RavnosPacket2011version1.6.pdf (owbn-ravnos-ooc@googlegroups.com)
Ravnos Coordinator (Google Docs)
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Romaine
Buddhism). These are religions. Diverse religions at that. With
various sects and subsects and no central code of honor. Basically,
there is no such thing as a Code of Honor: Hinduism, how could you put
it as a requirement for learning Sadhana?
Even if you could find a few things that could make up something of a
coherent code, like say The Eightfold Path, it flies in the face of
this particular paragraph:
Hinduism and the Path of Mayaparisata - The Path of Mayaparisata has
adopted many Hindu principles over the years,
but is not a reflection of Hindu culture or concepts. Many tenets and
teachings may be attractive to a vampire who was a
Hindu in life, but many lessons are also monstrous and wicked,
intended to show the student the ultimate lie. Hindus
might say that their Dharma is one of peace and compassion, while
followers of Mayaparisata may urge it’s followers to
indulge in their inhumanity and to slay others of their kind depending
on their svadharma.
Simply put the tenents of the Path of Mayaparisata are directly
contradiction of Hinduism. How could one maintain a Code of Honor:
Hinduism and still maintain a path of mayaparisata? And if that wasn't
difficult enough, you also have to consider the practice of Sadhana
directly and purposely contradict Hindu practices. Even if you could
squeeze out a few things that Hinduism and the Path of Maya do not
conflict on, then you must also conflict with Sadhana's practices. If
your code of honor is simply to practice the rituals of the Veda
properly (not even sure if honor comes into play), then you can never
practice Sadhana whose rituals and methods are polar opposite of the
Vedic methods.
I think some revising of this is necessary to more accurately describe
what kind of Code of Honor you are looking for to require.
On Dec 4, 2:16 am, "Ravnos Coordinator (Google Docs)"
<ravnoscoord2...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I've shared an item with you:
>
> RavnosPacket2011version1.6.pdfhttps://docs.google.com/open?id=0B2cjeSh-KK7zODNlZDBiZGItOGJhYS00NDZj...
>
> It's not an attachment -- it's stored online at Google Docs. To open this
> document, just click the link above.
Ravnos Coordinator
Ravnos Coordinator
Bushido is a code of honor.Chivalry is a code of honor.Japanese Shintoism is not a code of honor.Christianity is not a code of honor.First, a religion is more than a code of behavior or morality. It is a system of belief.Example... A belief in a monotheistic deity is not part of a code of behavior/morality/honor. It is simply a belief.Second, strictly speaking, codes of honor are different than moral codes, (though there is overlap).Two examples...A Chivalrous view that a man should remain standing until the ladies sit is not an moral code, it is a honor code.Not lying to another could be both a moral code and a honor code.Third, religions are diverse. Could you derive a single code of behavior for Christianity? No. Every major ethical topic has different sects of Christianity that differs in their viewpoint.When I say there's no such thing as Code of Honor: Hinduism, I mean pretty much all three things, with an emphasis on my last point. It is such a diverse religion. It'd be easier to define Code of Honor: American.
From: Ravnos Coordinator <ravnosc...@gmail.com>
To: owbn-ra...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sunday, December 4, 2011 9:02 PM
Subject: Re: RavnosPacket2011version1.6.pdf (owbn-ra...@googlegroups.com)
Dayvisson Alves
In spite of its name, the merit is nothing more than a game mechanic that provide a second set of strong personal beliefs (besides the character's Morality). It can be something as simples as "I am forbidden to lie" or it can mimic the formal (cultural) traits of some major religious group. As pointed up, Hinduism spiritual teachings are contrary to Mayaparisatya, but several other "mundane" practices of the religion like the concept of purity, asceticism, etc. are fair game IMHO.
Dayvisson
--
Dayvisson Alves
Ravnos Subcoord - Brazil
Justin M.
Glenn Terwilliger
I as a sub coord to the brujah understand your stance and the issue you have here. And while I am not a fan of packets and more info like that..I could only suggest a code of honor: sadanna or something along those lines to codify the drawbacks
-Glenn
Justin M.
Aaron Coleman
I swear-by my life and my love of it-that I will not live for the sake of any man, nor ask any man to live for mine.
Romaine
share definitions of concepts. Path of Maya shares those concepts as
well.
But Sadhana is inhuman. Path of Maya is inhuman. Both in more ways
than one contradict popular Hinduism.
I won't focus to much on Path of Maya, since I think that one's
straightforward as why its inhuman - its a path of enlightenment. So
I'll focus on Sadhana.
Sadhana is Indian Blood magic. Its based in part off Hindu
philosophical concepts. But it is twisted and distorted to opposite.
For example, Hindu Brahmins avoid things to remain pure. Saddhus on
the other hand specifically go out and defile themselves to gain
tapas, their version of spiritual energy. They feed off unclean
things. They surround themselves with dead things. Yes, some practices
are similar with Brahmins, like their meditation and asceticism. But
even their purpose for these practices is inhuman. The purpose isn't
devotion to the Gods or even liberation, the purpose is power - to
usurp the power of the gods themselves.
There is nothing honorable about Sadhana. At best its a blood sorcery
where honor is irrelevant. But its probably more likely to be a blood
magic where honor is actually discouraged. You are a Saddhu because
you actively seek to take the gods' power for your own. There is one
thing I found through the reading that could possibly be a rule of
honor - the rule not to accept gifts in exchange for blood magic.
Sadhana's counterpart, by the way, isn't modern Hinduism. Modern
Hinduism is almost universally against animal sacrifice and violence
and plenty other things. The rituals in the early Vedas, however, have
lots of animal sacrifice. The early Vedas were like a how-to guide of
performing religious rites, almost all involving sacrifice. The later
Vedas and subsequent religious works turned their attention towards
achieving mochsa, liberation.
