Osmand cannot determine location / find satellites

[Pavel Astashonok]

Well, the problem is described in title.

Several times I found myself in a big trouble because of Osmand. When I was in alien country, alien city I wasn't able to orient myself.

Osmand cannot get GPS location whereas built-in Google Maps perfectly do this. On the same device in the same time.

What's the matter? Does presence/absence of GSM signal has any influence or any other factors?

On the screenshot typical situation is showed: Osmand is supposed to find satellites but it is illusion. Really he cannot orientate himself.

This is what GPS status shows permanently:

Device: Samsung Galaxy Relay

Firmware: Cyanogen 11,  4.4.4

Osmand ver.: 1.9.5 (latest)

 

[Narayan]

Yes, I have reported this issue several times.

Moreover, if the location services setting is set to "Networks only", OSMAnd cannot show the current location in Browsing mode.
(OsmAnd is not supposed to work with "Network only" while in Navigation mode, which is fine).

Reporting for LG Optimus G Pro p988, running Android Kitkat 4.4.2.

[Pavel Astashonok]

Well, I've already created bug for this issue on tracker. We strongly waiting for the bugfixing from developers as it is very urgent! 

Cheers.I want Osmand to be the best for ever!

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[Osmandtrier]

Sometimes it is helpful to delete the A-GPS-Date and restarting the phone.

[Pavel Astashonok]

How to do this?

[P Wat]

Hi Pawel.
You show a picture of the app "GPS status".  It says; "AGPS age = 0" and "Fx/Sats = 0".  That, and my interpretation of what you say, suggest that "GPS status" is not getting a signal.
Maybe your phone/device is either not receiving  GPS or AGPS signals, or it is not processing them.
If that is the case, what chance does Osmand stand?
Google-map, if it is working for you, is probably getting an adequate fix from phone data etc.

Maybe first get GPS & AGPS into "GPS status". When you've achieved that, try Osmand again.

(Other Osmand-lovers will probably shoot me down with their superior knowledge.)
PW
==============

[Narayan]

Hi

Well, deleting or just reloading the A-GPS data does work in case we are unable to get the bearing.
But that does not apply if Google Maps is able to start using that same fix almost instantly!

Here's a wild theory:

Android has already sensed the fix, and this information is available to all apps through some API.
While Google Maps is using that API, OsmAnd uses some other (old?) API.

Even wilder theory: Google Maps  exploits its online connection to bring that AGPS data and uses it.
As such Google Maps itself starts GPS when needed (after asking the user), but OsmAnd does not.
So it is quite possible that Google takes the liberty to feed A-GPS data to the chip unasked.
Or it may be just flushing the old A-GPS data, so that the phone is forced to load fresh data.

But whatever it does, OsmAnd should do it too.

BTW instead of telling the user "turn the GPS on", OsmAnd says:
"The sleep mode navigation service requires a location provider to be turned on"
This sounds like a English butler in Victorian age. :)
In fact, it should just go ahead and turn the GPS on, after seeking permission from the user.


Regards,
Narayan

[Osmandtrier]

Go to the settings of your android phone. Goto the appsection. Look for GPS-Tools and delete data of the app.

[Osmandtrier]

Am Donnerstag, 26. März 2015 21:04:31 UTC+1 schrieb P Wat:

Hi Pawel.
You show a picture of the app "GPS status".  It says; "AGPS age = 0" and "Fx/Sats = 0".  That, and my interpretation of what you say, suggest that "GPS status" is not getting a signal.
Maybe your phone/device is either not receiving  GPS or AGPS signals, or it is not processing them.
If that is the case, what chance does Osmand stand?
Google-map, if it is working for you, is probably getting an adequate fix from phone data etc.

Maybe first get GPS & AGPS into "GPS status". When you've achieved that, try Osmand again.

(Other Osmand-lovers will probably shoot me down with their superior knowledge.)

You are licky, that I was so disappointed of my last visit of th  UK, that there is no chance, that I visit the UK again.

Look at the picture, the value is 0h. THat means the app have just downloaded the A-gps-data.

The combintaion GPS-Tool and Osmand is something very strange. In the beginnings of osmand I uninstalled GPS-Tools, although it was recommended for the use of osmand.

[Harry van der Wolf]

GPS usage, like data usage, can be allowed or disallowed for applications (allow app(s) to use my location).

