compose route on PC

[fredf]

Since it is somewhat difficult to plan a route on the small screen of an android phone is there an app/program that I could use to develop the track/route on my PC and then transfer it to Osmand on the phone? The catch is that it should use voice commands and give street names. I know it can be done as RWGPS does it but I am looking for another option.

[Peter Elderson]

What exactly are you looking for?

What should use voice commands to do what, and give street names? Do you mean you will instruct the planner app/program with voice commands to make it give street names?

Peter Elderson

Op wo 10 mrt. 2021 om 19:50 schreef fredf <fel...@gmail.com>:

Since it is somewhat difficult to plan a route on the small screen of an android phone is there an app/program that I could use to develop the track/route on my PC and then transfer it to Osmand on the phone? The catch is that it should use voice commands and give street names. I know it can be done as RWGPS does it but I am looking for another option.

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[Fred Felter]

No, I mean that Osmand will guide me using voice with street names (instead of just "turn left in 100 feet") following the route/track I developed on my PC. I hope that is understandable.

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[Peter Elderson]

Ah.

OsmAnd has a toggle for streetnames in spoken instructions, in the navigation settings for a profile.

I don't know how accurate it is, you could try. I also don't know if it works when you follow a gpx-track instead of routing from A to B. If it doesn't, bad luck! Probably there are other bike navigation apps that can do that.

Sorry I can't be more help!

The other thing, developing a route, there are many programs for that. Why is the RWGPS option not good?

Peter Elderson

Op wo 10 mrt. 2021 om 21:02 schreef Fred Felter <fel...@gmail.com>:

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[Bart Eisenberg]

Typically, OsmAnd can follow a GPX created elsewhere, but doesn't give classic turn-by-turn directions using street names. 

This is my take on the subject: https://youtu.be/mMcw4kYmfPk

From one I've read on the forum, an exception may be BRouter.  But I've not used.  

[Poutnik Fornntp]

Brouter can generate GPX file specifically for OsmAnd with included junction/crossroad waypoints for navigation hints, so OSMAnd is able to provide them to user in the form of the way of turning.

But is does not use street names. It's navigation data in RD5 files do not even contain street names, AFAIK.

Dne 12. března 2021 1:03:51 Bart Eisenberg <bartei...@gmail.com> napsal:

[Bart Eisenberg]

@Poutnik. Just so I fully understand, with BRouter, you see each intersection where a turn is required.  And you see the direction of the turn.  But no street name.  Yes?

That would still be better than the usual non-OsmAnd GPX, which shows each turn of the road, whether it's an intersection or not.  Thanks!

[Harry van der Wolf]

You could also use routeconverter: https://www.routeconverter.com/home/

I use it regularly for creating "touristic routes" (but due to covid the last year not so much)

In that case you make a route consisting of a number of points and save it as a route gpx or as a waypoints gpx! Not as a track!

If Osmand reads such a waypoints gpx or route gpx, it will calculate the route itself based on the waypoints or routepoints. In that case you do get turn by turn instructions.

Op vr 12 mrt. 2021 om 18:42 schreef Bart Eisenberg <bartei...@gmail.com>:

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[Poutnik Fornntp]

Yes, you see it as pictograms and/or hear it as voice hints. No street names.

Well,not every intersection. Brouter involves its own logic, configurable by routing profile,  to decide, if it should bother you with a hint or not. Some consider it controversial, but IMHO it is mostly useful.

A rule of thumb is, if it is more surprising to go this way, it is more probable you get the hint. 

For detailed rules, see the term PriorityClassifier at https://github.com/poutnikl/Brouter-profiles/wiki/Glossary

----

On LocusMap, Brouter hints work also via Brouter API when Brouter acts as the local background navigation service ( in incoming LM4, Brouter is integrated directly in application ).

OSMand API doesn't unfortunately support BRouter navigation hints, so following of GPX generated by BRouter us the only option.

Dne 12. března 2021 18:42:06 Bart Eisenberg <bartei...@gmail.com> napsal:

[Bart Eisenberg]

Thanks to you both.  I'll give routeconverter a try.  

[Bart Eisenberg]

Re: RouteConverter.  Nice program, open source. I had the best luck exporting a GPX as a route (as opposed to points-only).  After I imported the GPX to OsmAnd and used it to navigate ("Follow track" in options), OsmAnd calculated its own route, but from my current position, not the beginning of the GPX.  I could then specify a new starting point by selecting it on the map.  Is that your experience too, or am I missing something?  

