Routable world basemap?

[Maarten Deen]

Is it an idea to make a routable world basemap? A map that only has motorways and maybe primary roads in low detail?
My issue is this: when I go to a country not neighbouring my country, I need to download all countries inbetween. For small countries this is not such a big issue, but for instance France and Germany are split up in regions. Then I have to go checking which regions I need (or download them all).
Since OSM is getting to become such a huge collection of data, just simple roadmaps for transit purposes would be a nice addition.

[Johan Fitié]

I would love to see this included in the default World_basemap.obf.

How much bigger would it be if worldwide highway:[motorway|motorway_link|trunk|trunk_link|primary|primary_link(|secondary|secondary_link)] would be included?

[Harry van der Wolf]

This is also on my wishlist and not as a world map but as a "main roads per (big) country.obf".

I don't know whether your did see this conversation (https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!searchin/osmand/optimized$20map/osmand/VzQNG0XEioA/LtFCo5UnrhAJ) but it is also on my list to try to create a high level map of the "devided" countries.

Use the main map for navigating through the country and use the region map to navigate/tour in the region.

Main maps don't need that many updates either as main roads take time to get constructed and, after construction, remain the same for decennia.

 

However, I tried to do this for Germany and had reserved 2.5GB memory on my server, but that wasn't enough (loads of disk space on the used partition. That was not a problem). After 3½ days Germany crashed. So now I have to start again. (My server is not the fastest when it comes to CPU, but it's an I/O driven process anyway. My quad-core i7 is only approx 10-15% faster. The best would be to have lots and lots of memory as virtual disk, and second best an SSD disk).

 

And for me it is only trying to find out whether this works. With a 32GB SDcard I can not really care about the size unless size decreases performance.

 

Harry

2013/5/2 Maarten Deen <maarte...@gmail.com>

Is it an idea to make a routable world basemap? A map that only has motorways and maybe primary roads in low detail?
My issue is this: when I go to a country not neighbouring my country, I need to download all countries inbetween. For small countries this is not such a big issue, but for instance France and Germany are split up in regions. Then I have to go checking which regions I need (or download them all).
Since OSM is getting to become such a huge collection of data, just simple roadmaps for transit purposes would be a nice addition.

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[David White]

I would add to this, could world base map include regional admin boundaries, this would allow to identify necessary regions to be downloaded for countries like Germany, France, Italy or UK for example.

This would spare me a visit on Wikipedia to check names of regions/lander/counties needed to cross one of those countries.

David

[Maarten Deen]

On Thursday, May 2, 2013 10:55:04 AM UTC+2, Harry van der Wolf wrote:

This is also on my wishlist and not as a world map but as a "main roads per (big) country.obf".

I don't know whether your did see this conversation (https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!searchin/osmand/optimized$20map/osmand/VzQNG0XEioA/LtFCo5UnrhAJ) but it is also on my list to try to create a high level map of the "devided" countries.

 

No, I hadn't seen that yet.

 

However, I tried to do this for Germany and had reserved 2.5GB memory on my server, but that wasn't enough (loads of disk space on the used partition. That was not a problem). After 3½ days Germany crashed. So now I have to start again. (My server is not the fastest when it comes to CPU, but it's an I/O driven process anyway. My quad-core i7 is only approx 10-15% faster. The best would be to have lots and lots of memory as virtual disk, and second best an SSD disk).

Is that starting from a filtered obf file?

[Harry van der Wolf]

2013/5/2 Maarten Deen <maarte...@gmail.com>

Is that starting from a filtered obf file?

 

Yes. Actually I started from an osm.pbf file from Geofabrik.de, converted that to .05m, filtered that one into a "stripped" .o5m, file, converted that back to osm.pbf, converted that one with OsmAndMapCreator to .obf. The first converion and filtering takes 5 minutes tops, for each step. It's the OsmAndMapCreator that takes an awful lot of time.

What I just described was actually to create one of those optimised maps. I will now try to filter to a "roads only" o5m and try to use that one to create a roads-only .obf map. Maybe I will start from the Europe map, maybe I will take the German or French osm.pbf again.

