Disco 4 and fancy alternator

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Fernihough

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Jul 23, 2012, 2:37:41 AM7/23/12
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Morning,

 

Does anyone know if the Disco 4 has an intelligent alternator? Specifically, I want to know if it will stop charging once it senses or thinks that the cranking battery is full, thus not being able to charge an auxiliary battery properly?

 

One of my clients says he thinks it does this, but not sure. According to a landrover techie he spoke to, it does not, but I am hoping someone on  the forum has one and can confirm?

 

Thanks

Jacque

 

 

Christo Steyn

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Jul 23, 2012, 2:46:59 AM7/23/12
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Hi Djaak

I have volt meters attached to both batteries - it is connected with a VSR. The Alternator is intelligent as the voltages varies all the time Highest i have seen was 14.78 for a short burst and when the lights come on, it charges offten at 14.15.

This was the same as on the D3

Cheers
CS

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Fernihough

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Jul 23, 2012, 3:04:42 AM7/23/12
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But does it charge your aux batteries properly?

 

Cheers

Christo Steyn

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Jul 23, 2012, 3:47:39 AM7/23/12
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Absolutely yes!

Fernihough

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Jul 23, 2012, 4:02:07 AM7/23/12
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Hi,

 

Awesome!

 

Do you think using a Ctek D250S DC/DC charger instead of the VSR would be a problem? Anyone have a D3/D4 with a Ctek D250S?

 

Cheers

Jacque

Christo Steyn

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Jul 23, 2012, 4:03:49 AM7/23/12
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Cannot answer this one - have no experience with DC/DC charger.

Fernihough

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Jul 23, 2012, 4:18:48 AM7/23/12
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Thanks, hopefully someone else on the forum does J

Eben.H...@fluor.com

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Jul 23, 2012, 4:43:26 AM7/23/12
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From various sources:
http://www.4x4community.co.za/forum/showthread.php?t=53727

Get hold of Karl at BRS 011-8344951/2. He developed the dual battery sytem for LRSA for the D3.

This might chuck a spanner in there......

An Intelligent Power Management System includes Smart Regenerative Charging, so whenever possible the alternator charges the battery when it is most economical to do so, such as when the car is coasting rather than accelerating.

I'd say it is a managed charging system and two controllers in a row trying to do the same thing is never good.

Perhaps just 'hide' the load behind the battery ?

EbenH.

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Fernihough

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Jul 23, 2012, 5:00:03 AM7/23/12
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Indeed, either way, the load will be “hidden” behind the cranking battery J

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Jeremy Bruce

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Jul 23, 2012, 6:52:23 AM7/23/12
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Jacques
I have gone fairly low tech on my installation. Nat Luna battery box in the boot. The alternator charges it up very easily. 
I notice on the Nat Luna control panel lights that sometimes it will show that the cranking battery has charged up and the alternator backs off charge. When the aux battery kicks in after 5 mins or I manually switch it in the charge rate from the alternator then jumps up again. 
Compared to simple installations of marine switches I had in my disco 1 and 2 this set up seems to charge a lot quicker and the battery charge doesn't get as low as it used to when using fridge etc. 
With hindsight I would have gone for the optima under bonnet be ause the battery box takes up too much packing space. 
JB
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A.H. (Eric) Sommer

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Jul 23, 2012, 7:03:05 AM7/23/12
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>> With hindsight I would have gone for the optima under bonnet

 

Think carefully about that. Every time I have had a battery under the bonnet, it has not lasted.

The original battery is usually on the ‘cooler’ side of the engine bay and doesn’t suffer as much as the ‘aux’ batteries which generally are on the hotter side of the bay, and their life is reduced.

 

R0.02

 

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Jacque Fernihough

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Jul 23, 2012, 7:56:27 AM7/23/12
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Yip, batteries don't like getting hot.


On 23 Jul 2012, at 1:03 PM, "A.H. \(Eric\) Sommer" <zr6...@gmail.com> wrote:

>> With hindsight I would have gone for the optima under bonnet

 

Think carefully about that. Every time I have had a battery under the bonnet, it has not lasted.

The original battery is usually on the ‘cooler’ side of the engine bay and doesn’t suffer as much as the ‘aux’ batteries which generally are on the hotter side of the bay, and their life is reduced.

