Angola Trip Report

[Hennie Rautenbach]

Good reading for a misrable day :-)

Paul & lin Fisher wrote up their recent experience when they tagged along with Koos Moorcroft on one of his Cunene to Congo tours. Make for interesting reading.

http://www.overland.co.za/feedback/Angola_Trip_Reports.html

Best regards

Hennie

[Jeff Morris]

Poor old Koos!

Excellently written report. I could do a trip with Paul & Co anytime!
They enjoy what I enjoy, especially, small convoys, cooking together,
bush camps.

Best regards, Jeff

[Hennie Rautenbach]

The lesson (IMHO) is do such a trip yourself and not through a guide. Convoys are a pain in the ass, even if you know the participants. Imagine one, as arduous as that and you have never met the other participants. It's asking for trouble.

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[lostshepard]

Yes Hennie to a very large extent you are right but going into a
country like Angola, where, if you do not speak Portuguese you are at
a great disadvantage from the get go can be a problem. Also there are
convoys & convoys and if you go with someone like Frank Carlisle of
Bhejane.com with whom we've done 17 trips you could not wish for
better.

The fact being that we've only been doing this for just over 5 years
and in the beginning we needed people like Frank as we had no
experience - now we are doing more and more on our own. Of course
going into the desert, like the faces of the Namib trip, and the new
ones that Volker is doing, you have no choice and you have to have a
guide. We did the faces trip in March this year and had two jokers in
the pack - thank heavens we were only 5 cars - can you imagine what a
convoy of 13 or 14 would be like with say 4 jokers - it doesn't bear
thinking about !! :-(

As I said in my report, going off with a group of people you don't
know for 10 days is one thing but 28 days is another matter entirely !

Thanks for putting the reports up - cheers paul

On Oct 18, 7:55 am, Hennie Rautenbach <hennie.rautenb...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> The lesson (IMHO) is do such a trip yourself and not through a guide.
> Convoys are a pain in the ass, even if you know the participants. Imagine
> one, as arduous as that and you have never met the other participants. It's
> asking for trouble.
>

> On Mon, Oct 18, 2010 at 7:50 AM, Jeff Morris <jeffwmor...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Poor old Koos!
>
> > Excellently written report. I could do a trip with Paul & Co anytime!
> > They enjoy what I enjoy, especially, small convoys, cooking together,
> > bush camps.
>
> > Best regards, Jeff
>
> > --
> > DO YOU WANT TO UNSUBSCRIBE ? Then send a blank email to:

> > overland-foru...@googlegroups.com<overland-forum%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>

[Nico Roets]

I don't know Koos, but it seems to me as if the participants had unrealistic expectations. It often happens on trips into undeveloped countries that there are no or very poor facilities. Its part of overlanding and part of what makes it adventurous. What struck me was the complaint about only being able to go to one Shoprite on the trip. Really!

 

I make no comment on the fact that it seems as if the itinerary was poorly planned and that the tour leader had no or limited knowledge of the areas toured through. That is inexcusable.

--
Regards,
Nico Roets
Find me on Flicr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/nico_roets/sets/

[lostshepard]

Ni Nico you could not be more wrong ! If you read the report properly
you would have seen that I said that we had NO expectations - Koos was
completely upfront about just what not to expect he cannot be
criticized about that -he made it quite clear that this was not the
"usual" over the border tour. The shoprite remark was tongue in cheek
- my English sense of humour - The hardships of the trip were all
expected what was not expected from an ex-military man was poor
planning, poor radio communications, bad campsites - which he knew
about from previous experiences, not being a proper guide IRO no local
or nature related knowledge other than military and the debacle of
Ilses accident in Lubango and the fact that his back up plan did not
appear to work - Ilse will, I have no doubt, expand on that here in
due course.

On Oct 18, 8:37 am, Nico Roets <roets.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I don't know Koos, but it seems to me as if the participants had unrealistic
> expectations. It often happens on trips into undeveloped countries that
> there are no or very poor facilities. Its part of overlanding and part of
> what makes it adventurous. What struck me was the complaint about only being
> able to go to one Shoprite on the trip. Really!
>
> I make no comment on the fact that it seems as if the itinerary was poorly
> planned and that the tour leader had no or limited knowledge of the areas
> toured through. That is inexcusable.
>

> On 18 October 2010 07:55, Hennie Rautenbach <hennie.rautenb...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>
>
> > The lesson (IMHO) is do such a trip yourself and not through a guide.
> > Convoys are a pain in the ass, even if you know the participants. Imagine
> > one, as arduous as that and you have never met the other participants. It's
> > asking for trouble.
>

