
Source: OWbN





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Pip Padden
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Erika

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Oct 6, 2017, 4:41:24 PM10/6/17
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Adam - thank you!

Pip- I'll had to read the packets more carefully again, I see how that creates confusion. 

Erika
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