Is ComPac 16 a good boat?
canoewho
I am thinking of buying a ComPac 16 for some day sailing and overnight
camping. I am a new to sailing, having done a lot of canoeing previously.
I have looked at other boats in the local market but in that price range
($3K) you seem to get almost derelict boats. One 19 ft CL Sandpiper I
looked at was made out of chop fibregalss with an eggshell thin hull. In
comparison the Compac seems strong and really seaworthy, a much better boat
abeit smaller.
I plan to sail around with my wife and 3 little kids, primarily day sailing
and overnight camping on shore, if we decide to sleep on board I would have
no problem doing it under a boom tent while the kids sleep in the cabin.
Any comments or experiences with this little boat from people out there.
Pete Hodgins
> Hi,
>
> I am thinking of buying a ComPac 16 for some day sailing and overnight
> camping. I am a new to sailing, having done a lot of canoeing previously.
> I have looked at other boats in the local market but in that price range
> ($3K) you seem to get almost derelict boats. One 19 ft CL Sandpiper I
> looked at was made out of chop fibregalss with an eggshell thin hull. In
> comparison the Compac seems strong and really seaworthy, a much better boat
> abeit smaller.
Don't know the ComPac, but if "Wanderlust", our former thirdhand,
18.5-foot CL-built Sandpiper 565, sail #399, was any example, "eggshell
thin" the hull (but see below) ain't!
I don't mean to say she was without flaws, but that wasn't one of
them. Unless you've seen a Sandpiper being built, or drilled a hole
through one and measured its thickness, then, I feel you should be careful
in making allegations of poor hull construction.
However, the word `hull' can be interpreted in different ways. A
builder of fibreglass boats is likely to use two principal moulds to form
(1) the hull, on one hand, and (2) the deck, cabin roof (if any) & cock-
pit, on the other. Then come the additional moulds for cabin liners, buoy-
ancy tanks, hatch covers, etc. ... all of which go into what the consumer
may call "the hull". Different standards apply to different components.
Perhaps you're thinking of the mainhatch cover, then? Ours felt
flimsy underfoot, that's true enough. I also found the bridge structure,
intended to support the mast tabernacle stepped on the cabin roof, insuf-
ficiently rigid - but capable of being easily supplemented by a post or
strut carrying excess mast loads down to the keel.
Despite a few flimsy components, our boat was much heavier than
advertised in the brochure (some paper I've learned never to trust). This
was, in fact, one of the reasons we got rid of her, for she was too much
for our car to tow.
That Sandpiper served on Lac Deschenes for something like 20
seasons, I think, before we donated her for a considerable tax writeoff
to an charitable organization in Quebec. That organization acquires used
boats for refurbishing, prior to their resale for an additional period of
use. The naval architect who examined the boat must have thought quite
well of her, given the magnitude of the receipt he signed.
I too wanted a smaller boat, but for overland mobility above all.
By then, though, our kids had grown up and left home.
If your family takes well to sleeping together in a compact tent,
it should be able to weekend together in a compact boat. If not, then not.
Pete Hodgins Sr.
Michael McGoldrick
>
> Hi,
>
> I am thinking of buying a ComPac 16 for some day sailing and overnight
> camping. I am a new to sailing, having done a lot of canoeing previously.
> I have looked at other boats in the local market but in that price range
> ($3K) you seem to get almost derelict boats. One 19 ft CL Sandpiper I
> looked at was made out of chop fibregalss with an eggshell thin hull. In
> comparison the Compac seems strong and really seaworthy, a much better boat
> abeit smaller.
>
> and overnight camping on shore, if we decide to sleep on board I would have
> no problem doing it under a boom tent while the kids sleep in the cabin.
>
> Any comments or experiences with this little boat from people out there.
I don't have any direct experience with the ComPac 16, but I believe
this boat has a long shallow draft keel (with no drop keel of any
kind). The information I have indicates that this boat has a total
draft of only 18 inches. Obviously, this boat will not point very
well (but this is also true of many boats with swing keel
arrangements as well).
Moreover, with a total displacement of 1000 pounds, the ComPac 16
can't have that much ballast. This might mean it could capsize a
little easier than other boats. But here again, the same is true
of many boats with swing keels, unless they have ballasted keels
that can be securely locked in the down position.