> > On Mon, Oct 18, 2010 at 7:50 AM, Jeff Morris <jeffwmor...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
> >> Poor old Koos!
>
> >> Excellently written report. I could do a trip with Paul & Co anytime!
> >> They enjoy what I enjoy, especially, small convoys, cooking together,
> >> bush camps.
>
> >> Best regards, Jeff
>
> >> --
> >> DO YOU WANT TO UNSUBSCRIBE ? Then send a blank email to:

> >> overland-foru...@googlegroups.com<overland-forum%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>

>
> >> 4x4's and other stuff for sale:
> >>http://www.overland.co.za/phpBB3/viewforum.php?f=2
>
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[Ivan]

<Excellently written report. I could do a trip with Paul & Co

Can someone please give the link to this trip report

Thanks

Ivan Marais

[Hennie Rautenbach]

Overland website > Trip Reports > Angola

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[Howlett Mike]

Lovely pictures and a very well written report.

Thanks for sharing with us.

Any more than 3 or 4 vehicles travelling together is a pain.

Mike

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[Ivan]

Sorry to waste some bandwidth, but the only reports I see, are the list below. ( must be cause it's monday :-)  )

 

 

 

Scanned Tourist Map of Angola [4.2 Mb Jpeg file - right-click and save]

Pierre de Wet's Angola Trip Report [4Mb Acrobat PDF] (Sept 2009)

Francois en Netta (nee Van Zyl) De Villiers' Angola Trip Report [14Mb Acrobat PDF] (Jul 2009)

Philip van Heerden's Angola Trip Report [6Mb Acrobat PDF] (Dec 2008)

T.D. du Plessis' Angola Trip Report [2Mb Acrobat PDF] (Dec 2008)

Willem Pienaar se visvang trip na Angola [Afrikaans] [1.8Mb Acrobat PDF] (Jun 2008)

Div & Ileana de Villiers Angola Images... (Jul 2007)

Div & Ileana de Villiers Angola Trip Report [Afrikaans] [1.5Mb Acrobat PDF] (Jul 2007)

Excellent Trip Report of Angola on bikes [15Mb Acrobat PDF]... (Oct 2007)

Piet Visser's "Amigos Angola 2006" tour... (April 2006)

Jurgens Schoeman's "Cape to Congo 2006" tour [Afrikaans]... (April 2006)

Dave Pierson's Cuito Cuanavale images... (April 2006)

Gerhard Roos' Angola Trip Report [Afrikaans] (July 2005)

Gerhard Roos' Angola Images [Afrikaans] (July 2005)

Jacs van Rooy's Angola Trip Report & Images [Afrikaans] (March 2005)

Pierre Radley & Trip Participants Angola Trip Images (July 2003)

Darryl Lampert's Angola Trip Report & Pictures (July 2003)

Wouter Brand's Angola Trip Report. (December 2002)

[David Le Roux]

Click on "refresh" or "reload"

[Hennie Rautenbach]

Refresh your cache. (a couple of times)

On Mon, Oct 18, 2010 at 9:37 AM, Ivan <ivanm...@gmail.com> wrote:

Sorry to waste some bandwidth, but the only reports I see, are the list below. ( must be cause it's monday :-)  )

 

 

<snip>

[Aubrey]

Wow, loved the images from Angola!

 

In general looks like an experience but I agree that at 9G’s pp, more is reasonably to be expected. Having no radio’s comms is a real pain in a convoy and there are no excuses for this. In general, I don’t think Koos is too old, I think he is just in a rut …… hard for an old man to change anything J

 

On the fridges which seemed to be a pain …..Consider solar panels.

 

Police road blocks and potholes plus terrible roads are facts in Africa. Roadblocks …smile and never seem in a hurry! Roads ….. just think how you can now gloat about the 18G OME suspension upgrade you did against SWAMBO’s advice. If these were smooth tar roads, would a Tazz work for you??

 

Maybe one day ……… but it won’t be in a large group J

[David Le Roux]

Interesting to see the photo of the wreck of the Vanessa Sea Farer, now almost buried under sand. We have discussed this wreck and shown photographs on this forum before (or was it T4A?). Three years ago it was still surrounded by water.