Did you by accident disallow OsmAnd to use GPS?

That would also clarify why Maps works and OsmAnd doesn't work.

Harry

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[Narayan]

I always turn GPS on.
But IINW we cannot choose which apps can use the Location Service and which can't: It's a "yes/no" choice.

BTW OsmAnd does work eventually, without needing any extra tweaking of settings.
But it keeps losing the fix frequently.
on the other hand, Google maps locks fast and keeps working.

So I don't think settings is an issue.

If I long-press on the Location icon, my phone offers three global modes (AFAIK it cannot be set app-wise):
1. High accuracy (GPS+N/w)
2. Battery saving (N/w only)
3. Device sensors only (GPS only)

But if I switch it off and then on again, it always switches to High accuracy mode by default.

FWIW, my phone also has a "Recent location request" list, in which two apps appear in the "low battery use" list: Google app and AccuWeather.
But OsmAnd always appears in "High battery use" list.
(Note that this list does not match with the three modes listed above.)


Regards,
Narayan

[Sabra Sharaya]

It might be worthwhile to go some place where there are definitely no Wi-Fi hotspots or cell phone towers, and see if Google Maps still works.

[P Wat]

Hi Osmandtrier.
Good to know you understand "GPS status"
Thanks for clarifying that "AGPS age = 0" means it has just got AGPS data. (I would have guessed it meant that no data had arrived, and that the value would increase beginning when GPS data was received, counting up from when it was last received)
What is the meaning of "Fx/Sats = 0"?
And why is there a reading of 306 (NW) while the needle is lying at N/S?
And is N/S the default position for the needle when there is no GPS fix?
Thanks
PW
========

[Pavel Astashonok]

Maybe first get GPS & AGPS into "GPS status". When you've achieved that, try Osmand again.

Thank you, Captain Obvious! If you know how to achieve this feel free to inform me. 

[Pavel Astashonok]

Harry,

in what Preferences section this option resides? I certainly didn't do this intentionally but maybe something went wrong...I can check it.

[Jack Burke]

Fx/Sat refers to the number of satellite fixes (the Fx number) verses the number of satellites it detects (Sat). Your phone could detect 15 satellites but only have 1 fix (for example) due to cloud cover or other interference.

You need 3 fixes for good location data, and a 4th to get good altitude data. More fixes helps improve the accuracy of your location (with only 3 fixes it might be off by a hundred feet or so, it depends on the quality of the data being received from the GPS satellite).

[Jack Burke]

You might want to try a good, free GPS app to see how well your phone is receiving GPS at a particular location. I usually use GPS Status & Toolbox by MobiWIA - EclipSim, and GPS Test by Chartcross Limited.

[P Wat]

Thank you, Jack, for clarifying the meaning of "Fx/Sat".
So in Pavel's example "Fx/Sats = 0" implies his device (or his GPS status app) was not getting any fixes.
Hardly surprising then that his Osmand would not give him a position (as said in his initial post of 26/3/15).  Not a fault in Osmand, but in his device.
No point blaming Osmand. (as I deduced in mine of same date)

It thus becomes ncreasingly clear that the approach to a solution to Pawel's problem will be through determining why his device is not receiving GPS, or not processing it. (as seems to be the intention in his post to Harry of 6:38 AM today (128/3/15)
If it has failed, or been accidentally disabled it, it is not only Osmand that is affected, but seemingly all all GPS dependent Apps.

(Or have I missed something?)
Good luck Pawel.
PW
===============

[Pavel Astashonok]

Exactly! Why does this issue affect only Osmand but not all GPS-apps? Who can answer this question?

[Narayan]

And, as in my case, I do have satellite fix with good accuracy, as seen in GPS Test app.
And when Google Maps is running concurrently with OsmAnd, only the Google Map shows the location.

[Pere Pujal i Carabantes]

Now that I remember, in my box(Vexia navlet) I can run only one navigator app at a time
if I start first osmand, then the Vexia app doesn'get the gps data, and the inverse, if the vexia app is running, then it is osmand not getting a gps fix.

Maybe related to how file with the gps data is opened?

HTH
Pere

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[P Wat]

Osmand generally runs OK for me, with ViewRanger. (Androd 4.4.4 on MotoG 1st series).  There have been occasional minor glitches at start up (I have not had time to analyse these) but if startup has been OK.they have continued to operate simultaneously. AR Bearing compass seems to run OK with them.
PW
=============

[Pavel Astashonok]

Unfortunately, I can conclude that even after the update to latest version (2.0.4) the bug didn't dissapear.