I would disagree with your assessment of the Sandpiper 565. I
used to own one of these boats. I doubt very much that its hull
is made of only chopped fibreglass strands. It should also be
noted that almost all fiberglass boats have some chopped strand
to help ensure good adhesion between the various layers of woven
roving and fiberglass cloth that go into the hull. I can also tell
you that the fiberglass hull of the Sandpiper appeared to be much
thicker than that of the MacGregor 25 (and other light weight
trailerable boats).
I once spoke to the foreman at the CL factory about how they
built the hull in the area which supports the drop keel on the
Sandpiper. I can't recall the details, but it was all overkill.
However, I didn't ask him how they built the rest of the hull.
Since you were considering a Sandpiper (which usually comes
on the market in the $4500 to $5500 range), and seeing that
your family includes three children, you may consider a
larger boat. It may take a little looking around, but I think
it should still be possible to buy an older Halman 20, or
even a CS22, for somewhere around $5000.
Good luck.
--
Michael McGoldrick,
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada, e-mail: mcs...@magma.ca
ORSP: http://www.magma.ca/~mcsail/ott/ottawa.htm
canoewho
> I don't have any direct experience with the ComPac 16, but I believe
> this boat has a long shallow draft keel (with no drop keel of any
> kind). The information I have indicates that this boat has a total
> draft of only 18 inches. Obviously, this boat will not point very
> well (but this is also true of many boats with swing keel
> arrangements as well).
centerboard to fix this.
> Moreover, with a total displacement of 1000 pounds, the ComPac 16
> can't have that much ballast. This might mean it could capsize a
> little easier than other boats. But here again, the same is true
> of many boats with swing keels, unless they have ballasted keels
> that can be securely locked in the down position.
I believe it has 450 lbs of lead in the shoal keel.
> I would disagree with your assessment of the Sandpiper 565. I
> used to own one of these boats. I doubt very much that its hull
> is made of only chopped fibreglass strands. It should also be
> noted that almost all fiberglass boats have some chopped strand
> to help ensure good adhesion between the various layers of woven
> roving and fiberglass cloth that go into the hull. I can also tell
> you that the fiberglass hull of the Sandpiper appeared to be much
> thicker than that of the MacGregor 25 (and other light weight
> trailerable boats).
The boat I saw might just have been in bad condition. The hull didseem
really thin. The Sandpiper weighs 1000 lbs, 100 lbs less than the Compac
and is 3 feet longer and probably twice as big a boat. It would seem to me
that this boat is too light to be out in strong winds and would be blown
around very easily.
> Since you were considering a Sandpiper (which usually comes
> on the market in the $4500 to $5500 range), and seeing that
> your family includes three children, you may consider a
> larger boat. It may take a little looking around, but I think
> it should still be possible to buy an older Halman 20, or
> even a CS22, for somewhere around $5000.
The thing I like best about the Compac is that it is small and can fit down
the side of my house. It can also be pulled behind my Honda (so they say).
I like the idea of the Compac because I can sail it when I want and put it
away when I don't. I don't have to pay slip fees or feel obligated to go
sailing just because I have to get my moneys worth. If I get a bigger boat
I have to pay for a slip, winter storage etc. I then end up with the boat
owning me instead of vice versa.
So far, it sounds like a small boat for most folks is in the 19-22 foot
range. I guess I'll have to think about this one since I may never be able
to sell it in the future if I want out.
Pete Hodgins
> The boat I saw might just have been in bad condition. The hull didseem
> really thin. The Sandpiper weighs 1000 lbs, 100 lbs less than the Compac
> and is 3 feet longer and probably twice as big a boat. It would seem to me
> that this boat is too light to be out in strong winds and would be blown
> around very easily.
Absolutely wrong! We had our boat actually weighed, and it came
out above 2,000 lb., although I forget exact details.
The crazy thing was, the brochure listed a "displacement" of 1200
lb., and since displacement refers to the fully assembled vessel carrying
her full nominal crew as well as full boat & crew gear, plus half of all
consumables, that would seem to suggest the crew, et al., have NEGATIVE
weights. This is yet another unfactual statement that makes me habitually
distrust pretty well all brochure "data".
Get both boats weighed and obtain correct data, then, if you're
going to argue on that basis! Since you're writing on ott.rec.sailing, you
should be within ready range of the big weighscale for trucks operated by
the Regional Government at the Trail Road waste-disposal landfill site.