 

R0.02

 

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<image001.jpg> 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Jacque Fernihough

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Jul 23, 2012, 7:58:58 AM7/23/12
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Thanks Jeremy.

For what it's worth, Ctek themselves say the Ctek D250S will work fine in the disco 3 or 4.

Cheers
Jacque

Christo Steyn

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Jul 24, 2012, 2:33:42 AM7/24/12
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Disco 3 and 4 have two battery positions in the engine bay... it is for left and right hand drive... so all we do is to utilise the "other side".. :-)

A.H. (Eric) Sommer

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Jul 24, 2012, 2:41:38 AM7/24/12
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>> Disco 3 and 4 have two battery positions in the engine bay... it is for left and right hand drive... so all we do is to utilise the "other side".. :-)

Be that as it may, the heat issue is still there. J

 

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Fanie du Plessis

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Jul 24, 2012, 3:17:45 AM7/24/12
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Can confirm, I had two cars that had batteries in the boot, and they lasted 5 years plus with no problems, the Audi had a battery under the rear seat and it went south soon as nobody ever venture there to check fluids, not even the dealers when it was serviced.

Regards


Fanie

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Mac Mc Laren

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Jul 24, 2012, 3:51:10 AM7/24/12
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Batteries are severely impacted by heat, as on average a battery does not last more than 1 year here in Saudi..... Sofar I had to buy a new battery every year - 14 months. batteries mounted in the back of the BMW fared better.
image001.jpg

Alan Calenborne

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Jul 24, 2012, 11:04:11 AM7/24/12
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I put an aux deep cycle battery in the spare "compartment" in the engine bay of my Disco 3 when I bought it 7 years ago. I replaced it one month ago before going to Mana Pools. Heat did'nt seem to effect it at al!

Clem Daniel

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Jul 24, 2012, 12:21:38 PM7/24/12
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On Tuesday, July 24, 2012 5:04:11 PM UTC+2, Alan Calenborne wrote:
I put an aux deep cycle battery in the spare "compartment" in the engine bay of my Disco 3 when I bought it 7 years ago. I replaced it one month ago before going to Mana Pools. Heat did'nt seem to effect it at al!

Same in my Discovery  1. One of those caravan type deep cycle batteries. Nearly made eight years .  

Jeremy Bruce

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Jul 24, 2012, 3:26:42 PM7/24/12
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Yip. Disco 1 delco 105ah lasted 7 years of hard use under the bonnet. 
I am still thinking through how I want to set up my removable storage solution in the boot of the disco 3. 
Nice design in the latest SA 4x4 mag. I might use that for inspiration. I want to maximize space after securing the 40l engel and the Nat Luna battery pack. 
The disco has loads of space but that gets used very quickly by swambo and my 2 daughters. 
Might still end up going back to doing a 2nd battery under the bonnet. 

JB 
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Juan van der Breggen

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Jul 24, 2012, 3:30:20 PM7/24/12
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Hi Jacque

Karl installed the system into my Disco 4, and I had the same system (also done by Karl) in my previous two Disco 3s. Never had a problem and the system works great, and his system is endorsed by Land Rover SA, therefore no worries about the warrantee on your vehicle. (The dealer actually took my car to him before delivery to have it fitted) The system was called Genysis, I think it is now called Oryx.

For some reason there is more room in the Disco 4 engine bay and he managed to fit a 120Amp deep cycle battery. From the second battery he fitted the cable and plug for the trailer, and a Brad-Harrison and Hella plugs in the loading bay. The system comes with a neat digital display that is fitted in the top glove box, that displays both the vehicle and auxiliary battery charge. The system will only start to charge the second battery once the vehicle battery has reached, I think, 13 Volts. Therefore it is not time based, but charged based, and another feature is that it will cut out the current to the fridge, etc. if the charge falls below 10.5V, thereby saving the battery. Karl will be able to give you more information.

Regards
Juan

Juan van der Breggen

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Jul 24, 2012, 3:35:23 PM7/24/12
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I have had no problems with heat, it was the car's battery that died first after 4 years of service. Fortunately I had a the second battery, managed to start the Disco from that and Land Rover replaced the car's battery as part of the service plan.