 

You might already have deducted it from my name, but I'm Dutch, not German so I can't really answer really specific german questions.

Germany and France are just big maps compared to the dutch map, even though that one is also big if you compare it to the size of Nederland itself.

 

Harry

[hbogner]

I started doing thematic osm export some time ago and roads were one of those extracts:
http://data.osm-hr.org/planet/
I stopped because of machine failure, and ahvent restarted it again because no one asked for it again.
Here are worldwide highways each in own file.
If needed I could restart the process.

[Harry van der Wolf]

Hi,

Can you make your parameters and/or scripts available?

Harry

2013/5/2 hbogner <hbo...@gmail.com>

[Sabra Sharaya]

Maybe it would be good if there were a choice between the current world map and the more detailed one.

[Harry van der Wolf]

The current worldmap only contains toplevel boundaries (continents, countries, oceans, seas) and places of level city and town. Nothing else AFAIK. No roads whatsoever. You would never be able to use it to navigate.
So yes: you would definitely need a more detailed one.

Harry

2013/5/2 Sabra Sharaya <sabras...@gmail.com>

Maybe it would be good if there were a choice between the current world map and the more detailed one.

[Manfred]

Hi!

That is a "Schnapsidee" (crackpot idea)
A world base map containing high level routes usable for navigation.
I  am not interested in Chinese highways, and somebody from China would not be interested in European highways. Or South American, Australien,.......

Regards
Manfred

[Sabra Sharaya]

I say maybe there should be two options because there will be people who only need local maps, and for them a world map with motorways would be a huge file with unnecessary data.

And then there are people who would like to travel between nations. For them, the more detailed world map would be efficient, and downloading maps for each nation would result in unnecessary data.

Making two types of world maps available might accommodate both groups.

[Harry van der Wolf]

Triggered by this conversation I'm currently making a "europe_major_roads.obf". As this is a huge job (for the computer that is), I started it last night and it is still running. I'm working at two levels (on 2 computers). One up to tertiary road level, which is going to be somewhere around 3GB (I think), and one up to secondary road level, which will be somewhere around 1.5GB (I think).

 

Based on that one could also create a North-america, south-america, Asia map, etc.

 

 

But it takes looooooooooooooooooooooooong...

 

Harry

[Maarten Deen]

Have a look at what my reasoning behind the idea is. If you go from the Netherlands to Austria, you don't really need the whole of Germany. And since Germany is split up in one map per Bundesland, you would need to know which Bundesland you crossed when going to Austria. I know a bit of Germany, but can not identify every Bundesland from the top of my head.

That's where a routable basemap comes in: a map with the major transit road through a country (motorway and maybe primary). Depending on the size it may be a worldmap or a continentmap.

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[Maarten Deen]

1.5GB is still a bit more than what I was hoping for. But i think you can leave out the secondary roads. Have a look at OSM at zoomlevel 7.
Next step could be to eliminate nodes. If you have three nodes in a very small angle then you can eliminate the middle node without losing detail. To take it to extremes: you can eliminate nodes that are only used in one way and still have a fully routable map. The detail may be off (you might be 100's of meters off the road), but the closer you come to a junction (which is always at the start of the end of a way), the better you are on track.

If I compare this to the basemap in my handheld Garmin, it is not even correct on junctions. Junctions on major roads are sometimes 500 meter wrong.

But that is probably a different discussion (and certainly a different excercise).

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[Sabra Sharaya]

If the maps are that big with just the highways, maybe the user would be better off downloading the maps for each nation in the route. The enhanced world map might be bigger than all of the nation's maps together.

[Manfred]

Hi!

And most of it would be unused, because of being on the other side of the earth.

What about unsplitted road only maps?
Whole Germany, Italy, France,.......?

Regards
Manfred

[Maarten Deen]

Don't get hung up by the "world" part of my post, but a bit larger than one country would be nice. That way you can download just the one map and be done with it.