--

[Hennie Rautenbach]

Yes - the one image of Pierre Radley and friend's Angola expedition illustrates it the best:

http://www.overland.co.za/travel_reports/Johan_Strumpfer/Angola_July_2003/154Vanessa%20Seafood%20wreck.html

Regards

Hennie

[Netta]

I have been reading the trip report and posts on LCCSA and I am glad
it is posted on overland as well. It is a bit more effort to plan an
Cunene to Congo Angola trip but with T4A, all the reports available
and people allways willing to impart information it certainly isn't
rocket science. I would think it is if you are not comfortable in
managing the possible risks involved on your own (and they are real)
that tour operators come into play and in my book that back up and
support is what the fee is for, not for the bowel of dust you just
have to blindly follow. You would also expect a lot more local
information not available to those of us who could only rely on books
and magazines. Ilse and I communicated a while before they went on
this trip, she was experienced and prepared and I was very
dissappointed that it turned out so badly. I loved Angola, yes its
tough and yes our 2 vehicle group had our share of mechanical problems
and a run in with the imigration police but the fantastic scenery,
diversity of landscapes, feeling of adverture and exploration more
than made up for any discomfort. There are so much more I want to see,
a second trip is definitely on my list of to do's. Thank you Paul for
telling it straight like it was, a reminder to all to make sure
exactly what you get for your money before the deposit is put down.

Netta

[Nico Roets]

Glad  to get the Shoprite comment in perspective.

 

Personally I hate to travel in large convoys or to pay tour operators for something I can do myself. At least then I know I have only myself to rely on and blame if something is not up to expectations. I have been on trips with tour operators twice and in both instances I had major issues - both these people over-promised and under-delivered.

After the second trip I realised that in overland situations in remote areas or countries like Angola there is actually very little that a tour operator can do - except to drive in front and point out campsites from previous experience. He also (;like anybody else) has no or very little control over the rest.

[Fanie du Plessis]

I remember the one and only guided trip I have been on, to Lesotho trough something organised by Beeld Motoring, a Johan guy that was also involved in the Camel trophy events at some stage.

 

He  got frustrated with me trying to take the few obstacles there was through the difficult lines, rather than the easy way round as he suggested J

 

But their organising was very good, and all 2-way radio’s worked. Enjoyed it for what it was, but would most likely not go on one again.

 

 

Regards

 

 

Fanie

 

 

 

 

 

 

rom: overlan...@googlegroups.com [mailto:overlan...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Nico Roets
Sent: 18 October 2010 01:59 PM
To: overlan...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [Overland] Re: Angola Trip Report

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[Geoff Hill]

I agree with the comments re large numbers and long trips. It can also get
touchy with people you know as we are all so different.

That said it looks a magic place to visit.

Geoff

[Mike Lauterbach]

Weekend trips are fine with bigger groups, but we are very picky with longer
trips. Usually just ourselves or 2 vehicles, once with 3. Will only
consider more for special outings where guided tours and groups are the ONLY
option.

Aim to do Angola with 2 vehicles as well, but have at least 2-3 years before
I can consider that destination

Cheers
Mike

Geoff

--

[lostshepard]

Thanks for the comments and remarks, they are much appreciated - Nico
you raise some very valid points to which I tend to agree and Netta
yes Ilse's tour turned out to be one long disaster after the other.
Bad for her and her friends.

Please understand one thing though - we REALLY did enjoy ourselves and
were not fazed by anything - it was another learning curve. I would
like to go back but this time with just a couple of cars max and I
would prefer to just go up the middle and maybe come back through
Zambia. Planning to do. 2011 is already planned so this will have to
be 2012 at the earliest.

[Merwe Erasmus]

Paul

Where can we read about Ilse's experiences?

Merwe

[lostshepard]

She put up replies, initially, in my separate "Fred's Trip Report" -
The landcruiser Mascot, who was with us - on the LCCSA forum - you
need to be a member to see them. She will I am sure respond here in
due course once she sees the reports are here too.

I suppose its OK do to this ? She
said.......................QUOTE.................(copy & Paste from
LCCSA)

Paul, I'm glad to hear that there's a benefit to being 'tail-end
Charlie' ... beyond picking up strays like veering-off hire-car
drivers. You got super photos that way, which everyone clearly
appreciates (I like especially the battered-building series, though
Fred had some fine pics too).

Interesting to learn the others agreed to the trip being poorly
planned - 3 weeks dawdling along the coast, then racing in less than
one through the rest of the beautiful country - I thought it was only
me thinking so. This presumably is due to Koos having had time for
only one recce, then being loath to divert from it (cf the Lagoa Pandi
alternative to the Chinese road camp). It might be a bright idea to
reverse the trip, have 3 weeks in the interior, then travel along the
coast - fishing if you must - and end up in gorgeous Iona Park.