[Harry van der Wolf]

Op ma 15 mrt. 2021 om 18:43 schreef Bart Eisenberg <bartei...@gmail.com>:

Re: RouteConverter.  Nice program, open source. I had the best luck exporting a GPX as a route (as opposed to points-only).  After I imported the GPX to OsmAnd and used it to navigate ("Follow track" in options), OsmAnd calculated its own route, but from my current position, not the beginning of the GPX.  I could then specify a new starting point by selecting it on the map.  Is that your experience too, or am I missing something?  

Yes, that is correct and also my experience. It will start from your current position going to the end of the route, thereby sometimes completely not using the route.

This was discussed quite some time ago (2-3 years?), but never changed as far as I know.

So yes, I do the same. Of course this only happens when you are at home or so (and that's why they say "don't try this at home" ;) ).

When you are at the start of your hike, cycling tour or car tour, it works OK of course.

 

[Bart Eisenberg]

Thanks!  For anyone following this thread, this might be helpful. Additions and changes, welcome.   See also, RouteConverter's own documentation: 

When you create a route using RouteConverter (and, presumably, comparable services) , you are specifying a set of positions: start, stop, and optionally, one or more intermediate ones. RouteConverter will then use its own map and algorithm to specify a route that runs through these points.  

When you transfer that route to OsmAnd, OsmAnd will attempt to do the same thing using its own map and algorithm.  Which means the route on OsmAnd may differ from what you created on the PC. That's especially true if your route is less direct, more scenic.  To reduce possible discrepancies, place your interim positions not on intersections but between them.  That way, the routing algorithm will better "understand" the route you have in mind.  

On OsmAnd, the route will start from where you are, regardless of your starting point on the GPX.   But you can change that. See above. 

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[fredf]

Thanks for all the comments; now I understand the difficulty in using gpx data from a different app in Osmand and expecting identical results. I suppose the best solution would be a PC Osmand app using the same algorthms as the Android version.

[lodrog...@gmail.com]

with a very small experience as a rookie user, i have to say the follow

- let wa say that we spend a lot of time into a navigation system, small or big, powerful or light, no matter the operating system or the running application. The user with experience or not, draw after a lot of effort a route and at the end export this route as gpx file ....... "this is our choice"

after this action, we or someone else, MUST have the opportunity to import into his navigation system this gpx file and make "follow the route" at 100% . For me this is the logical action. It seems that other users or companies disagree with this action.

[Bob Gambrel]

It sure sounds nice to follow the route at 100%. What happens if the human trying to follow the route gets off the route as planned? What should the navigation software do?

Give up? Human made a mistake. If he can make it back to the route HE/SHE planned I will carry on.

Try to give human directions to get to the finish the easiest/shortest possible way?

Try to give the human directions to get to the start the easiest/shortest possible way?

Try to give the human directions to get to the route (anywhere) the shortest/easiest way?

For the last one, what if the easiest to get to is closer to the finish than the start and by doing so the human (who made the mistake in the first place) ends up bypassing a lot of the route he/she carefully planned?

There are probably other possible things the navigation tool can do.

As a newby to navigation software but a long time software developer, I can imagine the difficulties the nav software developers have in determining how to handle things. 

Just can't wait to get in my own self driving car and see how it handles these situations!

I use OSMAND+ and have been able to both frustrate me and satisfy me. The only real problem I have with it is forgetting to plan the route with all the right options and setting up the app correctly (for example, my planned route was for biking but I had it following an automobile profile, sighs)

If any OSMAND developers are listening to this thread: keep up the good work. You do not have an easy task. 

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[Tom Crocker]

I'm pretty sure my Garmin has the 'follow the planned route precisely' option, which is useful when it doesn't know about the paths. When you're off course it sends you back to the nearest part of the route as the crow flies (i.e. ignoring all ways), if I remember correctly. I think that's also what osmand does if you wander off across a field and aren't near any ways.

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[Xavier]

On Tue, Mar 23, 2021 at 08:14:54AM -0500, Bob Gambrel wrote:
>On Tue, Mar 23, 2021 at 7:13 AM lodrog...@gmail.com <lodrog...@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>> with a very small experience as a rookie user, i have to say the follow
>>
>> - let wa say that we spend a lot of time into a navigation system,
>> small or big, powerful or light, no matter the operating system or
>> the running application. The user with experience or not, draw
>> after a lot of effort a route and at the end export this route as

>> gpx file ....... "t*his is our choice*"
>>
>> after this action, we or someone else,* MUST* have the opportunity

>> to import into his navigation system this gpx file and make "follow
>> the route" at 100% . For me this is the logical action. It seems
>> that other users or companies disagree with this action.