[Harry van der Wolf]

2013/5/3 Maarten Deen <maarte...@gmail.com>

1.5GB is still a bit more than what I was hoping for. But i think you can leave out the secondary roads. Have a look at OSM at zoomlevel 7.
Next step could be to eliminate nodes. If you have three nodes in a very small angle then you can eliminate the middle node without losing detail. To take it to extremes: you can eliminate nodes that are only used in one way and still have a fully routable map. The detail may be off (you might be 100's of meters off the road), but the closer you come to a junction (which is always at the start of the end of a way), the better you are on track.

If I compare this to the basemap in my handheld Garmin, it is not even correct on junctions. Junctions on major roads are sometimes 500 meter wrong.

But that is probably a different discussion (and certainly a different excercise).

 

Sorry, my mistake.

My first attempt was to also include residential and unclassified roads. That one would probably around 3GB. I stopped that one as it also needs loads and loads of memory.

The one which would include tertiary roads would be 1.5GB (That one crashed as well as as 2.5GB memeory was not enough)

The one which includes up to secondary road will hopefully be in the range of 600-700MB (I think as that one crashed as well and needed to be restarted).

 

On my 32bit linux system I can only address 2560MB to java as that's the limit. On another 32bit windows system java can only address up to 1.5GB as windows does a very stupid thing in how it handles memory, cutting of a left and right slice so to say.

So I need to use my 8GB 64bit Ubuntu system to create such big maps for which I have now dedicated 4GB memory to the java process (and the first run crashed as well, but due to some other error).

 

I will also think about a version without secondary roads.

 

Harry

[Maarten Deen]

I have created a map of Germany with only motorway, motorway_link, trunk and trunk_link. In obf format it is 14.5MB. But how do I use it in OSMAnd? I have copied it to my device (Galaxy Tab II) in the directory where all the other .obf files are (Maps/osmand), but it does not show up as a map.

Creating this file look less than an hour. One tip when you do this: use two physical diskdrives when possible. The osmconvert and osmfilter tools are very diskintensive which causes a big slowdown when you read and write from the same disk.

[Maarten Deen]

Ah, I probably had to really stop OSMAnd, now it works. I have maps for the Netherlands, Luxemburg and Austria loaded, so I tried a route to Vienna, Austria which took 5 minutes to calculate. Then I tried one to Clerveaux, Luxemburg which took about 1 minute and of course takes a large detour becuase I didn't have Belgium loaded.

See the screenshots. Basically it works. I got a message that I was out of memory and then the map went black.

[Harry van der Wolf]

Hi,

With regard to memory usage: See <https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!topic/osmand/bg7hYNEXYOc>

Harry

2013/5/5 Maarten Deen <maarte...@gmail.com>

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[hbogner]

Here it is:

#!/bin/bash
#

PLANET=$HOME/planet
O5M=$PLANET/o5m
PBF=$PLANET/pbf
OSMCONVERT=$HOME/bin/osmconvert32
OSMFILTER=$HOME/bin/osmfilter32

wget -c http://planet.openstreetmap.org/pbf/planet-latest.osm.pbf -O $PLANET/planet-latest.osm.pbf

$OSMCONVERT $PLANET/planet-latest.osm.pbf -o=$PLANET/planet-latest.o5m

$OSMFILTER $PLANET/planet-latest.o5m --keep="highway=" -o=$O5M/planet-highway.o5m
$OSMCONVERT $O5M/planet-highway.o5m --emulate-osmosis -o=$PBF/planet-highway.osm.pbf

$OSMFILTER $O5M/planet-highway.o5m --keep="highway=motorway*" -o=$O5M/planet-highway_motorway.o5m
$OSMCONVERT $O5M/planet-highway_motorway.o5m --emulate-osmosis -o=$PBF/planet-highway_motorway.osm.pbf

$OSMFILTER $O5M/planet-highway.o5m --keep="highway=trunk*" -o=$O5M/planet-highway_trunk.o5m
$OSMCONVERT $O5M/planet-highway_trunk.o5m --emulate-osmosis -o=$PBF/planet-highway_trunk.osm.pbf

$OSMFILTER $O5M/planet-highway.o5m --keep="highway=primary*" -o=$O5M/planet-highway_primary.o5m
$OSMCONVERT $O5M/planet-highway_primary.o5m --emulate-osmosis -o=$PBF/planet-highway_primary.osm.pbf