For those averse to convoy travel: it is possible to hire a private
guide (e.g. Ned Gomes from Flamingo Lodge; he'd do it, he told us, and
gave us his card - nedgomes8 @ gmail.com), tailor the tour to one's
preferences (why does Koos' email-questionnaire ask clients to state
their special interests, then totally ignore it?), and just go for it.
It'd be cheaper than paying a convoy operator. Not that I'm likely to
ever do it again, but if I were this is how I'd go about it.

Will we ever see a rebuttal from Koos? It would be nice to see his
responses but presumably he's already busy with his next trip, so
won't have time.

AND.......................

A magnificent effort, Paul. You must have 'lived the journey' for the
last two weeks in the retelling! Thanks for telling it like it was (a
warning to others?).

Now for a short comment:
[/quote=] "Ilse told to-day that her Pajero will not be re-delivered
to her in Huambo as supposedly arranged and that she must go with the
driver across the country to Lubango – she is not impressed and leaves
most unhappy."[/quote]

Yes, I was most unhappy because if you can't trust your tour leader
whom can you trust? Anne and I were cast out from the convoy, not due
to a problem between Koos and me but due to one of systemic failure.
Koos’ ‘emergency rescue plan’ (which had been sent to us before we
travelled) simply did not work. Koos himself was as much a victim of
circumstance as we were, with his business partner Rico not honouring
neither a written agreement nor a verbal contract. Koos should have
been honest and told us the truth: that Rico is unreliable, that he is
dependent on him and his operator permit - Koos is unlicensed in
Angola - and that he can't afford to get Rico miffed. Instead he
strung us along with "don't worry, no problem, Rico will call back and
sort it out" all evening at Waku Kungo (we'd been drenched by the
sudden downpour - bags, tent, everything was sodden - and were
waiting, in wet clothing, till 10 p.m. for a call that never came),
then next morning at 7 a.m. "there's nothing more I can do", sending
us back to Lubango to retrieve the car ourselves and make our way to
the border, past corrupt police roadblocks and difficult border
officials. Why had we signed up with Koos? To precisely avoid this!

Thing is, it could have been you, it could have been anyone having my
misfortune. Both Koos and Kobus had near-misses in Lobito (their cars
still bear the paint-scars), Flekkie in Lubango on his way back (you
mentioned something about an incident with a taxi) ... and, having
learnt from my experience, they didn’t bother with police or insurance
and just drove on.
On the day of the irresponsibly long drive of 12 hrs (the one day I
was REALLY happy to have a driver), ANYthing could have happened! Not
only due to careless/desperate overtaking attempts, but also due to
fatigue of drivers. It was sheer dumb luck that nothing did.
Why are we made to take out extra car insurance for Angola? It’s
totally useless, as not even a police accident report can be had, much
less another party’s insurance papers, without which no claim can be
placed. In your reports you mention several times how crazy the
driving is and how frequent the accidents. People really ought to be
better informed, and Koos' 'emergency rescue plan' revised.

Yes, we were told that the trip is no 'walk in the park' and no
holiday outing ... but WHEN are we told? AFTER we've paid the deposit
of half the trip's fee! WHEN are we told of the real dangers and that
"participation on this tour might result in injury or loss of life ...
that Africa Bushcraft and its staff cannot be held responsible for any
such injuries or loss of life"? When we see the indemnity form on the
eve of crossing the border into Angola! Much too late to
reconsider ...

Hope no one objects to me copying and pasting !

[Merwe Erasmus]

Thanks. I did apply for membership to LCCSA, but received no reply. I can
only quote Groucho Marx : "I don�t care to belong to any club that will have
me as a member".

Merwe

----- Original Message -----
From: "lostshepard" <losts...@mweb.co.za>
To: "overland-forum" <overlan...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 5:12 PM
Subject: [Overland] Re: Angola Trip Report

[Jeff Morris]

Thanks!

[lostshepard]

Merwe that is most strange - may I suggest that you re-apply & state
the afore-going in your application - like Overland.co.za; Lccsa has a
great bunch of members, many of us are on both and we all learn from &
help each other, which is what these forums are all about. We all
share a passion regardless of what vehicle we drive.

On Oct 18, 5:26 pm, Jeff Morris <jeffwmor...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks!

[Merwe Erasmus]

I forgot the smiley.

Does anyone have any experience with an outfit "Live the Journey", they also
do self drive guided tours to Angola.

Merwe

[Struan Reid]

I know its a cut and paste but what were people expecting? This is Africa,
one just has to go to Mozambique, Namibia or Botswana to find out that the
rest of Africa is DANGEROUS and kak can happen anywhere. Africans drive
badly - South African's included.

