UK population must fall to 30m, says Porritt

[Steven Parker]

 “The common enemy of humanity is man.
In searching for a new enemy to unite us, we came up
with the idea that pollution, the threat of global warming,
water shortages, famine and the like would fit the bill. All these
dangers are caused by human intervention, and it is only through
changed attitudes and behavior that they can be overcome.
The real enemy then, is humanity itself."
- Club of Rome The First Global Revolution

Where do you think the sustainability agenda will lead to in the context of position for the earth? Could the CO2 con be the most idea in seraching for 'a common enemy to unite us'?

UK population must fall to 30m, says Porritt

Jonathan Leake and Brendan Montague

JONATHON PORRITT, one of Gordon Brown’s leading green advisers, is to warn that Britain must drastically reduce its population if it is to build a sustainable society.

[Steven Parker]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article5950442.ece

[Anna Hughes]

Hi all

 

I thought that the following 2 comments from this article were quite interesting. 

 

“Each person in Britain has far more impact on the environment than those in developing countries so cutting our population is one way to reduce that impact.”

 

Such views on population have split the green movement. George Monbiot, a prominent writer on green issues, has criticised population campaigners, arguing that “relentless” economic growth is a greater threat.

The idea of reducing the population seems to be so that we can continue our economic growth and excessive standard of living.  How about we all change our attitudes towards the standard of living we think we 'need'?  Impossible you say?  I argue that reducing population is even more impossible - besides nature/our planet will sort that out when she needs to.

 

Anna ;)

[Steven Parker]

On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 12:12 PM, Anna Hughes <annajoa...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi all

 

I thought that the following 2 comments from this article were quite interesting. 

 

“Each person in Britain has far more impact on the environment than those in developing countries so cutting our population is one way to reduce that impact.”

 

Such views on population have split the green movement. George Monbiot, a prominent writer on green issues, has criticised population campaigners, arguing that “relentless” economic growth is a greater threat.

The idea of reducing the population seems to be so that we can continue our economic growth and excessive standard of living.  How about we all change our attitudes towards the standard of living we think we 'need'?
 

Impossible you say?  I argue that reducing population is even more impossible - besides nature/our planet will sort that out when she needs to.

Either that or bird flu
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Health--Science/Science/Virus-mix-up-by-lab-could-have-resulted-in-pandemic/articleshow/4230882.cms

Solve the sustainability problem nicely.

[Anna Hughes]

Yep.  Guess that's what a mean by nature (natural consequences).  :)

[Steven Parker]

Natural organic deadly virus vaccines.

[Anna Hughes]

still a natural consequence to our 'ambulance at the bottom of the cliff' mentality!

--
Anna, Wayne and Eli
26 Oregon St, Dunedin. 4546848
"Saving the world one nappy free baby at a time!"

[Steven Parker]

I don't know what you mean Anni? Can't fathom how one cannot be so bliase about deliberate contamination of vaccines with deadly bird virus but there you go. I am always amazed by people's cognition against my own.

http://www.naturalnews.com/025760.html
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20090227/Bird_Flu_090227/20090227?hub=Health

 Millions of people would probably have died from pandemics if it had off been released...some people, Eugencists like JONATHON PORRITT and the Club of Rome people (Which includes al gore)  in private would probably see that as a good thing. Very twisted morals, very tragic for the victims of other poweful people's idea's and actions to shape the world they think it should be.

[Anna Hughes]

Hi Steve

This is Anna, not Anni and I'm certainly not bliase about (was it deliberate?) contamination of vaccines.  I do believe that vaccines are still the 'ambulance at the bottom of the cliff'.  Some might consider them 'preventative' but are they really dealing with the real problem.  Often not.

Even if something like this wipes out a huge amount of the world's population it is still a natural consequence of the society we have created.  Sorry no practical solutions here, accept going back to the basic values/morals we are teaching those we influence.  Is there really any other solution to the state of our world?  Rules/laws/policies just won't change things.