But I noticed additional facts: is covers not only OSMand but Google Maps too. GPS positioning works only in "High accuracy mode" for both of them.

In "Device only" mode it works in neither of them.

In "Battery saving" mode it works sporadically in both of them. In other words loosing and re-establishing the connection to satellites from time to time. Normal navigation is impossible in this mode.

Finally, this is not the way I want. Very often I want to use OSMand in the regions where cellular is not available but GPS is needed no matter what.

What could you advise me to fix this? In what direction should I probe into?

Kind regards.

[Osmandtrier]

Uninstall GPS Status & Toolbox or change the settings in this App.

I am not sure, but it seems to me that there are two possibilitie on a Android Phone with GPS Status & Toolbox

1. gps-reciever -> GPS Status & Toolbox -> GPS-using-App
2. gps-reciever ->  GPS-using-App

If I had troubles with gpsfix in Osmand, the most working methode is uninstalling GPS Status & Toolbox. This weekend I discovered in GPS Status & Toolbox settings, wich seems to influence the steam from gps-reciever to the GPS-using-App.

[Peter B]

> This weekend I discovered in GPS Status & Toolbox settings, which seems to influence the steam from gps-reciever to > the GPS-using-App.

Please explain this settings, I like that tool, but sometimes have problems with GPS as well.
Peter

[Pavel Astashonok]

I uninstalled GPS Status but it seems that nothing changed. I will test it further.

[Poutnik]

I second that...

Dne úterý 12. května 2015 9:02:40 UTC+2 Peter B napsal(a):

[Osmandtrier]

Sorry I only understand there is a influence, but what kind of influence and what is the result of the influence I do not understand.

[Pavel Astashonok]

On Thursday, March 26, 2015 at 1:10:01 PM UTC+3, Pavel Astashonok wrote:
> Well, the problem is described in title.
> Several times I found myself in a big trouble because of Osmand. When I was in alien country, alien city I wasn't able to orient myself.
> Osmand cannot get GPS location whereas built-in Google Maps perfectly do this. On the same device in the same time.
> What's the matter? Does presence/absence of GSM signal has any influence or any other factors?
> On the screenshot typical situation is showed: Osmand is supposed to find satellites but it is illusion. Really he cannot orientate himself.
>

> This is what GPS status shows permanently:
>
>
> Device: Samsung Galaxy Relay
> Firmware: Cyanogen 11,  4.4.4
> Osmand ver.: 1.9.5 (latest)
>  

Well, does anybody can suggest anything useful? Why does GPS positioning work only with mobile Internet enabled? Is it hardware bug?
The problem still exists.

[Poutnik]

Dne 14/06/2015 v 23:15 Pavel Astashonok napsal(a):

You do not say if other GPS aware apps, like GPS status, get fix or not.
Google apps are little out of game,as themay use other locastion sources, like GSM or wifi, especially in cities.
And yes,  Vanilla GPS and GPS assisted can make big difference.

Some devices have GPS subsystem quite screwed up.

[stf]

This is highly dependent on your phone. For my older Galaxy Nexus if I don't have a reasonably close location provided by a network location based service it can take a long, long time for the GPS to acquire. But the new Moto E LTE acquires very rapidly and shows a lot more satellites.

In a nutshell, the GPS receivers in some smart phones is pretty lousy. To acquire lock quickly they need to know the satellite orbital information (that can come from a network source) and/or where they are (also from a network source). This is called "assisted GPS" or AGPS.

In theory, the GPS receiver monitors the satellite signals then within about 12 or so minutes they will receive the full satellite orbital information directly from the satellites and then it can acquire. But that is a long time to wait.

I think most of the newer phones also use the Russian GLONASS system in addition to the American GPS system and between the two systems they can lock much faster and track under more demanding situations. I haven't read the specifications but I'd be very surprised if the Moto E LTE wasn't using GLONASS in addition to GPS.

What can you do with a older phone where you have no network connectivity? In my case I am using a Google free Android distribution and some of the components from the microG project including a network location provider that uses plug-ins and a couple of those plug-ins use on-phone databases to resolve position so no network connection is actually needed. I believe that with the xposed framework you can also use this stuff on a less modified phone but it would still need to be rooted.

