Gas Bottles In a Trailer - Any Dangers?
btu...@mmm.com
Hi All,
What is the general consensus of having your gas bottles inside of a
trailer or should they only be carried on the outside ?
Is there any danger?
Obviously they will be kept closed when traveling and only opened when
needed.
Thankyou,
.............................................................
Regards
Bruce Turner
Hennie Rautenbach
> What is the general consensus of having your gas bottles inside of a
> trailer or should they only be carried on the outside ?
> Is there any danger?
If it leaks ? Lots of danger. Best carried outside.
Fanie du Plessis
Interesting point this, someone from the UK once noticed the gas bottles on
the outside of my trailer and said its illegal in the UK to carry gas
bottles anywhere on the outside of a vehicle, apparently because of
potential fire hazard when in an accident. Dont know if its true though.
Currently I have one outside on trailer and the second one inside the nose
cone.
If it does leak even a tiny amount you smell it immideatly the moment you
open the lid.
I would say use any suitable space outside first (cheap space), only go
inside (expensive space) when you run out of options on the outside.
Regards
Fanie
Donald Pittendrigh
Carrying gas bottles on the outside of your vehicle must be largely a
landrover thing (just think when you last saw one hanging off any other kind
of vehicle), it comes from a mental accustomisation that all things will
naturally fail or leak.
Gas bottles only leak if they are not properly closed or faulty, they do not
come open by accident and as the gas is inside the bottle without any
oxygen, the risk of explosion is zero.
In the event of an accident a gas bottle on the outside of your vehicle
becomes a potential bomb or projectile and is far more likely to do damage,
in my opinion both hi lift jacks and gas bottles on the outside of other
peoples vehicles should be outlawed in the strongest terms as they
constitute a serious threat to the life of other road users.
DP
Gregg Howard
wheels on the mudguard. Then you can actually make a closed gas
bottle bracket.
Did you get the link for the pics of my trailer?
gregg
On 3/9/07, Fanie du Plessis <fst...@mweb.co.za> wrote:
>......
Peter Levey
Peter
Marc Hall - isinyoni
Agreed. If there is a leak, you *should* notice it relatively quickly and before it becomes a hazard.
From:
overlan...@googlegroups.com [mailto:overlan...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Peter Levey
Sent: 09 March 2007 08:17
To:
overlan...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [Overland]
Re: Gas Bottles In a Trailer - Any Dangers?
No problem with keeping
them inside if the bottles are in good condition and closed properly.
Peter
Paul Oxley
>No problem with keeping them inside if the bottles are in good condition
and closed properly.
I have experienced gas bottles (particularly the ones with the old Cadac
lever pinned in place by a stovetop) opening itself in the loadbay by
shaking/vibrating against another piece of equipment. You don't smell the
slow gas leak because the gas sinks down to the floor and accumulates in a
big puddle. VERY, VERY dangerous. Who here has passed by the burnt out Kombi
near Baine's Baobabs or the burnt out Toyota in Makgadikgadi Pans National
Park and wondered what caused the fire?
Simple rule of thumb: Fuel and gas outside, water inside!
Regards
Paul Oxley
AfricanAdrenalin.com
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Hennie Rautenbach
> Carrying gas bottles on the outside of your vehicle must be largely a
> landrover thing (just think when you last saw one hanging off any other kind
> of vehicle), it comes from a mental accustomisation that all things will
> naturally fail or leak.
>
You can be a real arse at times...
Paul Oxley
infantile sniping and point-scoring is not worth getting upset about. It's
POETSday, be happy!
Regards
Paul Oxley
AfricanAdrenalin.com
IMPORTANT: This email is intended for the use of the individual addressee(s)
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-----Original Message-----
From: overlan...@googlegroups.com
[mailto:overlan...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Hennie Rautenbach
Sent: 09 March 2007 08:43 AM
To: overlan...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [Overland] Re: Gas Bottles In a Trailer - Any Dangers?
Donald Pittendrigh
Thankyou, you are too kind, do you agree or have some other explanation for
the remarkable phenomenon??
DP
-----Original Message-----
From: overlan...@googlegroups.com
[mailto:overlan...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Hennie Rautenbach
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 8:43 AM
To: overlan...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [Overland] Re: Gas Bottles In a Trailer - Any Dangers?