Michael is absolutely right about the use of chopped-strand mat in
the layup of good fibreglass construction. Without it, layers of (usually)
woven rovings would tend to delaminate, as well as encapsulating bubbles.
The cheapo construction you may be thinking of is made with a
chopper gun which chops up (unwoven) rovings and sprays the loose fibres
onto/into the mould, together with a spray of catalyzed resin. Instead
of a layup, it creates a quick, lowcost, comparatively flimsy SPRAYUP in
which the long, continuous fibres of woven rovings (or possibly cloth) are
missing unless the two methods are somehow combined.
One reason Canadian-built boats to have had a high reputation on
the U.S. market was that word got around that U.S. builders were making
greater use of chopper guns. I see little objection to guns in forming
non-structural liners, but the temptation is probably there to use them as
much as possible ... and some builders likely do cave in to it. However, I
doubt you can tell one from the other without test-drilling.
In any case, our Sandpiper's hull moulding was strong - and heavy,
too. Some eggshell!
Pete Hodgins Sr.
Michael McGoldrick
[...]
>
> The boat I saw might just have been in bad condition. The hull didseem
> really thin. The Sandpiper weighs 1000 lbs, 100 lbs less than the Compac
> and is 3 feet longer and probably twice as big a boat. It would seem to me
> that this boat is too light to be out in strong winds and would be blown
> around very easily.
>
> > on the market in the $4500 to $5500 range), and seeing that
> > your family includes three children, you may consider a
> > larger boat. It may take a little looking around, but I think
> > it should still be possible to buy an older Halman 20, or
> > even a CS22, for somewhere around $5000.
>
> The thing I like best about the Compac is that it is small and can fit down
> the side of my house. It can also be pulled behind my Honda (so they say).
> I like the idea of the Compac because I can sail it when I want and put it
> away when I don't. I don't have to pay slip fees or feel obligated to go
> sailing just because I have to get my moneys worth. If I get a bigger boat
> I have to pay for a slip, winter storage etc. I then end up with the boat
> owning me instead of vice versa.
>
As Pete indicated, the published displacement of the
Sandpiper is 1200 lbs. It's possible that you came
across a poorly built boat, but I'm confident in saying
that Sandpipers are well built boats (better than average
in the under 20 foot market).
But if your are looking for a small boat that can be easily
dry sailed and pulled around with a Honda, I think weight
may be more of a consideration than overall size. In this
regard, maybe you would want to consider the Siren 17.
The Siren 17 weighs only 750 pounds, and is almost
as well built as the ComPac 16 or the Sandpiper. Whatever
the case, in my opinion, these are very seaworthy boats
(for their size). I have seen Sirens handle surprisingly
rough conditions on the Ottawa and St-Lawrence
Rivers.
It is also possible to find Siren 17's that are equipped
with factory made boom tents.
You can find a web page (with Bulletin Board) about the
Siren 17 at the following URL:
http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Meadows/3667/index.html
You may also be interested in taking a look at "Chip's
Pocket Cruiser Sailboat Page". See:
http://members.aol.com/ChipW2/PCruiser/
--
Kent Hunter-Duvar
have a book called "Frugal Yachting" by Larry Brown. I think I got it at
Chapters but not sure. But it would be worth your $30 to purchase. It discusses
cruising with your family in small boats, in great detail, along with
desrcriptions of many trailerable boats and their good and bad points.
Kent
On Sat, 08 Jan 2000 03:26:14 GMT, "canoewho" <vire...@iprimus.ca> wrote:
>Hi,
>
>I am thinking of buying a ComPac 16 for some day sailing and overnight
>camping. I am a new to sailing, having done a lot of canoeing previously.
>I have looked at other boats in the local market but in that price range
>($3K) you seem to get almost derelict boats. One 19 ft CL Sandpiper I
>looked at was made out of chop fibregalss with an eggshell thin hull. In
>comparison the Compac seems strong and really seaworthy, a much better boat
>abeit smaller.
>
>I plan to sail around with my wife and 3 little kids, primarily day sailing
>and overnight camping on shore, if we decide to sleep on board I would have
>no problem doing it under a boom tent while the kids sleep in the cabin.
>
>Any comments or experiences with this little boat from people out there.