Sadhana is much closer to the Mimamsu philosophy which was popular in
the medieval era and was focused on strict ritualism according to the
early Vedas. The general mindset is you perform the rituals in the
Vedas, you compel the universe to give you the result. Mimamsu was
largely popular in the medieval era, but isn't popular in the modern
era. Most modern Hinduism come out of the Vedanta school, which was
focused on obtaining mochsa, liberation, through devotion to a deity
(not unlike Western religions). The three most popular are Shiva,
Vishnu (of which I include the Krishna subsect), and Devi. There are
also the Yoga and Tantra schools which focus on asceticism, personal
reflection, and mysticism for achieving liberation - not vastly
different from Buddhism - and are atheistic or nontheistic (neither
affirming nor disaffirming).
Sadhana blatantly goes against Vedanta, takes some elements of the
Yoga/Tantra schools, but by and large is Mimamsu in mindset.
My point really is is that you can't find a code that "coincides" with
Hinduism, except "do the rituals right". That's basically it. That -
is- the only dharma, duty, you can find that would coincide with
Sadhana. It's sort of like asking a Sabbat priest to take Code of
Honor: Christianity because the rites he performs are based upon
Christian concepts (and actually Native American ones too but I won't
get into that). The rites are versions twisted for fundamentally
blasphemous purpose. While Sabbat make a mockery of them, Saddhu's use
them for the exact opposite purposes of what they were intended for -
power not liberation.
Code of Honor: Sadhana isn't as contradictory of a requirement. I
guess it'd mean that you'd have to perform your rituals properly,
never deviating and never questioning them, and always performing them
when its proper. Maybe also your duty is to challenge the authority of
the gods. In all honesty though, not sure why this would even be
needed since Path of Maya examines all this and more. But, at least it
makes sense.
On Dec 6, 3:34 pm, Aaron Coleman <coleman.aar...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'll weigh in here.
>
> I agree that Hinduism is not a code of honor, but what about a code that
> coincides with Hinduism, like a code of honor that follows the concept of
> Dharma, which is kind of like correct behavior, duty, etc. That would work
> as a code of honor. It would still need to be regulated somewhat from
> there, so what about using some of the more common themes of Hinduism: "*
> Dharma* <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dharma> (ethics/duties),
> *Samsāra<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samsara>
> * (The continuing cycle of birth, life, death and rebirth),
> *Karma<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karma>
> * (action and subsequent reaction), *Moksha<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moksha>
> * (liberation from *samsara*), and the various
> Yogas<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoga>(paths or practices)".
>
> I took that from wikipedia, I know, but it made sense to me. You might have
> the players define each of these parts to you for approval.
>
> Also, I don't quite get that one has to perform animal sacrifice and such
> for Ravnos blood magic. If one adheres to Hinduism, wouldn't a respect for
> life be involved? Taking it to perform a selfish action doesn't seem to
> make sense to me.
>
> Aaron Coleman
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 2:19 PM, Justin M. <mcjustin...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > As much as I dislike that for cutting away the fluff, it's probably the
> > best option given that you can make a list of what is needed and let the
> > rest be up to the individual player. It's probably the only way to ensure
> > uniformity.
>
> > -justin
>
> > On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 6:35 PM, Glenn Terwilliger <
> > glennterwilli...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> I as a sub coord to the brujah understand your stance and the issue you
> >> have here. And while I am not a fan of packets and more info like that..I
> >> could only suggest a code of honor: sadanna or something along those lines
> >> to codify the drawbacks
>
> >> -Glenn
> >> On Dec 5, 2011 9:40 PM, "Ravnos Coordinator" <ravnoscoord2...@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
>
> >>> I agree, but its more of a means to regulate it. I started enforcing it
> >>> because players have been coming up to me asking if they can be [ insert
> >>> obscure form of Hinduism that allows them to have no detriments ] I had 3
> >>> requests for sadhanna involving a form of Hinduism that are
> >>> essentially atheists. So, how would you suggest it be handled?
> >>> -Vincent
>
> >>> On Sun, Dec 4, 2011 at 9:34 PM, Anthony Graff <rpmess...@yahoo.com>wrote:
>
> >>>> Bushido is a code of honor.
> >>>> Chivalry is a code of honor.
> >>>> Japanese Shintoism is not a code of honor.
> >>>> Christianity is not a code of honor.
>
> >>>> First, a religion is more than a code of behavior or morality. It is a
> >>>> system of belief.
>
> >>>> Example... A belief in a monotheistic deity is not part of a code of
> >>>> behavior/morality/honor. It is simply a belief.
>
> >>>> Second, strictly speaking, codes of honor are different than moral
> >>>> codes, (though there is overlap).
>
> >>>> Two examples...
> >>>> A Chivalrous view that a man should remain standing until the ladies
> >>>> sit is not an moral code, it is a honor code.
> >>>> Not lying to another could be both a moral code and a honor code.
>
> >>>> Third, religions are diverse. Could you derive a single code of
> >>>> behavior for Christianity? No. Every major ethical topic has different
> >>>> sects of Christianity that differs in their viewpoint.
>
> >>>> When I say there's no such thing as Code of Honor: Hinduism, I mean
> >>>> pretty much all three things, with an emphasis on my last point. It is such
> >>>> a diverse religion. It'd be easier to define Code of Honor: American.
>
> >>>> ------------------------------
> >>>> *From:* Ravnos Coordinator <ravnoscoord2...@gmail.com>
> >>>> *To:* owbn-ra...@googlegroups.com
> >>>> *Sent:* Sunday, December 4, 2011 9:02 PM
> >>>> *Subject:* Re: RavnosPacket2011version1.6.pdf (