Do your homework and prepare yourself prior to departure no matter who the
tour operator is. Ignorance is no excuse.

[lostshepard]

SA 4x4 did a glamour report on Koos (last Oct/Nov)- I asked for
references before & was of course given the good ones but the one
bloke did say that the convoys were KUK and he never wanted to do
convoys ever again in his life and he was an experienced 4x4er

By the way Wheels did a glamour report on Angola with Marius Van Zyl
this month - most of which is stretching the imagination somewhat and
Marius IS a great guide; we did Koakoland with him & Van Zyls last
year - he was guiding for Live the Journey - who to answer the
question posed, are a reputable company, we also did Faces Of the
Namib with them too with Kosie as guide and that was also great.

I think to answer your question what were people expecting: the
answer is really simple, a proper tour guide with lots of interesting
info, with proper radio coms, and not disastrous campsites. At R 9500
a pop each I don't think that that is too much to ask for.The rest we
take in our stride.

Yes our drivers are bad but go see Angola - they have to be amongst
the worlds worst -(

[SteveP]

Interesting point - "bad driving" is relative to what you normally
experience.

I've lived in big Canadian cities, where you see the odd idiot -
usually in the winter on snow. Then I lived in the Maine (USA) woods,
where you hardly saw anyone - then moved straight to central London,
where there are lots of idiots but mostly at 20 kph or less. SA was
certainly an eye-opener! When I was a kid, it was legal to ride in the
back of an open truck in Canada. Now you can't even carry your dog
that way (must be harnessed). This law would destroy the SA economy
overnight :-) In France last week, I was amused by how many drivers
would sit one metre off the Landy's tail while I drove the speed
limit, yet pass up easy opportunities to overtake. I saw one nasty
shunt on a slip road with four cars one into the other from behind.
They will learn eventually, I suppose. When I rode my bike to Russia,
it was a surprise to see many cars using the pavements as shortcuts,
but I never saw an accident. I guess my point is - like everything
else in life, the danger is relative and an assumed risk you either
have to deal with or not go (or not get out of bed).

Reading this excellent Angola report, I wonder how to best mitigate
those risks? Smaller groups would obviously help, with less stress and
less need for the crazies to force their way in when overtaking. Not
being in a hurry is always nice if you can arrange it. A Portuguese
speaker recommended. A reliable in-country agent (seems like there are
many South Africans now living in Angola? Connections?) How best to
deal with the border and checkpoints? All I can say is if it is this
tough for South Africans with their simplified visa rules, it will be
some time before I include Angola in my travels. - SteveP

[lostshepard]

Steve - for me when on my own its a case of "When in Rome do as the
Romans do" its the best way to survive, Remember that in Cape Town a
Red Robot is a suggestion to stop :-)

[Paul Oxley]

The problem lies in the ratio of odd idiots to the rest of us. Down here
we have more odd idiots than normal drivers.

Regards

Paul Oxley

AfricanAdrenalin.com

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> Subject: [Overland] Re: Angola Trip Report

[Geoff Hill]

Paul O sed

The problem lies in the ratio of odd idiots to the rest of us. Down here
we have more odd idiots than normal drivers.

Yip and we have quite a few unodd idiots as well;-)

Geoff

[martin bremer]

Paul

Your comment, " The hardships of the trip were all expected what was
not expected from an ex-military man was poor
planning, poor radio communications, bad campsites" refers.

I was on the receiving end of the above for 100 days in '87, in the
same country. Different circumstances but same management :)

Maybe one should expect exactly what happened.....

I think one would be better off traveling through a foreign country
with locals showing you around and sharing their experiences and
history.

Why go there if you do not get out and "feel" the country?

My 2c.

Martin

[lostshepard]

I like your sense of humour Martin - fact is that we did have quite a
lot of interplay with the locals notwithstanding the language barriers
and found them very friendly and approachable and some of the
youngsters have a bash at very poor English. Lin spent a lot of time
with the kids looking at their schoolbooks and the level of their
English tuition is very basic indeed. For ourselves having no
Portuguese at all it was never an option for us to do this on our own.

[Hennie Rautenbach]

At the risk of dragging this out unnecessary I have to state that I disagree with this completely.  So this criteria will prevent you from ever attempting a self-drive in, lets say, Italy ? We went without a guide and without a translator. In every eventuality where language caused a dead-lock we simply asked for them to find us an English speaking person, who showed up promptly (in any age) and assisted us fine (sometimes with amusing consequences). Not having a translator would be the very last thing that would stop me from going there again and all on my own. We must be careful not to create the wrong impression here. It is a wonderful destination with risks, but not unlike Zambia or Mozambique which is open to the independent traveller. In my opinion a lot of the difficulty and danger got over-stated. The fact remains that Koos made the trip miserable. Go without Koos, on your own, and have a jol. Most importantly, do it at a leisurely pace.