Donald Pittendrigh
Just don't leave your gas key in while traveling, I would have thought??
DP
Jean Struweg
Dave Rooney
Nepgen, Jaco J
Carrying gas bottles on the outside of your vehicle must be largely a
landrover thing (just think when you last saw one hanging off any other
kind of vehicle), it comes from a mental accustomisation that all things
will naturally fail or leak.
But Jealousy makes you nasty !!!!!! Green with envy - Green Like
Hennie's Land Rover
JN
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Donald Pittendrigh
Yes jealous of course, but as this is not a landcruiser vs landrover debate,
what do you think about the danger of 120km/hr (160km/hr in certain cases)
gas bottles at a roadside accident???
DP
-----Original Message-----
From: overlan...@googlegroups.com
[mailto:overlan...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Nepgen, Jaco J
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 9:10 AM
To: overlan...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [Overland] Re: Gas Bottles In a Trailer - Any Dangers?
Gregg Howard
are more issues than the gas bottles.
As to gas bottles coming loose there are more concerning items on a
kitted 4x4 ... like a 50kg roof top tent which is normally only held
on by four 10mm bolts ... 20kg jerry cans ... etc.
gregg
On 3/9/07, Donald Pittendrigh <don...@iasicc.co.za> wrote:
>
>
Donald Pittendrigh
Yes of course, but does this mean the gas bottle as a potentially explosive
projectile is OK?
Also somehow I would be less worried about a RTT which is aerodynamically
challenged, than a gas bottle or hi lift jack, which are two personal
favourites seen on other vehicles, I do carry water and petrol, (rather a
lot of it) on the outside of my vehicle, but don't fill tanks when not
required, when required this would be rather slow traveling in bush, and
also remove the fuel racks and cans in their entirety when the vehicle is on
day to day town duty. Would remove the water tank too however it is plastic
and aerodynamically challenged, see above.
I agree petrol should never be carried inside a vehicle as most containers
leak, this industry is hardly subjected to the same type of regulation as
the gas bottle industry and in fact most fuel cans are UTS, but then that's
not really the subject of the debate, also the original enquiry was WRT
transport inside a trailer if I am not mistaken, certainly the safer place
to put the bottles is inside the trailer, and no, definitely DO NOT leave
the gas key in place, (even if you are a duck)
Nepgen, Jaco J
If something hit the gas bottles there will be nothing left of the car
or the people inside. The Gas Bottles are really fitted high onto the
vehicle.
In all honesty I would rather have the bottle outside the car when being
in a accident that inside - And why the hell are you driving at 160KM
Nee man
JN
-----Original Message-----
From: overlan...@googlegroups.com
[mailto:overlan...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Donald Pittendrigh
Sent: 09 March, 2007 09:21
To: overlan...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [Overland] Re: Gas Bottles In a Trailer - Any Dangers?
Yes jealous of course, but as this is not a landcruiser vs landrover
debate, what do you think about the danger of 120km/hr (160km/hr in
certain cases) gas bottles at a roadside accident???
DP
-----Original Message-----
From: overlan...@googlegroups.com
[mailto:overlan...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Nepgen, Jaco J
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 9:10 AM
To: overlan...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [Overland] Re: Gas Bottles In a Trailer - Any Dangers?
Donald wrote
Carrying gas bottles on the outside of your vehicle must be largely a
landrover thing (just think when you last saw one hanging off any other
kind of vehicle), it comes from a mental accustomisation that all things
will naturally fail or leak.
But Jealousy makes you nasty !!!!!! Green with envy - Green Like
Hennie's Land Rover
JN
Gys Vermeulen
Gys Vermeulen
Phambili Africa Safaris
Registered Overland Guide GP2096, Animal Scientist
email address: gys.ve...@gmail.com
Cell RSA: (+27)(0)8243473
Cell Botswana: +267 71574092
Office: +267 5330434
Fax: +267 5330305
PO Box 10487 Woodhall (Lobatse) Botswana.
Dikgomo ke banka ya Motswana
Jerry Wienand
Donald asked:
>Yes of course, but does this mean the gas bottle as a potentially explosive
projectile is OK?
Ever heard of chicken licken? Not the food franchise;-)
Being reasonable persons as we are, the risk has been evaluated.