[vor nach]

same problem: Satellite 7/7 - Position not yet known
After starting Locus: OSMAND shows: Satellite 10/10 - Position is found

[Pavel Astashonok]

You do not say if other GPS aware apps, like GPS status, get fix or not.

 

No, GPS status haven't helped. 

[Pavel Astashonok]

In my case I am using a Google free Android distribution and some of the components from the microG project including a network location provider that uses plug-ins and a couple of those plug-ins use on-phone databases to resolve position so no network connection is actually needed.

Could you, please, clarify what exact free Android distribution are you using and what it is alike? What is its significant difference from other distributions and could it be applicable to other (non-Motorola) phones?  

[poutnik]

This may mean it is not OSMand fault,
If neither GPS status gets GPS lock.

Android applications do not process GPSsignal on its own, AFAIK,
bit ask Android API for this service.

16. června 2015 15:27:42 CEST, Pavel Astashonok <pavel.as...@gmail.com> napsal:

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Please, forgive my brevity.

[Pavel Astashonok]

Android applications do not process GPSsignal on its own, AFAIK,

 

I aware of this. And my first post in this thread clearly shows that GPS status doesn't get the signal himself. I wonder if something knows what am I doing wrong with hardware? Why doesn't it get the signal? Is there anybody who is competent in such low-level and hardware-related things?

[Tod Fitch]

On Jun 16, 2015, at 6:30 AM, Pavel Astashonok <pavel.as...@gmail.com> wrote:

In my case I am using a Google free Android distribution and some of the components from the microG project including a network location provider that uses plug-ins and a couple of those plug-ins use on-phone databases to resolve position so no network connection is actually needed.

Could you, please, clarify what exact free Android distribution are you using and what it is alike? What is its significant difference from other distributions and could it be applicable to other (non-Motorola) phones?  

Actually, the Motorola phone for my spouse is non-rooted and still running the stock distribution from Motorola with all the Google stuff.

My phone is a Samsung Galaxy Nexus which I rooted a while ago. Until very recently I have been running a flavor of CyanogenMod on it, first version 10 and more recently version 11 (KitKat). I rooted the phone and went to an alternate distribution largely because Google stopped supporting it at Jelly Bean and because the Google applications I was not using were taking up some of my limited storage space (no external SD card on this phone).

Because of licensing issues, CyanogenMod does not come with what they call “gapps” but what appears to be the Google Mobile Services (GMS) package, which contains a bunch of Google libraries and apps like Play Store, Google+, Hangouts, etc. Among the libraries is the network location provider. Most people separately download the gapps package and flash it after flashing CyanogenMod to give them a full featured phone.

CyanogenMod is pretty well supported and has builds for a large number of different phones so it is a pretty reasonable way of getting started on an alternate distribution.

Most recently, I have become aware of some other distributions on http://www.xda-developers.com and am running a 5.1 Lollipop distribution called ZMoD which is very close to AOSP (Android Open Source Project). It is a little rough around the edges, but it supports f2fs and between reformatting my /data and /cache mounts to f2fs and running this new distribution my old phone is much quicker and responsive than it ever was.

I avoid flashing gapps and simply use the Unified Network Location Provider (unifiedNLP), maps API and BlankStore from the microG project as I found I don’t need much more. The unifiedNLP program can be downloaded from the F-Droid store along with a number of backend plug-ins, also available on F-Droid, that use different methods and providers to provide a network based location. The two unifiedNLP plug-ins I use are the “local GSM provider” and “local wifi provider” neither of which need to have a network connection to provide a location estimate. Disclosure: I wrote those two plug-ins so my opinion is a bit biased.

If you are into using things like Google+ or Hangouts this will not be an option for you as you will need to install gapps and once you do that you have conflicts between the microG stuff and the Google stuff (they both need to use the same names for things). I’ve read that with the xposed framework you can get the unifiedNLP working on a phone that still has all the Google stuff installed but I don’t have any experience with that.

[Pavel Astashonok]

Actually, I also run CyanogenMod 11 (4.4.4) and all above-stated issues are faced on it. And is microG project can be run simultaneously with GAPPS or no? I cannot give up Google Play for now.