[Hennie Rautenbach]

And yes, Lastly (promise) :-) I am sure everyone here is now of the firm opinion that a convoy is a curse. I am almost of that opinion too after I read the report. Rule 1 of any Overlanding trip. Choose your travelling companions VERY CAREFULLY. This is unfortunately an essential luxury that you DON'T have when you go on a guided tour. Wan't to see a real catastrophe ? Go on any trip with Francois Rossouw. With good mates, who travel well together, the size of the convoy is 'never' an issue. BTDT many times :-) In fact in my book it is a highlight of the trip, the interaction between the different characters on the trip. You get gatvol of 1 travel companion much quicker than 10. 

Hennie (chooses his travel buddies very carefully)

[Peter Tiedt]

Hennie

 

I can only echo those comments.  We were 4 vehicles (11 pax) on a three+ week Kaokoland expedition, and we had all got together several times before leaving.  In the final analysis, if you can’t get on with each other before leaving, you sure as hell won’t get on after departure.

 

And 4 vehicles is max for any convoy.

 

Also my last word (was also my first). J

 

PT (also chooses companions very carefully)

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[lostshepard]

Hello Peter :-) .....Hennie, dragging ball and chain.............yes
and no Hennie, going to Europe and into what passes for civilization
is one thing but for me at least and many other people I know, Angola
is like the wild west.English speaking African countries are always so
much easier. I think we all agree about the convoy problem, plus we
certainly all agree about choosing a company very carefully indeed,
but sometimes its not possible to go with friends for many reasons and
you are the only one with time spare on your hands. First prize would
always be to go with friends or at least people you have met and
reckon you can get on with and this is an important point is is REALLY
nice to be amongst 6 to 10 other people to share things with but sadly
this is just not always possible.

Out of all the guided trips that we have done I can say with all
honesty that there have only been about 9 people in total (over a five
year period) that had been a complete pain in the arse. This happens
but one learns to live with it.

On the other hand we have met 5 couples from all over the world that
we have become really firm friends with and we now try to meet up on
whatever trip is going down.Again not always possible - work gets in
the way for many !

Experienced 4x4 people are very different and usually preferable to
newbies going on their first or second organised company tour. But
then again we all have to start somewhere.

cheers paul

On Oct 19, 3:14 pm, Peter Tiedt <Tie...@cimpor.com> wrote:
> Hennie
>
> I can only echo those comments.  We were 4 vehicles (11 pax) on a three+ week Kaokoland expedition, and we had all got together several times before leaving.  In the final analysis, if you can't get on with each other before leaving, you sure as hell won't get on after departure.
>
> And 4 vehicles is max for any convoy.
>

> Also my last word (was also my first). :)

>
> PT (also chooses companions very carefully)
>
> From: overlan...@googlegroups.com [mailto:overlan...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Hennie Rautenbach
> Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 15:03
> To: overlan...@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Overland] Re: Angola Trip Report
>
> And yes, Lastly (promise) :-) I am sure everyone here is now of the firm opinion that a convoy is a curse. I am almost of that opinion too after I read the report. Rule 1 of any Overlanding trip. Choose your travelling companions VERY CAREFULLY. This is unfortunately an essential luxury that you DON'T have when you go on a guided tour. Wan't to see a real catastrophe ? Go on any trip with Francois Rossouw. With good mates, who travel well together, the size of the convoy is 'never' an issue. BTDT many times :-) In fact in my book it is a highlight of the trip, the interaction between the different characters on the trip. You get gatvol of 1 travel companion much quicker than 10.
>
> Hennie (chooses his travel buddies very carefully)

> On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 2:53 PM, Hennie Rautenbach <hennie.rautenb...@gmail.com<mailto:hennie.rautenb...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> At the risk of dragging this out unnecessary I have to state that I disagree with this completely.  So this criteria will prevent you from ever attempting a self-drive in, lets say, Italy ? We went without a guide and without a translator. In every eventuality where language caused a dead-lock we simply asked for them to find us an English speaking person, who showed up promptly (in any age) and assisted us fine (sometimes with amusing consequences). Not having a translator would be the very last thing that would stop me from going there again and all on my own. We must be careful not to create the wrong impression here. It is a wonderful destination with risks, but not unlike Zambia or Mozambique which is open to the independent traveller. In my opinion a lot of the difficulty and danger got over-stated. The fact remains that Koos made the trip miserable. Go without Koos, on your own, and have a jol. Most importantly, do it at a leisurely pace.
>