Lets see:
1) The probability of the gas bottle becoming a potentially explosive projectile? not very likely.. unless it's rolling around loose on the roof rack! Ok excluding outright stupidity, extremely unlikely.
2) Would the gas inside the bottle explode on impact? No, it needs to be ignited (remember the gas is a liquid)! so the impact will not detonate the gas!
So I'd be inclined to say, if the gas bottle is properly secured, then there is no 'explosive projectile' risk!
I have personally witnessed two gas bottles, that were not properly secured, 'falling off' a Land Cruiser! They did not explode, even though they struck the tarred road at about 100km/h. They just bounced away! and only suffered some scratches, in fact they are still in service today!
Jerry
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Donald Pittendrigh
I don't (frequently) intentionally travel at 160 in my Cruiser, but have the
option, many others also have the option and do so regularly, in fact there
was a posting to this effect recently on this forum, I cant remember by
whom, applauding his vehicle due to its superior top end, or was that LCCSA
forum, maybe.
Something is more likely to hit a gas bottle perched on the outside of a
vehicle, although it would have to be quite something substantial to pierce
the bottle, it would also not necessarily cause and explosion even if it did
set the gas alight, although this is possible. If it did set the gas alight,
the gas would not likely explode unless it was in a confined area, such as
inside your vehicle. The danger of piercing a bottle inside your vehicle is
small unless it is involved in a substantial accident in which case it could
be rather high likelihood at elevated speeds, so the question is rather
simple, if you stuff up and get it wrong while traveling at 160, should you
go up in a ball of smoke, or is it better to toss your high speed gas bottle
at someone else?
In a trailer this may be a moot point, in an accident at 160 a trailer would
come apart at the seams anyway and so the gas bottle become a projectile
none the less, but under reasonable freeway speed I still maintain inside is
safer.
Now what about the possibility of a gas bottle exploding due to being heated
up in the sun whilst outside the vehicle, failure of a seam, rusted bottle,
faulty or damaged fusible plug, cant help wondering about this, and would
rather not find out, so - gas bottle still inside the truck for me.
Kelvin James
Simple rule of thumb: Fuel and gas outside, water inside!
==================================
When I got into overlanding I was advised to do this and it has worked
remarkably well since. No issues at all, ever. Plus having the bottles
outside was always a bonus when getting to camp late and trying to get the
tent up while SWAMBO was getting food organised as they could be unclipped
and have the mielies steaming much quicker than if they were inside
somewhere.
As an aside. We had a vehicle with us on the road from Savuti to Kachekabwe
that had bottles inside. They were shaken around by the horrendous road and
started leaking - the oke had left the key in. In the morning at Chobe
Safari Lodge when the vehicle was opened is was like a bad day of the wind
blowing from Sasolburg. It could have been very nasty if he had jacked up a
gwaai ...... If the bottle was outside the only issue would have been no gas
... Not no head !
Cheers
Kelvin (long weekend in Oz and off down the Great Ocean Road for a few days
.... :-)
Donald Pittendrigh
The danger is definitely overstated, in fact in my construction site life, I
have on multiple occasions seen both oxygen and acetylene bottles fall and
break off their regulators releasing high pressure gas at considerable
speed, the real danger is the bottle flying around in the area and breaking
legs, and oxygen is more dangerous than acetylene in many regards, as
acetylene bottles are filled with some crystalline material which retards
the gas escaping(or so I am told).
While I am comforted by the fact that the gas bottles which fell of your
cruiser did not explode, or we would likely not be sharing this multilog
today, it is also true that they would not have been near so likely to have
fallen had they been inside the vehicle.
I wonder for example if Aubrey would have felt better had he tied his gas
bottle down nicely when this happened.
http://braaigrid.org.za/aubrey/imagepages/image3.htm
Basically anything not tied down on a roof rack would be a fine statement of
the intelligence of the driver and should doubtless result in his
prosecution.
DP
-----Original Message-----
From: overlan...@googlegroups.com
[mailto:overlan...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Wienand
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 10:12 AM
To: overlan...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [Overland] Re: Gas Bottles In a Trailer - Any Dangers?
Kelvin James
a fine statement of
the intelligence of the driver and should doubtless result in his
prosecution.
==================================
Hey Donald .....