>
The opinions expressed are my own and you can't have them (you can borrow them however)
mailto:k...@globallaser.ondotca
Anti Spam measure in effect
Please replace the "dot" with a "."
William R. Watt
> According to my reading, a "West Wight Potter" would be worth considering. I
> have a book called "Frugal Yachting" by Larry Brown. I think I got it at
> Chapters but not sure. But it would be worth your $30 to purchase. It discusses
> cruising with your family in small boats, in great detail, along with
> desrcriptions of many trailerable boats and their good and bad points.
>
sounds interesting. I looked in the Nepean library online index but don't
see it listed there.
If I had a family of 4 I'd be inclined to buy a couple of canoes instead
of small sailboat. I've seen Sirens and think them small for a family of
4. Shallow cockpit small to sleep in. Adults would sleep inside and kids
outside. And the kids will grow up pretty fast. I think they'd be cramped
in a Siren and soon grow out of it like they grow out of clothes. An open
sailboat would offer more room but no weather protection, as would canoes.
A canoe has to be paddled which can be tiresome. When I go canoeing I start
upstream and if possible upwind so its all easy paddling with wind and
current comming home.
Wood is lighter than fibreglass. I had a 21ft mahogony stripper about 1300
lb. It was old but sound. Paid $3500 and spruced it up. Sailed well. I
could stretch out in the cockpit. Deck room for spare crew. Dont' forget
when a small sailboat is heeled over beating to windward nobody sits on
the leeward side. Pretty sure you'll want a boat whole family can sit to
windward.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
National Capital FreeNet www.ncf.ca Ottawa's free community network
Pete Hodgins
> Kent Hunter-Duvar (k...@globallaser.ondotca) writes:
>> According to my reading, a "West Wight Potter" would be worth considering. I
>> have a book called "Frugal Yachting" by Larry Brown. I think I got it at
>> Chapters but not sure. But it would be worth your $30 to purchase. It discusses
>> cruising with your family in small boats, in great detail, along with
>> desrcriptions of many trailerable boats and their good and bad points.
>>
>
> sounds interesting. I looked in the Nepean library online index but don't
> see it listed there.
Can't believe the system has just gobbled at least an hour's work
I've spent describing and transcribing data on the West Wight Potter! I'll
be far briefer, this time.
This is a 14' LOA cabin micro-mini-cruiser whose info. in the SAIL
1973 annual sailboat directory (page 144) may be more or less trusted on
most points. There are two berths belowdecks and, with a 6'6" cockpit, the
rating is for 2+2 aboard. One problem is going to be finding one on the
market. I think this model could be about ideal for a microcruising
couple, but you'd have to be resistant to claustrophobia before taking
three kids, too. Also, I doubt you'd want to take this vessel offshore,
despite the manufacturer's claims.
SAIL may have a website giving the lost details I'd copied out.
> If I had a family of 4 I'd be inclined to buy a couple of canoes instead
> of small sailboat. I've seen Sirens and think them small for a family of
> 4. Shallow cockpit small to sleep in. Adults would sleep inside and kids
> outside. And the kids will grow up pretty fast. I think they'd be cramped
> in a Siren and soon grow out of it like they grow out of clothes. An open
> sailboat would offer more room but no weather protection, as would canoes.
> A canoe has to be paddled which can be tiresome. When I go canoeing I start
> upstream and if possible upwind so its all easy paddling with wind and
> current comming home.
I consider ability to return to your starting point an essential
test of a reasonably sound sailboat for a given environment.
Also to be considered is the empty-boat sydrome, in which the kids
grow up and leave home, and one's spouse may say "Enough!" as well.
As to substituting canoes - well and good if you love that quite
different activity. If you want to sail, though, then you want to sail!
> Wood is lighter than fibreglass. I had a 21ft mahogony stripper about 1300
> lb. It was old but sound. Paid $3500 and spruced it up. Sailed well. I
> could stretch out in the cockpit. Deck room for spare crew. Dont' forget
> when a small sailboat is heeled over beating to windward nobody sits on
> the leeward side. Pretty sure you'll want a boat whole family can sit to
> windward.
Depends on wind strength, and also on boat size & weight. In our
cartop sloop, I often have people sit to leeward in light airs, for
balance. Having everyone on the windward side could capsize her in that
direction.
Bigger (and especially beamier & heavier) boats are progressively
less sensitive to crew positioning, though.