I dont' think email conversations cut it for this kind of conversation!  I am often sceptical, but completely heartless. :)

[Steven Parker]

Suggest this as a good learning resource for framing conversations on the sustainability of society.

http://video.google.com.au/videosearch?q=the%20hilosophy%20of%20liberty&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&client=firefox-a&safe=on&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wv#

Esp in the context of this tread.

[Steven Parker]

Sorry Anna and Anni.

I don't think we live in a society we have created. Interested to know what you think of the Philisophy of Liberty Video in relation to this thread.

[Anna Hughes]

Thanks.  Interesting. 

[Helen]

Hi Steve,
I have posted my response to the video 'The Philosophy of Liberty'
on my blog at http://helenlindsay.wordpress.com/2009/04/02/the-philosophy-of-liberty/
I would be interested to hear your comments.

cheers,
Helen

On Mar 24, 3:17 pm, Anna Hughes <annajoanhug...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks. Interesting.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 3:01 PM, Steven Parker <sparke...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Suggest this as a good learning resource for framing conversations on the
> > sustainability of society.
>

> >http://video.google.com.au/videosearch?q=the%20hilosophy%20of%20liber...

>
> > Esp in the context of this tread.
>

> > On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 12:46 PM, Steven Parker <sparke...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
> >> I don't know what you mean Anni? Can't fathom how one cannot be so bliase
> >> about deliberate contamination of vaccines with deadly bird virus but there
> >> you go. I am always amazed by people's cognition against my own.
>
> >>http://www.naturalnews.com/025760.html
>

> >>http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20090227/Bird_Flu...

>
> >> Millions of people would probably have died from pandemics if it had off
> >> been released...some people, Eugencists like JONATHON PORRITT and the Club
> >> of Rome people (Which includes al gore) in private would probably see that
> >> as a good thing. Very twisted morals, very tragic for the victims of other
> >> poweful people's idea's and actions to shape the world they think it should
> >> be.
>

> >> On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 12:32 PM, Anna Hughes <annajoanhug...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
> >>> still a natural consequence to our 'ambulance at the bottom of the cliff'
> >>> mentality!
>

> >>> On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 2:23 PM, Steven Parker <sparke...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
> >>>> Natural organic deadly virus vaccines.
>

> >>>> On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 12:20 PM, Anna Hughes <annajoanhug...@gmail.com

> >>>> > wrote:
>
> >>>>> Yep. Guess that's what a mean by nature (natural consequences). :)
>

> >>>>> On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 2:17 PM, Steven Parker <sparke...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
> >>>>>> On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 12:12 PM, Anna Hughes <
> >>>>>> annajoanhug...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>>>>>> Hi all
>
> >>>>>>> I thought that the following 2 comments from this article were quite
> >>>>>>> interesting.
>
> >>>>>>> “Each person in Britain has far more impact on the environment than
> >>>>>>> those in developing countries so cutting our population is one way to reduce
> >>>>>>> that impact.”
>
> >>>>>>> Such views on population have split the green movement. George
> >>>>>>> Monbiot, a prominent writer on green issues, has criticised population
> >>>>>>> campaigners, arguing that “relentless” economic growth is a greater threat.
>
> >>>>>>> The idea of reducing the population seems to be so that we can
> >>>>>>> continue our economic growth and excessive standard of living. How about we
> >>>>>>> all change our attitudes towards the standard of living we think we 'need'?
>
> >>>>>> Impossible you say? I argue that reducing population is even more
> >>>>>>> impossible - besides nature/our planet will sort that out when she needs to.
>
> >>>>>> Either that or bird flu
>

> >>>>>>http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Health--Science/Science/Virus-mix-...

>
> >>>>>> Solve the sustainability problem nicely.
>
> >>>>>>> Anna ;)
> >>>>>>> On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 2:04 PM, Steven Parker <
> >>>>>>> sparke...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>>>>>>>http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article5950442.ece
>
> >>>>>>>> On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 12:03 PM, Steven Parker <

> >>>>>>>> sparke...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>>>>>>>> “*The common enemy of humanity is man.