Quit while you are behind, mate !
No stress ...
Kelvin
Donald Pittendrigh
There's that gas key thing again.............. Now that is a critical
safety factor and should not be ignored, leaving the key in the bottle also
allows the inquisitive child from the campsite next door to come and do you
in, this is basic safety, while ignited the gas key in place so closing the
bottle in an emergency is easier, while not in use, key out, and preferably
accessories disconnected with dust plug in the hole.
DP
-----Original Message-----
From: overlan...@googlegroups.com
[mailto:overlan...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Kelvin James
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 10:22 AM
To: overlan...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [Overland] Re: Gas Bottles In a Trailer - Any Dangers?
Donald Pittendrigh
Kelvin
Off to work now anyway, then I shall leave you all to it.
Bye now
DP
Jean Struweg
Fanie du Plessis
throwing my way I would prefer the gas cylinder any day before a jerry can
filled with petrol.
A gas cylinder will withstand some abuse, may bounce of a vehicle and travel
on, a jerry can on the other hand will split open on impact and dump 20
litres of petrol which will be highly likely to catch fire and burn you to
death if you are trapped for more than a few seconds.
Same goes if you roll your 4x4 with gas cylinder and jerries on roof, the
gas cylinder may survivr the roll but I pretty much doubt if thes new made
in china jerries will stay in one piece.
Regards
Fanie
Kelvin James
btu...@mmm.com
My trailer does not have wide wheel arches where a gas bottle can fit. I
would either have to put it on the back (aka landy setup) or in front next
to the nose cone.
Bruce
Gregg Howard
the bottles.
gregg
Fanie du Plessis
> would either have to put it on the back (aka landy setup) or in front next
> to the nose cone.
>
> Bruce
In front next to nose cone the gas bottles could get sandblasted from the
stones kicked up from the tow vehicle, if you do fit it there use a bracket
with a screening plate.
Fanie
bud morris
waste our powers, little we see in nature that is ours, we have given out
hearts away......."
Sorry guys - poets day & all!
Trying to get hold of you Paul
Bud Morris
011 609 6924
Subject: [Overland] Re: Gas Bottles In a Trailer - Any Dangers?
Conrad Bonorchis
>Yes of course, but does this mean the gas bottle as a potentially explosive
projectile is OK?
Back when I was a lot younger (holiday at end of 1st year varsity), myself
and 4 mates loaded up my Opel Rekord and my mates's old man's trailer and
headed down to Balito for some wild partying.
My mate was driving and midway between Harrismith and Ladismith he handed me
a tape to play and his right hand followed his left hand and he basically
steered off the road. His reaction was to swerve back onto the road and the
trailer was flicked up when it hit the verge coming back onto the road. I
was hitting his hands off the steering wheel so the car could readjust
itself (approach I learnt doing rally driving as a hobby - leaving the
steering wheel, not the hitting!)
This was all too late for the trailer which had torn off the hook and
started cartwheeling, I remember a gas cylinder flying over my car and over
an oncoming car. Thank heavens it missed them coz that cylinder was MOVING!
We found it about 200 meters away, scratched and a dent in the base ring.
Had it checked out and used it for our 2 week camping holiday.
Explosive no, but super dangerous projectile yes. And that came out of the
venter trailer, so I recon it doesn't matter where it is, inside or outside,
it is gonna fly when it gets loose. I always tie cylinders firmly down if
they are inside, normally scuba cylinders now days, I shudder to think of
being in a roll over and those cylinders come loose! The people in the car
would probably survive the prang but get pulped by the cylinders.
My scary 2c!
Conrad
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10:58 AM
Gregg Howard
traveling in rolled with diving cylinders in. One of the cylinders
killed him
gregg
On 3/9/07, Conrad Bonorchis <con...@sheq.co.za> wrote:
>
> .....
Paul Oxley
Regards
Paul Oxley
AfricanAdrenalin.com
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-----Original Message-----
From: overlan...@googlegroups.com
[mailto:overlan...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Gregg Howard
Sent: 09 March 2007 01:02 PM
To: overlan...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [Overland] Re: Gas Bottles In a Trailer - Any Dangers?