Pete
Kent Hunter-Duvar
To the original poster. Where are you planning on sailing. Do you have to tow ow
would/could you leave in the water. I sail a Paceship P23 currently (or at least
when the lakes thaw again =|:-). Over the years I have owned an 18 foot
daysailer (about 14 feet at the waterline) with a small cabin, but I never even
tried to overnight in it, a couple of sailing dinghies and sailboards. I have
also sailed on other peoples larger (Douglas 32, Bayfield 32, Chrysler (28?),
Tanzer 22, 34 foot Trimaran, builder unknown, and several other in this size
range) vessels and have found that with kids along, bigger is better. Generally
the smaller the kids the more they want to move around.
So personally I would recommend the biggest you can afford/store/tow. Also if
going for more than an hour a head becomes VERY important.
Kent
On 9 Jan 2000 20:22:04 GMT, aw...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Pete Hodgins) wrote:
>William R. Watt (ag...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA) writes:
>> Kent Hunter-Duvar (k...@globallaser.ondotca) writes:
>>> According to my reading, a "West Wight Potter" would be worth considering. I
>
>> If I had a family of 4 I'd be inclined to buy a couple of canoes instead
>> of small sailboat. I've seen Sirens and think them small for a family of
> As to substituting canoes - well and good if you love that quite
>different activity. If you want to sail, though, then you want to sail!
>
The opinions expressed are my own and you can't have them (you can borrow them however)
canoewho
making a decision.
I bought the ComPac 16 today.
I am new to sailing and decided I don't want to get into the costs of a
marina slip off the bat. My car is an Accord 2.0 L which can tow up to 2000
lbs. I don't want to have to buy a new car just to tow my new used boat.
What I decided I wanted was...
- no hassle trailering. Obviously the smaller the boat the better.
- highest quality
- wide resale market
- decent performance
- safe in storm seas
- lots of cockpit room for daysailing. Cabin should be big enough to sleep
my wife, myself, 7, 5 and 1.5 yr old in an emergency though we will probably
either boom tent it and let the kids sleep in the cabin or sleep ashore in a
tent.
- compact enough to fit in my garage.
A number of people here suggested a bigger boat. Any boat that is 19+ is
not practical for trailering and comfortably moving around ~2000 lbs+.
Ultimately this size boat is best left in the water at a marina for the
season. Since I don't know how much sailing I am going to do I just don't
want to spend the money and then have the feeling that I should be sailing
on weekends when I can't make it. In essence I want the fun without any of
the hassle.
I looked at boats like the Siren and Sandpiper. The Sandpiper I saw (as I
mentioned in an earlier post) was in poor shape so that coloured my opinion.
Other posters have since pointed out that the boat is of high quality but I
didn't get a good feeling. I looked at the Siren and read through the
website. I was turned off when the reviewer mentioned that the hull is pop
rivited to the deck and "I certainly wouldn't take it across the ocean".
Since the way the full and deck are joined together is one of the most
critical factors in sailboat construction, again I didn't get a warm
feeling.
I picked up "The Handbook of Trailer Sailing" by Robert Burgess. This is
what got my interested in the ComPac 16. This guy actually sailed this boat
to the Marquesas keys off of Key West, ocean voyaging with a 16 foot
trailerable. He raves about the boat and at times I wonder if he is a
salesman for ComPac but when I saw a used one selling in my area I realized
that much of what he said was true. I also checked out the ComPac Owners
group site at http://www2.dgsys.com/~jeffries/.
As for the previous poster who suggests a canoe, I've been there and done
that. Our family including 1 yr old did a 150 km loop through L.
Temagami-Diamond-Wakimika-Obabika this summer in our 17 foot Swift Yukon and
it was tough but rewarding. Canoeing is fantastic and it is something I'll
do forever but I find it is best done on lakes that you have to portage to
get to - no powerboats or jerks. Georgian Bay is not the best for canoeing.
Many will argue with this statement but I've paddled there in storms and
while it can be done you certainly can't explore far off islands or cover
much territory in a canoe. Sailing is a different experience and "I WANT to
sail!".
I looked at the West Wight Potter. I read Larry Brown's book a long time
ago. The Potter captured the essence of what I want. There are some
disadvantages with that boat however. It is slow, I don't think it will
take a Genny and the cockpit isn't very big. They come up on the Southern
Ontario market from time to time but sell for as much as the ComPac I
bought. The boat is proven to be very seaworthy however.