$OSMFILTER $O5M/planet-highway.o5m --keep="highway=secondary*" -o=$O5M/planet-highway_secondary.o5m
$OSMCONVERT $O5M/planet-highway_secondary.o5m --emulate-osmosis -o=$PBF/planet-highway_secondary.osm.pbf

$OSMFILTER $O5M/planet-highway.o5m --keep="highway=tertiary*" -o=$O5M/planet-highway_tertiary.o5m
$OSMCONVERT $O5M/planet-highway_tertiary.o5m --emulate-osmosis -o=$PBF/planet-highway_tertiary.osm.pbf

$OSMFILTER $O5M/planet-highway.o5m --keep="highway=residential" -o=$O5M/planet-highway_residential.o5m
$OSMCONVERT $O5M/planet-highway_residential.o5m --emulate-osmosis -o=$PBF/planet-highway_residential.osm.pbf

$OSMFILTER $O5M/planet-highway.o5m --keep="highway=unclassified" -o=$O5M/planet-highway_unclassified.o5m
$OSMCONVERT $O5M/planet-highway_unclassified.o5m --emulate-osmosis -o=$PBF/planet-highway_unclassified.osm.pbf

$OSMFILTER $O5M/planet-highway.o5m --keep="highway=pedestrian" -o=$O5M/planet-highway_pedestrian.o5m
$OSMCONVERT $O5M/planet-highway_pedestrian.o5m --emulate-osmosis -o=$PBF/planet-highway_pedestrian.osm.pbf

$OSMFILTER $O5M/planet-highway.o5m --keep="highway=service" -o=$O5M/planet-highway_service.o5m
$OSMCONVERT $O5M/planet-highway_service.o5m --emulate-osmosis -o=$PBF/planet-highway_service.osm.pbf

$OSMFILTER $O5M/planet-highway.o5m --keep="highway=track" -o=$O5M/planet-highway_track.o5m
$OSMCONVERT $O5M/planet-highway_track.o5m --emulate-osmosis -o=$PBF/planet-highway_track.osm.pbf

$OSMFILTER $O5M/planet-highway.o5m --keep="highway=footway" -o=$O5M/planet-highway_footway.o5m
$OSMCONVERT $O5M/planet-highway_footway.o5m --emulate-osmosis -o=$PBF/planet-highway_footway.osm.pbf

$OSMFILTER $O5M/planet-highway.o5m --keep="highway=path" -o=$O5M/planet-highway_path.o5m
$OSMCONVERT $O5M/planet-highway_path.o5m --emulate-osmosis -o=$PBF/planet-highway_path.osm.pbf

$OSMFILTER $O5M/planet-highway.o5m --keep="highway=cycleway" -o=$O5M/planet-highway_cycleway.o5m
$OSMCONVERT $O5M/planet-highway_cycleway.o5m --emulate-osmosis -o=$PBF/planet-highway_cycleway.osm.pbf

Old and rough, but works.

[Harry van der Wolf]

Thank you. It is more or less the way I used for the "major roads" maps I created last week.

Harry

2013/5/8 hbogner <hbo...@gmail.com>

[Maarten Deen]

I created a map of the Netherlands a week ago with only motorway*, trunk* and primary* and all non-essential nodes removed (so that you have a very coarse map), but it was a bit of a let-down since OSMAnd didn't want to calculate my 300 km route. Also not on the standard map for the Netherlands. It kept complaining about running out of memory. And then my Galaxy Tab stopped responding altogether, screen was lit but no response from anything.

It took me a while (after the cartrip was done) to figure out how I could reset it.

The map is small though, a few MB. I'll have to try again sometime. The algorithm for removing the nodes is quite dumb though, if you have a curved motorway where one of the two has a node halfway that can not be removed, I still remove the adjoining node from the other carriageway, possibly creating crossing ways.

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[Nico W]

The newest update 1.3.1 has a beautiful new world map with the major roads on it. Impressive.

[Victor Shcherb]

To Nico :

To be honest, I'm not aware of changes in world map. Probably you have many maps downloaded or I missed something when we update world map.

