Temporary closed roads

[JeCh]

I'd like to know if there is any way to mark roads in OSM as temporary closed. There are many roads in reconstruction around me which can not be used for a couple of months. Is there any way to mark them as closed? I didn't find such option in OSM.

[poutnik]

There is the tag value highway = construction.

I suppose it may be intended for such purpose.

28. srpna 2015 10:07:49 CEST, JeCh <vladimi...@gmail.com> napsal:

I'd like to know if there is any way to mark roads in OSM as temporary closed. There are many roads in reconstruction around me which can not be used for a couple of months. Is there any way to mark them as closed? I didn't find such option in OSM.

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[Vladimír Jícha]

I think this is intended for roads which are not built yet but planned. It might work for OsmAnd if it accepts this tag. But I think it might be confusing for other users.

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[CP]

According to the OSM wiki this is perfectly acceptable:

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:construction

Ceaus.

Op 28-08-15 om 10:21 schreef Vladimír Jícha:

[Jack Burke]

Adding access=no is also a possibility.

-jack

[Luke Bryan]

Osmand isn't alone - I noticed that both Here maps and CoPilot GPS apps also didn't account for roads that had been closed due to fire for over a week. :(

[Dave Welsh]

This is very tricky.
Maps are updated once a month or so.
A road is closed for construction or what ever the reason.
It is closed from the 10 to the 22nd.
The first months map will not show it being closed because for 10 days it is not closed
The next month will show it as closed. Even if it is open on the 22nd.
So, not the maps would be wrong for both months.
Unless you had daily map updates I cant see a way to make this work.

[Greg Troxel]

I would use access=no if it's mostly just prohibited, and
also highway=construction if the road ends up getting totally rebuilt.

There are two separable issues. One is adjusting the OSM database, and
for anything lnoger than a week I think that's legitimate.

The other is the processing pipeline from the OSM database to compiled
maps for various users to update rates. So I can see the point that
for a closure of 2 weeks that isn't worth it.

It would be nice to have closed tags for roads with dates and to have
data consumers process those. But I suspect that this is sufficiently
infrequent that people won't do that much work to solve the problem.

[Zian Choy]

I agree that this is a tricky situation.

Unfortunately, even if there are clear signs up saying that a road will be re-opened next week, the road may not actually be passable then because of construction delays.

Since it is better for someone to take a slightly longer route rather than trying to use a closed road, it would be preferable to simply mark highway=construction (or something like that) regardless of the map file processing time/pipeline.

Sincerely,

Zian Choy

[CP]

Updating the OSM database is not only for OsmAnd!
So if its worth noting, its worth editing the OSM database.

Ceaus

Dave Welsh <dave...@gmail.com> schreef op 30 augustus 2015 12:47:17 CEST:

[Paul Johnson]

On Fri, Aug 28, 2015 at 9:16 AM, Jack Burke <burk...@gmail.com> wrote:

Adding access=no is also a possibility.

 I would lean away from access tags to mark construction areas unless we're talking access:lanes for roads partially closed; in which construction=minor should also be tagged.

[Paul Johnson]

On Sun, Aug 30, 2015 at 5:47 AM, Dave Welsh <dave...@gmail.com> wrote:

This is very tricky.
Maps are updated once a month or so.
A road is closed for construction or what ever the reason.
It is closed from the 10 to the 22nd.
The first months map will not show it being closed because for 10 days it is not closed
The next month will show it as closed. Even if it is open on the 22nd.
So, not the maps would be wrong for both months.
Unless you had daily map updates I cant see a way to make this work.

Well, for Osmand it would be wrong, but other data consumers and people rolling their own Osmand maps would have access to up-to-date info if you were to live-map it. 

[Peter B]

Let me assume for example the road is closed from apr 10 to apr 22.
access:conditional=no @ (apr 10 - apr 22)

Peter

[poutnik]

I have recently noticed this on OSM wiki as well.

It would be ideal, but I doubt OSM based navigations process it properly.

Furthermore, 2 weeks off has more sense for OSM itself than for OSMand, because of OBF map update frequency.

1. září 2015 16:29:53 CEST, Peter B <pebo...@gmail.com> napsal:

Let me assume for example the road is closed from apr 10 to apr 22.
access:conditional=no @ (apr 10 - apr 22)

Peter

[Peter Bozenhardt]

> It would be ideal, but I doubt OSM based navigations process it properly.

Then programmers have to do their job. 
The specification of osm is obligatory.
Peter

[Jack Burke]

Well, it depends kinda on why the road is closed.