One thing that I've noticed in the responses to my post was that sailboat
folks tend to two camps, those that will sail in open, cuddy cabin or
compact (ComPac Potter) boats and those that won't in anything under 19-23
feet and don't recommend it. Coming from a canoeing/tenting background I
decided that its no problem to sacrifice cabin space for ease of
trailerability. The fact that I can set up a boom tent in the ComPacs 8 by
6 foot cockpit compensates and gives me the same space as the bigger boat.
In the day the cabin is there for the kids to use for a pee (in the porta
potty of course). It might be hard for some folks to understand but coming
from a 17 foot canoe stuffed with gear and kids, the wide beam, big cockpit
and small cabin in the ComPac 16 is almost unimaginable luxury.
If the ComPac 16 turns out to be even 1/2 the boat people say it is then I
think it'll be a blast.
Thanks again to everyone who posted their opinion on this one. I certainly
thought hard about each comment before I made my decision.
Steve
Kent Hunter-Duvar <k...@globallaser.ondotca> wrote in message
news:387946fb...@news.sentex.net...
Pete Hodgins
> Thanks to everyone for their responses. It was actually a big help in
> making a decision.
>
> I bought the ComPac 16 today.
>
> I am new to sailing and decided I don't want to get into the costs of a
> marina slip off the bat. My car is an Accord 2.0 L which can tow up to 2000
> lbs. I don't want to have to buy a new car just to tow my new used boat.
> What I decided I wanted was...
>
> - no hassle trailering. Obviously the smaller the boat the better.
> - highest quality
> - wide resale market
> - decent performance
> - safe in storm seas
(All things being relative, no doubt. Much will also depend on
YOU, though.)
> - lots of cockpit room for daysailing. Cabin should be big enough to sleep
> my wife, myself, 7, 5 and 1.5 yr old in an emergency though we will probably
> either boom tent it and let the kids sleep in the cabin or sleep ashore in a
> tent.
We never got a boom tent for our Sandpiper, but did sleep in the
cabin, using just two of the four berths, a few times. One night it poured
rain, it really pounded down, and our problem was ventilation; you don't
leave hatches open, in such conditions. When also we started growing
mildew, I started looking into dorade vents and such, but found almost
everything on the market unsuitable in a small boat; among other things,
jibsheets would have fouled many devices, given the very limited range of
possible installation locations (a problem that's likely to be even
greater in a smaller boat).
Also, I'd installed a small mushroom vent in the lazarette lid,
mostly to clear gasoline fumes, but had found it not very effective,
partly no doubt because there was no cross-ventilation. Note, though, the
principle of cutting a vent hole through a replaceable component, so that
all is not lost if you decide after trials that you've made a mistake ...
I eventually took a hard gulp and installed a solar-powered fan
ventilator on the forehatch lid. It began as a horrible yellow colour, but
eventually faded to blend in better - although it always looked like a
humungous wart on the cabin structure's otherwise smooth shape. The big
point was, though, that after we'd scrubbed out the mildew, our cabin
remained fresh & dry for years. Even at night, when the solar system of
course shuts down, it still acts as an unpowered mushroom vent, and you've
begun with a boatful of nice, clean air.
An electrical specialist would probably test the device for
polarity and voltage, and rig up a method of driving it by battery, for
nighttime use.
My hearing isn't good, but the little fan ran pretty well silently
(as others agreed), and operated at zero cost for years, including chang-
ing the air many times daily even while we were far away. As far as I
could tell, it even ran slowly on the daylight leaking through the tarps,
each day in winter!
Perhaps those experiences may be of future service in a ComPac.
> One thing that I've noticed in the responses to my post was that sailboat
> folks tend to two camps, those that will sail in open, cuddy cabin or
> compact (ComPac Potter) boats and those that won't in anything under 19-23
> feet and don't recommend it. Coming from a canoeing/tenting background I
> decided that its no problem to sacrifice cabin space for ease of
> trailerability. The fact that I can set up a boom tent in the ComPacs 8 by
> 6 foot cockpit compensates and gives me the same space as the bigger boat.
> In the day the cabin is there for the kids to use for a pee (in the porta
> potty of course). It might be hard for some folks to understand but coming
> from a 17 foot canoe stuffed with gear and kids, the wide beam, big cockpit
> and small cabin in the ComPac 16 is almost unimaginable luxury.