[SteveP]

And, OTO, O, H, if you get p'ed off at people you don't know well, you
never have to see them again. My "interesting" month in Moz was
blighted when my good friend announced I would have to tow a trailer
for him so he could take his rubber duck and motor. I met up with him
in JHB (having driven up from CT) and my first knowledge of the
trailer was the morning we left =:-0

Oh what fun we had. Dragging his trailer down the tracks of northern
Moz. Bearings fell apart on the trailer. Spares he brought the wrong
size. Boat used exactly once. He didn't realise he needed a permit,
got arrested and spent the day with the local marine cops. Paid 1M
Mets to get it back... I still had to haul it back to JHB. Didn't
speak to him for six months after that! - SteveP

[Hennie Rautenbach]

Eish ! :-(

[Jeff Morris]

Shame!

[Francois Visagie]

Hi Paul & Lin,

 

THOROUGHLY enjoyed reading your trip report, thanks very much for your trouble!

 

Kind regards,

Francois

---

From: overlan...@googlegroups.com [mailto:overlan...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Hennie Rautenbach

Sent: 17 October 2010 12:51
To: overlan...@googlegroups.com
Cc: kampvuur
Subject: [Overland] Angola Trip Report

Good reading for a misrable day :-)

Paul & lin Fisher wrote up their recent experience when they tagged along with Koos Moorcroft on one of his Cunene to Congo tours. Make for interesting reading.

http://www.overland.co.za/feedback/Angola_Trip_Reports.html

Best regards

Hennie

[Francois Visagie]

PS. Paul, were you in the Strand/Gordon's Bay area recently? I seem to recall a CK Land Cruiser with roof rack ladder but less the rooftop tent, though.

 

(I was the sweaty bloke on the mountain bike ;-))

[lostshepard]

Don't think so Francois but life before Angola has been a bit blotted
out and seeing how long Cris Ingram seems to keep my Cruiser between
trips I tend to be more in the Pajero - on the other hand maybe
Cris...............

Quote" (I was the sweaty bloke on the mountain bike ;-)) - I normally
run them over so it couldn't have been me :-) :-) (sorry!)
>

On Oct 20, 2:46 pm, "Francois Visagie" <fvisa...@za.spescom.com>
wrote:

[Hennie Rautenbach]

Paul when did you upgrade from the Pajero ?

Regards

Hennie

[lostshepard]

Hennie having bought the Pajero SWB in 2005, new, we realised that
whilst a great vehicle - I now use it as my everyday car - it was
simply too small for the longhaul trips that we are now undertaking.
So in early 2008 I bought a 2007 100VX TD with 18K on the clock, the
previous owner had a new 200 on order. Cris Ingram from R & D Offroad
in Brakenfell has fitted this out for me. We only use the Cruiser for
trips and are currently trying to maintain our target of four trips a
year !!! What a joy having grown up children.:-) cheers paul

On Oct 20, 5:07 pm, Hennie Rautenbach <hennie.rautenb...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Paul when did you upgrade from the Pajero ?
>
> Regards
>
> Hennie
>

> > >         overland-foru...@googlegroups.com<overland-forum%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>

>
> > >         4x4's and other stuff for sale:
> > >        http://www.overland.co.za/phpBB3/viewforum.php?f=2
>
> > --
> > DO YOU WANT TO UNSUBSCRIBE ? Then send a blank email to:

> > overland-foru...@googlegroups.com<overland-forum%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>

[Hennie Rautenbach]

Fantastic - enjoy it Paul. Getting there slowly. Eldest son had his last day of school today.

[d...@roamingyak.org]

Thanks Hennie, I will be heading up again next month so all interesting gristle to the mill...

[Hennie Rautenbach]

Next exciting contribution on its way.

[Hennie Rautenbach]

Ilse Mwanza has just contributed here side of the story :-)

http://www.overland.co.za/travel_reports/Ilse_Mwanza/Angola_2010.pdf (1.7Mb)

Kind regards

Hennie

[lostshepard]

Well I think that it would be an English understatement to say that
Ilse did not have a good trip ! However I think that some balance
ought to be struck IRO some of the statements made in this report.

Ilse had found me on the web prior to this trip and we had been
exchanging emails for about three months prior to departure date. I
was well aware of the hassles that she and her friends were
experiencing IRO visas and Koos' office. To the extent that I was sure
that there was an understanding problem between Ilse and Isobelle
Moorcroft. I pointed out that letters can create barriers and that
maybe she should just pick up the phone and have a good old heart to
heart. It would appear that this never happened.