I know of a road segment near me which goes under a freeway.  It's a divided road under the freeway because of how the freeway bridge was built (support columns in the middle).  Right now, the 2 lanes in one direction are closed and all traffic is being routed single-file through the other lanes--but the closed lanes are NOT undergoing construction.  Rather, the freeway bridge overhead is being expanded.  So this would be one of those cases where highway=construction is technically wrong for the closed lanes.

But yes, if the road itself is being redone, then I agree with you.  If someone isn't sure why the road is closed, I'd go with access=no for the time being, until more detailed information is available.

--jack

[Paul Johnson]

On Tue, Sep 1, 2015 at 11:23 AM, Jack Burke <burk...@gmail.com> wrote:

Well, it depends kinda on why the road is closed.

I know of a road segment near me which goes under a freeway.  It's a divided road under the freeway because of how the freeway bridge was built (support columns in the middle).  Right now, the 2 lanes in one direction are closed and all traffic is being routed single-file through the other lanes--but the closed lanes are NOT undergoing construction.  Rather, the freeway bridge overhead is being expanded.  So this would be one of those cases where highway=construction is technically wrong for the closed lanes.

highway=construction is clearly the wrong tag, however, leaving highway=* alone and supplementing it with highway=construction is what I meant.

[Marc Gemis]

On Friday, August 28, 2015 at 10:07:49 AM UTC+2, JeCh wrote:

I'd like to know if there is any way to mark roads in OSM as temporary closed. There are many roads in reconstruction around me which can not be used for a couple of months. Is there any way to mark them as closed? I didn't find such option in OSM.

It would be nice if they would implement the temporary proposal

[Paul Johnson]

I think this got largely supplanted by the Notes system (linking to relevant DOT material) and more traditional construction/proposed tagging.  That said, would be nice if Osmand understood access:lanes=*... 

[JeCh]

It is really a shame that there is no used standard for closed roads. It also might be a good idea to make another traffic relevant database. That would include closed roads, average speeds or even accidents and blocking traffic. Something what most other navigations offer and Waze is probably best at it.

[Paul Johnson]

On Fri, Sep 4, 2015 at 6:56 AM, JeCh <vladimi...@gmail.com> wrote:

It is really a shame that there is no used standard for closed roads. It also might be a good idea to make another traffic relevant database.

There is.  access=no if it exists but temporarily closed long term.  highway=construction, construction=<classification> for ways closed for construction.  access:lanes=yes|no|no situations where only the left of three lanes is open.

 

That would include closed roads, average speeds or even accidents and blocking traffic. Something what most other navigations offer and Waze is probably best at it.

 OSM's toolchain isn't quite that quick to react; that might be better for a time-based POI system.  I seem to recall trafficspeed is trying to do something like this and probably could be implemented as a plugin if that system still exists.

[Marc Gemis]

What's DOT ? Something US only ? Which would mean that it is of no use for me.

Notes are just free texts, the proposal has some parseable tags.

[Harry van der Wolf]

The new nightly builds have the "live maps". These maps are created every night and contain the differences to the normal map. Once live maps is active in the normal Google Play Store OsmAnd version, this "Temporary Closed Roads" could work fine, as maps are no more than 24 hours old (if you do update).

Harry

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[Mirco Zorzo]

This is wonderful!

Mirco

[Jack Burke]

Marc,

DOT stands for Department of Transportation. Depending on context, it can refer to a federal, state, or County level agency. Sometimes a specific one might be referred to by using USDOT (for United States DOT) or GDOT (for Georgia DOT).

-jack

[Marc Gemis]

Thanks Jack for the explanation. As I thought, of no use for me. I doubt the DOT cares about a cycling bridge in Belgium that was announced to be closed from June to August. (but unfortunately is still not accessible today) :-)

So notes linking to DOT documents might be a solution in the USA, but is not globally applicable. 

[Jack Burke]

> I doubt the DOT cares
> about a cycling bridge
> in Belgium that was
> announced to be closed
> from June to August.
> (but unfortunately is
> still not accessible today)

Oh, I don't know about that. These days, the U.S. federal government seems to try to get involved in all sorts of things that aren't its business. :-P

-jack

[Paul Johnson]

On Mon, Sep 7, 2015 at 1:44 AM, Marc Gemis <marc....@gmail.com> wrote:

What's DOT ? Something US only ? Which would mean that it is of no use for me.

Department of Transportation.  Exact or rough equivalent regional variations on the theme I've heard at various levels would be Transport for London, Caltrans, OklaDOT, Ministry of Transport, Ministry of Transportation and Highways, Bureau of Transportation, Metro (as used in the Portland/(especially) Los Angeles sense), Highway Administration, Highway Authority, Turnpike Authority...