I know what you mean. We have a mountaineering tent furnishing
only crawling headroom, which can however sleep 3 adults, in a pinch. I've
slept in the snow in it, and used regularly to carry it, plus a light-
weight eiderdown mummy-style sleeping bag, a tiny gas stove, extra
clothes, etc. all in my rucksack. So equipped, I went on many Alpine Club
outtings, and once for a solo week in the Jotunheimen Mountains of Norway.
Later I designed & built a 13.5' schooner-bowed cutter, in which
I slept comfortably under the boom tent - at least until my anchor dragged
one night (another story, though).
I had a letter once from a guy who even felt hemmed in, while
sailing, by a foredeck, taking his idea of an open boat to the extremes
you'll see in International 14' Dinghies, canoes, and dories.
Other people, probably the big-boat crowd, meanwhile think a tent
must be a monstrous device to be pitched on a prepared platform, next to
the tailpipe of their roar (bone fide slip - I meant `road') vehicle.
The payoff in my light camping gear was freedom and complete over-
land mobility - much as it is today, with a canoe or our cartop sloop
carried on our car (1.9 litre engine). I am about 40 years older than I
was back then, in my salad days. However, my compact gear can still go
along in the canoe or the microcruising boat.
You state you're a neophyte. Welcome, then, to the world of
sailing generally, and specifically of microcruising and microcruisers!
Those last words are much like the name of a certain book you
might like to have, if a publisher could be found. *sigh*
Failing that, I guess the main points are, always be (and have
your boat) well prepared not only for what you undertake, but also for
what Ma Nature may gratuitously throw at you; note that preparation means
many things, including the personal acquisition of know-how through LES-
SONS, experience under a good skipper, etc.; never undertake more than
your own and your boat's capabilities will safely permit at any given
stage in your development, especially after you begin to sail quite inde-
pendently and without even distant supervision by potential rescuers;
learn & practise everything you can about sailing and especially micro-
cruising methods & skills; and, certainly at the outset, look for
likeminded souls with whom you may combine for mutual aid & assurance on
group cruises.
Sailing is likely to be the most complex leisure activity you've
ever tried. Sometimes, people underestimate its challenges and come
a-cropper. Loosely speaking, it is to canoeing as chess is to checkers, or
as flying is to driving - but even if you're an accomplished chess player
and pilot, sailing will be an entirely different proposition, requiring
all-new knowledge and skills! Only the stupid underestimate it ... but
alas, I've seen entirely too many such stupid folk. Don't join them!
Pete Hodgins Sr.
William R. Watt
>
> I looked at boats like the Siren and Sandpiper.
I also past over both these when buying my first sailboat in the early
80's. The D&S double enders looked rubust but I thought they made poor use
of space. That's how I ended up buying a one-off wooden boat. However, if
I had see the ComPac16 I might have gone for it.
Happy sailing.
Kent Hunter-Duvar
As a word of caution I would NEVER, sleep ashore with the kids on the boat. If
the wind should come up and the anchor drag or rope chafe and break, they would
be helpless. (Maybe I misread your statement) Either all sleep on the boat, Kids
ashore or divide the kids and the adults, so that at least one adult sleeps on
board.
I also highly recommend the purchase of a GPS (so that you know where you are),
charts of the area so you can figure out where you should be and/or want to go,
and a VHF so that if you should get in trouble you can tell someone you need
help and where you are (see GPS). Bodies of water (especially larger bodies) are
not like driving, you can't just pull over and wait for CAA and fog can be
extremely disorienting so practice iwth the GPS before you NEED it. Also please
teach your wife how to sail, start the outboard, etc. if she doesn't know how.
If something should happen it could save everyones life. It only takes something
so simple as a powerboat wake or unnoticed wave to toss you over the side as
you stand up to move and she had better know how to come back and get you.
---lecture mode off----
Kent
On 10 Jan 2000 15:58:00 GMT, aw...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Pete Hodgins) wrote:
>"canoewho" (vire...@iprimus.ca) writes:
>> Thanks to everyone for their responses. It was actually a big help in
>> making a decision.
>>
>> I bought the ComPac 16 today.