> >>>>>>>>> In searching for a new enemy to unite us, we came up
> >>>>>>>>> with the idea that pollution, the threat of global warming,
> >>>>>>>>> water shortages, famine and the like would fit the bill. All these
> >>>>>>>>> dangers are caused by human intervention, and it is only through
> >>>>>>>>> changed attitudes and behavior that they can be overcome.

> >>>>>>>>> The real enemy then, is humanity itself."**
> >>>>>>>>> - Club of Rome **The First Global Revolution*
>
> >>>>>>>>> *Where do you think the sustainability agenda will lead to in the

> >>>>>>>>> context of position for the earth? Could the CO2 con be the most idea in

> >>>>>>>>> seraching for 'a common enemy to unite us'?*

[Steven Parker]

I will have a read and reply, from having a scan of your conclusion that people, the masses are not 'enlightened' and unable to make rational judgements is interesting.

'Libertarianism as an evolutionary step, will only work if we are all enlightened. This is sadly not the case. Libertarianism only serves the needs of a minority. Whilst there are still selfish people in the world, libertarianism and the notion of ‘freedom’ are too risky, and sane humanitarian democratically elected governments must remain.'

Your statement makes me think back to Plato's Republic...in this respect
http://books.google.com.au/books?id=nPdw5WbDr1AC&pg=PA140&lpg=PA140&dq=platos%27+republic+liberty+ruling+class%27&source=bl&ots=xTPqODOf57&sig=JGkfYfgKueS4cPGvCGOAnGOV5F8&hl=en&ei=lBvUSfeGJ9CLkAWozoCSDw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1
 (which was earlier mentioned in this group in the context of eugenics and sustainability):

Excellent thank you Helen will get back to you.

[Steven Parker]

For a grim laugh: 'Dennis the constitutional peasant':

http://video.google.com.au/videosearch?q=monty+python+and+the+holy+grail&hl=en&emb=0&aq=1&oq=monty+pyth#q=Dennis+The+Constitutional+Peasant+&hl=en&emb=0

Skit text: http://www.mwscomp.com/movies/grail/grail-03.htm

and following on:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7974995.stm

[Helen]

Thanks Steve, I will read your links. I think my emphasis on 'greed'
as a human failing is very timely considering the current state of the
world economy.
Cheers

On Apr 2, 5:22 pm, Steven Parker <sparke...@gmail.com> wrote:
> For a grim laugh: 'Dennis the constitutional peasant':
>

> http://video.google.com.au/videosearch?q=monty+python+and+the+holy+gr...

>
> Skit text:http://www.mwscomp.com/movies/grail/grail-03.htm
>
> and following on:
>
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7974995.stm
>

> On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 1:10 PM, Steven Parker <sparke...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I will have a read and reply, from having a scan of your conclusion that
> > people, the masses are not 'enlightened' and unable to make rational
> > judgements is interesting.
>
> > 'Libertarianism as an evolutionary step, will only work if we are all
> > enlightened. This is sadly not the case. Libertarianism only serves the
> > needs of a minority. Whilst there are still selfish people in the world,
> > libertarianism and the notion of ‘freedom’ are too risky, and sane
> > humanitarian democratically elected governments must remain.'
>
> > Your statement makes me think back to Plato's Republic...in this respect
>

> >http://books.google.com.au/books?id=nPdw5WbDr1AC&pg=PA140&lpg=PA140&d...

> > (which was earlier mentioned in this group in the context of eugenics and
> > sustainability):
>
> > Excellent thank you Helen will get back to you.
>

[Helen]

Hi Steve,
I think page 147 of the book review of Plato's republic is relevant to
my argument. .http://books.google.com.au/books?
id=nPdw5WbDr1AC&pg=PA140&lpg=PA140&dq=platos%27+republic+liberty+ruling
+class
%27&source=bl&ots=xTPqODOf57&sig=JGkfYfgKueS4cPGvCGOAnGOV5F8&hl=en&ei=lBvUSfeGJ9CLkAWozoCSDw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1#PPA147,M1is
How do you create hyper links on this discussion board.??
Helen