[Poutnik]

The topic may be better suited to Android or device related forums.
My SONY XPERIA M DUAL phone has similar problems, suddenly loosing previously well established signal without clear reason.

Acconding to me, it is not questing of signal, the device simply decides itself to to bother with GPS.

My solving steps are :

1) Turn GPS OFF for at least 5s, then turn ON. helps in 3 from 4 cases, especially if first occurence.
2) If 1) does not help, I shut OSMAnd down,  perform step one, relauch OSMAnd. Helps in 2 cases in 3.
           ( hm, OSMAnd 2.0. does not have exit button, 2.1 not even exit command - perhaps Back button would do so.
3) If 2) does not help, I reboot the Android and lauch OSMAnd agins.  GPX need not to be restarted this time, the GPx subsystem seems to be restarted well after reboot.

After reboot in step 3, GPS always works for me. Perhaps bad firmwre of GPS modul, or androis GPs drivers, or God knows...



Dne úterý 16. června 2015 15:42:28 UTC+2 Pavel Astashonok napsal(a):

[Tod Fitch]

> On Jun 16, 2015, at 8:31 AM, Pavel Astashonok <pavel.as...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Actually, I also run CyanogenMod 11 (4.4.4) and all above-stated issues are faced on it. And is microG project can be run simultaneously with GAPPS or no? I cannot give up Google Play for now.
>

You might want to experiment with using the xposed framework to run unifiedNLP. But as I haven’t tried that I don’t know what is involved or the issues that can come up.

[Tod Fitch]

> On Jun 16, 2015, at 8:42 AM, Poutnik <poutni...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> ( hm, OSMAnd 2.0. does not have exit button, 2.1 not even exit command - perhaps Back button would do so.

Tap the little rectangle in the squares at the bottom left of screen to up up the waypoints, etc.
In the top right of the screen is a gear and three horizontal lines, tap on the horizontal lines to bring up a list.
Bottom of the list is “exit"

[poutnik]

H'm, rather was, I was in fact used to it, when the 1.9 button disappeared.
In 2.1 the bottom Exit item of 3line button disappeared as well.

16. června 2015 17:55:47 CEST, Tod Fitch <s.tod...@gmail.com> napsal:

[Tod Fitch]

> On Jun 16, 2015, at 9:04 AM, poutnik <poutni...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> H'm, rather was, I was in fact used to it, when the 1.9 button disappeared.
> In 2.1 the bottom Exit item of 3line button disappeared as well.
>

I am still running 2.0.4 and it is there. I hadn’t realized 2.1 has been released until I read your response.

I wonder why they are doing strange things like eliminating the exit button but not fixing the leave motorway, re-enter motorway routing issue that has been around for a while. Seems like an odd set of priorities.

[Pavel Astashonok]

Neither of these steps worked for me.

[Dmitriy Dotsenko]

Do developers of Osmand read this topic?
They should learn not only from Google Maps but better from a Russian app 2gis which finds location almost instantly after I start it and never loses it. It has many other advantages comparing with Osmand but unfortunately works only in a few countries.
Osmand is always very slow finding my location after I start it, often loses it for several minutes and sometimes loses it until I kill the app process and restart the app. Other location apps keep working fine, so it's not a hardware problem, it's an Osmand problem.
I've had the same issues on various phones with various versions of Android and various versions of Osmand. Now I use LG G4, Android 6.0 and one of the latest versions of Osmand.

[Dmitriy Dotsenko]

Osmand has had this bug for more than 1.5 years already. It seems that Osmand developers are not doing anything about it

[Poutnik]

That is strange, as location aware applications
do not determine the position on its own,
but relies on the system API calls.

There can be some mistreating of Android GPS API calls by OSMAnd,
bad bahaving OSMAnd code to used a/o show the position,
or differences in if GPS is required as the location provider.

Does it happen if 2 location aware applications are used simultaneously,
like OSMAnd and e.g. GPS status , switching betwen them
that only the other has GPS lock ?
I mean a real active lock, not some locked-like frozen GPS state.

My GPS issues are unfortunately related to the device.


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My Brouter profiles
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[Pavel Astashonok]

Personally my issue (about which this thread was started) was connected with bad GPS sensor of my former phone. After I changed the device, the problems had gone, whereas previously it wasn't able to find satellites at all. BUT! Generally I agree with you, Osmand finds locations very slowly and signal droppings are not that rare, as one would want to.