I explained to Ilse what going in a convoy and group meant. It is
obvious that Ilse is not a greenhorn and that she has travelled
extensively but not in a format such as this.

I also said that if, as in all probability it would be, that the group
was mostly Afrikaans, then naturally they would speak in Afrikaans and
that whilst I would do my best to "Soek die Engelse Stastie" she would
have to live with it. Given this fact I think that Ilse and her friend
just didn't fit the profile from the very beginning plus they are not
camp fire braai type people - eating bread sandwiches most of the time
from what I can gather. They appeared to have no or little cooking
equipment at all.

In groups it is understandable that the majority language will prevail
- sometimes Afrikaans people will make a real effort to speak English
but for many they are just not comfortable to speak in English
especially if as say, farmers, they have very little cause to do so on
a day to day basis. As I never tire of pointing out to Afrikaans folk
when they apologise for their poor English - it is always way better
than most English speaking peoples Afrikaans and their effort is
always appreciated. This however seemed to be the basis of a huge
problem for Ilse - a fact that I think was quickly picked up by the
rest of the group. Ilse might do well to remember what a crowd of
Germans is like !!!!

With regard to the exchange money and rates joke in Namibe - I think
that Ilse is in all probability correct. I hate to tell her that I got
48500 Kwanzas to $500 equaling a rate of 97 - I did wonder about that
as I was only expecting 45000 as per what Koos said - maybe the Guy
thought that I looked like trouble as I just kept my hand out !!!

Ilse will go to her grave saying and thinking that the water-tanker
danced across the road and into her. She hit the water-tanker under
the rear right hand side of the truck. Two people in our convoy said
that they had seen the accident and that it seemed obvious that Ilse
had not looked or looked the wrong way and thus driven into the
tanker.

What I will say however is this: Ilse had no radio - Koos's fault -
except that he had given Ilse one but she had given it back saying
that as everything was in Afrikaans it was no use to her and that it
would be of more use to someone else. This is simply not true - Koos
addressed me as tail end Charlie in English everytime we spoke. Ilse
says that Koos told her to "Stick to his tail" - Lin says that she was
really surprised to see Koos charge across the road when traffic was
coming up it - I think that Ilse just carried on blindly -
understandable in the circumstances - but in the final analysis it is
her responsibility to take charge of herself and vehicle. So what we
have here goes back to my remarks in my report that Koos' convoy
skills left a great deal to be desired and the radio fiasco was just
that.

Yes we did give a tip to Manuel but $100 was a bit over the top I
think !!

At the evening of the certificate presentation Ilse says "We went to
bed and left the others to their braais and Afrikaans socializing" -
this is grossly unfair - As an English speaker I stayed - OK so I can
understand most of what is said but I reply in English and needle the
group with um... what does that mean in English please ? - which gets
the conversation into English for a while !!! You only get out what
you put in and if you shove off and separate yourself you only have
yourself to blame and again this is noted by the group at large.

On the subject of getting her friends money back there are two things
that Ilse is missing. Firstly Isobelle can't "Just" transfer money
into a bank account in Zambia - there are official forms that need to
be filled in and this is why Isobelle sent them to her to do such - it
is not Isobelle who wants to know why ? It is there on the bank form
"Reason for transfer" and secondly, and this I'm afraid to say is
rather obvious; Isobelle says that she is away from Oct 15th to 31st -
it is the 22nd to-day Ilse - Isobelle is away ! - I am quite sure that
you will get this money back. With regards to not hearing further from
anyone in Angola, you have paid them - it might be bad manners but it
is a closed issue for them. Make no mistake if they had not received
the money you most definitely would have heard from them.!!!

I feel very sorry that Ilse had such a bad time of it, but in truth I
just don't think that this was her type of thing and was maybe ill
conceived from the very beginning. In the final analysis she should be
grateful that things did turn out alright in the end, albeit rather
expensively for her.

I'm not going to go any further than this. My report reflects how the
trip was for us. Ilse's report reflects how it was for her and Anne
(presumably).

C 'est tout.

On Oct 22, 11:22 am, Hennie Rautenbach <hennie.rautenb...@gmail.com>
wrote:

[Rob Harvey]

Thanks for your side of the story Ilse. In the interests of your own
health I think you need to write off your experience to school fees.

On Oct 22, 11:22 am, Hennie Rautenbach <hennie.rautenb...@gmail.com>
wrote: