Resources - some current issues and thoughts about transfer to p2p infrastructure
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Tiberius Brastaviceanu
Oct 3, 2017, 5:48:51 PM10/3/17
to ovnsinfra...@googlegroups.com, Bob Haugen
Hi all,
I realized that we cannot deal with the case when a Resource of the type usable (equipment) is taken out of the system. If we delete the Resource it causes problems with all the processes in which it has been used in the past.
I am starting to think about how Resources will be dealt with in a p2p infrastructure. I am documenting stuff here.
Bob Haugen
Oct 3, 2017, 6:01:58 PM10/3/17
to Tiberius Brastaviceanu, ovnsinfra...@googlegroups.com
Just set the quantity to zero.
Lynn Foster
Oct 3, 2017, 6:11:31 PM10/3/17
to Tiberius Brastaviceanu, ovnsinfra...@googlegroups.com, Bob Haugen
Yeah, don't delete the resource from NRP, it will mess up a lot of things. You could sell it or dispose of it in an event, and get the quantity to 0, then it won't show up in inventory or anywhere that wants real resources.
Anyhow, this is an immediate answer for that software, not so much an OVNi answer for the future.
On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 4:48 PM, Tiberius Brastaviceanu <tiberius.br...@gmail.com> wrote:
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Bob Haugen
Oct 3, 2017, 6:17:40 PM10/3/17
to Lynn Foster, Tiberius Brastaviceanu, ovnsinfra...@googlegroups.com
P.S. I think using the application code, you can't delete a resource
that has participated in any actual economic events.
The same is true of most other objects in the system. Go to
https://github.com/valnet/valuenetwork/blob/master/valuenetwork/valueaccounting/models.py
and find is_deletable
You can delete them using django admin, which does not obey that rule.
But I'll look at your doc when I get time. This is an interesting
topic for valueflows.
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that has participated in any actual economic events.
The same is true of most other objects in the system. Go to
https://github.com/valnet/valuenetwork/blob/master/valuenetwork/valueaccounting/models.py
and find is_deletable
You can delete them using django admin, which does not obey that rule.
But I'll look at your doc when I get time. This is an interesting
topic for valueflows.
>> To post to this group, send email to OVNsInfra...@googlegroups.com.
Tiberius Brastaviceanu
Oct 3, 2017, 6:46:34 PM10/3/17
to Bob Haugen, Lynn Foster, ovnsinfra...@googlegroups.com
Yes... that's what I thought.
Reducing quantity to 0, as Lynn suggests is a good option. But the NRP is mission some Exchange types, I think.
From the doc linked earlier,
Transactions are put into the Ledger of Economic Activity.
Create/Destroy Resource: purchase, make, borrow/return, give, sell, discard, ...
Access / Use: Can be done from a Process, within a Context (project). Physical access can be mediated via RFID. Requires Credentials (mediated by smart contracts). May require some exchange (payment for maintenance, rent, equity).
Change location: If the resource is transported for any reason, its location must be updated. Mey require Credentials for changing location. May require exchange (if the resource is rented to someone)
Perform maintenance: May require credentials, May require exchanges (buy parts + pay labor from digital wallet / maintenance budget), May require location change, ...
Here's an interesting case:
Someone brings are resource to the lab for a given time, to be shared with others. After some time he/she takes it back. This type of transaction is frequent.
We can also discard a resource, once it is broken. Or we can sell an old resource to replace it with a new one.
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Lynn Foster
Oct 3, 2017, 6:55:25 PM10/3/17
to Tiberius Brastaviceanu, Bob Haugen, ovnsinfra...@googlegroups.com
>But the NRP is mission some Exchange types, I think.
You can create your own exchange types for such things, as it fits your needs.... http://nrp.sensorica.co/accounting/exchange-types/, check the tutorial also.
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Bob Haugen
Oct 3, 2017, 6:58:17 PM10/3/17
to Tiberius Brastaviceanu, Lynn Foster, ovnsinfra...@googlegroups.com
Don't think of a resource as a physical object.Think of it as an
accounting record. An observation of reality at a particular time.
I'll get deeper into this in the next couple of days. It is settled
art, especially coming from tracking mad cows. Think about it.
>> >> email to OVNsInfrastruct...@googlegroups.com.
accounting record. An observation of reality at a particular time.
I'll get deeper into this in the next couple of days. It is settled
art, especially coming from tracking mad cows. Think about it.
>> >> To post to this group, send email to
>> >> OVNsInfra...@googlegroups.com.
Tiberius Brastaviceanu
Oct 3, 2017, 9:28:46 PM10/3/17
to Bob Haugen, Lynn Foster, ovnsinfra...@googlegroups.com
Thanks for the hint Bob.
Lynn, I wI'll play with exchange types.
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Bob Haugen
Oct 5, 2017, 7:24:14 AM10/5/17
to Tiberius Brastaviceanu, Lynn Foster, ovnsinfra...@googlegroups.com
The angles on resources I will list here might not matter to
sensorica, but do matter to valueflows, where we are trying to support
economic networks of many kinds.
Your document focuses on individually-identifiable resources like
pieces of equipment. In valueflows, we have looked at three different
resource identifiability types:
1. Individually identifiable or serialized, having something like a
serial number, like a car or a 3d printer. In this case, in a
radically decentralized system, or even a blockchain system, you could
track the individual resource wherever it is.