As to whether the alternator delivers enough charge to maintain both batteries, on our trips to Botswana and Namibia, we went for days where the car charged both batteries and the Xplorer's battery without any problems.

Cheers
Juan

Jacque Fernihough

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Jul 25, 2012, 12:47:36 AM7/25/12
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Thanks Guys!
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Bruce

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Jul 26, 2012, 2:01:16 AM7/26/12
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Juan
 
Which Disco 4 do you have? There is certainly no room in the engine compartment for a 120 amp hour battery in the diesel model - max is 85amp hour. Mine fitted by BRS as well.
 
Bruce

On Tuesday, July 24, 2012 9:30:20 PM UTC+2, Juan van der Breggen wrote:
Hi Jacque

Bruce

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Jul 26, 2012, 2:19:07 AM7/26/12
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Hi Jaque
 
I have a Ctek 250S installed in my Disco 4. It works well but correct installation is crucial. Halfway through my recent Zambia trip I noticed that the solar panel indicator was flickering and I thought the unit was faulty. The solar panel was not charging the battery. Calls to Ctek in RSA were a waste of time as they were unable to assist other than to suggest that one of the three internal fuses was blown (did you know of these fuses?). After spending some time "fiddling" with the wiring looking for a bad connection which I had experienced in a Genesys installation in my daughter's Disco 4, I found that you cannot connect the D250S negative terminal to the vehicle battery but it needs to be connected to a earth on the vehicle body. I cannot explain this other than to say that the measured resistance in the connecting cable from the Ctek to vehicle battery was 56 ohms. Once the cable was moved to the body earth it went to 0 ohms which is what you would expect. Now all is working well.
 
The alternator is defintely "smart", i monitore the battery voltages and the voltage on the main battery varies from 13.5v to 14.5v while driving and depending on the load placed on the battery.
 
Bruce Richards

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Fernihough

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Jul 26, 2012, 2:38:30 AM7/26/12
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Thanks Bruce.

 

All the negatives (Cranking battery, Aux battery and solar panel) need to be connected to the same negative terminal on the D250S. And by virtue of the cranking battery negative being connected to this terminal, the whole lot should be earthed to the chassis. Or so I would have thought……

 

Perhaps you had a dodgy earth chassis connection? Unlikely though on a new vehicle????

 

Anyway, glad you got it working, and that you have no issues with running the D250S per se. And No, the manual does not mention any fuses?

 

Cheers

Jacque

 

 

From: overlan...@googlegroups.com [mailto:overlan...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Bruce
Sent: 26 July 2012 08:19
To: overlan...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [Overland] Disco 4 and fancy alternator

 

Hi Jaque

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Mike Lauterbach

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Jul 26, 2012, 2:46:46 AM7/26/12
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It should not matter whether you connect the negative to the battery terminal or to the chassis, as these are connected by a good earth cable.  Concur with Jacque that there was probably a dodgy connection somewhere.  The resistance in a cable stays constant, irrespective of what is connected to it

Cheers
Mike

Bruce

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Jul 27, 2012, 3:20:20 AM7/27/12
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Hi Mike
 
I understand what you are saying that the vehicle battery and the vehicle earth is the same but it seems that nothing is that simple in Land Rovers. Whilst the negative terminal of the D205S is connected to the vehicle battery the solar panel does not charge the auxillary battery. I even tried to add an additional earth wire to the vehicle leaving the existing connection to the vehicle battery and this did not solve the problem, confirming that there was not a bad connection in the existing wiring. Only by removing the connection to the vehicle battery did the solar side of the D250S start charging the auxillary battery.
 
As i said nothing is as it seems in a Land Rover.
 
Bruce

 
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Fernihough

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Jul 27, 2012, 4:54:47 AM7/27/12
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Out of interest, is the earth from the solar panel, “earthed” to the body anywhere else?

 

Weird one indeed!! Glad you got it working. The Ctek D250S Dual is an awesome piece of kit. And yes, I am biased J

 

Cheers

Jacque

 

From: overlan...@googlegroups.com [mailto:overlan...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Bruce
Sent: 27 July 2012 09:20
To: overlan...@googlegroups.com
Cc: zs5...@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [Overland] Disco 4 and fancy alternator

 

Hi Mike

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Dave

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Jul 27, 2012, 5:00:51 AM7/27/12
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Or Is the solar panel a positive earth?