Victor

--

[Nico W]

Hi Victor, I just realized that I had  Cyclemap selected as an overlay. This map shows major roads. I was just writing another post when I realized that.

[Rodolfo]

Just want to thank the developer for the new world basemap. The extra 28MB contain a lot of useful extra info, so in practice, it is usable at higher zoom levels now. Fantastic!

Like mentioned in earlier posts, if someone could find a way to "connect the end of one motorway to the beginning of the next one, it could be used for rough long distance routing, but I guess this is  impossible without adding lots of smaller roads, which would increase the file size considerably. Maybe 6 routable continent basemaps?
But I'm very happy with the new map, thanks!

[V S]

It is possible to calculate "pseudo" route, which is actually how people calculate the routes :) But if you zoom you would see how much the roads are disjoint. In some areas (France, Brest) you see only small pieces of road. 

So I'm not sure if it usable at all for routing.

:)

Victor

среда, 25 сентября 2013 г., 11:47:38 UTC+2 пользователь Rodolfo написал:

[David White]

Le 26/09/2013 00:01, V S a écritО©╫:

It is possible to calculate "pseudo" route, which is actually how people calculate the routes :) But if you zoom you would see how much the roads are disjoint. In some areas (France, Brest) you see only small pieces of road.О©╫

So I'm not sure if it usable at all for routing.

:)

Victor

I also noticed the route was disjointed at certain zoom levels, then join up once you zoom in, check out North africa (Algeria, Tunisia for example). As far as Brittany (France) is concerned, this could be because all highways are not classed as motorways, but toll free trunk roads?

And +1 this new World base map is brilliant, 2 comments for it:
1. North Africa: at certain zoom levels, it is under water...
2. Nice to have: regional boundaries and region names which would be really useful to help choose which regions to download when preparing a journey across multimap countries (France, Germany, Italy, UK, etc.)

Best regards,

David

О©╫О©╫О©╫О©╫О©╫, 25 О©╫О©╫О©╫О©╫О©╫О©╫О©╫О©╫ 2013О©╫О©╫., 11:47:38 UTC+2 О©╫О©╫О©╫О©╫О©╫О©╫О©╫О©╫О©╫О©╫О©╫О©╫ Rodolfo О©╫О©╫О©╫О©╫О©╫О©╫О©╫:

Just want to thank the developer for the new world basemap. The extra 28MB contain a lot of useful extra info, so in practice, it is usable at higher zoom levels now. Fantastic!

Like mentioned in earlier posts, if someone could find a way to "connect the end of one motorway to the beginning of the next one, it could be used for rough long distance routing, but I guess this isО©╫ impossible without adding lots of smaller roads, which would increase the file size considerably. Maybe 6 routable continent basemaps?

But I'm very happy with the new map, thanks!

--

[Rodolfo]

@Victor: What do you mean by "pseudo route"? I noticed the gaps of course, but still it was tempting to try if the map was routable, but every A to B I tried, resulted in the error message  "starting point too far from nearest road". But maybe you mean something different?

@David: The region borders are present, zoom out to level 5 to see them. And the best thing is, if you zoom in to level 12, a button appears with the suggestion to download region xxxx. Just click it and Voila!  Very neat function!  See screenshots.

[David White]

@Rodolfo, this neat!!! However need to upgrade as currently in v5289D and it doesn't show

David

[Ab_fab]

Rodolpho,

"if you zoom in to level 12, a button appears with the suggestion to download region xxxx. Just click it and Voila!"

This feature was suggested yesterday on French osm mailing list [1], taking another app (MapsWithMe) as reference.

Glad to see it's already in place

[1] https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-fr/2013-September/063029.html

2013/9/26 Rodolfo <rodo...@gmail.com>

@Victor: What do you mean by "pseudo route"? I noticed the gaps of course, but still it was tempting to try if the map was routable, but every A to B I tried, resulted in the error message  "starting point too far from nearest road". But maybe you mean something different?

@David: The region borders are present, zoom out to level 5 to see them. And the best thing is, if you zoom in to level 12, a button appears with the suggestion to download region xxxx. Just click it and Voila!  Very neat function!  See screenshots.