>> - lots of cockpit room for daysailing. Cabin should be big enough to sleep
>> my wife, myself, 7, 5 and 1.5 yr old in an emergency though we will probably
>> either boom tent it and let the kids sleep in the cabin or sleep ashore in a
>> tent.
>
The opinions expressed are my own and you can't have them (you can borrow them however)
Ken McKenzie
just about anything. I have owned on for several years now, this will be my
7th season I think, and have greatly enjoy the boat.
Size wise you would be surprised. If you have smaller children all four can
fit in the cabin. The clamshell design allows for sleeping leg room under
the cockpit. So what you do is go head to head, feet to the bow and stern
and things would very well. I have had myself, 6'3" and two 15 year olds
all sleeping in the cabin no problems.
Lloyd Montgomery's site
http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Meadows/3667/index.html has most of the
known information that is available, what isn't there is at
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/sirenownersclub The Yahoo site will require you
to join to post questions but there is no spam or junk mail associated with
it, I know, I'm the Founder. There are 90+ Siren owners who belong, several
from the Ottawa area, including myself, who are more than willing to answer
all your questions.
The Siren's hull and keel weight is 785 pounds, keel down draws 4'3" and
keel up is 8". As to the boom tent, these are rare and there are few
examples of these around. Some of us are working on variations of the
orginial design but they are not commercially available, unfortunately.
--
___________________________________________________
Ken McKenzie Criticism never built a house, wrote a play,
composed a song, painted a picture, or improved a marriage.
"Michael McGoldrick" <mcs...@magma.ca> wrote in message
news:38780D62...@magma.ca...
Ken McKenzie
topic is such boats. You might try
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/trailorsailing for more information.
--
___________________________________________________
Ken McKenzie Criticism never built a house, wrote a play,
composed a song, painted a picture, or improved a marriage.
"canoewho" <vire...@iprimus.ca> wrote in message
news:q7yd4.44713$Ke.2...@news21.bellglobal.com...
canoewho
and wake up alive in the morning.
The ComPac has the same arrangement as the Siren with the berths going under
the cockpit. My kids are pretty small (7,5 and 1.5). I figure I might even
be able to string the baby across the cabin in a hammock. Even if I can't,
my wife and I can easily fit down the under-cockpit berths leaving a lot of
space for the other two (or three). I will likely construct a boom tent or
mosquito netting tent however because I would much rather sleep under the
stars on a summer night than inside the boat. I'll banish the porta potty
and some gear to the front deck at night. Sleeping outside is something
that's tough to do on shore because of mice, squirrels, raccoons and other
furry critters scampering around.
Most of the time we'll probably sleep on shore but it is nice to have the
option. I'm used to doing this in a tent and trust me, the sailboat will
probably be a LOT more comfortable.
The boat I bought has to be cleaned up a bit. After that I plan to add as
many comfort customizations as I can i.e. fresh hull paint, boom tent,
closed cell cushions, louvered doors for the cockpit hatch, net storage,
tiller extender etc. Let me know what things you have found to be
worthwhile to add to the boat for voyaging with kids and the associated
stuff you need to cart along with them. Some tips from someone who has
actually done it would be great!
Steve
Ken McKenzie <do...@forget.your.towel> wrote in message
news:Iixe4.24643$g12.7...@news2.rdc1.on.home.com...
> --
> ___________________________________________________
> Ken McKenzie Criticism never built a house, wrote a play,
> composed a song, painted a picture, or improved a marriage.
Pete Hodgins
> There is a site on Yahoo's clubs that is for 'Trailor Sailors' and their
> topic is such boats. You might try
> http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/trailorsailing for more information.
My elder son, who is more Internet-literate than I, tried to get
me to this e-address, but without success - likely because I have text
only, at present (and can't find my way into the graphics service offered
by my server). Similarly equipped users of this group may save their time
by not trying.
[However, I do have an interest I can even call `professional' in
microcruising & microcruisers - which, together with trailerable racing
dinghies, Lasers, Sunfish, light catamarans, et al, would presumably fit
the Yahoo terminology. I have therefore not yet given up the struggle to
get graphics service. I think it must be done by phone, but I have serious
trouble hearing by phone. ARRGH! Luckily my son hears well, but it's been
Silly Season and my son goes back to Korea soon ...]
Note that we did get far enough to verify the misspelling of
TRAILER marked above with *^*. Yahoo doesn't get very high marks on this
quasi-illiterate goof.
Pete