Emanuel Berger

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Jul 27, 2012, 5:01:16 AM7/27/12
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Hi Bruce

56 ohms resistance you should only measure with a very long and / or thin cable. It seems to be a poor connection somewhere to me too.

Greeting
Emanuel

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-------- Original-Nachricht --------
> Datum: Fri, 27 Jul 2012 00:20:20 -0700 (PDT)
> Von: Bruce <bruce.m...@gmail.com>
> An: overlan...@googlegroups.com
> CC: zs5...@gmail.com
> Betreff: Re: [Overland] Disco 4 and fancy alternator
> > *From:* overlan...@googlegroups.com [
> > mailto:overlan...@googlegroups.com
> <overlan...@googlegroups.com>]
> > *On Behalf Of *Bruce
> > *Sent:* 26 July 2012 08:19
> > *To:* overlan...@googlegroups.com
> > *Subject:* Re: [Overland] Disco 4 and fancy alternator
> > *From:* overlan...@googlegroups.com [mailto:
> > overlan...@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Christo Steyn
> > *Sent:* 23 July 2012 09:48
> > *To:* overlan...@googlegroups.com
> > *Subject:* Re: [Overland] Disco 4 and fancy alternator
> >
> >
> >
> > Absolutely yes!
> >
> > On 23 July 2012 09:04, Fernihough <fernf...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > But does it charge your aux batteries properly?
> >
> >
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > *From:* overlan...@googlegroups.com [mailto:
> > overlan...@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Christo Steyn
> > *Sent:* 23 July 2012 08:47
> > *To:* overlan...@googlegroups.com
> > *Subject:* Re: [Overland] Disco 4 and fancy alternator
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi Djaak
> >
> > I have volt meters attached to both batteries - it is connected with a
> > VSR. The Alternator is intelligent as the voltages varies all the time
> > Highest i have seen was 14.78 for a short burst and when the lights come
> > on, it charges offten at 14.15.
> >
> > This was the same as on the D3
> >
> > Cheers
> > CS
> >
> > On 23 July 2012 08:37, Fernihough <fernf...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Morning,
> >
> >
> >
> > Does anyone know if the Disco 4 has an intelligent alternator?
> > Specifically, I want to know if it will stop charging once it senses or
> > thinks that the cranking battery is full, thus not being able to charge
> an
> > auxiliary battery properly?
> >
> >
> >
> > One of my clients says he thinks it does this, but not sure. According
> to
> > a landrover techie he spoke to, it does not, but I am hoping someone on
> > the forum has one and can confirm?
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Jacque
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > DO YOU WANT TO UNSUBSCRIBE ? Then send a blank email to:
> > overland-foru...@googlegroups.com
> >
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> > http://www.overland.co.za/phpBB3/viewforum.php?f=2
> >
> >
> >
> > --
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A.H. (Eric) Sommer

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Jul 29, 2012, 2:42:09 AM7/29/12
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>> Out of interest, is the earth from the solar panel, “earthed” to the body anywhere else?

 

Err – according to my understanding – both leads of the solar panel should go into the solar controller and nowhere else.

The leads from the SC should go to the battery, and nowhere else.

 

That is a piece of kit that measures voltage, current and uses resistance to work out how much to let through.


Adding a cr@p bit of body grounding (and all vehicles body grounding is suspect until proven otherwise – it sits on rubber mounts!!!!!!!) – will only confuse the issue.

 

Anyone who has tried to ground the body of their vehicle correctly for purposes of radio comms interference elimination will understand that one.

 

Cheers

image001.jpg

Hennie Rautenbach

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Jul 29, 2012, 3:05:27 AM7/29/12
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Sent from my iPad

<image001.jpg> 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Juan van der Breggen

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Jul 29, 2012, 2:49:34 PM7/29/12
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Hi Bruce

Sorry, was out for the weekend...made a mix up with the battery in the offroad caravan, which is a 120amp hour You are correct the one in the Disco 4 is an 85 amp hour. Mine is mounted on the left between the window washer bottle and the main battery.

Juan
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