2. Stock resources which are not individually identified, like nuts
and bolts or grains or liquids. For these, all you can identify is a
quantity of the resource in a particular location, which might be like
a bin.
3. Lot or batch identified resources, where it's important to track
the origin and history of the resource: for example, food and drugs,
like the mad cow problem. Cattle are individually identified by tags,
but when a steer is cut up into pieces and possibly mixed with meat
from other animals in ground beef or even other species in sausage,
lot ids are used so that for example health problems can be tracked to
either the individual animal or small set of possible animals that
could have been the source of the problem.
Treatments of these types of resources will need to be rethought for
different architectures of value network infrastructure.
In a monolithic architecture like the current sensorica NRP where each
resource of any of those types has its own record, if a resource moves
out of the scope of the database, like, you sell a matrioshka, you
still need a record in the system that it once existed, even if the
quantity is now zero.
In a blockchain system, where the database is essentially the whole
blockchain, if the matrioshka is moved to some other agent that
participates in the same chain, that historical record might be
designed differently. (I have not done the work, but it is being done
by for example Sweetbridge. And I have no details of their design.)
In a radically decentralized system, like secure scuttlebutt, where
each agent has its own local database, you would probably need a
record of resources that once existed, like the current NRP. But what
you really need is records of the events that occurred, you may not
need records of the actual resources once they are out of your
control. Bill McCarthy, for example, never instantiates records of
actual resources. He just computes them from event history. (But then
again, Bill is not developing operational systems...)
In all of those cases, though, I would treat the current NRP design
as a proof of concept, which is what Lynn and I meant it as, rather
than a design for all times and circumstances. As we get deeper into
valueflows, we identify resources on events more loosely. Some of that
design is getting solidified in the new UI being developed in
https://github.com/django-rea/rea-app
sensorica, but do matter to valueflows, where we are trying to support
economic networks of many kinds.
Your document focuses on individually-identifiable resources like
pieces of equipment. In valueflows, we have looked at three different
resource identifiability types:
1. Individually identifiable or serialized, having something like a
serial number, like a car or a 3d printer. In this case, in a
radically decentralized system, or even a blockchain system, you could
track the individual resource wherever it is.
2. Stock resources which are not individually identified, like nuts
and bolts or grains or liquids. For these, all you can identify is a
quantity of the resource in a particular location, which might be like
a bin.
3. Lot or batch identified resources, where it's important to track
the origin and history of the resource: for example, food and drugs,
like the mad cow problem. Cattle are individually identified by tags,
but when a steer is cut up into pieces and possibly mixed with meat
from other animals in ground beef or even other species in sausage,
lot ids are used so that for example health problems can be tracked to
either the individual animal or small set of possible animals that
could have been the source of the problem.
Treatments of these types of resources will need to be rethought for
different architectures of value network infrastructure.
In a monolithic architecture like the current sensorica NRP where each
resource of any of those types has its own record, if a resource moves
out of the scope of the database, like, you sell a matrioshka, you
still need a record in the system that it once existed, even if the
quantity is now zero.
In a blockchain system, where the database is essentially the whole
blockchain, if the matrioshka is moved to some other agent that
participates in the same chain, that historical record might be
designed differently. (I have not done the work, but it is being done
by for example Sweetbridge. And I have no details of their design.)
In a radically decentralized system, like secure scuttlebutt, where
each agent has its own local database, you would probably need a
record of resources that once existed, like the current NRP. But what
you really need is records of the events that occurred, you may not
need records of the actual resources once they are out of your
control. Bill McCarthy, for example, never instantiates records of
actual resources. He just computes them from event history. (But then
again, Bill is not developing operational systems...)
In all of those cases, though, I would treat the current NRP design
as a proof of concept, which is what Lynn and I meant it as, rather
than a design for all times and circumstances. As we get deeper into
valueflows, we identify resources on events more loosely. Some of that
design is getting solidified in the new UI being developed in
https://github.com/django-rea/rea-app
Jim Anastassiou
Oct 5, 2017, 9:43:44 AM10/5/17
to Bob Haugen, Lynn Foster, Tiberius Brastaviceanu, OVNsInfra...@googlegroups.com
Hey everyone. Bob funny you mentioned Sweetbridge, I met with Glenn Jones a few weeks ago in San Francisco and had a few chats with Scott Nelson as well. What they are trying to do has some major challenges, would love to discuss them with you. We can take this off the board unless its of interest to anyone else.
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Bob Haugen
Oct 5, 2017, 9:49:45 AM10/5/17
to Jim Anastassiou, Lynn Foster, Tiberius Brastaviceanu, OVNsInfra...@googlegroups.com
Major challenges indeed! I'm up for discussion, don't care what venue.
Could be opt-in, I suppose.
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Could be opt-in, I suppose.
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>> >> t!b!
>> >>
>> >> co-founder of SENSORICA: an open value network
>> >> co-founder of CAKE: consulting for the new economy
>> >> founder of Multitude Project: informing the new multitude
>> >>
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>> >> www.facebook.com/tiberius.brastaviceanu
>> >> @TiberiusB
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>> >> t!b!
>> >>
>> >> co-founder of SENSORICA: an open value network
>> >> co-founder of CAKE: consulting for the new economy
>> >> founder of Multitude Project: informing the new multitude
>> >>
>> >> Profile
>> >> www.facebook.com/tiberius.brastaviceanu
>> >> @TiberiusB
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