Mike Lauterbach
>
A lot of cr@p has been thrown around on this subject, including a suggestion
for prosecuting those who travel with cylinders and Hi Lift Jacks attached
to the outside :-(
Wonder if it is a Land Cruiser thing, as mention was made of cylinders
falling off a LC...sorry, just joking...
I have not seen many vehicles where the gas bottles are properly fastened
with brackets inside vehicles. You will definitely stand a higher chance of
being killed by your own gas bottle inside your car in an accident, than one
attached to the outside of your car (or from the other car). From a safety
aspect, the better options are those brackets at the rear of vehicle, and
not those on top, which will dislodge themselves in a roll over or high
impact.
I do agree that some Hi Lift jacks are often irresponsibly mounted on top of
bull bars. These are very dangerous, and when they break off can smash
through the windscreen. A lot of those fitted to the back of vehicles will
not easily become detached.
Yes, agreed with Fanie (I think who mentioned it) - I would much rather
encounter a gas bottle than a petrol container. Both can kill on impact,
but if you are spared from a direct impact (because of eg a pillar), the
spilled petrol will still find you. The RTT, even unaerodynamic, will not
have slowed down much after 20m or so due to air resistance, and with its
higher momentum, will be able to inflict more damage than the airborne gas
bottle.
Shame, the poor old gas bottle has taken a beating here today. It would be
interesting what you guys think about carrying diving bottles in your car in
an accident. I would rather be in a situation with a punctured gas bottle,
than with a highly pressurised punctured diving cylinder, which will not
stay in a cylindrical form for very long....but this is a subject for
another flame war...
Cheers
Mike
Hans van Houtem
> A gas cylinder will withstand some abuse, may bounce of a vehicle and
> travel on, a jerry can on the other hand will split open on impact
> and dump 20 litres of petrol which will be highly likely to catch
> fire and burn you to death if you are trapped for more than a few
> seconds.
Tens of thousands of cars in our over-regulated Holland (but also in the
rest of Europe) have one or more gas cylinders on the inside of the
vehicle. And not the tiny Cadac ones. No! Huge cylinders. My 101FC for
instance carries two 80 litre cylinders containing Liquified Petroleum Gas.
Two things: the cylinders are mounted in decent brackets and the
fittings are enclosed and with an exhaust to the outside of the vehicle.
You can be sure most gas cylinders are over-specified when it comes to
abuse.
Hans.
Donald Pittendrigh
Hi Hans
You ever see one on a roof rack???
And this is my final parting sh1t ooops sorry make that shot.
DP
Hans van Houtem
> You ever see one on a roof rack???
mounted on the roof.
Hans :p
Donald Pittendrigh
Oh well then I guess it should be OK for landrovers too.
DP
-----Original Message-----
From: overlan...@googlegroups.com
[mailto:overlan...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Hans van Houtem
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 9:37 PM
To: overlan...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [Overland] Re: Gas Bottles In a Trailer - Any Dangers?
Derrick Slogrove
years ago. Both bottles slightly scratched, but still in use today.
Interestingly, the No7 cylinder stayed in the bracket, the strap being above
the weld seam, but the No10 came out and bounced down the road, the strap
being below the weld seam, practically destroyed the bracket on the way out.
The whole roof rack was ripped off and came to rest about 20m from the
Landy, still with gas bottle and 2 jerry cans in place.
Regards,
Derrick Slogrove
-----Original Message-----
From: overlan...@googlegroups.com
[mailto:overlan...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike Lauterbach
Sent: 09 March 2007 03:06 PM
To: overlan...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [Overland] Re: Gas Bottles In a Trailer - Any Dangers?
Cheers
Mike
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Hennie Rautenbach
> BTDT having rolled a Landy with two Cadac bottles on the roof rack some
> years ago. Both bottles slightly scratched, but still in use today.
> Interestingly, the No7 cylinder stayed in the bracket, the strap being above
> the weld seam, but the No10 came out and bounced down the road, the strap
> being below the weld seam, practically destroyed the bracket on the way out.
> The whole roof rack was ripped off and came to rest about 20m from the
> Landy, still with gas bottle and 2 jerry cans in place.
>
> Regards,
>
> Derrick Slogrove
>
If at all possible I'd appreciate it if you can share images of the
incident with us, to be published here:
http://www.overland.co.za/Lessons_Learnt/index.html
Regards,
Hennie