>It sure sounds nice to follow the route at 100%. What happens if the
>human trying to follow the route gets off the route as planned? What
>should the navigation software do?
>
>Give up? Human made a mistake. If he can make it back to the route HE/SHE
>planned I will carry on.
>Try to give human directions to get to the finish the easiest/shortest
>possible way?
>Try to give the human directions to get to the start the easiest/shortest
>possible way?
>Try to give the human directions to get to the route (anywhere) the
>shortest/easiest way?

There is another possible option:

5) Try to return the human back to the exact point where they deviated
from the planned gpx route.

>For the last one, what if the easiest to get to is closer to the finish
>than the start and by doing so the human (who made the mistake in the first
>place) ends up bypassing a lot of the route he/she carefully planned?
>There are probably other possible things the navigation tool can do.

Yes, and this means that a different one of the five options will be
best in different senarios, and to different users. If the route was
merely meant to get to the destination, then your #2 is likely the best
choice. If the route was meant as a sight-seeing tour, then my option
#5 might be best, lest the human miss the sights along the route.

To satisify every possible use case, each time the human deviated from
the route, the navigator would have to ask which method it should use
to rejoin the route -- because the choice might be different each time
a deviation occurs. And asking "how do you want me to rejoin the
route" each time would, for many, quickly become very irritating.

One of the problems with trying to use gpx files for route sharing is
that this was never the intent of a gpx file, so it is a poor container
for the necessary data for storing a route that is intended to be
navigated in the future. GPX was meant to record where one had been
(i.e., record history), not instruct you how to get to a destination.
Yet gpx is generally the only data format that multiple different
navigation systems can commonly consume. So it has become the defacto
route sharing file format, even though that was never meant to be its
usecase.

[lodrog...@gmail.com]

this is how a navigate

i am using osmand for outdoor activities. Into the mountains the "roads" are very rare. That's why i believe that the app doesn't have to change anything. I must force the app to navigate me just like i design. Only the osmand has internal "by default" turn by turn navigation. Not the locus or orux.
Into the city .... i use sygic or here wego. I don't make any route plan at all. I let the app to navigate me.

[Xavier]

On Tue, Mar 23, 2021 at 06:53:46AM -0700, lodrog...@gmail.com wrote:
>this is how a navigate
>
>i am using osmand for outdoor activities.

It is useful to tell us these bits of info from the beginning.
Otherwise our assumptions will likely differ from your intent.

>Into the mountains the "roads" are very rare. That's why i believe
>that the app doesn't have to change anything. I must force the app to
>navigate me just like i design. Only the osmand has internal "by
>default" turn by turn navigation. Not the locus or orux.

What happens if you setup a custom profile, and for the route type
choose "Direct-point-to-point" as the routing type?

That route type sounds like it might just do what you want. And if it
does, then your issue all along has been using a profile that has
turn-by-turn enabled when you wanted something else from your routing.

[lodrog...@gmail.com]

When you transfer that route to OsmAnd, OsmAnd will attempt to do the same thing using its own map and algorithm.  Which means the route on OsmAnd may differ from what you created on the PC. That's especially true if your route is less direct, more scenic.  To reduce possible discrepancies, place your interim positions not on intersections but between them.  That way, the routing algorithm will better "understand" the route you have in mind.

this text can be found into previous user post. All i did is to say that i don't like this behaviour from the app (osmand), and i tried to analyse my opinion.

thanks

[Bart Eisenberg]

Just wondering: are OsmAnd's offline routing algorithms proprietary?  Or is there a web-based (PC)  route planning service that employs them as well using OSM data?  In other words, is there a functional equivalent out there?  

[Harry van der Wolf]

YesNo, it is not really a "proprietary" algorithm. Of course every developer implements it in his/her/their way.

It is the well-documented A* algorithm in bidirectional mode with Osmand's extensive priority and penalty extensions, but in an open-source application, so not really proprietary.

It could be copied by anyone (if you understand the code as it is pretty complex) and put inside another app or a java applet on a website.

But as far as I know it is not used anywhere on the web.

Harry

Op ma 5 apr. 2021 om 17:39 schreef Bart Eisenberg <bartei...@gmail.com>:

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[Bart Eisenberg]

Got it.  Thanks Harry.  On another thread, in a different context, on Github Discussions: someone pointed out that you can manually add an online routing engine (Graphhopper, et.al.) to a selected navigation profile. Which suggests one might be able to match that to a selected routing algorithm on RouteConverter. But of course, that would only work in the field with a cellular connection.  

I was wondering if you could flip this idea and match a web service to OsmAnd's default offline algorithm. But no.  

Bart