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ab_fab
"Il n'y a pas de pas perdus", Nadja

[Andre]

That's amazing!  Suggested one day, and already working the day after! We should be very proud with such members in the team!

The new worldmap is amazing too! A rather small map with surprising high detail!  A master piece.

I have some small comments. This map is not searchable on place names.  That would make it fantastic,  but probably a lot bigger.  Maybe it is an idea to create the search index map separately for those wanting to be able to search.
I also noticed that the button option on level 12 is not visible in France and Germany in my case.  Probably because I have the address and major-roads maps of these countries.  That is necessary to find the place you are looking for, but once you found it there is no way to tell which full region map hss to be downloaded. That is - I suppose- because the app is searching the index for the word france, and finds hits. Or it searches geographical bounds and then finds 2 hits also. However,  just to be able to find a place first and then the suggestion to download a map is a good combination.

Is it also possible to show the button on level 10 and 11, and place it more to the top so it is not in the way? A lot of people would never zoom in so much, I am afraid, and then never notice this functionality.  That is a pity and will result in questions to the group.

Andre.oid

Op 26 sep. 2013 10:47 schreef "Ab_fab" <gamm...@gmail.com> het volgende:

[Harry van der Wolf]

2013/9/27 Andre <andreo...@gmail.com>

I also noticed that the button option on level 12 .......

 

Is it also possible to show the button on level 10 and 11, .....

 

Which button? I have the latest world map and the latest nightly build and I already like the new functionality but I don't see an option button. I know about the butoon but I thought it was not in yet.

I have already been searching the last few days, but now that you specifically mention it, I definitely know that I can't find it.

 

Harry

[Andre]

Well, I have 5354D. Go to a region or country  on the world map where you don't have ANY offline vector map. Somewhere in Africa maybe? Then zoom in to level 12. And the button floats on the map then.  Cool!

Andre.oid

Op 27 sep. 2013 12:48 schreef "Harry van der Wolf" <hvd...@gmail.com> het volgende:

--

[Andre]

If even an person like you can't find it, it should be a sign that there is room for improvement to make it a bit more intuitive and easier to find ;-)

Op 27 sep. 2013 12:48 schreef "Harry van der Wolf" <hvd...@gmail.com> het volgende:

--

[Rodolfo]

Please remember, this functionality is not yet published. Documentation usually comes after implementing a feature, but certainly, it needs to be in the wiki and in a help tip.

[Andre]

Yes,

You're right.  However,  don't underestimate Harry ;-) It is in all means no criticism on the documentation,  I understand it can't be there on this moment.  Some people are faster then light and find the functionality before it is even released !

Op 27 sep. 2013 13:04 schreef "Rodolfo" <rodo...@gmail.com> het volgende:

[Harry van der Wolf]

Please provide a print screen. I've looked in Africa, South-America and in Asia. Nowhere a button to be find. Not on any zoom level between 8-15.

Either I am entirely blind or something still might be buggy.

@Rodolpho: In the past weeks I helped building and recreating/restructuring the underlying polys for the new worldmap. I am aware of and with the functionality, also of the button, and I do see the green areas where you have a map and "clear" areas where you don't, but I don't see an option button. And as I didn't see it in the latest-night builds I thought that button was not yet implemented by Victor.

So please provide a print-screen to see whether my eyes are really getting that bad, or whether I need to file a bug ticket.

Harry

2013/9/27 Rodolfo <rodo...@gmail.com>

[Harry van der Wolf]

After all it is my own stupidity.

I immediately downloaded the new apk again (like I've done everyday the last week) and I now saw that it gets downloaded to another location as where I installed it from. I never took a look at the version number until I read Andre's mail mentioning the version number. I constantly re-installed the same (only slightly too) old build.

Sorry for bothering you with this.

(But on the other hand: Why is android not mentioning that you try to overwrite the same version? There can be a good reason, but a simple md5 or SHA1 or CRC check would suffice. After all: that's where the packing is for)

Harry

2013/9/27 Harry van der Wolf <hvd...@gmail.com>